Alyzarin

Aly!! Big congratulations on #100! Glad it was a good one!

It's cool that you wound up in an indoor, high-walled paintball maze -- pretty much the ultimate phasing funhouse. I find it awesome and appropriate that to celebrate #100 you went on a fiesta of phasing.

I love how the tie-in between phasing and video game collision detection became even more explicit in this dream, complete with visual and sound effects. When that made you reminisce to your hacked Super Smash Brothers character that would fall through the floor, I was scared that the thought would make you start clipping through the floor. Aaaand now that I've said that, I need to never ever think of it again in case my brain is listening a little too closely and building up a little surprise for my next phasing attempt.

Anyway, it's great to see you stopping in for a visit! Keep getting lucid!

Thanks, Canis!

It was a nice coincidence, it helped give me some more perspective after all that discussion.

Oh man, it'd be intense to just suddenly slip through the floor! I'm glad that didn't happen, though I would deserve it for the things I've done to people with that code. XD Hehe, and it's too late now, once you've put it out there you can't take it back, your brain knows.

And thanks again, I'll certainly keep trying! =)

....

Final thought: this dream has made me start to wonder... are awareness and control inversely correlated?

Oh man, it'd be intense to just suddenly slip through the floor! I'm glad that didn't happen, though I would deserve it for the things I've done to people with that code. XD Hehe, and it's too late now, once you've put it out there you can't take it back, your brain knows.

LOL. Yes, I was afraid of that. Perhaps if I just command it a few times to not think of the pink elephant, it'll listen. I'm sure that'll work.

The idea of "sleep paralysis" was sort of that way for me. Never in my life do I recall actually experiencing true "sleep paralysis". But when I started learning about lucid dreaming, it seemed to be the thing that everyone loved talking about. Then in one of my fairly early lucids, I hit a slight movement hiccup when I was looking up at the sky. And what's my brain do? Put me flat on my back, locked into dream-simulated "SP". I actually had a partially successful in-dream OBE-style exit, but I was in way over my head, especially as such a newbie.

I also think that Xanous has picked up one or two of the more creepy/memorable demonic entities that he read about in OpheliaBlue's journal. Sometimes the brain seems to say, "Oh! I see that you're trying to forget X. Please stand by while I brand it into every spare neuron you've got."

Final thought: this dream has made me start to wonder... are awareness and control inversely correlated?

Heh, good thought. I'd actually describe what you experienced as a higher level of awareness. More of a meta-awareness, you know? If you are aware enough to analyze the set of schemata that you're operating under and then change or erase those schemata, that's the level of self-awareness and adaptability I think we'd all like for our LDs!

Something that's cool about what you did is that you didn't have to "cheat" and look away and sort of forget about the wall to make it go away. You actually just dissolved it from your dreamworld right when you were looking at it. Hmm. Makes me realize how many crutches I rely on to get this kind of work done. (Not that I have any shame about my crutches -- for now, I just want to walk, crutches or no!)

I promise I'm not trying to suck you back into a full DV return, but I've gotta point out how closely this relates to Task of the Month: "Basic Task ii - Erase a major element of the dream, such as a building or crowd of DCs." That kind of work is generally way easier (as you've pointed out) if there's some sort of visual interruption. You made the very good point that the hippocampus (where the "data model" of the dreamworld lives) is not a part of the visual cortex. That statement really opened my eyes as to why these visual crutches are such a help.

LOL. Yes, I was afraid of that. Perhaps if I just command it a few times to not think of the pink elephant, it'll listen. I'm sure that'll work.

The idea of "sleep paralysis" was sort of that way for me. Never in my life do I recall actually experiencing true "sleep paralysis". But when I started learning about lucid dreaming, it seemed to be the thing that everyone loved talking about. Then in one of my fairly early lucids, I hit a slight movement hiccup when I was looking up at the sky. And what's my brain do? Put me flat on my back, locked into dream-simulated "SP". I actually had a partially successful in-dream OBE-style exit, but I was in way over my head, especially as such a newbie.

I also think that Xanous has picked up one or two of the more creepy/memorable demonic entities that he read about in OpheliaBlue's journal. Sometimes the brain seems to say, "Oh! I see that you're trying to forget X. Please stand by while I brand it into every spare neuron you've got."

I look forward to reading the dream journal entry that comes out of this. I wonder what you'll see as you fall through the ground?

Speaking from personal experience, I don't think you're missing too much when it comes to sleep paralysis. I get it every now and then and it's usually confusing or frightening and uncomfortable, and the hallucinations are generally more like mild distortions or shadow figures. One time I was fairly lucid though and there was a demon standing at the end of my bed staring at me when I woke up, and I reached out a phantom hand for him to grab, but he just stared at me until he vanished and I was fully awake. What a jip lol. That's pretty crazy with the in-dream OBE, though! Have you had anything like that happen since?

And oh, the sex demon? Or have more shown up since then? I'm pretty sure I remember at least another one coming into play at some point, but it's been a while since I've read Ophelia's DJ. X3

Heh, good thought. I'd actually describe what you experienced as a higher level of awareness. More of a meta-awareness, you know? If you are aware enough to analyze the set of schemata that you're operating under and then change or erase those schemata, that's the level of self-awareness and adaptability I think we'd all like for our LDs!

Something that's cool about what you did is that you didn't have to "cheat" and look away and sort of forget about the wall to make it go away. You actually just dissolved it from your dreamworld right when you were looking at it. Hmm. Makes me realize how many crutches I rely on to get this kind of work done. (Not that I have any shame about my crutches -- for now, I just want to walk, crutches or no!)

I promise I'm not trying to suck you back into a full DV return, but I've gotta point out how closely this relates to Task of the Month: "Basic Task ii - Erase a major element of the dream, such as a building or crowd of DCs." That kind of work is generally way easier (as you've pointed out) if there's some sort of visual interruption. You made the very good point that the hippocampus (where the "data model" of the dreamworld lives) is not a part of the visual cortex. That statement really opened my eyes as to why these visual crutches are such a help.

I can see that, I guess it really depends on how you define it. And when you put it like that, it really makes me appreciate just what my lucid state of mind is like... because it pretty much is just like that, where I can change specific things easily. The best way I can think to easily describe it would be in comparison to some kind of 3D modeler where you've already got the whole environment put together and whenever you click on any specific object it highlights it and gives you all the information on it and options for what to do with it, and I just have my whole mind as the database to draw from. A good example is this lucid I had a while back where I was in my house and this old round table we used to have was in my living room. I went over to it and picked it up by the edge of the table and threw it like a frisbee. As I was doing that, of course there was no visible highlighting or anything but it felt like my mind locked on to the concept of that object being a table, but when I used it as a frisbee instead I felt it shift to that in my data model, as you nicely put it. This change was very distinct and clear and required no sensory update to be felt. Then, as the table was flying through the air, it became a frisbee right before my eyes. That's part of where I got what I said about just continuing to act like whatever you feel to be happening is happening, even if you your senses haven't caught up to it yet. Walking through the wall felt the same way... I locked on to it and then deleted it from the map, so even still seeing the wall in front of me had no impact on whether or not I could move through that space unimpeded, and of course it fell apart as I fully passed through it. It applies to most of lucids lately, really, especially that one I told you about with the DC that updated whenever they walked behind the other DC in my line of sight.

I wouldn't worry about using crutches too much, we've all used them here. And I'm sure I'm still using plenty of them that I haven't even thought of yet. But I do think that when you can get a hang of everything I've been saying here you won't need to rely on them in these particular situations nearly as much. Being able to really perceive in the moment the fact that my mind is where the entire dream world is situated and the visuals are just there for my convenience has probably been my biggest step in getting to the level of control I have now. But that leads me back to the awareness vs control thing.... Maybe that's not the best way to phrase it, but the concept still grabs me. I've been thinking specifically about the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, the part of the PFC which is normally deactivated during REM but often linked to lucidity. I've always kind of assumed that this is because the amygdala is hyperactive during dreams, and the amygdala shuts down that part of the prefrontal cortex just like in an amygdala hijack (such as in an adrenaline rush). The dorsolateral PFC is implicated in some complex thought processes such as decision-making and attentional processes, and I've read that part of its function is to communicate with the hippocampus and integrate memories and mnemonic and sensory data. It would seem to correlate to me with the increase in vividness and detail in the average lucid especially when you become so by noticing something about the dream. And I'm wondering if this plays a significant role in why inspecting something in a dream causes it to become more and more complex, because the DPFC is using memories that we've stored to build upon the information coming from the hippocampus in realistic ways. The reason I thought of this as being opposite to control is because, unlike the schema which are directly controllable based on our working memory, this would be drawing from stored memory and would be more of a solid set of rules than something that we can easily change. And that correlates to how I felt about the wall.... In this dream, when I felt aware of the solidity of the wall, I felt weakened. I could tell that as long as I stayed focused on the wall it would be using rules that I couldn't bend, at least not easily! And that makes perfect sense with everything I've been saying, but perhaps due to all of that recapping I was particularly conscious of it this time. It showed me that my only real method of control around this was to drop my awareness of the wall as a realistic object and force my brain to stop making rules for it, so really this awareness is more like a method of forfeiting control, which could certainly be useful once you've already got your schema set up however you want them to be.... Thinking back on many lucids now has made me realize that often what I try to do while lucid is be as little "aware" as possible, essentially only enough to remember that I can do anything that I want. When I simply do without thinking it all in a lucid, just having faith that I'll make the decisions I would want to anyway, everything tends to work out very easily. It makes me wonder just how much the DPFC is actually involved in being lucid, as opposed to just being a convenient road to becoming lucid....

Anyway, that's interesting about the Task of the Month! I'll have to try to remember that the next time I'm in a lucid, that doesn't seem all too challenging.

I look forward to reading the dream journal entry that comes out of this. I wonder what you'll see as you fall through the ground?

LOL. You just know my brain is now laying down an "Alyzarin is going to be disappointed if you don't go plummeting through the Earth" schema. I'm so doomed!!

If I'm a truly Zen lucid ninja, I'd imagine myself clipping through the Earth all the way to Antarctica, touching the South Pole, then clipping back through the Earth to the North Pole for Task of the Year.

Speaking from personal experience, I don't think you're missing too much when it comes to sleep paralysis. I get it every now and then and it's usually confusing or frightening and uncomfortable, and the hallucinations are generally more like mild distortions or shadow figures. One time I was fairly lucid though and there was a demon standing at the end of my bed staring at me when I woke up, and I reached out a phantom hand for him to grab, but he just stared at me until he vanished and I was fully awake. What a jip lol. That's pretty crazy with the in-dream OBE, though! Have you had anything like that happen since?

Ha! I like the ballsiness of reaching out a hand to the demon and giving him the ol' "Are you just going to sit there all frightening and demonic or are you gonna help me out here?" :-)

This was my first and only SP-like experience, in dream or out. I managed to peel out a new set of arms but the dream collapsed just after I peeled a new head and torso out from their paralyzed counterparts.

And oh, the sex demon? Or have more shown up since then? I'm pretty sure I remember at least another one coming into play at some point, but it's been a while since I've read Ophelia's DJ. X3

Ha ha! No, but that would be funny. She had a demon similar to the girl from The Ring pop up, and the image infected one of Xanous' dreams a couple of nights later. :-)

Ophelia actually dispatched that other "DEILD demon" permanently, it seems! On their last encounter, she didn't fight with him but just imagined him growing weaker and weaker until he was just... gone. Really cool, and very much fits with my philosophy on dream control (specifically, that the dreamer is the source of all energy in the dream, and has the ability to starve any entity in the dream.) This is the one: WILDs on My Back - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I can see that, I guess it really depends on how you define it. And when you put it like that, it really makes me appreciate just what my lucid state of mind is like... because it pretty much is just like that, where I can change specific things easily. The best way I can think to easily describe it would be in comparison to some kind of 3D modeler where you've already got the whole environment put together and whenever you click on any specific object it highlights it and gives you all the information on it and options for what to do with it, and I just have my whole mind as the database to draw from.

Great example, and man a 3D modeling analogy? Nothing could be better suited for my brain and sensibilities. Even though I haven't yet done what you're talking about here, it makes a ton of sense to me. I think that half the battle is giving your brain an easy way to buy into new, mind-expanding ideas of what's possible in a dream. Analogies like this are great for greasing the skids IMO. It may not even matter that I'm so hopeless in 3D modeling tools. :-)

But that leads me back to the awareness vs control thing.... Maybe that's not the best way to phrase it, but the concept still grabs me. I've been thinking specifically about the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, the part of the PFC which is normally deactivated during REM but often linked to lucidity. I've always kind of assumed that this is because the amygdala is hyperactive during dreams, and the amygdala shuts down that part of the prefrontal cortex just like in an amygdala hijack (such as in an adrenaline rush). The dorsolateral PFC is implicated in some complex thought processes such as decision-making and attentional processes, and I've read that part of its function is to communicate with the hippocampus and integrate memories and mnemonic and sensory data. It would seem to correlate to me with the increase in vividness and detail in the average lucid especially when you become so by noticing something about the dream. And I'm wondering if this plays a significant role in why inspecting something in a dream causes it to become more and more complex, because the DPFC is using memories that we've stored to build upon the information coming from the hippocampus in realistic ways. The reason I thought of this as being opposite to control is because, unlike the schema which are directly controllable based on our working memory, this would be drawing from stored memory and would be more of a solid set of rules than something that we can easily change. And that correlates to how I felt about the wall.

Okay, you've totally sold me. Great observation on the role of lucidity in dream vividness, in particular the reason that (from my experience) if you expect to see an arbitrary level of detail, your mind will produce this detail for you. In fact, I love this whole line of discussion. I hope that this is something you've been thinking about for a while and didn't just come up with off the cuff. Because otherwise I will feel very dull-witted and slow. :-D

As a side note, it makes me wonder what would happen if I were to attempt to examine an object to an arbitrary level of detail in a non-lucid. Would the detail fail to materialize? Or would the DPFC be "activated" by this habit? Is this part of what makes awareness practice so effective?

Now I really get what you mean about awareness being inversely correlated with control. If "awareness" means being aware that you're dreaming and that everything you see is a part of your internal mental landscape, then obviously that's something we want. But when "awareness" means being really, really aware that that thing is a wall, dream control becomes an uphill battle.

Here's a possibl example from my first galantamine dream. I had a very high level of awareness of my surroundings, and even my shadow. I remember staring at it on the floor and noticing that it was extraordinarily detailed and would realistically "shadow" my movements in the dream. This actually killed all of my behind-the-back conjurings, something I am usually able to do with great reliability. I attempted to reach behind my back to produce a portal gun, but because I watched my shadow NOT produce anything, I didn't buy it. Came up totally empty-handed!

So perhaps the real dream control killer is having too high awareness of dream objects and all of the schematic baggage they carry with them.

Thinking back on many lucids now has made me realize that often what I try to do while lucid is be as little "aware" as possible, essentially only enough to remember that I can do anything that I want. When I simply do without thinking it all in a lucid, just having faith that I'll make the decisions I would want to anyway, everything tends to work out very easily. It makes me wonder just how much the DPFC is actually involved in being lucid, as opposed to just being a convenient road to becoming lucid....

Very interesting idea! I also wonder about maintaining lucidity. Without a little elbow grease, it is easy for lucidity to slip away. Who's going offline when that happens? Is this the DPFC packing it in? Pondering this, I get dangerously close to questions which I am embarrassed to be unable to answer completely. Such as "What's really going on in the brain when we're lucid?"

Anyway, that's interesting about the Task of the Month! I'll have to try to remember that the next time I'm in a lucid, that doesn't seem all too challenging.

Have you been adorned with TotM wings before? Your LD kung-fu is plenty strong to pick up a pair any month you chose!

And dude! DJ comments have a four-smiley limit? I can burn through that in like one sentence. :-)

LOL. You just know my brain is now laying down an "Alyzarin is going to be disappointed if you don't go plummeting through the Earth" schema. I'm so doomed!!

If I'm a truly Zen lucid ninja, I'd imagine myself clipping through the Earth all the way to Antarctica, touching the South Pole, then clipping back through the Earth to the North Pole for Task of the Year.

Muhahaha, just as I'd hoped! Programming brains is fun. =D

If you can do all that, I'll be truly impressed. Just visualize it well beforehand and your chances will improve!

Ha! I like the ballsiness of reaching out a hand to the demon and giving him the ol' "Are you just going to sit there all frightening and demonic or are you gonna help me out here?" :-)

This was my first and only SP-like experience, in dream or out. I managed to peel out a new set of arms but the dream collapsed just after I peeled a new head and torso out from their paralyzed counterparts.

Hehe, demons aren't so scary when you get to know them. I was actually hanging out with that particular one in a dream earlier in the night, along with another who (if I remember correctly) had a cannon in his chest. We were causing mayhem at my old senior high school for fun.

And gotcha, gotcha. Well I'm sure you'll have more to speak of one day. =)

Ha ha! No, but that would be funny. She had a demon similar to the girl from The Ring pop up, and the image infected one of Xanous' dreams a couple of nights later. :-)

Ophelia actually dispatched that other "DEILD demon" permanently, it seems! On their last encounter, she didn't fight with him but just imagined him growing weaker and weaker until he was just... gone. Really cool, and very much fits with my philosophy on dream control (specifically, that the dreamer is the source of all energy in the dream, and has the ability to starve any entity in the dream.) This is the one: WILDs on My Back - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Oh, nice! That's pretty cool then, I remember her having a lot of trouble with him. But it's interesting that she just has more demons showing up, I've told her before that she should just give in and accept that she's just a demon inside.

And of course, it wouldn't be an Ophelia dream if it didn't end with gender bender sex. XD

Great example, and man a 3D modeling analogy? Nothing could be better suited for my brain and sensibilities. Even though I haven't yet done what you're talking about here, it makes a ton of sense to me. I think that half the battle is giving your brain an easy way to buy into new, mind-expanding ideas of what's possible in a dream. Analogies like this are great for greasing the skids IMO. It may not even matter that I'm so hopeless in 3D modeling tools. :-)

Definitely agree with this. ^_^ I think the more you can really grasp what's going on during a dream the easier it's going to be to control, so I try to come up with as many metaphors as possible for it. But I just kind of think like that all the time too, things are just easier when you can compare them to something you already know. I'm glad this one works for you. :3

Okay, you've totally sold me. Great observation on the role of lucidity in dream vividness, in particular the reason that (from my experience) if you expect to see an arbitrary level of detail, your mind will produce this detail for you. In fact, I love this whole line of discussion. I hope that this is something you've been thinking about for a while and didn't just come up with off the cuff. Because otherwise I will feel very dull-witted and slow. :-D
...(yup, don't know if you hit this but there's definitely a DJ comment size limit too lol)...
So perhaps the real dream control killer is having too high awareness of dream objects and all of the schematic baggage they carry with them.

Hahaha, don't worry, I've been thinking about these things for a while now. =P Constant generation of hallucinations is one of my favorite topics of discussion, as it applies to drugs as well as dreams; the deeper you look, the deeper it gets. The fractal imagery of psychedelics thrives on this (as well it should, by all logic). Psychedelics also cause the prefrontal cortex (in general) to become hyperactive, and it's not uncommon for them to create experiences akin to NDEs where scenes of your life flash by in a fully-rendered fashion, and are often vividly re-experienced. Maybe the DPFC being so active beyond normal levels that it can reconstruct entire scenes based on your state of mind? For example, I once was trip sitting for a friend of mine who was on mushrooms for his first time, and I watched as he vividly relived - and hilariously acted out - different "firsts" in his life from the point of view of others who were there at the time. This includes other drug firsts that I witnessed and was able to predict his actions from because I remembered how they played out, as well as the first time he had sex... from the girl's perspective. It definitely ties together how I see it.

As for what is happening in the brain during a non-lucid, it's hard to say exactly. I do know for a fact that dreams can be extremely vivid and even entirely lifelike without lucidity being required. However, I'd be willing to bet that those dreams do still have a good amount of DPFC activity, and the mind is just not paying enough attention to the right details - or just not even being shown enough unrealistic things - to notice what's going on. But one thing I can say for sure is that focus breeds stability, whether or not you know that you're in a dream. And I do believe that that's why awareness training is so useful, because the more likely you are to pay attention to your surroundings the more likely it is that your brain will become active in this way in a dream. I mean, that's really the whole idea behind it.... When you're non-lucid and not trained against it, you never really stop to consider what's going on at all. All being lucid is is paying attention.

That's pretty interesting about your shadow, I can't recall ever having one appear in a dream. But that's exactly what I'm getting at, if you're trying to bend rules that you're closely observing you're going to have a pretty tough time. But I'd like to point out too that even within this things are still separated into their own categories. I used to use that behind-the-back summoning a lot too, and in one of the most vivid and stable lucids I ever had where I just inspected things closely the whole time I was still able to do it perfectly... because what I was observing (a forest environment) had absolutely nothing to do with what I was trying to achieve (finding a water bottle on the ground behind me). When there are no conflicting rules, it still comes down to selective attention.

Isn't the brain great?

Oh, and one last thing on that note.... While I do feel that the more you let this awareness build the more control you give up, I do think that these dreams are also more likely to be the most rewarding. I'm sure you understand this too, but just because you can be totally in control doesn't necessarily mean you always should be, at least not if you really want to explore your mind. The more aware you are of your dream surroundings, the more active your brain is going to be, and that's when you see the REAL power of your mind. And just because you're not omnipotent doesn't mean you're totally powerless, you can still figure out how to work with the rules of the dream if you know what you're doing. Personally, I've always thought it would be wonderful to just be someone who wanders aimlessly through the dream world just dealing with whatever comes my way. I think it's when you let your subconscious mind do the work, instead of just having your own little playground to run around in, that you see the things that are truly amazing. The problem is just remembering that while I'm lucid. X)

Very interesting idea! I also wonder about maintaining lucidity. Without a little elbow grease, it is easy for lucidity to slip away. Who's going offline when that happens? Is this the DPFC packing it in? Pondering this, I get dangerously close to questions which I am embarrassed to be unable to answer completely. Such as "What's really going on in the brain when we're lucid?"

Well, I don't think you're honestly too far behind the professional researchers in that respect, hehe. No one knows exactly what's going on when we're lucid, especially when it comes to gaining and losing lucidity. But I would be willing to bet that the DPFC at least can be involved in losing it as well, because the only times I've ever experienced it smoothly happening were when I stopped really focusing on doing anything and just sank back into the dream nonsense, but even those times it came back to me at the last second. But who's to say, really? Hopefully we'll have more answers in this respect one day. =)

Have you been adorned with TotM wings before? Your LD kung-fu is plenty strong to pick up a pair any month you chose!

I've had them before, but I can't recall what for. I also once had them due to a glitch or something, but it was at the end of the month so they just left them there anyway until they reset on their own lol. I do like the concept of them, I just don't really think of them much on my own. But I'll bet if I started getting them really easily I would get addicted. =P

And dude! DJ comments have a four-smiley limit? I can burn through that in like one sentence. :-)

Tell me about it. >w< They really should increase that limit, I've been dealing with this for too long!

Definitely agree with this. ^_^ I think the more you can really grasp what's going on during a dream the easier it's going to be to control, so I try to come up with as many metaphors as possible for it. But I just kind of think like that all the time too, things are just easier when you can compare them to something you already know. I'm glad this one works for you. :3

That's right. The brain is a powerful engine for making and maintaining associations. Everything is easier to remember and master if you've got some other concept you can join it with in some way. In the brain, no idea is an island.

It's the same deal whether you're trying to remember something for yourself, explain a new system to someone, or persuade a person about something -- tying the "lesson" into existing concepts make it stick so much more strongly.

...(yup, don't know if you hit this but there's definitely a DJ comment size limit too lol)...

LOL. Yes, I'm afraid that we are probing the outer limits of what DreamViews is capable of. I am saddened and disillusioned to learn that we live in a world of PM size limits, DJ comment size limits, and the cruel, barbaric four-smiley limit. (Let's not even start on the roughly 30-character Visitor Message size limit. )

Hahaha, don't worry, I've been thinking about these things for a while now. =P Constant generation of hallucinations is one of my favorite topics of discussion, as it applies to drugs as well as dreams; the deeper you look, the deeper it gets. The fractal imagery of psychedelics thrives on this (as well it should, by all logic). Psychedelics also cause the prefrontal cortex (in general) to become hyperactive, and it's not uncommon for them to create experiences akin to NDEs where scenes of your life flash by in a fully-rendered fashion, and are often vividly re-experienced. Maybe the DPFC being so active beyond normal levels that it can reconstruct entire scenes based on your state of mind? For example, I once was trip sitting for a friend of mine who was on mushrooms for his first time, and I watched as he vividly relived - and hilariously acted out - different "firsts" in his life from the point of view of others who were there at the time. This includes other drug firsts that I witnessed and was able to predict his actions from because I remembered how they played out, as well as the first time he had sex... from the girl's perspective. It definitely ties together how I see it.

Oh, the reference to fractals is so cool. That sort of infinitely recursive imagery sounds exactly like the kind of brain hardware that could generate arbitrary, convincing levels of detail. And of course everything that you see looks realistic -- it looks exactly as you remember it looking!

Since the PFC has such an important role to play in acting as the "seat of judgment", I wonder what happens to this bit of brain functionality when exposed to psychedelics. Since they're causing PFC hyperactivity, is this what sometimes causes paranoia to arise when someone's on psychedelics?

And wow, from the girl's perspective? That is too funny!

As for what is happening in the brain during a non-lucid, it's hard to say exactly. I do know for a fact that dreams can be extremely vivid and even entirely lifelike without lucidity being required. However, I'd be willing to bet that those dreams do still have a good amount of DPFC activity, and the mind is just not paying enough attention to the right details - or just not even being shown enough unrealistic things - to notice what's going on. But one thing I can say for sure is that focus breeds stability, whether or not you know that you're in a dream. And I do believe that that's why awareness training is so useful, because the more likely you are to pay attention to your surroundings the more likely it is that your brain will become active in this way in a dream. I mean, that's really the whole idea behind it.... When you're non-lucid and not trained against it, you never really stop to consider what's going on at all. All being lucid is is paying attention.

Yes, agreed all the way around. It seems that during NLDs the DPFC is just in a very subdued state. Even though normally I do a lot of pretty dumb stuff in NLDs, I'm usually at least somewhat attuned to right vs. wrong and in some cases even somewhat resistant to temptations (although far less than IWL.) So the PFC seems to be doing something.

I'd love to know what happens in that moment where it seems to just catch fire, almost as if you've reached such a critical mass of awareness that it becomes self-sustaining. Yes, you have to take steps to keep the fire burning, but that's a much smaller hurdle to clear than actually becoming lucid.

"Focus breeds stability". How true that is! That's a nice, unified explanation for why you can stabilize a scene by taking a close look at your hands, rubbing them together, etc. or simply be a high-enough level LDer that you naturally sink your claws into the dreamworld and keep yourself pinned in there with focus, no longer needing to stabilize.

That's pretty interesting about your shadow, I can't recall ever having one appear in a dream. But that's exactly what I'm getting at, if you're trying to bend rules that you're closely observing you're going to have a pretty tough time. But I'd like to point out too that even within this things are still separated into their own categories. I used to use that behind-the-back summoning a lot too, and in one of the most vivid and stable lucids I ever had where I just inspected things closely the whole time I was still able to do it perfectly... because what I was observing (a forest environment) had absolutely nothing to do with what I was trying to achieve (finding a water bottle on the ground behind me). When there are no conflicting rules, it still comes down to selective attention.

That's right. If I had focused on the opposite wall (or virtually any other part of the scene besides the shadow or my conjuring hands), I wouldn't have had that tangle of schemata standing between me and the portal gun I wanted.

And yes, the brain is indeed awesome! Love it!

Personally, I've always thought it would be wonderful to just be someone who wanders aimlessly through the dream world just dealing with whatever comes my way. I think it's when you let your subconscious mind do the work, instead of just having your own little playground to run around in, that you see the things that are truly amazing. The problem is just remembering that while I'm lucid. X)

You're so right about this. One of my buddies that lucid dreams told me that he rarely takes control when he becomes lucid and uses it almost entirely to enhance his recall. He just acts as an observer. He's a filmmaker and he gets a lot of his ideas from his dreams, so he just uses it as a direct conduit to his creativity. For me that would require an amazing level of self-control! The second I'm lucid, I just want to leap, run, fly, and play!

Some of the best Tasks of the Month have been the ones where you get to just have your subconscious fill in something open-ended. The classic example of this for me is looking in a mirror. Another good one is asking your subconscious a question. And a great TotM was flying up to the Aurora Borealis and finding out what produces it. If you can hand your subC a blank canvas and the freeom to work, I find that you tend to get some amazing work product.

And oh, the sex demon? Or have more shown up since then? I'm pretty sure I remember at least another one coming into play at some point, but it's been a while since I've read Ophelia's DJ. X3

Okay, I have to make a correction now. Ophelia's sex demon did come after Xanous. Came up behind him and spooned his backside or something horrible like that. LOL. Those two share the worst dream material.

I found all of this out because I told Xanous to check w/ Ophelia on advice for beating false awakenings since she never ever gets them anymore. And what does he do? Spreads his false awakening dream cooties to her! FA Fvcked Me - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

LOL. Yes, I'm afraid that we are probing the outer limits of what DreamViews is capable of. I am saddened and disillusioned to learn that we live in a world of PM size limits, DJ comment size limits, and the cruel, barbaric four-smiley limit. (Let's not even start on the roughly 30-character Visitor Message size limit.)

*shudder* Visitor Messages.... Yeah, probably best to just not even take the conversation in that direction. XD

I have to agree though, I had really hoped we were past this. It makes me wonder what else on here has limits just beyond where I've previously thought I still had lots of space left lol.

Oh, the reference to fractals is so cool. That sort of infinitely recursive imagery sounds exactly like the kind of brain hardware that could generate arbitrary, convincing levels of detail. And of course everything that you see looks realistic -- it looks exactly as you remember it looking!

Since the PFC has such an important role to play in acting as the "seat of judgment", I wonder what happens to this bit of brain functionality when exposed to psychedelics. Since they're causing PFC hyperactivity, is this what sometimes causes paranoia to arise when someone's on psychedelics?

I think there are multiple sources of psychedelic paranoia, but the prefrontal cortex is definitely involved in it. Especially the ventromedial PFC, which is thought to be involved in some of the more severe disturbances in perception of self. That's also intimately tied to the death experience of psychedelics, the feeling of being so far from reality that you have to just accept the fact that you can no longer monitor whether you're alive or dead. And believe me, that will make you pretty paranoid if you let it! I personally believe that this is actually where many strong spiritual experiences come from, particularly those involving the white light and feelings of unification with god or a universal consciousness. The mPFC (m = medial) functions alongside the amygdala, and my guess is that too much stimulation in the former is one of the, probably few, ways that the brain can stimulate out-of-body experiences that don't involve perception of a body by default. It makes sense to me that if the amygdala creates OBEs/dream scenes by stimulating the hippocampus and re-writing our map of the world then the parameters that set that world up would change depending on where the amygdala stimulation is coming from, so I'm guessing that's just how this particular method happens to work.

Interestingly, the mPFC is the much more emotionally-driven part of the brain than the DPFC. And like I said before, the amygdala, which is enhanced by mPFC activity, can shut down DPFC activity. Emotions trump reason? Particularly in states where the mPFC is especially active like in moments of extreme passion - the kind that are much more common in dreams. I also feel the need to point out my whole control vs awareness thing, how I just run with how I feel in a lucid rather than trying to focus on my environment.... Does this feed the mPFC and allow for those body-free experiences I mentioned? In other words, is awareness vs control really dorsolateral vs ventromedial? If only there was a way to test it for sure!

Buuut, I do have reason to believe that menthol works by increasing communication between the mPFC and the amygdala, and it definitely enhances the kind of control I use on a very direct level.

Yes, agreed all the way around. It seems that during NLDs the DPFC is just in a very subdued state. Even though normally I do a lot of pretty dumb stuff in NLDs, I'm usually at least somewhat attuned to right vs. wrong and in some cases even somewhat resistant to temptations (although far less than IWL.) So the PFC seems to be doing something.

I'd love to know what happens in that moment where it seems to just catch fire, almost as if you've reached such a critical mass of awareness that it becomes self-sustaining. Yes, you have to take steps to keep the fire burning, but that's a much smaller hurdle to clear than actually becoming lucid.

"Focus breeds stability". How true that is! That's a nice, unified explanation for why you can stabilize a scene by taking a close look at your hands, rubbing them together, etc. or simply be a high-enough level LDer that you naturally sink your claws into the dreamworld and keep yourself pinned in there with focus, no longer needing to stabilize.

You and me both! There's clearly a big change that happens at that point or it just wouldn't work the way that it does. This is why we need to just all go into labs and have our brains scanned when we lucid dream.

You're so right about this. One of my buddies that lucid dreams told me that he rarely takes control when he becomes lucid and uses it almost entirely to enhance his recall. He just acts as an observer. He's a filmmaker and he gets a lot of his ideas from his dreams, so he just uses it as a direct conduit to his creativity. For me that would require an amazing level of self-control! The second I'm lucid, I just want to leap, run, fly, and play!

Some of the best Tasks of the Month have been the ones where you get to just have your subconscious fill in something open-ended. The classic example of this for me is looking in a mirror. Another good one is asking your subconscious a question. And a great TotM was flying up to the Aurora Borealis and finding out what produces it. If you can hand your subC a blank canvas and the freeom to work, I find that you tend to get some amazing work product.

Those are some pretty neat tasks. And I'll bet it would be really cool to get inspiration from dreams like that! I can't really control myself that well either lol. I do wander a bit more in lucids than I used to, but only because experience has taught me that if I don't just jump into things it'll last a bit longer. Has he been getting lucid for a long time?

Okay, I have to make a correction now. Ophelia's sex demon did come after Xanous. Came up behind him and spooned his backside or something horrible like that. LOL. Those two share the worst dream material.

I found all of this out because I told Xanous to check w/ Ophelia on advice for beating false awakenings since she never ever gets them anymore. And what does he do? Spreads his false awakening dream cooties to her! FA Fvcked Me - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Hahaha, I guess they are just linked then lol. I'm going to have to make sure I start reading both of their DJ entries so I can catch this stuff.