Thread: What Would You Do....

Originally Posted by tommo

And also the fact that she told guys "don't do that".
She's a stupid bitch basically.

Reading this made me bash my face in my desk.

Originally Posted by tommo

The point is, you shouldn't make guys feel like shit in front of thousands of people (sort of) for asking if you want to have sex.
It doesn't matter if he really wanted coffe and a chat or not.

I haven't watched the video so I have to ask, did she mention his name? If not, how did she "make him feel like shit in front of thousands of people?"

Originally Posted by tommo

She definitely does not have to tell the world though.

She doesn't have to but there's nothing wrong with doing so.

Originally Posted by tommo

And DEFINITELY should not be telling guys not to ask girls that.

Seriously...? She can say whatever the fuck she wants as long as she isn't hurting anyone (and she isn't). It's the same thing as you telling us what she shouldn't be saying.

Originally Posted by tommo

As if it's not hard enough already to ask girls out.

It isn't. I'm ridiculously shy but even I know it's just a matter of a simple hello, an introduction, and engaging conversation, and then a question. Hell, the engaging conversation isn't even needed in certain situations.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by stormcrow

I would be positively delighted if a random stranger showed interest me based on my physical appearance.

What does that have to do with her though?

Originally Posted by GuyCecil

I love how the Amazing Atheist complains about her making a mountain out of a molehill and wasting everyone's time with that casual one-minute mention, as he records this 14-minute insane rant.

I don't blame her for being uncomfortable and declining. It's just common sense to avoid drunkenly following people you met five seconds ago into their hotel room at four in the morning, whatever combination of men and women are involved.

This.

Originally Posted by GuyCecil

She WAS out of line to say that the guy just saw her as a piece of meat though.

And this.

Originally Posted by tommo

only real purpose in life.

lolpurpose

Except he said 'Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're a very interesting person, would you like to come to my room and chat over coffee.' Which implies he was familiar with her recent words and her standing on certain things.

Originally Posted by tommo

Our most basic desire is to fuck every mildly attractive woman we see.
We show enough restraint by going through the whole asking out ordeal.
She tells us "We shouldn't do that".

So yeah, she is telling us to suppress our emotions even more.
Some women would love that if they found him attractive, and they'd be like
"Fuck yes, show me your room, you spunk".
And technically, the more women someone asks for sex, the higher their chances of sex are.

So, to tell men to not do this is just fucking retarded, basically.

So let me get this straight: it is SO hard for you to not fuck every woman you see like you're entitled to them, so you present it as some kind of gift to them that you're able to show basic human restraint, and it hurts your entitled feelings SO badly when a woman rejects you or tells you that restraint is necessary? You make it seem as though you'd be a rapist if it weren't for laws and social construct, or that you have nothing else to do in life but have sex. Also, LOL at speaking for every man with "we". You perpetuate the "man-hating" stereotype that "all men just want sex, they only see women as objects".

I find it interesting that a lot of men spend so much time and energy insisting to everyone that they're too strong and manly (totally not gay) to have feelings, and then blame women for treating them that way.

I also agree with all of GavinGill's replies.

As far as being offended about strangers hitting on you (or at least showing interest in you): I actually wish that ever happened to me, I would take it as a compliment. I've even been cat called once and found it as a compliment. However, it's not always a compliment, like with sexual harrassment or stalking. Plus I don't speak for every woman.

I get it now! THANK YOU THREAD!

That's why having a genuine conversation of some sort with another person results in the more likely scenario of hanging out again. It's more natural and less out of left field- thus less creepy. In hindsight, this seems incredibly obvious. But there's an "idea" out there that simply asking someone out directly is the right way to do it. It can be, sure. But as with anything, it just depends on the situation and the person.

Oh man, and I'm seeing that this topic is getting heated. I have some things to say, but I'll save them for tomorrow. I just wanted to post this so if I start feeling lazy regarding my post tomorrow, I'll be more pressured to type it up.

Originally Posted by Tommo

No, it's not. It should be. But an overwhelming majority are man hating morons who pretty much ruin it for everyone who isn't.

Originally Posted by Tommo

Which is why I didn't do it. But I agree, so all you generalisers out there.... you look ignorant. K?

Sorry, how is "An overwhelming majority are man-hating morons" not a generalization?
You pretty much just copied down the textbook stereotype of a feminist and ran with it.
You must be joking.
Oh, my bad, you must personally know "an overwhelming majority" of feminists.
Wait. That doesn't make any sense. You really do look ignorant.

Originally Posted by Tommo

Yes, of course they do. They also have the right to then go tell people about the horror of such an act.
They also have a right to tell men how to act, as long as they also allow everyone else the right to criticise the fuck out of their views.

I agree.
What I don't agree with, just in my opinion, are the guys coming out of the woodwork calling her a "stupid bitch" or a "man hating moron" because of her opinion. That's not even a criticism. It has no logical basis, nothing to back it up. It's just rude. Of course they can call her whatever they want, but it seems almost pathetically ironic to me. Just because you have a freedom of speech to say whatever sexist, racist, idiotic thing you can think of doesn't mean you should. Again, it's called restraint. But obviously some people don't understand that concept. It's a free country.

Originally Posted by Tommo

Our most basic desire is to fuck every mildly attractive woman we see.
We show enough restraint by going through the whole asking out ordeal.
She tells us "We shouldn't do that".

So yeah, she is telling us to suppress our emotions even more.
Some women would love that if they found him attractive, and they'd be like
"Fuck yes, show me your room, you spunk".
And technically, the more women someone asks for sex, the higher their chances of sex are.

So, to tell men to not do this is just fucking retarded, basically.

What do you want women to do? Bow at your feet because you didn't rape them?
Sure, some women are nymphomaniacs, but many are going think you're a disgusting pig for hitting on everything with tits and a pulse.

Is that all you want out of a woman? Sex?
If so, I'm sorry. That's really very sad.
Maybe you haven't realized this yet-- but women are human beings, too.
They have thoughts, dreams and even an IQ that could be greater than your own.

You're allowed to do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.
But if you were wise you would treat women with the same respect you'd treat any man or teacher or parent and actually acknowledge that they have more use than to just fulfill your every sexual whim.

Right after she talks about the elevator incident, she mentions a video where everyone "lays their misogyny out"... is it related to this incident?

Originally Posted by Savy

Sorry, how is "An overwhelming majority are man-hating morons" not a generalization?
You pretty much just copied down the textbook stereotype of a feminist and ran with it.
You must be joking.
Oh, my bad, you must personally know "an overwhelming majority" of feminists.
Wait. That doesn't make any sense. You really do look ignorant.

Based on observation, this is true. It's not a generalisation unless I'm saying "ALL FEMINISTS ARE ____"
or "ALL ASIANS ARE ____"
etc.

So you look ignorant coz you don't even know wtf you're talking about.

Originally Posted by Savy

I agree.
What I don't agree with, just in my opinion, are the guys coming out of the woodwork calling her a "stupid bitch" or a "man hating moron" because of her opinion. That's not even a criticism. It has no logical basis, nothing to back it up. It's just rude. Of course they can call her whatever they want, but it seems almost pathetically ironic to me. Just because you have a freedom of speech to say whatever sexist, racist, idiotic thing you can think of doesn't mean you should. Again, it's called restraint. But obviously some people don't understand that concept. It's a free country.

Yeah, like the stupid bitch who posted this video should have had restraint.
It's a two way street man. You can't tell people to have restraint, and not be telling her to as well.

Originally Posted by Savy

What do you want women to do? Bow at your feet because you didn't rape them?
Sure, some women are nymphomaniacs, but many are going think you're a disgusting pig for hitting on everything with tits and a pulse.

I never said I want something for not raping women.
Men on the whole should get a bit of courtesy though.
Mostly, we do. And women do as well.
It makes me mad when someone upsets this and decides
we don't even have the right to ask women out anymore.

If you want to see what an animal's true nature is like,
deny them the opportunity of getting sex.

If women actually listened to this moron, men would be raping left,
right and center.

I'm not saying all of them would. Many would.
We are animals, after all.

Originally Posted by Savy

Is that all you want out of a woman? Sex?

This is where you go back in to your emotional and irrational diatribe.
I never said that.

Originally Posted by Savy

Maybe you haven't realized this yet-- but women are human beings, too.
They have thoughts, dreams and even an IQ that could be greater than your own.

No one has an IQ greater than mine.

Originally Posted by Savy

You're allowed to do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.
But if you were wise you would treat women with the same respect you'd treat any man or teacher or parent and actually acknowledge that they have more use than to just fulfill your every sexual whim.

I treat women with more respect than men.

Originally Posted by tommo

Based on observation, this is true. It's not a generalisation unless I'm saying "ALL FEMINISTS ARE ____"
or "ALL ASIANS ARE ____"
etc.

But you said "most are", and I'm pretty sure you don't know "most" feminists from observation.

Yeah, like the stupid bitch who posted this video should have had restraint.
It's a two way street man. You can't tell people to have restraint, and not be telling her to as well.

So this "stupid bitch" shouldn't be allowed to complain about creepy guys who ask them to join them in their private hotel room, as a perfect stranger? She should just shut up and let other people voice their opinions about her, which are totally unwarranted and off base? After all, she was pretty calm, collected and subtle in her whole video, and everyone's screaming belittling obscenities at her as if she was screaming in her video that all men are worthless scum that deserve castration. Again, I don't get why what she suggested is such an imposition to men worthy of belittling her as a "stupid bitch". I think the proper way to ask a girl out is to ask her for coffee at a real daytime/evening hour, in a public coffee shop. How can someone not understand how creepy the situation is and how it could be avoided by a more reasonable approach.

Originally Posted by Savy

I'm saying she has a right to feel however she likes, and that people getting mad at her just because she finds a situation like that awkward and doesn't want to go up to his room, even if they're not necessarily going to have sex, is absurd.

I'm still wondering who all these 'people' are. None of them have posted in this thread.

they're over-reacting to a woman expressing her own freedom of speech

Whatever this means, no, they're reacting to what she said... why are you bringing freedom of speech into this? :/

Deery, the fact that she said it calmly is the worst thing. It shows she actually believes it. Rather than screaming to try and convince herself of it.

And that's just sad.

I'm going to post a video, that I think you should watch. I wasn't going to take part in this conversation in the first place.
When I watched TAA's video, I thought about making a thread and realised it was pointless and stupid and I'd just be helping
to blow this thing out of proportion. Then I saw this thread that you had made. And I thought I could maybe talk some
sense in to you. I couldn't care less about this girl telling guys not to ask girls out when they don't know them.

Originally Posted by Xei

I'm still wondering who all these 'people' are. None of them have posted in this thread.

Xei, if you read the YouTube comments under the video, video responses related, etc, you'll see who's "they" we're talking about and why I posted this in the first place. Even Richard Dawkins has commented on this video and they're calling it "Elevatorgate" for some strange reason.

Originally Posted by tommo

Deery, the fact that she said it calmly is the worst thing. It shows she actually believes it. Rather than screaming to try and convince herself of it.

And that's just sad.

Wow... What exactly is so sad and horrible that she believes?

I'm going to post a video, that I think you should watch. I wasn't going to take part in this conversation in the first place.
When I watched TAA's video, I thought about making a thread and realised it was pointless and stupid and I'd just be helping
to blow this thing out of proportion. Then I saw this thread that you had made. And I thought I could maybe talk some
sense in to you.

That's a nice video, and I agree that laughing at chopping a guy's dick off for any reason, especially for simply filing a divorce, is wrong. But how in the hell is it relevant to anything in this thread?

Acknowledging sexism against men doesn't erase sexism against women. And I'm not a "man hater" for questioning the response to the elevator video. Are you trying to accuse me of being a man hater?

Also, I get conflicting claims about the statistics of rape. It's usually anti-feminists who claim that most rape accusations are false, and then I get claims that most rapes are actually under reported.

I couldn't care less about this girl telling guys not to ask girls out when they don't know them.

Wtf? Then what else is this whole entire thing about? Why would you insult and attack this girl, act like it's such an imposition for her to calmly suggest how not to ask a girl out (which is literally all the "offending" material was, unless I'm watching a different video) as if she wants to take away men's rights to ask women out, and then claim you don't care about the "frightening" things she believes? I really don't know what you're talking about anymore. Please enlighten me.

Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer

Acknowledging sexism against men doesn't erase sexism against women. And I'm not a "man hater" for questioning the response to the elevator video. Are you trying to accuse me of being a man hater?

Yes.

Well.... I'm not accusing you, I'm just pointing it out.

The video is relevant because she is showing people how
feminists end up fucking themselves.

Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer

Also, I get conflicting claims about the statistics of rape. It's usually anti-feminists who claim that most rape accusations are false, and then I get claims that most rapes are actually under reported.

I read this too, and saw a video about it a while ago.
They had some fucking ridiculous claim about the percentage of unreported rapes.
First of all, how the fuck would you know the rapes happened, if they're not reported?
Also the statistic I saw, I can't remember exactly what it was, but it basically led to the conclusion that over 90% of women are raped.
Most of the people commenting on the video didn't actually bother to think AT ALL about the statistics being presented.

Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer

Wtf? Then what else is this whole entire thing about? Why would you insult and attack this girl, act like it's such an imposition for her to calmly suggest how not to ask a girl out (which is literally all the "offending" material was, unless I'm watching a different video) as if she wants to take away men's rights to ask women out, and then claim you don't care about the "frightening" things she believes? I really don't know what you're talking about anymore. Please enlighten me.

I don't care. I was just trying to show you how you are wrong.
I couldn't care less about her situation. I care about the underlying causes.
Your hatred of men is based on the same things.
Maybe not hatred, but fear of being dominated by men.

Accept, free coffee!

Originally Posted by deerythedeer

xei, if you read the youtube comments under the video, video responses related, etc, you'll see who's "they" we're talking about and why i posted this in the first place.

yhbt

I unsubscribed from Terroja a few months ago because his videos seemed to be getting thoughtless, so thanks for posting that TheAmazingAthteist video. Maybe I'll resubscribe.

Perhaps the guy in the elevator gets off to the thought of raping feminists, and his intention was to rape her. Or maybe he was fascinated by the panel and intended to spend a couple hours discussing feminism with her further. There are many intentions he could have had, and it was likely somewhere between the extremes. Her mistake was in assuming that he was demeaning her in his mind in some way, when she really has no way of knowing. And even if he was, it isn't a big deal. As she said, they had just left a bar. The guy was likely drunk. Maybe he woke up the next day with a terrible hangover, thinking "oh my god, did I just ask that woman to come back to my room for coffee at 4am?"

About a side matter brought up, there's nothing wrong with liking a woman based on her looks, with appearance causing the initial attraction. That is usually how attraction begins. But there is also nothing wrong with a woman not wanting to begin a relationship that way, and finding it distasteful. I'd personally be one of those women. A few days ago I was asked out by a customer at the place I work for 'drinks'. He was nice, but I was immediately repulsed by him. I do not like when men claim to like me based on my appearance. On a vain level, it makes me feel good, it boosts my ego, but on a deeper level I suppose it makes me feel a bit insulted and separate, like if I were to ever be in an actual relationship with that person, I would never really know if he liked me for my mind and personality at all.

I think that's a bit harsh. Well, it depends. Did he actually say anything? If he just said 'I like you because you're hot' and nothing else then fair enough, but if he talks about you personally as well then I wouldn't fault that. In fact you can see that as a mark of honesty. People who pretend that physical attraction is not a factor are basically liars. We are all human and being attracted to somebody on the basis of how they look is unavoidable and not wrong; though this being the sole, or most important basis, is not good.

Originally Posted by Dianeva

I unsubscribed from Terroja a few months ago because his videos seemed to be getting thoughtless, so thanks for posting that TheAmazingAthteist video. Maybe I'll resubscribe.

Yeah I stopped watching his videos for ages. But he's gotten a bit better.

Originally Posted by Xei

I think that's a bit harsh. Well, it depends. Did he actually say anything? If he just said 'I like you because you're hot' and nothing else then fair enough, but if he talks about you personally as well then I wouldn't fault that. In fact you can see that as a mark of honesty. People who pretend that physical attraction is not a factor are basically liars. We are all human and being attracted to somebody on the basis of how they look is unavoidable and not wrong; though this being the sole, or most important basis, is not good.

This.
Even if he "got to know you" a little better first. He could still just be going along with the whole dating routine just to get to the sex with a hot woman part.

inb4 - SHE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DENY GOING OUT WITH THE GUY.

Wow, this situation is crazy. In my personal experience, it does seem like feminism has given some women an excuse to try and make men worth less rather than women equal, I dont consider them true feminists though.

What I take from this video and the reactions to it is this. That more and more men (Im assuming most of those youtube comments are men) are feeling threatened by woman who pretend to be feminists that are trying rise above men (note rise above, not be equal with) and thus these extreme reactions to a woman telling men how to act.

Also, yes, to me the idea of being offended by someone finding you attractive is just silly, its a perfectly normal human emotion, and for some reason I've never heard of a woman denouncing another woman for finding a guy attractive and approaching him.

@Xei, @tommo, @tkdyo
I could also say that it's natural for me to find it distasteful to begin a relationship based on appearance. I'm not saying it's wrong for a guy to ask someone out for that reason. I realize it's common, and most people have no problem with it, but I still don't like it. The idea of it bothers me in a way just as natural as a man being initially infatuated with a woman based on her appearance.
(He had never met me before and we had barely exchanged a few words. I would not have said yes anyway because I have a boyfriend, and btw I was anything but harsh. My sole concern at the time was to try not be make him feel bad).

Sorry Dian I didnt mean for you to think I was picking on you xD, my comment wasnt meant towards your opinion specifically, more the general idea of it all. You have the right to feel whatever way you want about it

I'm stunned at the complete lack of logical reasoning in this thread. Whether or not you are a "man-hater" is beside the point, all I've been seeing thus far from the likes of DeeryTheDeer and Savy are baseless accusations of attacks or insults on them as being such or being sexist. Protip: don't get offended over name calling and then go and do it yourself. Especially when name calling hasn't even taken place. Hypocrisy tends to aid in the dissolution of your point. The fact that tommo has been mentioning sex so much isn't because he views women as objects or because he believes women are there solely for his sexual pleasure. It's because sex plays a major role in the continuation of the human race. Whether or not you like how people go about getting it is beside the point (no one here is supporting rape), he's simply acknowledging the fact that it exists and is important, especially as a biological imperative (read: it's instinct).

As far as this woman's response, I am perfectly fine with her having the right to say no, everyone should have that right. I'm also perfectly fine with her being able to post a video about it on the internet. I'm even okay with her telling other men what to do. What I'm not okay with is her or her feminist friend's freaking the fuck out because someone else exercises their right to free speech in protest (of her telling men what (not) to do). My personal opinion on her telling men not to do that? I think it's wrong. Why? Well, maybe because he was actually interested in her as a human being. I hear everyone making mention of the coffee line, but everyone (with the exception of a few) seems to forget that, before that, he said, "Don't take this the wrong way, but I find you very interesting." Nobody truly knows what this guy wanted from her. However, he was polite in his way of expressing interest and/or attraction to her, and all he got in return was criticism for doing it in that way. Would she have preferred if he had said, "Hey, wanna fuck?" instead? What would qualify as good enough when it comes to trying to ask a girl out? Unless you want men to be assholes about it, I suggest you start letting men know that this behaviour is much more acceptable. If guys just get negative feedback from going about it that way, then why would they continue to do it (that is to say, be polite)? And expecting men or even women for that matter not to express interest in someone at all is beyond stupid. Anyone that suggests this needs to see a counselor.

Does anybody else wish feminists would also call themselves masculinists? I find the fact that they don't to be a bit sexist...

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

Does anybody else wish feminists would also call themselves masculinists? I find the fact that they don't to be a bit sexist...

Because it's usually women who are demeaned, not men. A better term might be 'gender equality activist' or something.

Originally Posted by Dianeva

Because it's usually women who are demeaned, not men. A better term might be 'gender equality activist' or something.

Exactly. Women have actually been second class citizens historically, worldwide, not men.