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    Thread: Rendar's Workbook

    1. #1
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      Rendar's Workbook

      Hello everyone, my name is Rendar.

      I am a 34 years old and have been on the journey towards lucidity for a little over 6 months. I am a practicing Buddhist so meditation and questioning my reality are a daily thing. I am also a certified Hypnotherapist, so Im very familiar with the subconscious, the hypnagogic, etc. I think that might be part of why I have been having a difficult time with Lucid Dreaming. Someone in one of my other posts mentioned its like surgeon trying give himself surgery. Im too familiar with the nuts and bolts, so I kind of get in my own way.

      My Daily Practice looks something like this.

      Upon first waking up, I always try not to move, and spend at least 10 minutes focusing on remembering my dreams. The method that works best for me is to remember the most recent dreamscape, then constantly trying to remember where I was right before that. Its a decent method for me and I usually end up remember 2-4 dreams every night in detail. However after recording my dreams for the last 6 months, I have yet to really discover any repeatable themes of dream signs. My dreams seem to be all over the place and dont repeat stories, moments, or themes very often.

      During the day I follow what Charlie Morley calls the Weird method. Anytime something odd or out of place happens, I take a step back, and examine everything. The goal is figure out if you are dreaming. Hopefully this will make it into the dream state and when something out of place happens, you will catch it and begin to question if your dreaming. I usually check by performing a hand RC check (such as counting fingers, or pressing a finger through my palm) and at least 1 non physical RC (such as willing myself to float).

      I also meditate twice a day for about 20-30 minutes. 1 of those times will be mindfulness meditation, focusing on my breath. The other time will be Guru yoga or Deity Yoga.

      When getting ready for bed I do some stretches and work out any tension in my body. I will start the page of my dream journal for that night by putting the date, and always write out a 1 or 2 sentence of my intention to lucid dream. I will continue to relax my body and when I feel the hypnagogic sensations (basically the onset of Sleep Paralysis) I start to chant a matra in my mind. My go to one is usually "When Im dreaming, I will remember to realize im dreaming". Then I let myself drift to sleep.

      I naturally wake up 3-4 times in the night for a minute or two. Usually the second to last time I do this (around 4.5-5.5 hours after going to bed) I will do WBTB. For me 20 minutes is the sweet spot. Any less and i fall asleep too quickly, any more and I usually never up going back to sleep. I then perform an induction technique of some sort, usually sticking with one technique for 3 or more weeks.


      I have yet to have luck with any form of Induction technique. I have tried WILD by looking at the HH behind your eyes, FILD, MILD, and lately SSILD. So Im going to switch gears and instead work on DILD. My only hang up with DILD is it is VERY FREQUENT that in my dreams, I will notice something odd and think "hmmm this is a dream" and then just continue dreaming. Its like the conscious me is very motivated to LD, but the sleeping me could care less. I have even had dreams where I recognized I was in a dream, did a RC, the RC failed, proved to myself I was dreaming, and then just went "cool" and lost all sense of lucidity and let the dream continue as normal.

      One last thing I would like to add is to talk about Dream Yoga. As a Buddhist, this is actually why Im trying to learn to LD. I have tried following the traditional methods of Dream Yoga, and the instructions laid out in The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep. But so far I have not had a full Lucid Dream. I am actually taking the online seminar with Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche next month, so perhaps I will see some growth in the future.
      Last edited by Rendar1970; 08-19-2016 at 07:31 AM.

    2. #2
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      Hello, Rendar, and welcome to the DILD class!

      It looks like you have a good practice established, and it's working! You've had lucid dreams! So your practice *is* bearing fruit! It's just a matter of learning to seize the moment and increase the budding lucidity rather than letting it ebb away. One way to do this is to formulate and rehearse your "I'm dreaming!" ritual/moment while awake: plan ahead of time exactly what you will do and think at the moment of lucidity. Then a few times a day (the more the better), at some random moment during your day, particularly when you are really involved in something, just STOP and think "I'm dreaming! This is a dream!" and perform your ritual.

      Some suggestions for things to do in your ritual:
      + STOP moving, affirm strongly to yourself, "I'm dreaming, this is a dream!"
      + Count slowly to 5 looking all around you, engaging touch (something I like to do is give my dream body a quick pat-down from my chest to my feet)
      + Remember that your physical body is asleep in bed, and that the current experience is a dream taking place entirely within your mind
      + Recall your current high priority dream goals, and go about carrying them out

      It's helpful to rehearse an acronym made up from these stages, like: SCORE -- S(top) CO(unt) RE(member). Choose a term that is meaningful and easy to remember for you, and repeat this to yourself periodically all throughout the day: "I'm dreaming! SCORE! Stop! Count! Remember!"

      Then when you get lucid, immediately say "'I'm dreaming! SCORE! Stop! Count! Remember! <then do the associated actions with each step>"

      Another way to counter quickly lost lucidity is to (again!): rehearse staying lucid while awake. Take a long walk where you "get lucid," and *hold* your lucidity, maintain it for as long as your can. Visualize yourself completing dream goals. Our dreaming self is our waking self, just with the additional physiological challenges of the dream state (impaired access to memory being the main one, a general hazy/lazy awareness being another). So if your waking self can "get lucid" and *stay lucid*, your dreaming self will eventually catch up and you will be able to hold lucidity longer in the dream state.

      I have experienced time and time again that having concrete, specific LD goals that I'm really excited about and are important to me helps *tremendously* in getting lucid more frequently.

      I'm also studying dream yoga and wish to practice the dream yoga practices in the lucid dream state. But I think the most productive way to frame this as a goal is not just "I want to get lucid in order to do dream yoga," but rather "I want to get lucid and do several object/DC size/number transformations" <a *specific* dream yoga exercise>. Have several active, important, specific goals that you can follow and carry out in your LDs. In my LDs where I had a set of specific goals (one way to get these in a motivating way is to join the DV "Task of the Month/Year" threads where 5 sets of tasks (a few beginner a few advanced and one bonus) are posted every month and then participants post their successes and failures to the thread. It's a lot of fun!

      Have you read Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep? Have you read Andrew Holecek's new dream yoga book? I highly recommend both. I think they're absolutely required reading for all LD practitioners.

      Holecek in particular gives a number of visualizations that can be performed when falling back to sleep, you could incorporate those into your 3-4 wakings per night. Do you journal at these wakings? I find that speaking quick dream recall notes into a voice recorder app at every waking can give a mini-WBTB effect, and helps with remembering dreams from the earlier sleep phases. I don't do it all the time (in fact rarely now, but I do carry forward recall from each waking all through the night building up a list that I write down in the morning), but when I do, it is a big boost to recall and I believe also promotes lucidity.

      You may also want to try incorporating the Illusory body/speech/thoughts practices from dream yoga into your daily practice.

      Sometimes mixing things up helps: (re) read ETWOLD by LaBerge, and practice the Tholey Reflection/Intention moment. Spend a week or two boosting prospective memory (LaBerge), choose a daily "RC target" in addition to your regular practice (e.g., every time I see/hear/feel <a phone, a car, a tree, an emotion, etc.>).

      (Re)reading LD literature, especially the dream yoga sources, even if you've read them before, can be a big boost to intent and excitement.

      There are some thoughts and suggestions: good luck, write back and let us know how it's going! Feel free to use your workbook thread as a progress meter, posting daily experiences, etc., let us know if you have any questions! Oh and please post a review of the dream yoga seminar, sounds very interesting!
      fogelbise and Rendar1970 like this.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    3. #3
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      I will additionally add that having a current, well-rehearsed set of concrete dream goals helps prolong LDs by quite a lot. Finish one goal, go to the next, then to the next, and so on. The great thing about dream yoga is that there are so many stages of practice to try: transforming size/number, flying, walking through walls/floors, and so on. Holecek gives a long list of things to try.
      Rendar1970 likes this.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    4. #4
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      Welcome Rendar! When I read your original post here with your experiences I thought of the same idea as FryingMan (what an excellent, thorough post FM!), namely to "rehearse your 'I'm dreaming!' ritual/moment while awake." The only thing I would like to add to that is that before visualizing that moment and then moving on to your goals (both very helpful), you might also want to try simulating an RC that is indicating that you are in dream (indicating that you are in a dream while asleep in bed, with none of the limitations that we tend to experience while dreaming in the waking world, to borrow ideas from dream yoga.)

      Some ways that I like to simulate RC's to show that I am dreaming include lifting myself up on my toes while looking up which can give the sensation of beginning to float off of the ground, especially if you have a ceiling nearby that you can feel yourself approaching (even if every so slightly) as you lift up onto your toes. Recently I was looking at clouds just above the horizon in the moonlight that were going away from me and thus appeared to be going down towards the horizon, which also simulated the feeling of me floating up not unlike stationary motion simulators like you find in some arcades. Another simulation I use is to take a finger from one hand and stick it out under my other hand to give the look of having 6 fingers. In a dream the extra or odd finger(s) are part of the hand. You can also simulate the finger poking through your palm if you hold you palm at the right angle. The idea with the simulation is to invoke more genuine feelings of "wow, this really does feel like a dream." When you are in a sleeping dream, the float will be way more obvious and perhaps you will feel some excitement upon thinking about the difference, but either way I think the most important thing for you is to seize the moment like FM said through a "just became lucid" ritual. There are so many fun, creative, and inspiring things that you can do when lucid dreaming.

      Let us know if anything didn't make sense.

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by FryingMan View Post
      Hello, Rendar, and welcome to the DILD class!

      Some suggestions for things to do in your ritual:
      + STOP moving, affirm strongly to yourself, "I'm dreaming, this is a dream!"
      + Count slowly to 5 looking all around you, engaging touch (something I like to do is give my dream body a quick pat-down from my chest to my feet)
      + Remember that your physical body is asleep in bed, and that the current experience is a dream taking place entirely within your mind
      + Recall your current high priority dream goals, and go about carrying them out

      It's helpful to rehearse an acronym made up from these stages, like: SCORE -- S(top) CO(unt) RE(member). Choose a term that is meaningful and easy to remember for you, and repeat this to yourself periodically all throughout the day: "I'm dreaming! SCORE! Stop! Count! Remember!"

      Then when you get lucid, immediately say "'I'm dreaming! SCORE! Stop! Count! Remember! <then do the associated actions with each step>"
      This is a fantastic suggestion, Thank you. Im going to start implementing this and rehearsing through out the day.


      Quote Originally Posted by FryingMan View Post
      Have you read Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep? Have you read Andrew Holecek's new dream yoga book? I highly recommend both. I think they're absolutely required reading for all LD practitioners.

      Holecek in particular gives a number of visualizations that can be performed when falling back to sleep, you could incorporate those into your 3-4 wakings per night. Do you journal at these wakings? I find that speaking quick dream recall notes into a voice recorder app at every waking can give a mini-WBTB effect, and helps with remembering dreams from the earlier sleep phases. I don't do it all the time (in fact rarely now, but I do carry forward recall from each waking all through the night building up a list that I write down in the morning), but when I do, it is a big boost to recall and I believe also promotes lucidity.

      You may also want to try incorporating the Illusory body/speech/thoughts practices from dream yoga into your daily practice.

      Sometimes mixing things up helps: (re) read ETWOLD by LaBerge, and practice the Tholey Reflection/Intention moment. Spend a week or two boosting prospective memory (LaBerge), choose a daily "RC target" in addition to your regular practice (e.g., every time I see/hear/feel <a phone, a car, a tree, an emotion, etc.>).

      (Re)reading LD literature, especially the dream yoga sources, even if you've read them before, can be a big boost to intent and excitement.

      There are some thoughts and suggestions: good luck, write back and let us know how it's going! Feel free to use your workbook thread as a progress meter, posting daily experiences, etc., let us know if you have any questions! Oh and please post a review of the dream yoga seminar, sounds very interesting!
      I have read both Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep and Holecek's newest book. Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep has been my guide book for most of this journey so far. While I did really enjoy Holeceks book, I found meat of the book was about dreams in general, a very very small section on the actual techniques, and then the meat of the book was about what to do once you are there. Unfortunately it seems this is a pattern in almost ever book about Dream Yoga or LD. Lots of science info about the dream states, very quick 2 page induction technique, and then the meat of the book about what to do once your lucid.

      I have also been re-reading ETWOLD to give my brain some other bits to digest in the background.

      I will definitely report back on the web series. Its 4 weeks long with two 1 hours lectures per week, a long with reading material and course instruction. You also get access to a class message board where you can directly speak and ask question to Rinpoche. So it should be a good one.

      Quote Originally Posted by fogelbise View Post
      Welcome Rendar! When I read your original post here with your experiences I thought of the same idea as FryingMan (what an excellent, thorough post FM!), namely to "rehearse your 'I'm dreaming!' ritual/moment while awake." The only thing I would like to add to that is that before visualizing that moment and then moving on to your goals (both very helpful), you might also want to try simulating an RC that is indicating that you are in dream (indicating that you are in a dream while asleep in bed, with none of the limitations that we tend to experience while dreaming in the waking world, to borrow ideas from dream yoga.)

      Some ways that I like to simulate RC's to show that I am dreaming include lifting myself up on my toes while looking up which can give the sensation of beginning to float off of the ground, especially if you have a ceiling nearby that you can feel yourself approaching (even if every so slightly) as you lift up onto your toes. Recently I was looking at clouds just above the horizon in the moonlight that were going away from me and thus appeared to be going down towards the horizon, which also simulated the feeling of me floating up not unlike stationary motion simulators like you find in some arcades. Another simulation I use is to take a finger from one hand and stick it out under my other hand to give the look of having 6 fingers. In a dream the extra or odd finger(s) are part of the hand. You can also simulate the finger poking through your palm if you hold you palm at the right angle. The idea with the simulation is to invoke more genuine feelings of "wow, this really does feel like a dream." When you are in a sleeping dream, the float will be way more obvious and perhaps you will feel some excitement upon thinking about the difference, but either way I think the most important thing for you is to seize the moment like FM said through a "just became lucid" ritual. There are so many fun, creative, and inspiring things that you can do when lucid dreaming.

      Let us know if anything didn't make sense.
      I like this idea of simulating a RC that proves your dreaming in the waking world. This goes along with Dream Yoga in recognizing that everything is a dream. I will be implementing these ideas as well.

    6. #6
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      Yes, when you think of a moment you experienced just minutes before it can feel very fleeting and very dreamlike. It can lead you to the feeling, and at some point the understanding, that every moment is a dream.
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      I just awoke from a very clear and vivid dream about laying in the bed I had as a teenager at my parents house many years ago. I was dreaming about laying in that bed in the middle of the night and trying to practice WILD. It wasn't working so I gave up and rolled over to goto sleep. But when I rolled over I woke up an was back in my real bed. I honestly thought this must be a dream or FA, so did a reality check and it passed. So now it's 4:40am, so I'm going to try WBTB.

      Just found it interesting I'm now starting to dream about trying to LD, and I'm waking up almost every time fully expecting to be in a FA or dream. So it feels like progress of some sort is happening.

      Will report back and edit this comment in the morning about my WBTB experience.

      UPDATE: well WBTB didn't go to well. I stayed up for 30 minutes. I went to the restroom, got a drink of water, and wrote in my dream journal. Then read a few recent entries in my journal and laid back down.

      I was very relaxed and my body went into SP fairly quickly. My whole body was vibrating and could hear a metallic electric sound filling my ears. However I was not seeing any hypnagogic imagery. I laid like this for almost 45 minutes without any images or dreams forming. Then I was stuck for about another 40 minutes wide awake but stuck in sleep paralysis, which is never fun. When I was able to move again I did a RC just to make sure and it passed. I could never fall back asleep so just got up and started my day.

      In other news, I have been very excited about taking the month long webinar Dream Yoga course from Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche. And things just took an even more exciting turn, I just found he is also giving a free 2 hours lecture less than 30 minutes from my house the week after my webinar classes end. So I will be able to meet him in person, ask some questions face to face, and get a direct in person dream yoga teaching from him as well. I know it seems like pure coincidence, but I feel all this is connected somehow.
      Last edited by Rendar1970; 08-22-2016 at 06:26 PM.
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    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rendar1970 View Post
      I have read both Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep and Holecek's newest book. Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep has been my guide book for most of this journey so far. While I did really enjoy Holeceks book, I found meat of the book was about dreams in general, a very very small section on the actual techniques, and then the meat of the book was about what to do once you are there. Unfortunately it seems this is a pattern in almost ever book about Dream Yoga or LD. Lots of science info about the dream states, very quick 2 page induction technique, and then the meat of the book about what to do once your lucid.
      Well the bulk of dream yoga (or any yoga) is in the preparatory exercises. IMO the Holecek book has a good number of these, as compared to TYoDaS. Holecek spends a full chapter on the (critical) relationship between mindfulness and lucidity, which I think motivates the practices nicely.

      I think that most serious practitioners realize it's all about mindset, not "discovering a new technique." And given that Holecek's book is mostly about mind and awareness, I think that's a spot-on orientation to take.
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      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rendar1970 View Post
      Just found it interesting I'm now starting to dream about trying to LD, and I'm waking up almost every time fully expecting to be in a FA or dream. So it feels like progress of some sort is happening.
      This is a very good sign that you are close I have found, from multiple student accounts!

      UPDATE: well WBTB didn't go to well.
      Not being able to get back to sleep is never fun. The good news is that you will find ways to minimize this, and while you are working through finding those way it is a good idea to save any methods that tend to keep you awake for weekend only, or anytime you don't need to get up for work, school etc. Once you feel like you can get to sleep fairly easily anytime, then you can mix in those methods weekdays if you want. Have you seen this? - http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...alysis-sp.html You might read through it and see what it may have in there for you and perhaps see if you experienced genuine sleep paralysis. There are supplemental links at the bottom of the post that are helpful also. Some people are able to transition into lucid dreams from SP, but that is not my area of expertise.
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      Not being able to get back to sleep is pretty common in LD practice (I know, I suffered a lot from it). A good thing to do is just try to relax and use that time productively: meditation, breath awareness, be completely content in just floating in relaxation. If your body/mind needs more sleep, you'll fall asleep again if you keep your mind and body still.
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      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

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      Well, it's been almost 8 months now of hardcore work to lucid dream without ever once getting lucid. It seems like the more I try the farther away I get. So I took a break. Now that I've started up again it's right back to feeling like nothing works. I got into this all excited and full of confidence. But 8 months with no progress, no luck, no lucid dreams.

      I'm starting to think something is wrong with me. I think all the authors who say "anyone can lucid dream" is wrong. Just like some people can be born with a natural talent to LD, I'm pretty sure now that I was born with the ability to never LD.

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      Hi Rendar1970,
      It certainly can be frustrating to want something and work for it for a long time, and not be seeing the results you want to see. In your opening message in your workbook here, you wrote that very frequently you notice that you are in a dream, and that sometimes you even do RCs and realize you're dreaming before losing lucidity. Does this still happen? Have you tried practicing a "getting lucid" ritual where you slow down, stop even, and work only on affirming your state and trying to boost lucidity? Have you set up some concrete lucid goals that you're really excited about doing?

      I wouldn't say that you never can LD... I agree with the authors who say anyone can do it. From what I've read about your experiences, you can, and you do get lucid, it's just a matter of practicing to grasp that little lucid flame and fanning it into stronger lucidity in the dream state. Maybe take some comfort in the fact that some people (like the famous Hukif) who can't get lucid despite trying hard for YEARS...but then all of a sudden something changes, and all their strong fundamentals work (awareness, reflection, memory) comes together and they're lucid a lot. You *are* getting lucid, it's just a matter (maybe not a small one but it's that last step) of learning to hold it longer.
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      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    13. #13
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      Something else that has helped me a lot in overcoming dry times is to re-read the foundational literature. ETWOLD, TYoDaS (Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep), Holecek, whatever literature you've found most inspirational in the past. I find going over these books again after a months or years away, I always find new things or rediscover things I had missed before.
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      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

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      Quote Originally Posted by FryingMan View Post
      Hi Rendar1970,
      It certainly can be frustrating to want something and work for it for a long time, and not be seeing the results you want to see. In your opening message in your workbook here, you wrote that very frequently you notice that you are in a dream, and that sometimes you even do RCs and realize you're dreaming before losing lucidity. Does this still happen? Have you tried practicing a "getting lucid" ritual where you slow down, stop even, and work only on affirming your state and trying to boost lucidity? Have you set up some concrete lucid goals that you're really excited about doing?

      I wouldn't say that you never can LD... I agree with the authors who say anyone can do it. From what I've read about your experiences, you can, and you do get lucid, it's just a matter of practicing to grasp that little lucid flame and fanning it into stronger lucidity in the dream state. Maybe take some comfort in the fact that some people (like the famous Hukif) who can't get lucid despite trying hard for YEARS...but then all of a sudden something changes, and all their strong fundamentals work (awareness, reflection, memory) comes together and they're lucid a lot. You *are* getting lucid, it's just a matter (maybe not a small one but it's that last step) of learning to hold it longer.
      I have been doing the "getting lucid" ritual practice like we talked earlier. I have tried "faking" an RC to show I was dreaming and practicing my ritual (I would do say a hand check but purposely stick a finger from my other hand inbetween two fingers so it would look like i had extra fingers).

      So far my dreaming experience has been the same as I described before. Either having very vivid dreams with lots of crazy scenarios and either just remaining ignorant to the fact im dreaming, or a few more times since my first post, realizing something was off, doing and RC, the RC failing, and instead of getting excited Im in a dream I just get instantly distracted by everything else going on.

      I just read Hukifs post since you mentioned him about Gravity RC's and a possible Gravity Induction Technique. Im going to give this a try. Since almost every night I get the feeling of being heavy and spinning and am very familiar with the feeling of REM muscle atonia, perhaps this might be the gateway for me. I havent given up, but its just a really hard line to walk. Especially coming from a Buddhist perspective. Its difficult to "WANT" to Lucid Dream without attachment, yet a strong desire is needed for it to happen so its kind of contradictory. Likewise when you put in the effort and dont see results, its hard to know how to direct those feelings in a positive way.

    15. #15
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      One other approach I wanted to recommend: really focus on how much you enjoy your very vivid dreams. Build really strong deep feelings of joy and accomplishment at your recall and these wonderful dreaming experiences. It is entirely possible that wanting a lot (and feeling conflicted about the wanting) and not achieving it has set up some sort of block. Building strong, completely positive emotions and a mindset around dreaming may be what remains to let you finally break through to the LDs you're desiring.

      As an anecdote, one night this year during a dry spell, I set intention as I went to sleep not for lucidity, but simply desiring with all my heart simply "to have beautiful dreams tonight," I ended up having a significant LD. There is something very real about the "letting go" effect. Whether it is because we're using up all of our "intention muscle" in the focused desire, leaving insufficient amounts for the dreaming periods of the night, or because we're setting up a subconscious equation of "non-lucid dreams equals failure," and experiencing "dreaming anxiety" as a result, this can also behave as a tough blocker. Perhaps try focusing on really exploring and recalling your dreams as you experience them, with joy, and setting hopeful affirmation that "I WILL get lucid, at the right moment, when I'm ready, and I'm really looking forward to that experience." Focus on building vividness as high as you can, bringing as much of "you" as you can into the dream state (and all experiences), and perhaps that will bring enough of you and your goals into the dream state and you'll maintain lucidity successfully.
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      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

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      Last night I did like you said. I didnt actively seek a LD, I just set an affirmation to enjoy the dream state and accept whatever comes. I have a few vivid dreams which were nice. As usual I woke up around 4am naturally. I didnt do an intentional WBTB but I did get up for about 20 minutes to use the bathroom and get a drink of water. When I laid back down I decided to play with the Gravity Induced Lucid Dream technique. Not really so much expecting to LD, but just to experience it and relax myself. After a few minutes It felt like body weighed 20x more than normal. Then I started feeling like I was spinning a bit, almost like down a drain. Then suddenly it felt like I was in the center of a cyclone and then instantly like I was floating and lost all sensation of my body. The technique stated if you reach that point, your in, and all you need to do is visualize a scene you wanted to enter, and then open your eyes. Well I visualized a scene in great detail, opened my eyes, and just saw pure blackness, not even my room. So I closed my eyes again, re visualized the room, opened my eyes, and was in my bedroom. Did an RC, and say I was actually in my bedroom, no FA.

      So I wasnt trying for an LD, but seems I got close to one anyways. I think this Gravity Induced Lucid Dream technique may work out really good for me, especially if I continue along the route of Dream Yoga and all day awareness to it as well.

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      Sounds like you got really close. I'm not much of one for WILD, I've experienced what you mentioned, getting the REM Atonia sensations but not entering a visual dream. If you keep up the positive affirmations, not abandoning LDing, but not demanding LDs, and consistently cultivate a thankful, happy attitude towards dreaming, I think you'll make progress towards LDs.
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      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    18. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by FryingMan View Post
      One other approach I wanted to recommend: really focus on how much you enjoy your very vivid dreams. Build really strong deep feelings of joy and accomplishment at your recall and these wonderful dreaming experiences. It is entirely possible that wanting a lot (and feeling conflicted about the wanting) and not achieving it has set up some sort of block. Building strong, completely positive emotions and a mindset around dreaming may be what remains to let you finally break through to the LDs you're desiring.

      As an anecdote, one night this year during a dry spell, I set intention as I went to sleep not for lucidity, but simply desiring with all my heart simply "to have beautiful dreams tonight," I ended up having a significant LD. There is something very real about the "letting go" effect. Whether it is because we're using up all of our "intention muscle" in the focused desire, leaving insufficient amounts for the dreaming periods of the night, or because we're setting up a subconscious equation of "non-lucid dreams equals failure," and experiencing "dreaming anxiety" as a result, this can also behave as a tough blocker. Perhaps try focusing on really exploring and recalling your dreams as you experience them, with joy, and setting hopeful affirmation that "I WILL get lucid, at the right moment, when I'm ready, and I'm really looking forward to that experience." Focus on building vividness as high as you can, bringing as much of "you" as you can into the dream state (and all experiences), and perhaps that will bring enough of you and your goals into the dream state and you'll maintain lucidity successfully.
      Golden advice as usual FryingMan!! The DILD students & myself are very lucky you are here!! (I will be a little more absent than usual for the next week or so but will still check in).

      Quote Originally Posted by Rendar1970 View Post
      Last night I did like you said. I didnt actively seek a LD, I just set an affirmation to enjoy the dream state and accept whatever comes. I have a few vivid dreams which were nice. As usual I woke up around 4am naturally. I didnt do an intentional WBTB but I did get up for about 20 minutes to use the bathroom and get a drink of water. When I laid back down I decided to play with the Gravity Induced Lucid Dream technique. Not really so much expecting to LD, but just to experience it and relax myself. After a few minutes It felt like body weighed 20x more than normal. Then I started feeling like I was spinning a bit, almost like down a drain. Then suddenly it felt like I was in the center of a cyclone and then instantly like I was floating and lost all sensation of my body. The technique stated if you reach that point, your in, and all you need to do is visualize a scene you wanted to enter, and then open your eyes. Well I visualized a scene in great detail, opened my eyes, and just saw pure blackness, not even my room. So I closed my eyes again, re visualized the room, opened my eyes, and was in my bedroom. Did an RC, and say I was actually in my bedroom, no FA.

      So I wasnt trying for an LD, but seems I got close to one anyways. I think this Gravity Induced Lucid Dream technique may work out really good for me, especially if I continue along the route of Dream Yoga and all day awareness to it as well.
      I think you might have been in the dream when you were in the blackness and either woke yourself up (or possibly ended up in an FA where the RC erroneously indicated you were awake…try to have a 2-3 different RC's you can do to be sure…many WILDs for many people will end up in a bedroom dream scene after all of the crazy sensations.) Instead of closing you eyes next time, try wading through the darkness patiently reminding yourself that you are dreaming and wait for the scene to form. Either way, that was nice progress!

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      Well I guess I cant say Ive yet to Lucid Dream anymore, lol. Got completely Lucid in a dream last night!

      Shortly after 2:30am I woke up naturally. Took me a bit longer to just roll over and fall asleep than usual. So just started doing a body awareness meditation, purely for the sake of relaxing and falling asleep. Next thing I know Im being chased by some crazy screaming ghost thing. Im fighting it, throwing stuff at it, nothing is working, so I run outside to go to my garage. Now this is the part that cracks me up. Being chased by a crazy ghost isnt not what makes me go "huh, maybe im dreaming". My "ah HA!" moment is when I went in the garage, the garage door didnt go up on a track like normally, it was like a sliding door that pulled apart horizontally. This made me instantly Lucid, the ghost thing froze in place, I did 2 RC's, confirmed I was dreaming. My first goal was just simply fly, something easy and common. Well I knelt down, jumped off and shot off like superman. Only lasted about 2 minutes after that. But it was AMAZING!
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      Congrats! I knew you were close!

      Your observation about what caused your lucidity isn't all that strange. When we're caught amidst the lizard-brain's "flght or flight" response, it's really hard to engage higher level thinking. Overcoming that response is possible. Something mundane but still well-known to you, like your garage door, not involving any strong emotional or fear reaction, is much more likely to give you a useful nudge towards lucidity.

      It is possible to overcome the shock/fear response. One time in a dream I was holding a doll in my hands and running panicked down a hallway holding the thing right up in my face and expecting it at any time to transform into some horrible nightmare figure. Then I realized that I can choose my reaction, and that so doing would put me in control of the fear and eliminate it, and I got lucid a few moments after that. I also used to have dreams where close family members had freaky nightmare eyes (all whites, no iris, with a tiny black pupil in the center), I don't get those any more, but a few times those shocked me into lucidity.
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      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    21. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rendar1970 View Post
      Well I guess I cant say Ive yet to Lucid Dream anymore, lol. Got completely Lucid in a dream last night!
      Awesome!! Congratulations Rendar!! To many more experiences to come!!
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      Well I didnt have any Lucids the last 2 nights, but did have some nice vivid dreams. But yesterday afternoon after doing some yard work I took a little nap, and sure enough had a short lucid. I could just be psyching myself up, but it really seems like now that Ive had one, my its easier to let go and just let them happen. Both Lucids I have had now seem a lot less like "I need to do xyz to MAKE them happen" and more like "Ive already done xyz, now just let it happen".
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rendar1970 View Post
      Yesterday afternoon after doing some yard work I took a little nap, and sure enough had a short lucid.

      Both Lucids I have had now seem a lot less like "I need to do xyz to MAKE them happen" and more like "Ive already done xyz, now just let it happen".
      Congrats on another lucid!

      I think that is a good way of doing it and that's how I do it myself as well. Day work, meditation, WBTB and then relax. "Iv done everything that usually gives me the best results, now all I have to do is wait. " Having done everything you think you need to do to get a lucid dream gives you a lot of confidence.
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      Well its been few days since the last lucid. Still having some nice very vivid dreams though, so no complaints. On Sunday I begin a month long Dream Yoga course taught by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche which is very exciting. And by pure luck the day after the course ends he's speaking at temple near my house in California, and I have a reserved spot to attend. So I will get to meet him and learn from him in person too. It has been said he frequently gives transmission at his lectures too, so fingers crossed.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Rendar1970 View Post
      Well I didnt have any Lucids the last 2 nights, but did have some nice vivid dreams. But yesterday afternoon after doing some yard work I took a little nap, and sure enough had a short lucid. I could just be psyching myself up, but it really seems like now that Ive had one, my its easier to let go and just let them happen. Both Lucids I have had now seem a lot less like "I need to do xyz to MAKE them happen" and more like "Ive already done xyz, now just let it happen".
      There is definitely something about putting in the day and night work and then letting go a little by not worrying (still putting in the work every day as much as you can). I would also not be disappointed though if you have to wait a week or so between LD's early in your practice. That is how it was for me but before long I was having them very regularly, so you can achieve that also, maybe even this early in your practice.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rendar1970 View Post
      Well its been few days since the last lucid. Still having some nice very vivid dreams though, so no complaints. On Sunday I begin a month long Dream Yoga course taught by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche which is very exciting. And by pure luck the day after the course ends he's speaking at temple near my house in California, and I have a reserved spot to attend. So I will get to meet him and learn from him in person too. It has been said he frequently gives transmission at his lectures too, so fingers crossed.
      We will be interested to hear how the month long course is going!

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