Thread: Shared Dreaming Experiment: Space Explorer and Waking Nomad

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

I'm surprised you havn't been banned yet, you're a complete waste of time to even have a debate with, always hostile and making smart ass comments. No, i am not going to find all your useless posts, as you say "it's a complete waste of time". Why don't you start putting some thought into what you say, you're a grown ass woman for crying out loud.



So you agree that because someone who is disabled and can't talk to loved ones can't SD's it's proven that it's impossible? i'm skeptic of SD but listen to what you're saying....

DreamQueen, is an intelligent, polite and decent member of the forum.
She has many friends here, and is always quick to give sensible advice to new members looking for it.
To come here and make attacks against someones personality, judged purely from a handful of posts, where someone is defending themselves against dirty debate tactics , criticism and is frustrated by a pig-headed inability for people to at least question their own beliefs, in light of a more reasonable explanation... is I think, completely justified.


And you still fail to see the glaringly obvious point about chronically disabled people...

It does not PROVE it is impossible, it proves that despite there being a group of people, who would do anything to communicate with the outside world, that if even those people, with such a compelling motivation, have not learnt to develop skills that would set them free... then that does make you wonder why they havn't does it not?

I know for one, that If i had been born with such a disability, trapped in my own mind, that some of the very first things I would consider would be attempts at telepahy, dream sharing etc.
And considering, you would be spending every second of each day, trapped with nothing but your mind... that it would give you ample time to investigate and hone your skills.

When you compare people like this with such huge motivations, to a bunch of new-age westerners, who just-so-happen to have stumbled across shared dreaming, telepathy or any other of these skills... it really does put things into perspective.

No, its not conclusive evidence, but it's a hell of a compelling question isn't it?

If people are willing to spend millions developing devices that can allow the disabled to move a mouse cursor on a PC, via advanced brain scanning technology.... then, why, if there is such an easy to "stumble upon", ability for minds to reach beyond the confines of their body... why wasn't that ability the first port of call in research?

If you have huge limitations in your life, you tend to try and find solutions to those limitations.

To assume that perfectly coherent, normal human beings, who just so happen to suffer from bodily paralysis do not share the intelligence or insight to discover telepathy or shared dreaming, when a bunch of able bodied people have stumbled upon it and consider themselves "experts"... is condescending and offensive to those disabled people.

And if they had discovered it, would they not be shouting it out to the world? so they could help relieve the suffering of others like themselves?

Such as how Daniel Kish, the blind man who has developed the skill to be able to use echo location to help navigate around the world, and now teaches the skill to other blind people.
Why is it that he a blind man discovered it, rather than those of us who are not blind? because he had the motivation due to his limitations.
As I said before, necessity is the mother of invention...
Daniel Kish, had the necessity to overcome his limitations,
the same can be said for those with bodily paralysis...
but there are no Daniel Kish types in the community of those with sever bodily paralysis, using telepathic or dream sharing skills.


And this video is amazing, what an amazing man doing such a wonderful thing with his life, changing lives... and doing so in a way that makes perfect sense...

Actually the whole Stephen Hawking as a shared dreamer isn't a bad point.

In fact the dreams of handicapped people would be a great place to start looking for evidence of shared dreaming. If one takes the time to actually look into it and not just assume it doesn't happen because they haven't heard of it happening personally.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Actually the whole Stephen Hawking as a shared dreamer isn't a bad point.

In fact the dreams of handicapped people would be a great place to start looking for evidence of shared dreaming. If one takes the time to actually look into it and not just assume it doesn't happen because they haven't heard of it happening personally.

If you havn't done so already, I'd really suggest watching the video in my last post. IF nothing else, it demonstrates the amazing power of human motivation and creativity to overcome limitations.

I just think, things like this put things in perspective.
It's very easy for us to see the world in a limited way... but if you push thoughts and concepts to the logical extremes, it does help to see the realities more clearly.

And yes I agree, it would be a great plce to start. I don't automatically assume it dosn't exist... i simply think that if it does, then like Daniel Kish, it will be those with strong motivations and needs, who make the discoverys.

And if it is lacking in those people, the question once again arises?
Why?
To which it seems to me, there can be only three possible answers:

1) no one has discovered it yet --- which makes you wonder how it is that able bodied people would discover it BEFORE those with such strong motivations - as people here are claiming.

2) it is too difficult, or unstable to be of any use to anyone

3) it simply dosn't exist.

The third answer, is the one that fits with current knowedge about physics, psychology, biology etc.

Dosn't make it right, but it does make it the answer that those, who weigh up the evidence before making conclusions, are more likely to sway to.
Dosn't mean we wouldn't change our minds, with compelling new evidence, just that it is the most plausable current answer based on the available evidence.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

DreamQueen, is an intelligent, polite and decent member of the forum.
She has many friends here, and is always quick to give sensible advice to new members looking for it.
To come here and make attacks against someones personality, judged purely from a handful of posts, where someone is defending themselves against dirty debate tactics , criticism and is frustrated by a pig-headed inability for people to at least question their own beliefs, in light of a more reasonable explanation... is I think, completely justified.

She's a troll, if you can't see it you need to open your eyes. I didn't attack her personality, i attacked her trollness in BD. People need to realize when you are on the internet, you are acting what your true personality is because you are behind a keyboard and able to get away with things you can't offline. I don't cry over words online, but it gets old when you see trolling all the time.

And you still fail to see the glaringly obvious point about chronically disabled people...

It does not PROVE it is impossible, it proves that despite there being a group of people, who would do anything to communicate with the outside world, that if even those people, with such a compelling motivation, have not learnt to develop skills that would set them free... then that does make you wonder why they havn't does it not?

You were just saying it was impossible yesterday. As for the question...not really, no. Even if they have done it, how would the other person or people know? it could be a normal dream for them, their dream journal could be nowhere, there would be alot of factors and if they really dream shared they would not care if we knew about it, they would only care that they can talk to their loved ones, or anyone. There are alot of things to consider, and this obviously can't be done on a whim.

When you compare people like this with such huge motivations, to a bunch of new-age westerners, who just-so-happen to have stumbled across shared dreaming, telepathy or any other of these skills... it really does put things into perspective.

I take what i read online with a grain of salt, but i wont rule it out because these people can't do it that we know of

No, its not conclusive evidence, but it's a hell of a compelling question isn't it?

It's a thinker, but it should not be given up if they were in that situation even if they have yet to see results.

If you have huge limitations in your life, you tend to try and find solutions to those limitations.

Depends on the person. I have a HUGE learning disability that was caught late, i have not done anything to improve it. Like i said, depends on the person.

To assume that perfectly coherent, normal human beings, who just so happen to suffer from bodily paralysis do not share the intelligence or insight to discover telepathy or shared dreaming, when a bunch of able bodied people have stumbled upon it and consider themselves "experts"... is condescending and offensive to those disabled people.

Like i said, take it with a grain of salt. it's online where everyone can play Liar and not have to be a Lawyer.

And if they had discovered it, would they not be shouting it out to the world? so they could help relieve the suffering of others like themselves?

Like i said, there is alot you have to consider. Even if they did it, it would not matter to them for anyone else. This is a selfish world, so aslong as they can do it to their loved ones that is all that would matter to them.


I normally don't like cutting posts up like these, but i just wanted to get the main things. I'll watch the video you linked and get back to you on it.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

She's a troll, if you can't see it you need to open your eyes. I didn't attack her personality, i attacked her trollness in BD. People need to realize when you are on the internet, you are acting what your true personality is because you are behind a keyboard and able to get away with things you can't offline. I don't cry over words online, but it gets old when you see trolling all the time.

You are attacking her personally.
And I disagree she is not a troll in any sense at all, she has her opinion, and she shares it.
That is what forums like this are for.

And I know DQ well enough, to know that she would act in exactly the same way, if faced by the same mindlessness in reality.

If some people have a lower BS tolerance than others, then good on them.
The world needs more people to not just be nodding yes men who are afraid to stand up to nonsense.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

And this video is amazing, what an amazing man doing such a wonderful thing with his life, changing lives... and doing so in a way that makes perfect sense...

Nice video, like you said, it shows what a person can do when they are motivated.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

You are attacking her personally.
And I disagree she is not a troll in any sense at all, she has her opinion, and she shares it.
That is what forums like this are for.

If some people have a lower BS tolerance than others, then good on them.
The world needs more people to not just be nodding yes men, who are afraid to stand up to nonsense.

She comes in here to laugh at people who don't have her POV, that is called trolling...Aslong as you come into threads with the intent of laughing at people's POV, or calling them names (she called me stupid by saying "At least a smart person does

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that way of thinking " )

But anyway i don't care, you are just making a big deal out of it. I'm done talking about a troll...and getting me to talk about her is just baiting her to come back, so enough.

Stay on topic.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Dosn't mean we wouldn't change our minds, with compelling new evidence, just that it is the most plausable current answer based on the available evidence.

Not everything is a clear cut logic problem. There are many other factors to consider.

Those people are already most likely hypersensitive about being differently-abled, and for the most part just want to fit in as best they can. Talking about paranormal experiences is not the best way to do that, because let me tell you, the reception is not very warm.

That blind guy is just lucky his "ability" has an easily understood explanation.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

She comes in here to laugh at people who don't have her POV, that is called trolling...Aslong as you come into threads with the intent of laughing at people's POV, or calling them names (she called me stupid by saying "At least a smart person does

Um... not actually true.

Firstly, I've made three posts in this thread (not counting this one) which is as many as you've made bagging me and calling me names.

Second, you say "she comes in here to laugh at people who don't have her POV". Actually if you read the first post I made in this thread (#10) you'll see I put in quite a bit of time to assist you in not wasting your time with an experimental design that was flawed. But there was absolutely no thanks for sharing some of the knowledge I gained during three years at university and trying to help stop you wasting your time on an experiment which would not prove anything. Instead you start calling me names and saying nasty things.


Regarding this post I made:

Originally Posted by DreamQueen

When someone who knows what they're talking about (ie someone with a university paper which covers Experimental Design) tells you that a journey you are about to embark on is going to lead nowhere, you listen. At least a smart person does

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that way of thinking

You have misinterpreted it in thinking I'm saying you personally are stupid. I am simply saying what happens in life is that when an expert gives advice, smart people take it. S/E is smart, hence he is taking the advice and not going to conduct an invalid experiment. The emoticon is there to emphasize that this is basic, logical thinking.

I mean, the concept is so simple it's ridiculous. If you were about to walk ten miles across a desert to collect water from an oasis and then someone arrived back from the oasis and said "There's no water there. It's dry." Would you still go? Of course not. It becomes a pointless exercise. Anyone who can't grasp that idea definitely deserves a emoticon - which I'm sure you don't.

Anyway, with the nasty way you've spoken about me, LF, I don't really feel I want to be here anyway so your mission is accomplished.

PS If you decide you want to apologize please PM me as I won't be back to this thread

Here comes the "i'm innocent" card, now i'm waiting for mods to clean this thread up.

I wont be saying sorry, no need for it.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Here comes the "i'm innocent" card, now i'm waiting for mods to clean this thread up.

I wont be saying sorry, no need for it.

You seem to be the one trolling here.
All you've done is come in, make character assasinations, and taken things off topic...

Back on topic people, were here to discuss, not mud sling.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

You seem to be the one trolling here.
All you've done is come in, make character assasinations, and taken things off topic...

Back on topic people, were here to discuss, not mud sling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

wikipedia is your friend, learn what you are talking about before you start typing. I didn't come in here being hostile, i came in here trying to understand why you decided to not even bother with this anymore, then you keep dragging this on and on. I was actually talking about other stuff, you just insist to keep dragging this on.


I'm done with you both.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Back on topic people, were here to discuss, not mud sling.

But this topic is dead. The experiment has been called off. It has been shot down. All it seems there is left to do is argue about who is at fault, which is a complete waste of time. This is too much arguing. And I participated! I argued as badly as anyone. I apologize to anyone I may have offended. :sorry: Since this thread has clearly been by these arguments I am going to unsubscribe so I don't let myself get pulled back in. If anyone has any serious comments (other than calling me stupid) go ahead an PM me.

I'm locking this thread, for obvious reasons.

Originally Posted by Raven Knight

But this topic is dead. The experiment has been called off. It has been shot down. All it seems there is left to do is argue about who is at fault, which is a complete waste of time. This is too much arguing. And I participated! I argued as badly as anyone. I apologize to anyone I may have offended. :sorry: Since this thread has clearly been by these arguments I am going to unsubscribe so I don't let myself get pulled back in. If anyone has any serious comments (other than calling me stupid) go ahead an PM me.

Yup yup.

Locked~

Spaceexplorer, DreamQueen, everyone in this thread,
Stop trolling. You don't have to come to BD if you disagree with their beliefs. It's in the rules at the top of the forum list. If you know you're just going to be addled and bothered by a thread, don't go in it. It's that simple.

EDIT: D'oh, RB got in before me