Psionik: You said earlier that you don't want to be deluded. That is a strong desire I have also. Just thought I'd mention that we have that in common.
Originally Posted by Psionik
I see brain as antenna for soul to be capable to control body, and to see(feel, hear) exactly what happens around it.
In addition to being an antenna, the brain also encodes very complex interrelationships. I don't think that for us there is structured thought without that. Demons think without having their own bodies, apparently, but I think they use ours, renting time in the subconscious part of our minds, so to speak.
Originally Posted by Psionik
Our soul has grown used to control it exactly... and every body has it own distinctiveness so no other soul can use it effectively.
As a thought experiment, suppose your soul didn't come back to your own body. What would that mean? It seems to me that I don't come back to my own body, that I'm not tied to my body. But the personal thoughts that are a part of the brain are a part of the body. So that experience stays with the same body. In other words, its not that the soul comes back to the body because of its affinity for that particular body, its that everything that seems to be attached to the body is actually the body. I guess I can't be certain there isn't some 'soul' information stored somewhere other than in the body, but this is how I experience it. This doesn't mean that 'I' die when my body dies though. There is interaction between my body and other bodies even while I live. Dying would be like losing one part of a hologram. Maybe it loses a little bit of fidelity, but all the important things I care about continue elsewhere.
Originally Posted by Psionik
Other thing is, I think that we used to be very material, too oriented on physical world.
I disagree with this I think. What people call 'spiritual' seems to me to be much the same has how I see the 'material' world. Thoughts have structure, memory, as does matter. There is freedom in thought, but there is freedom in matter also. Objects are only isolated and solid as an approximation, the physical world isn't really like that either.
My experience has also been that 'spiritual' people who are less attached to 'material' things are also generally as selfish and dishonest as people who are more sense-bound. To my taste, the world doesn't suffer from a lack of spirituality, it has another kind of problem. If people were more 'spiritual', they'd mostly use it for creating even more exotic ways to screw each other over. One sees this with money, as an example. Money is less 'material' than bartering, its an idea. Yet the more abstract people's dealings with money become, the better they become at using it to exploit other people from a distance. Religious understanding and magnetism is like that too. To use an analogy I've used before, if the world is like a prison, most 'spiritual' people are trying to find a way to bring the perks of their gangster outside life into the prison, or find a way of breaking out, instead of repenting from the kind of thinking that got them into prison to start with.
Originally Posted by Psionik
We tend to feel, that we need body even if it is unnecessary. Therefore our subconsciousness creates kind of vessel in astral too.
I think its worth remembering that what you experience as your body is not your body, its a mental representation of your body. When we manipulate that mental representation independently of what comes in through our senses we call that 'astral', but its still a mental model in both cases. I don't think its possible to understand this and view the 'astral' in the same way, it makes a huge difference.
Originally Posted by Psionik
I found, that my astral body is simpler, then physical one... and it grows more simple as observer state(and detachment) grows stronger. Eventually there is no visible body, and I can touch things in higher dimensions without it.
I rarely project a body at all when I dream. Half the time I don't even project a visual perspective. But its still all in my mind. I'm not saying that the physical world is in our minds, though that's a separate topic. I'm saying that a mental experience is a mental experience that is only indirectly related to the physical world, even though this is so habitual that most people don't recognize it.
Originally Posted by Psionik
One could polemize, I only don't see my higher body, but it is there. That is possibility I could take. And what about point like body(or sometimes small ball of energy) with spherical view of surrounding?
This seems to imply a different thought than mine of what a body is. You physical body is there on the bed. The 'astral' body, so far as I know, isn't anything, its sort of a ghost of the physical body. Almost by definition, if it has a location in space its a physical body. It doesn't make sense to imagine something having a form in space unless its interacting with other things in space in a way that's directly related to that form. It makes not sense to hypothesize the existence of an invisible body unless its doing that.
As I've mentioned previously, I think that the objectively paranormal aspects of our 'astral' are not directly related to the 'astral' experience. We get information about remote objects through some kind of non-local interaction, but I don't think we're doing that 'astrally', I think the astral experience is how we metaphorically represent that process to ourselves.
I had a dream once where I could see from many directions at once. This wasn't like having eyes in several places, it was more like a tactile feeling of presence, except seeing instead of feeling. This kind of thing makes no sense as a perspective from any kind of body. But I still think that the experience depends on the body that is lying there on the bed, just as all of my other experiences do. Even the experiences that seem to be in other people's minds depend on my body for memory, if I can think about them later in that context.
Originally Posted by Psionik
I understand and I see by myself how are thoughts changing higher reality. Sometimes I feel silly about my attempts to understand it. But at the same time I can't let it go and only accept it as it is. In physical dimension we need use body to express our soul. In higher dimension we use our mind (consciousness and subconsciousness)
As I experience it our 'astral' intuitions are reflections of the physical world, but also show aspects of how destiny flows from the present. There seem to be interactions with other physical worlds besides ours, but I haven't seen anything yet to make me think that there are 'higher' worlds besides that. It all seems like a vast machine of idea-like interactions to me.
Originally Posted by Psionik
Also for definition, I tend to see mind as soul(at least partially) and differentiate it to conscious and subconscious part. The bigger part is conscious the smaller remains subconscious. To be fully conscious(subconscious part turned into conscious) means to me that soul and mind are the same thing. Other people may see it different. I don't have problem with it.
My subconscious part is definitely a lot larger than the conscious part. I hope yours is too.
Originally Posted by Psionik
If animals have souls, it could be that unconscious part of their mind is overwhelmingly large. Their brains are not built to express nuances of soul expressions in such detailed way as human brain.
I'm pretty close to 100% certain that animals have souls in pretty much the same way that people have souls, even though we're a lot smarter than they are. I think the only people who believe that animals don't have souls are people who want to feel good about trapping or eating them.
Originally Posted by Psionik
I am not angry about your different believes nor I feel any animosity. This is forum. To discuss our thoughts, experiences... And I'm here also for other view, different opinions on what I subjectively understand. It can, but it doesn't need change my perspective... You have different approach, and therefore other set of experiences. Maybe my way is bad. But it is my own way. I built it myself, it became integrated to my life philosophy.
I think we have less personal ownership of the philosophies we seem to have developed than is often assumed. The muses that work through us work through a lot of other people also, and the conscious thoughts are only a very superficial summary. But I'm with you on thinking through things and experimenting instead of just regurgitating stuff from books.
I think that those of us who value not being deluded have to give up our life philosophies when the time comes, even though we've invested a lot in them. Usually we can salvage something important. In my case, I had to throw almost all the ideas away once or twice and start from scratch. And I'm still looking for a basic description of 'astral' that makes any sense to me.
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