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    Thread: Pornocrates's Workbook

    1. #51
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pornocrates View Post
      Oh and Rcing whenever I woke up!
      That's good! See if you can move that RCing time earlier and earlier, right into the dream! If you can very quickly notice wakings, you can do all sorts of interesting DEILD approaches (The Phase, FILD, plain DEILD, etc.).

      I myself tried FILD last night seriously during an early waking (one of the ones where I usually fall back asleep VERY quickly) and thought I was making some progress but my wife was too fidgety/noisy for me to make it asleep while FILDing, so I had to give it up and aim squarely for sleep.

      Training yourself to notice your awakings, and in fact to strive to pay attention to the entire night, is a good thing to do from time to time. Do it only on nights where you can afford to sleep in, though, because when I've tried it it resulted in fairly poor sleep but much higher attention/awareness throughout the night.
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    2. #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pornocrates View Post
      Yesterday I managed to go to bed before 1AM. I turned off the lights around 00:30.
      I had 4 waking: 00:30 => 7:00 => 8h45 => 9h30 => 11h00 (there might be another one but I don't remember.
      Nice! I used to be more of night owl but my excitement about lucid dreaming got me to gradually move my bedtime earlier, especially on weeknights. I can now squeeze in more WBTB's on weeknights even when I have to get up earlier, because I go to bed earlier.

      8h45: I had a really intense dream about spiders (Yuck) but when I awoke I was too tired and lazy to write it down. I wrote it at 11:00 (final waking) but lacked a few details.
      From the last period I had 1 very long dream about hosting a homeless person, doing my old summer job (night receptionist in hotels) and zombies (Someone had removed thei hunger for human flesh and they would just lick people and eat food: fries and all).
      Zombie lickers, haha! That would make a good comedy skit or perhaps more.

      I'm really happy about this night, firstly because I went to bed earlier and so woke up with energy (without waking after 12:00PM), secondly because I had intense dreams. Fortunately I will have an easy time writing down my dreams tonight because I will feel less tired during the night.
      This is good! Celebrating these positive results and cherishing the dreams you had can help you to build on the successes, providing motivation to continue putting in the effort.

      When I went to bed, I used my mantra a bit, and used conscious breathing to get my mind off stressful stuff but I don't think I repeated the mantra until the end. I want to get back to setting intentions before bedtime + relaxation: mindfulness, stretching + visualization. Avoiding screens at least 1h,1h30 before going to bed would be a good thing too (even though I use flux).

      Oh and Rcing whenever I woke up!
      Yes, these are all great ideas
      Last edited by fogelbise; 06-18-2016 at 08:00 PM. Reason: From "all ideas" to "all great ideas"
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    3. #53
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      Yesterday was really awful, I went to bed pretty early (around 11:30PM) and did some relaxation. It worked at first but as always when I try to sleep by focusing on my breathing and getting comfortable I always end up being too aware of it and my mind keeps rushing. It's hard to explain, kind of like when you try wilding you feel like you're forcing yourself to sleep and it doesn't work.
      At 1AM I decided to read a bit, I read some Marc-Aurele (His writings are really complicated to read, the phrasing is all but natural in translations so it made me drowsy) but still couldn't sleep. I ended up reading posts on reddit until 5:15AM (not a good idea but sleeplessness prevent me from thinking rationally) and then slept until 12:00 PM.

      I could expect a sleepless night, I almost do nothing during my days, I don't move much, I don't exercise and I wake up late, but still it was disheartening...

      I realize that when I don't go to bed before 3AM it's not only that I want to do other things, it's also simply that I'm not sleepy at all. This time was weird though because I managed to walk a bit and go study at my university and when I got back home, I got sleepy around 9:30-10PM (I guess I missed the "sleep train").

      However it won't affect my will, I just need to do what I planned to do during the day (study, etc) so as to not feel remorseful once in my bed and to walk/run/exercise so as to be physically tired. At least until I get used to go to bed earlier! I might also begin by trying to go to bed around the same time every night to get my brain used to it.
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      (I made a small edit to the last sentence of my previous post.)

      Sorry to hear about your bad night. Shake that one off (put it out of your mind, thinking instead of your previous good night) and try not to overthink it when going to bed. Maybe look for a wider window of time to latch on to some sleepiness like that 9:30-10:30 period where you got sleepy until you get used to earlier bedtimes.If you lay down and you just don't feel sleepy it is sometimes best to get up briefly and "reset."
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    5. #55
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      One more thing: I just came across this article that should help you avoid issues like last night:

      Insomnia: One Simple Instruction Could Prevent 80% Of Chronic Problems - PsyBlog
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    6. #56
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      i also read robert waggoners book and i learned a lot from his work tbh.
      Last edited by coolcoolcool; 06-18-2016 at 10:31 PM.
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    7. #57
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      Hey everybody, I'm back!

      I haven't been active at all this summer, things have been awfully busy (and it still is), I recently graduated and moved out of my apartment in Paris, had to prepare all the paperwork for my visa because I am now in Japan, Tokyo for at least a year!

      Anyway, even though I didn't keep on writing in my workbook I recorded my dreams on and off, and found myself thinking about LDing on a daily basis. Esp when I'm in trains, that's usually when I RC. I thought a lot about what you teachers told me about RCing and being self aware when I'm busy and also about making LDing fit into your routine. I'm still trying to find a way but I find it quite hard!

      Plan: Week 1 from Monday 19 to Sunday 26 will be focused on DR with at least 1 dream/night. For Mindfulness and self awareness, whenever I think about LDing I guess but also a few sessions everyday (2 or 3 x 3 mins). I'll also use mantras at bedtime and when awakening during the night.

      That program should be easygoing enough to not find myself abandoning it, anyway I'm looking forward to exchange experiences and progress with you!

    8. #58
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      Welcome back! What a big move. Tokyo must be deluge of new experiences, perhaps even somewhat dreamlike…maybe you can use that to your advantage. Dreams of being in Paris for the next year may be a good dream sign. Your plan does seem like a good way to get back to lucid dreaming practices and it is always something you can build on later when you are ready to. I look forward to hearing about your progress!

    9. #59
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      Hi Fogelbise, thanks for the answer! I've been crazy busy here and yeah I get these dreamlike situations a lot but I don't always RC ! I used to have this frequent dreamsign : being in Japan but since I arrived here, not anymore haha...


      On the good points of the last month:

      -I started consistantly practicing mindfulness (with an app called Headspace) at first it was only 10 mins a day but it's doing wonders to my mood and my discipline, etc... So that's great!
      -I feel like I'm getting a good waking schedule (around 8) but bedtime's still quite random..
      -I've had these urges to RC and I'm thinking about LDing a lot

      The downsides:
      -I'm in a dormitory now (and have been for nearly a month) so it's difficult to have some quiet time in order to remember dreams or even to have a good sleep... I can't really put alarms during the night...
      -I'm really busy, many things to do so sometimes I forget about RCs (even though SA and Mindfulness are doing great!)



      Oh also I think I'm going to start the PMT again, I'd like to have more day practices since the night ones are falling behind...!


      Overall I'm feeling pretty confident about everything.

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      Yes, but if you find yourself back in France, and you have no scheduled trips back there anytime soon, that can be a great clue that you are dreaming.

      Your good points - great work!

      Quote Originally Posted by Pornocrates View Post
      The downsides:
      -I'm in a dormitory now (and have been for nearly a month) so it's difficult to have some quiet time in order to remember dreams or even to have a good sleep... I can't really put alarms during the night...
      -I'm really busy, many things to do so sometimes I forget about RCs (even though SA and Mindfulness are doing great!)

      Oh also I think I'm going to start the PMT again, I'd like to have more day practices since the night ones are falling behind...!
      -If you want to use WBTB on days when you can sleep in, I recommend the water method where you drink enough water to naturally wake you up part way through the night.

      -Maybe integrate RCs into the SA and/or mindfulness so that you are always also RC'ing when you do one of those activities.

      I apologize if we discussed this before, but what are you referring to as "PMT"?

    11. #61
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      Hey Fogelbise,

      Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it!

      -I don't sleep in these days but if I do I will on sundays, I'll follow you advice this sunday! I tried this technique many times, the thing is I mainly use MILD and you need to remember the last dream right? When I use water to wake myself up the urge to go to the toilet gets in the way of my dream recall..

      -I'm now integrating it and it works, I'll keep on doing it during my morning meditation (21 days in now hehe!) and other mindful moments of the day

      Don't worry about it, PMT is the Prospective Memory Training you can find in Laberge's ETWOLD!

    12. #62
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pornocrates View Post
      -I don't sleep in these days but if I do I will on sundays, I'll follow you advice this sunday! I tried this technique many times, the thing is I mainly use MILD and you need to remember the last dream right? When I use water to wake myself up the urge to go to the toilet gets in the way of my dream recall..
      I think that it is great to use the last dream before waking, if it is very clear in your memory. When the last dream is not clear, I have found success with other dreams from that night or even from previous nights that are very clear, especially if they are inspiring. I have also used inspiring daytime occurrences and inspiring daydreams, though that is more incubation than MILD, but they work in very similar ways for me and one may argue that they could working the same way for most people. The important thing is to include the trigger of clearly visualizing that moment of realizing that you are dreaming during your MILD attempts and during any incubation attempts.

      I find the same thing with the water method many times but I like the trade-off...that it greatly increases my chances of a lucid dream afterwards.
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    13. #63
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      Hi Fogelbise, I think I found an alternative to the water method!
      Since I'm in a dorm right now I use an eye mask and earplugs and I always wake up during the night to take everything off hehe..

      Also I had a LD this morning, after trying wild and then just using a mantra! Success!

      I fell back asleep during the morning with some music, don't know if that helped.
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      Awesome! Congratulations on your LD! Also, great job finding an alternative means of waking naturally!

      I'd say the wild attempt and the mantra were a bigger factor than the music, but it never hurts to experiment with music.
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      Thank you!

      Yeah it's a cool way to WBTB I guess !

      I think so too, I also think that what the music helped with is that it made me fall asleep faster since I usually have trouble with that!
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      October 2016 progress so far !

      Hey everybody!

      To begin this report I'd like to say that I had my first success with SSILD ! Yayayay
      I've been trying (almost) every night since Monday night but always had a hard time because of the noise in the dorm or because of my (late) schedules!
      Went to bed around 4 after playing video games for a while then woke up around 8:30 (alarm), tried the technique and slept until 9:30 (alarm) and then until 12.
      The dream seemed very long and I don't remember how I got lucid because of that. I don't remember doing a RC so I guess lucidity just popped up (from the mindfulness I try to do during the whole day) ?

      I'm still doing mindfulness every morning (20 minutes now), it's been 40 days now and I clearly feel the effects :
      - I'm calmer
      - I tend to do mindfulness at different times during the day
      - I label all emotions when I find myself not present

      I've been training my prospective memory for a little more than 2 weeks and 5 days now. Thing is I have a harder time getting more than half of them, usually I hit 2/3 or 3/4 by the end of the second week!

      Mindfulness during the day was a great idea, I really prefer it over ADA ! I'm going to keep trying SSILD every night until the end of the week and then switch between MILD and SSILD. So I plan on focusing on being present/mindful throughout the day, dream recall (only an average of 2 dreams remembered each night which I find a bit low) and the prospective memory training! (That makes it 2 LDs during October then )
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    17. #67
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      Congratulations on the LD, the SSILD success and the mindfulness success!! Those long ones are really something - keep up the great work!!
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      Thank you fogelbise, the lucidity was going on and off but overall it was a great dream, I just wished I remembered it directly when I woke up !

      I'll keep trying both MILD and SSILD, just need to adjust my schedules to the people around me so as not to get disturbed 5 times a night...

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      Hey guys,

      Just dropping by to say I'm still training LDing everyday but I just didn't have any LD since October the 22nd...

      I'm not in a dorm anymore so I'm trying WILD a bit but I still need to get used to the pace of my new job, usually when I come home (pretty late) I'm too exhausted to WBTB during the night, but I'm working a lot on all that.

      I know it's not the place but I'd like to go in detail concerning my last wild attempt:

      It was around 6AM (woken up by an earthquake...), I was tired enough to try so I put some peaceful music and I don't move at all. As usual my hands get numb (I don't really feel them anymore and I don't know how they're placed on the bed), I feel like I'm sinking, my visual senses go weird, like it's expanding and then getting thinner then nothing... I wait for another wave thinking it would come back and staying calm, focusing on my breathing (mindfulness style), the music suddenly stops (it does that on my smartphone when I use youtube inthe browser, I got the music directly for next time because it's frustrating), after waiting another 10 minutes still nothing and without the music I can't help getting impatient and disappointed so I stopped.

      Is that normal? Why was everything going smoothly and then stopped all of a sudden?


      Apart from that, still training my prospective memory, still trying to be mindful all day and meditating every day (with my app), it's been 73 days now !

      Also, I was looking at my LDing bookmarks and decided to listen to Sensei's podcasts. I was listening to one titled "When I first started Lucid Dreaming, I wish someone would have told me..." and he talked about LD count barriers. As he said that 25 LDs is more or less 6 months in, I got depressed as I realized I've been at it for 27 months (with breaks I agree but still) with only around 15 LDs...
      So I decided to write a calendar with all my LDs indicated on it. I'm pumped up because I realize than even after all this time it's still my top priority but I also feel like I'm not doing things right...
      I'd like to get more consistent in my efforts. I'm doing a sleep oriented meditation pack, hopefully it will bring great results since one of my biggest issues is that I have trouble sleeping (esp when trying to induce through MILD or SSILD). One of the first big steps towards frequent lucidity would be regular sleeping schedules so I'll do my best.

      My goals right now are:

      - Get at least 1 LD before the end of the month, 2 if possible.
      - Get at least 1 LD a week in December
      - Set up my sleeping schedules :1AM to 8-9AM. I can't do otherwise because of my job since sometimes my shift ends at 11PM and sometimes I begin at 10AM, I'll try to arrange that.
      - Keep on working on mindfulness and improve my technique.

      Also, should I use different techniques at the same time? In ETWOLD, Stephen Laberge wrote that we should try all the techniques written in the book to see which one work.
      Right now I try to induce through MILD, SSILD and WILD (don't like this term, too inaccurate, it's the hypnagogic imagery technique I'm using.) but not every night I'm afraud because I'm worried it will make me sleepless (I sometimes end up not sleeping for 2-3 hours even with DILD techniques which are supposed to be "sleep friendly", until now I didn't want to try WILDing to much because I thought this inability to fall asleep when I try LDing would hinder my progress but now I realize that on the contrary it could help me a great deal in WILDing. What do you guys think about it ?

      Do you think we should try all techniques on some sort of rotating program ? Like 2 techniques for a month ?

      Sorry for such an unorganized message, yesterday was a long day and I'm exhausted.

      Have a nice day/night !

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      Quote Originally Posted by Pornocrates View Post
      Is that normal? Why was everything going smoothly and then stopped all of a sudden?
      Is there a chance that you were actually in a dream and that is why the external sound from your device stopped? It is always a good idea to use some motionless RC's to check if you really are lying awake in bed or if you are in a False Awakening or a "False Still Awake" you might call it. It does happen. That said, WILD's are not my expertise. Have you ever posted in the "Post your wild attempts here" thread that Sageous runs? Let me know if you don't know where to find it and I can look up the link.

      73 days - great work!

      I definitely wouldn't worry about the LD count/6 months thing. Everyone has different circumstances they are working with (different stresses are big) and like you said, you had breaks in between. Try to focus on whatever helped you feel "pumped up."

      Yes getting to a place where you can fall back to relatively easy is a good skill to have. I also had trouble early on after performing the SSILD cycles but I tried some techniques and got to the point where I rarely have trouble getting back to sleep anymore. Everyone will likely find something different that works for them, but I settled on the reverse eye blink (like a blink while awake but in reverse - starting with the eyes closed, blinking them open very briefly and back to closed) and rolling my eyes back for a half-second and then back to normal position under my closed eyelids. I use them once or twice whenever I feel the need to and the need may come up again some minutes later.

      Also, should I use different techniques at the same time? In ETWOLD, Stephen Laberge wrote that we should try all the techniques written in the book to see which one work.
      You might want to go with your gut here. My first reaction was to say that you might not want to mix up too many things at once, but then again it is a good way to quickly find techniques that you connect with. If you don't really like a particular technique, I see no problem in resigning it to a "maybe try later list." It is better to find practices that you mostly enjoy while also producing results and momentum.

      ...until now I didn't want to try WILDing to much because I thought this inability to fall asleep when I try LDing would hinder my progress but now I realize that on the contrary it could help me a great deal in WILDing. What do you guys think about it ?
      Well, you do have to get to sleep at some point of course. I found a higher rate of success when I seemed to be having trouble getting to sleep, but eventually did get to sleep…as opposed to those times where I fell asleep quickly.

      Do you think we should try all techniques on some sort of rotating program ? Like 2 techniques for a month ?
      If this sounds good to you, I see nothing wrong with it. I would just avoid doing something that feels like a pain in the butt…something that would make you less likely to keep up regular practice towards your long term lucid dreaming goals.
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      Hi Fogelbise,

      Thanks for your answer!

      Quote Originally Posted by fogelbise View Post
      Is there a chance that you were actually in a dream and that is why the external sound from your device stopped? It is always a good idea to use some motionless RC's to check if you really are lying awake in bed or if you are in a False Awakening or a "False Still Awake" you might call it. It does happen. That said, WILD's are not my expertise. Have you ever posted in the "Post your wild attempts here" thread that Sageous runs? Let me know if you don't know where to find it and I can look up the link.
      I RCed but it wasn't a motionless one, pretty sure I was awake. I saw the post, it's somewhere in my bookmarks, I guess I'll post on it thanks !

      No the device stopped because that's what it does after a while when I open youtube on my browser (smartphone) and lock the phone (not the first time it happens unfortunately!).

      I definitely wouldn't worry about the LD count/6 months thing. Everyone has different circumstances they are working with (different stresses are big) and like you said, you had breaks in between. Try to focus on whatever helped you feel "pumped up."
      Thing is, I still don't know what made me able to have 3 LDs in last April !
      And yes my efforts haven't always been consistent.

      Oh the reverse eye blink, I completely forgot about this technique, thanks !

      If you don't really like a particular technique, I see no problem in resigning it to a "maybe try later list." It is better to find practices that you mostly enjoy while also producing results and momentum. [...] If this sounds good to you, I see nothing wrong with it. I would just avoid doing something that feels like a pain in the butt…something that would make you less likely to keep up regular practice towards your long term lucid dreaming goals.
      You're probably right, I guess my whole approach is too rigid and forced at times... It's just I don't know how to make it natural, I've read some things from Sensei (I think) saying that the less beliefs you have the easier but I'm kinda stuck into a "everything must be lined up" mindset (meditation, mindfulness throughout the day, no screens at night, good sleeping schedules, etc...) even though I've had LDs on nights where I would go to bed around 3AM after 7h of gaming or no mindfulness, or just in the first 6 hours !

    22. #72
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pornocrates View Post
      You're probably right, I guess my whole approach is too rigid and forced at times... It's just I don't know how to make it natural, I've read some things from Sensei (I think) saying that the less beliefs you have the easier but I'm kinda stuck into a "everything must be lined up" mindset (meditation, mindfulness throughout the day, no screens at night, good sleeping schedules, etc...) even though I've had LDs on nights where I would go to bed around 3AM after 7h of gaming or no mindfulness, or just in the first 6 hours !
      It is nice if you can line up everything, but I definitely would recommend not keeping it rigid. Some people find success when they take a break for one day and relax. The success in those cases was most definitely aided by all of the previous days and weeks of work, but the person was just too rigid or stressed about making it work and that relaxed approach payed off. Of course the next day or two you want to get back to your practices but perhaps you can find a way to slip into more and more of your practices more naturally, doing them in a way that is more fun. Perhaps you start with working in a more fun approach with just one practice, changing it up a little and then continue with another practice after another breather or relaxed day some time later.
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    23. #73
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      Hi Fogelbise,

      What would you suggest as funny ways to help LDing ?
      In the last few days I've been thinking a lot about all that but I don't really find any way to take pressure off LDing (although I read an interesting post about that on DV), everything feels sort of stuck !

    24. #74
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pornocrates View Post
      Hi Fogelbise,

      What would you suggest as funny ways to help LDing ?
      In the last few days I've been thinking a lot about all that but I don't really find any way to take pressure off LDing (although I read an interesting post about that on DV), everything feels sort of stuck !
      I would say to try to enjoy the practices and know that they will benefit you in many ways on the way to those next lucid dreams so that you don't feel the pressure of having an LD tonight. Of course pressure can be a driver for change or renewed focus. You just want to make any pressures work for you and not against you.

      One way I make practice fun is to vividly imagine what I would do right now if I were lucid. Think of the endless possibilities almost anywhere you find yourself during a day! If you are at University, there would be many people to do fun things with or things going on that you could play with in a lucid dream (or within your mind, in practice). I also enjoy reading my lucid dream journals and even favorite non-lucid ones. This can remind you of how wonderful dreams are and can also remind you of common dream signs/themes (even if you don't practice using them, they can work themselves in subconsciously).
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      Quote Originally Posted by fogelbise View Post
      I would say to try to enjoy the practices and know that they will benefit you in many ways on the way to those next lucid dreams so that you don't feel the pressure of having an LD tonight. Of course pressure can be a driver for change or renewed focus. You just want to make any pressures work for you and not against you.

      One way I make practice fun is to vividly imagine what I would do right now if I were lucid. Think of the endless possibilities almost anywhere you find yourself during a day! If you are at University, there would be many people to do fun things with or things going on that you could play with in a lucid dream (or within your mind, in practice). I also enjoy reading my lucid dream journals and even favorite non-lucid ones. This can remind you of how wonderful dreams are and can also remind you of common dream signs/themes (even if you don't practice using them, they can work themselves in subconsciously).
      Thanks for the advice, I'm trying to make the most of my daydreaming habits to visualize
      fogelbise likes this.

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