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    Thread: Centroid's Workbook

    1. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by FryingMan View Post
      The thing about the ADRC is that the target you choose should really be something you notice in dreams on a regular basis. Thinking about it a lot can induce the occurrence in dreams, though. I had several occasions of acute gravity awareness (for me, always a feeling of being too light) after I'd done it for a little while.

      That's why Hukif says the target really should be personal for every practitioner, depending on what you notice how dreams feel like.
      Thanks for the input!

      Hmm, so do you think I should still keep trying Gravity RC, or maybe wait until my recall becomes better so that I can try and figure out my own target/RC? I mean, apart from gravity, what do you think could be used as an ADRC? Or did you mean where and how you focus for the feeling of gravity?

      And yes, I am a bit stressed out these days (I should've started revising for this exam last week!). Maybe before bed I'll write down all of my worries, so that I can tell myself to forget about them, because I will be able to re-read them in the morning.

      Also, FryingMan, do you any induction techniques at night (WBTB, MILD, SSILD), or not because of insomnia? So if not you only rely on day work?

      I will lucid dream TONIGHT!!!
      (Trying to pass the message on to my subconscious, trust me, I'm not weird, just ignore these assumptions, thanks)

    2. #27
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      Hmm, so do you think I should still keep trying Gravity RC, or maybe wait until my recall becomes better so that I can try and figure out my own target/RC? I mean, apart from gravity, what do you think could be used as an ADRC? Or did you mean where and how you focus for the feeling of gravity?
      I think you should carry on the Gravity RC, whether your dream recall is good or bad. We don't really pay attention to our weight in reality nor in dreams, right? So focusing on it in reality, it will show up in dreams eventually! I say go for it!

      I see this also as a big part of self awareness. Since practising the RC I've been having more longer, vivid dreams. i had 6 dreams last night and I've been at lucid dreaming 2 months on the 12th.

      Keep up the good work!
      Formerly know as Josh.

      Sleep
      Dream
      Practice
      Repeat

    3. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by Centroid View Post
      Thanks for the input!

      Hmm, so do you think I should still keep trying Gravity RC, or maybe wait until my recall becomes better so that I can try and figure out my own target/RC? I mean, apart from gravity, what do you think could be used as an ADRC? Or did you mean where and how you focus for the feeling of gravity?

      And yes, I am a bit stressed out these days (I should've started revising for this exam last week!). Maybe before bed I'll write down all of my worries, so that I can tell myself to forget about them, because I will be able to re-read them in the morning.

      Also, FryingMan, do you any induction techniques at night (WBTB, MILD, SSILD), or not because of insomnia? So if not you only rely on day work?

      I will lucid dream TONIGHT!!!
      (Trying to pass the message on to my subconscious, trust me, I'm not weird, just ignore these assumptions, thanks)
      Other ADRC possibilities include: blinking, breathing, dream feeling, location, objects, pretty much any aspect of your experience you can think of that you notice a lot. I meant the first: realizing what you notice in dreams.

      I mostly rely on day work, and bedtime intention. I have had battles with insomnia in the past that took me quite a while to learn how to deal with (I worked a lot on relaxation). I personally do not enjoy WBTB, but I still recognize that it is very effective. I've done SSILD but with not any clear results (other than insomnia in the beginning, before I learned how to do it while simultaneously relaxing), so it is not my first choice. Because I do less night work than I could, I get fewer lucids than I think I could if I did night work more consistently. But I enjoy sleeping and dreaming through the night until morning . Every once in while I'll make a big push for night work and voice recording at each waking and that usually results in a batch of LDs.

      p.s. I don't think it's weird, I have little talks with my SC as well, and give it a kick in the butt once in a while ("COME ON, TIME FOR A LD ALREADY, LET'S GO!")
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    4. #29
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      Okay, phew, my recall is back! I was thinking it had gone forever...

      Anyway, I think I'll keep trying Gravity RC (Habba's fault haha), but still pay attention to my next dreams for another potential ADRC. Along with self-awareness and a critical mindset of course.

      FryingMan, yes, I understand. I was wondering why your LD count was rather low compared to fogelbise, when both of you started at around the same time. But still, I would LOOOOVE to have 182 LDs! And I can't even get one... Sorry, I WILL. VERY SOON. Be careful, teacher.


      04/05/16 RECAP

      Day work:
      -a bit less consistent than the other days with self-awareness and gravity RC, because I was reading old DV threads all the time, and thinking a lot about LD induction.
      -I still tried out my version of the RRC, and, well, the first time I do it is great, but in the following tries, I repeat what I did on the first try plus a bit more each time. So it gets repetitive and relies more on the memory of saying my backwards path than actually remembering it. So I see 2 solutions:
      1- doing it only at the end of the day, from the present moment to the moment I woke up that day
      2- doing it every hours, from the present moment to the moment I last did this exercise, an hour ago. If I don't move much, like when I'm at school, every two or three hours maybe

      Night work:
      -I was thinking my regular alarm wasn't enough to wake me up, so I put my phone alarm five minutes after the regular one. Turns out, I was right, only the phone woke me up. I'll give the non-working one to my brother.
      -I stayed up for 10 minutes, 4.5 hours after I went to bed. I wanted to do SSILD, but I couldn't finish the short cycles. I think I kinda just drifted off... Tonight, I'll wake up 5.5 hours later, still staying up 10 minutes.
      -Recall was good, one full dream and half of another one when I first woke up for WBTB, and then another full one when I woke up for real. I feel like intent at night was helpful.

    5. #30
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      Oh, I'm sure you will bypass me in no time . Assuming you stick to it and don't quit. I envy all you young beginners with your pliable, flexible brains! I'm one of the few middle-aged adult beginners I know of who didn't also have LDs or was really into their dreams as a child. Compared to most, I started fairly late in life. Starting late, I have decades of mindlessness and autopilot behavior ingrained in my neural pathways and that I imagine will be a burden I'll have to just deal with pretty much forever. Still, I'm pretty happy with my dreaming experiences and my DJ is full of amazing vivid & present dreams. The LDs may average once per 5-6 days, but there are piles of non-lucids ever night...I do love dreaming!

      Sticking to it is really important. Fogelbise was of the "DV joining class" just before mine. Of his class, I think he is just about the only one left, and of mine, I think I am just about the only one left. Only a very small handful remain over time.

      Sageous says not to pay attention to counts, I tried ignoring it for a while but I found myself returning to it just as a way to keep tabs on my progress. It's definitely better not to stress about it, and just concentrate on the dream experiences you want to have.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
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      No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    6. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by FryingMan View Post
      Sticking to it is really important. Fogelbise was of the "DV joining class" just before mine. Of his class, I think he is just about the only one left, and of mine, I think I am just about the only one left. Only a very small handful remain over time.
      Wow, that's scary. Lucid dreaming is becoming an endangered skill Is this mostly because of the huge effort to reward ratio? Well, I won't quit, so yeah. What I just said right there will force me to stick to it Thank you, teacher!

    7. #32
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      I think it's that people, especially young people these days, have very low tolerance for patience and very poor concentration skills. Progress in LDing is measured in months and years, not hours and minutes (or days and weeks even). It is definitely not a "instant gratification" hobby! The rewards are huge, but the effort is also huge. Lucid dreaming is not so much something you "do," it's more about changing your fundamental approach to life in general.
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      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    8. #33
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      I have to applaud FryingMan. He is way better at dream recall than I am. Many of my non-lucid dreams tend to be more towards the fragmented end of the spectrum with memory gaps. He is also way better at putting concepts into words and at getting down to the essence of those concepts. We bounce ideas off of each other and he has been helpful in my growth. I honestly feel that when he finds a personal, consistent solution to the insomnia accompanying his night time induction that he mentioned above, that he is going to see incredible results. (A consistent sleep schedule helps too!) Even without that, I feel that his approach will eventually lead to lucid dreams most any night that he wants them, and that the same is possible for most anyone who sets their mind to it.

      It can be hard to imagine achieving some of the things that you see others achieving until you have achieved something maybe a step or two down from where they are at. It is still hard for me to see myself getting to Hukif's level but then I remember where I started. When I started my adult LD practice, I wouldn't have believed with all of my heart that my current level was attainable. I remember asking some members that I respect if nightly LD's were possible and their response led me to believe that they thought that anyone claiming that was exaggerating. Though I haven't achieved "nightly" LD's, it wasn't until I had LD's 6 nights in a row that I truly believed that nightly LD's were attainable at some point (looking at my notes, February 2016, it would have been 11 straight nights if not for one night off). And for a scientific explanation of how it could be possible, check out neuroplasticity.

      On the subject of what happens to many of our DV members over time, much of it I would guess is what FryingMan pointed to. I wanted to add that I think there are also a fair number of people that have just continued their practices on their own. Sometimes I will check the profile for people that used to participate more in the forums here and see that they did pop in somewhat recently. Maybe they browsed the forums and perhaps they saw discussions that inevitably repeat here and had felt like they were not seeing anything new. I do often notice that some of the more interesting threads will draw some long time members out from behind the curtain. I will see names I haven't seen before or haven't seen in a while and look at their join date and see they that have been members for quite a while. Some great lucid dreamers disappear from this forum for months or even years at a time. Some of these members may not update their LD count or have, over the years, lost track of how many they've had by not keeping records. I think that overall lucid dreaming is growing, though it is still largely in it's infancy.
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    9. #34
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      Hey,

      So, school starts again tomorrow, and I am going to be extremely busy and stressed out for at least the next two weeks, so I probably wont be posting anything. After that, things will slow down and get a bit better. But exactly one month from this day, I will be on holidays!!! So thats gonna be (almost) three months of intense lucid training.

      My sleep schedule is probably gonna be like:
      -want to go to bed at 10
      -still have work and go to bed at 11
      -10 to 60 minutes of insomnia
      -wake up at 7
      It's been EXACTLY like this for the past year or so.

      What do you think are the MOST important things that I will regret not doing during these 2-5 weeks? Ill try and stick to DJing (its important and fun), but with tags only.

      Thanks

    10. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by Centroid View Post
      What do you think are the MOST important things that I will regret not doing during these 2-5 weeks? I’ll try and stick to DJing (it’s important and fun), but with tags only.
      Thanks
      Well, you said you're going to maintain the DJ...but: I recommend never taking a vacation from dream recall. Always reach for dream memories the very moment you wake up, every single time you wake up.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    11. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by FryingMan View Post
      Well, you said you're going to maintain the DJ...but: I recommend never taking a vacation from dream recall. Always reach for dream memories the very moment you wake up, every single time you wake up.
      Good point! Thanks!

      But then would it be ok not DJing these weeks, and simply recall the dream? Or did I just call upon me the wrath of dreamviews?

    12. #37
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      No wrath from here! But consistency yields results. I think the most important thing is really reaching for those dream memories upon waking, and DJing helps to accomplish that. This isn't boot camp and we're not going to yell at you, what you do is up to you. I personally recommend finding a way to work LD practice into daily life, whatever is going on in your life. Of course at times you have to give your attention to other things, only you can decide which goals and responsibilities are the most important to you at any particular time.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
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      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    13. #38
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      Hey there! Long time no see...
      So, weekly recap!

      RECAP (I won't bother with the date because it's written on top of my post anyway, smart huh? )

      Day work:
      -Self-Awareness went ok, always aware of my presence and its interaction with everything.
      -Have tried hard avoiding auto-pilot mode, moderate success.
      -Gravity RC still up and running, not always actively focusing on it, but trying to keep it permanently on the back of my mind.
      -I have kind of merged Self-Awareness and Gravity RC, to make it simpler, because I'm always deciding which one every time I think about it. So I focus on my *Presence*, which includes the self (Self-Awareness) and then the physical presence (mostly about its interaction with gravity, so Gravity RC too). I'm happy with this, easier to remember doing too.

      Night work:
      -I slept 7 hours a night instead of 9, the only difference tbh is that I'm irritated when I get up.
      -Dream recall, getting better. The dream-scenes I remember are much longer, maybe ~20 minutes instead of ~10 (hard to say, really). I also recall at least one of these scenes every time I wake up, so 2-3 a night.
      -No induction techniques, because I didn't want to lose any more sleep


      Ideas:

      I was reading http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ramblings.html the other day, and going through Sensei's posts, I was really interested in his dual awareness idea (General Dream Awareness and State Awareness).

      My dream awareness is already getting better with dream recall. But I still need to improve my sleep schedule and cut down stress, otherwise I know LDing will be harder.

      I'm thinking about lucid dreaming a lot, and doing "presence checks" throughout the day (Self-Awareness + Gravity RC), so this should increase state awareness. Maybe a mantra too, I'll talk about this a bit later.


      But I haven't talked about this week's results! Because last night I thought in a dream: "Hey, I'm lucid! That means I can fire my favorite gun!" And I summon an old ugly gun and start shooting stuff. Then I wake up. So this person wasn't me because I do not like that kind of western-style gun. Also, I have not noticed that I was dreaming, only lucid, as if being lucid was like a state or mode, video game style, if you get what I mean.

      How did I get this experience?
      Day work
      -3 weeks of self-awareness and Gravity RC
      -3 weeks of recording dreams
      -3 weeks thinking a lot about lucid dreaming and reading old threads at DV
      Night work
      -Natural WBTB of 25 minutes after 7 hours of sleep
      -Read ETWOLD during that WBTB
      -Did some MILD, by falling asleep repeating 'I'm dreaming', and visualizing myself lucid (flying + telekinesis)

      I believe this experience was largely due to MILD, and helped a lot by the day awareness work I was doing. But MILD gave me a false lucid, I think because 'I'm dreaming' doesn't make me think of the dream, just of being lucid. Maybe I should use 'this is a dream', might make more sense to my dream self. Also, I have already tried MILD for a month or so last year by saying 'when I'm dreaming, I will realize that I am dreaming', with very little success. So I think this mantra isn't very good for me, too long and hard to get across maybe. I'll try 'this is a dream next time'.

      Also, I was thinking of having a mantra to repeat during the day too, like Sensei. Maybe the same as in my MILD, 'this is a dream'. This should be a huge boost to state awareness, all I need now is general dream awareness (with better recall).

      Another hard week coming with school, several big tests etc. I think I need to keep doing day awareness work, but prioritize sleeping enough and reducing stress (I'm extremely stressed during the week, most of my dreams then are of exams). To reduce stress I'll study more, but by going to bed early I sacrifice studying time... So I just need to be as efficient as I can, studying all the time. I don't think I'll be able to come here at DV very often. But in 4 weeks I'm on holidays for 3 months!

    14. #39
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      This morning I had three deams where lucid dreaming was mentioned, after MILD ('this is a dream' + visualizing myself using the force to levitate, and then flying around throwing fireballs haha). I'm getting super-close! So excited!
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      Excellent! You are very close indeed!
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    16. #41
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      I agree that you are getting close! Keep up the progress (without neglecting your studies of course). For the dream mentioned in your post before your last post (the longer one), that does sound like a dream about lucid dreaming, but you might also want to read my reply to Habba that I just posted in his workbook: #132. It has some things to consider when dealing with the notion of a false lucid.

      On your question about changing your mantra: Have you thought about making it in French (or maybe you are already doing that)? I hear that it is recommended to use your native language as it may make the connections between those neurons stronger...or some such technical explanation.

      You may also want to include in your visualizations a simple (simple, for ease of transfer into the dream) self awareness moment of stopping and reflecting on your state, so that you fully realize "where" you are (experiencing a dream, an adventure while asleep, where you have a profound effect on everything around you, directly or indirectly).
      Last edited by fogelbise; 05-19-2016 at 10:29 PM.

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      MY FIRST LUCID DREAM!
      WOO-HOO!

      I was in an X-Wing Starfighter (star wars) and the dream started collapsing. So I thought, DEILD! I managed to take out my phone and tried keeping my attention to it (I'm not so sure why), and then I suddenly appeared at my bed. I still had my phone in my hand, and the time kept going from 08:00 to 48:00 so I thought to myself: This is an FA! I'm still dreaming!' I then jumped through the window of our apartment and started flying! More like gliding really, couldn't control my speed, but it was still fun! Then I landed and woke up for real. I knew I really had woken up, because my heart was racing and I was feeling euphoric, but I still did an RC to confirm. 1st LD! YEAH!!!

      This LD couldn't have come at a better time, because my interest in LDing had started fading. I could not think about lucid dreaming for a whole day, and was not consistent in my day work. Anyway, now I'm back in the game!

      It's funny how I MILDed that I was using the force, and I dreamt I was in a Starfighter! Before, my MILD was focusing on the mantra, but now I see visualizations are VERY powerful. I'll keep MILD going, but just at bedtime because waking up in the middle of the night would make me sleep for less than 8,5 hours.

      So that said, I will keep up daytime self-awareness with more frequent presence checks.

      I'm so happy! Yay!
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      Quote Originally Posted by fogelbise View Post
      I agree that you are getting close! Keep up the progress (without neglecting your studies of course). For the dream mentioned in your post before your last post (the longer one), that does sound like a dream about lucid dreaming, but you might also want to read my reply to Habba that I just posted in his workbook: #132. It has some things to consider when dealing with the notion of a false lucid.

      On your question about changing your mantra: Have you thought about making it in French (or maybe you are already doing that)? I hear that it is recommended to use your native language as it may make the connections between those neurons stronger...or some such technical explanation.

      You may also want to include in your visualizations a simple (simple, for ease of transfer into the dream) self awareness moment of stopping and reflecting on your state, so that you fully realize "where" you are (experiencing a dream, an adventure while asleep, where you have a profound effect on everything around you, directly or indirectly).
      Thanks for the advice!

      I'm not sure about making it in French, it's just that everything I have ever done/read/heard about lucid dreaming is in English, so it makes more sense to me this way. But tbh, I now feel that visualizations are much more powerful, I'll try out what you said about that self-awareness visualization, great idea!

    19. #44
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      Congratulations! I'm sure it will be the first of many!
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
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      No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    20. #45
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      Thanks! I'm sure it will!

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      Awesome Centroid!! I agree, since visualization seems to be among your strengths, roll with it! I also find it powerful but I see others that have trouble with developing good visualization skills, so you have an advantage with this!

      Don't forget to update your LD count, still says none. Maybe instead of "1" you can't put "Had my first!" or "First of many, May 2016" as examples to boost your confidence to build on your first success. It truly makes me happy to read about people's first LD's. The dream collapsing is an excellent dream sign and as you found out, it DOES NOT HAVE TO MEAN THE END OF REM!

    22. #47
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      Congrats Centroid!

    23. #48
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      Second lucid dream!!!!!!
      Yeah!!!!!!

      FA --> LD (like my other lucid)
      Not sure what triggered lucidity, as I can't remember anything before the FA, and when I had the FA, I knew immediately I was dreaming. Dunno if something had happened earlier, or maybe it was because 2 nights ago I tried to incubate myself waking up lucid. Then I did the close-eye teleportation technique (Sensei-style), but before I could even imagine a place to go to I appeared at the Alps, ready to ski. I really like this technique, it gets rid of any doubt that I am not dreaming. So then I skied a little, found a huge jump and tried to make it. But I went too fast, missed the ramp and crashed... Then I lost lucidity and dreamed of being airlifted by helicopter into a hospital, both my legs missing... Then I woke up, very happy about the LD (though rather short).

      Tbh, what I do (visualizations at night) feels more like incubation than MILD, so I think that's what I'll call it. I overload my mind with something for 10 minutes, and I have a chance of dreaming about that. Been trying this for a week, seeing myself using cool powers (some success, a couple of times, no lucidity though), now I think I'll try to incubate close-eye teleport, as it's such an effective RC. Will see how to do that.

      Trying hard to keep up hourly presence checks, looking to do them more frequently, every time I think something LD related. My dream recall is going GREAT since I started typing on my phone instead of making squiggles on a notebook. It's weird, because I am motivated to write more down, and I do. Placebo, I don't know.

      2 LDs within 2 weeks
      Also I can't edit my LD count unless I'm on my computer...
      FryingMan and fogelbise like this.

    24. #49
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      Congrats! Keep it up, you're doing great! If you feel that an approach will work for you, the added confidence will make it so, so keep on with that!
      I think having concrete LD dream goals is a stronger and more reliable way to get lucid than just trying to create strong intent for general lucidity.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    25. #50
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      Quote Originally Posted by FryingMan View Post
      I think having concrete LD dream goals is a stronger and more reliable way to get lucid than just trying to create strong intent for general lucidity.
      Precisely, now I'll try and come up with some new dream goals, but I'll have to make them easy to visualize, and effective for lucidity.

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