Thread: Could astral projection really be lucid dreaming?

I've tried to astral project several times before I knew about ways to induce LDs. It seems to me that most of the methods people advise for astral projection and OBEs are the same as WILD and HILD. They all seem to say to lay supine and stay very still...some mention vibrations, some mention a heaviness coming over your body...these are all things I've heard as part of LD tequniques too.

I've also never succeeded in astral projection, but I've WILDed before. So...could the people who clame to be experts in OBEs and such really just be lucid dreaming? They want to have an OBE so much that they just go into the dreamscape and think they're astrally projecting?

This is just something that came to me and it could be right or wrong, but does anyone have any thoughts on it?

To simply answer your question: Yes

Many lucid dreams I have start out like a typical OBE. Actually not so much anymore, because since I have moved, my WILD begins with me in my old home (my old room). I can will the dream to begin in my current room so that it is like the traditional OBE. But from experience, if they are indeed separate from eachother, I have found them to be similar. I've had hyperawareness occur in lucid dreams, very euphoric lucids once in a blue moon, but nothing the brain isn't capable of...

But your question is more a spiritual question, or a question of what exactly our mind is, and if it exists separate of the physical brain. If it does, then are there separate non-physical realities which our mind can tap into and relay information back to our physical brain so that it may processed into our memory? Not to dissappoint you, but there is not a single person who can answer this solid evidence today.

basically, yes. Thus the whole..."split" on the issue.

Uh, no. To LD you have to believe you are dreaming, to AP you can believe it is real. Both have different chararistics. Can it be dreaming? yes. You don't call normal dreaming Lucid Dreaming. It could or could not be a different type of dreaming, but it is in no way Lucid Dreaming, you got to be kidding yourself if you believe they are the same thing and there is no evidence to even suggest AP is just LDing, not to mention things you make dissapear in AP, where as LD they don't. I've read some of AP and what makes it seem as if it's a dream is the Succubus. How does one of those know what the woman of your dreams looks like? it just glances over and somehow "knows"? it is something your sub con definatly would know.

Unless you rely on belief to categorize AP as something separate from LD, they are the same. There is nothing to stop you from believing AP is something more, but all signs point to them being the exact same thing.

There are definitely different types and intensities of lucid dreams. Some people claim that vivid, stable lucid dreams really transport your spirit to different planes of reality, while low level lucids still occur in your mind/ the dream plane. This never made sense to me, but enough people believe it that you have to recognize it as a belief system.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Unless you rely on belief to categorize AP as something separate from LD, they are the same. There is nothing to stop you from believing AP is something more, but all signs point to them being the exact same thing.

There are definitely different types and intensities of lucid dreams. Some people claim that vivid, stable lucid dreams really transport your spirit to different planes of reality, while low level lucids still occur in your mind/ the dream plane. This never made sense to me, but enough people believe it that you have to recognize it as a belief system.

Like i said, it can be a different type of dreaming.

Originally Posted by likeomgwtf

I've tried to astral project several times before I knew about ways to induce LDs. It seems to me that most of the methods people advise for astral projection and OBEs are the same as WILD and HILD. They all seem to say to lay supine and stay very still...some mention vibrations, some mention a heaviness coming over your body...these are all things I've heard as part of LD tequniques too.

I've also never succeeded in astral projection, but I've WILDed before. So...could the people who clame to be experts in OBEs and such really just be lucid dreaming? They want to have an OBE so much that they just go into the dreamscape and think they're astrally projecting?

This is just something that came to me and it could be right or wrong, but does anyone have any thoughts on it?

While it's true that astral projection/obe could be a form of lucid dreaming itself, there are a many recorded stories/cases in which real time events have been accurately perceived while the person was allegedly "projecting his astral body". These cases have not been scientifically studied...until now. There is a study going on which is being called AWARE (AWAreness during REsuscitation). The study is being conducted by a group of scientists who've seen/heard/read a myriad of testimonies about patients being out of body only to witness live events taking place...some of these stories too startling and highly questionable to easily dispute and categorize as a "lucid dream".

http://atwaterndenews.blogspot.com/2...ear-death.html

Originally Posted by Jeff777

While it's true that astral projection/obe could be a form of lucid dreaming itself, there are a many recorded stories/cases in which real time events have been accurately perceived while the person was allegedly "projecting his astral body". These cases have not been scientifically studied...until now. There is a study going on which is being called AWARE (AWAreness during REsuscitation). The study is being conducted by a group of scientists who've seen/heard/read a myriad of testimonies about patients being out of body only to witness live events taking place...some of these stories too startling and highly questionable to easily dispute and categorize as a "lucid dream".

http://atwaterndenews.blogspot.com/2...ear-death.html

Yeah.....heres one of mrs Atwaters books:-

"Beyond the Indigo Children" is the first major study of today's children, and their place in our rapidly changing world, that combines objective research with mystical revelation and prophecy.

In the book, Dr. Atwater illuminates the talents and weaknesses of these brilliant and irreverent kids born since around 1982. She explores the relationship of the new children to the prophecies in the Mayan calendar and other traditions, providing extensive background information about the seven root races, and the great shifting of consciousness already underway. She reveals the connection of the seven root races to the seven chakras, and how the fifth chakra – the chakra of will power - will refine itself in the human family as the new children grow to maturity. She also discusses the phenomenon of soaring intelligence and undeveloped potential, and provides concrete guidance and tools for those who seek to understand and help the new children achieve their full potential.

Not really someone I'd accept as a viable source of unbiased scientific research.

Originally Posted by moonshine

Yeah.....heres one of mrs Atwaters books:-




Not really someone I'd accept as a viable source of unbiased scientific research.

This is my fault. I've read many links on the study via GOOGLE and it was never my intent for you to take the link I posted above as THE link where the study was being done and who the study was being headed by. The content of the study is on that lady's blog but as to who the lady is...I don't know, I just know she has no part in the study whatsoever.

You can google the AWARE studies yourself and find more credible links.

http://www.impactednurse.com/?p=671

DV link where I first read about it some months back: http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=66063

It has been pretty much proven that people can still take in sensory input when they are asleep or near death. This is really only surprising in NDE cases, when the person seems to be brain dead, but is later found out to be aware of his surroundings. This is freaky, but really only puts into questions our definition of "brain dead."

The current study where they are looking into whether people actually float above their body is the interesting one. If they get a few credible accounts of what is hidden up on the ceiling, it will be truly hard to explain. I can't wait to see how it turns out in the next few years.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

The current study where they are looking into whether people actually float above their body is the interesting one. If they get a few credible accounts of what is hidden up on the ceiling, it will be truly hard to explain. I can't wait to see how it turns out in the next few years.

Neither can I. Think about all the religious implications that would ensue. I'm tracking this study closely and will keep this forum posted with the latest news.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

It has been pretty much proven that people can still take in sensory input when they are asleep or near death. This is really only surprising in NDE cases, when the person seems to be brain dead, but is later found out to be aware of his surroundings. This is freaky, but really only puts into questions our definition of "brain dead."

The current study where they are looking into whether people actually float above their body is the interesting one. If they get a few credible accounts of what is hidden up on the ceiling, it will be truly hard to explain. I can't wait to see how it turns out in the next few years.

The Aware Project is going to be pretty intresting indeed.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

While it's true that astral projection/obe could be a form of lucid dreaming itself, there are a many recorded stories/cases in which real time events have been accurately perceived while the person was allegedly "projecting his astral body".

There are just as many example of the same thing happening in normal dreams as well. Most notably dreams of loved ones dying when they actually do die at aprox the same time as the dream.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

There are just as many example of the same thing happening in normal dreams as well. Most notably dreams of loved ones dying when they actually do die at aprox the same time as the dream.

Or maybe alittle after they wake up the person they dreamed about dies. Which is WEIRD! Makes you think "wtf is this shit?".

Contrary to what most have said, no, AP and OBE isn't some kind of lucid dream, the techniques are equal to it, but it isn't lucid dreaming.

Originally Posted by Walms

Contrary to what most have said, no, AP and OBE isn't some kind of lucid dream, the techniques are equal to it, but it isn't lucid dreaming.

They have to be comparable to be the same, they are not comparable expieriences at all. It could be a different type of dreaming, but it's not lucid dreaming. Like you said, the techniques are similar but that means squat. If people actually took the time to study these things, they would see this rather then say they are the same because they use the same techniques. It's all about the expierience rather then the technique that got them there.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

They have to be comparable to be the same, they are not comparable expieriences at all. It could be a different type of dreaming, but it's not lucid dreaming. Like you said, the techniques are similar but that means squat. If people actually took the time to study these things, they would see this rather then say they are the same because they use the same techniques. It's all about the expierience rather then the technique that got them there.

Agreed

Originally Posted by User

Agreed

Thats it? Whats your reason.

As to it being "all about the experience," we all know that dreams
tend to deliver on expectations.

Originally Posted by moonshine

Thats it? Whats your reason.

As to it being "all about the experience," we all know that dreams
tend to deliver on expectations.

It's quite simple. You experience totally different things in both experiences. Differences that are so substantial that it's very hard to miss them. I've had a FA where I thought I was AP and it didn't feel anything like an OBE. I still felt my body on me bed just like a LD. Contrary to this, every-time I project out of my body, it happens in real time where I can see my surroundings but I can't interact with the environment like in waking life or a dream.

One time I had an OBE and I was watching what my family were watching on TV. Though I wanted to, I couldn't speak to them. I became annoyed and jumped back in my body to talk to them about the show. I know this is totally subjective, but for what it's worth, it does prove my point and why I agreed.