Thread: Occupy Dreamviews

"lecturing" would fall under freedom of speech

the most they could do if they were "lecturing" was to be kicked out of the business place, as managers have that right. but to arrest? its still against constitutional rights

They were arrested because they refused to leave. I support the collective bank closing protests but you have to expect this.

I closed my account today. I just told the teller I was closing my account. When he asked why, I said because Wells Fargo practiced predatory lending and I didn't agree with the ethics of the bank. He said pretty much all banks do that and I said that's why I'm switching to a credit union, and by the way, that's no excuse. Then I took my money and left.

Originally Posted by juroara

"lecturing" would fall under freedom of speech

I agree, however the lecturing included being disruptive and disorderly and when requested to leave by management they became belligerent, thus breaking the law. It's unfortunate how it all went down but they were rightfully arrested under law.

My thing is this, if any bank is charging fee's that you do not want why keep banking there? Why did they wait until Occupy Wall Street to close their account? I attended a University and received student loans, I commuted to save money. After graduating I worked crap jobs until something in my field of expertise became available to pay the loans back. Most of these people are probably living well beyond their means. The logical steps would be to not take more than half your expected first years salary out in student loans. For some strange reason some people think that their take home income right after college is going to be 6 figures plus.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

I agree, however the lecturing included being disruptive and disorderly and when requested to leave by management they became belligerent, thus breaking the law. It's unfortunate how it all went down but they were rightfully arrested under law.

No, they didn't refuse to leave, they were locked inside: The NYC Citibank Arrests, According To the OWS Videographer The woman in the video wasn't even inside, the cops dragged her inside.

And the students have no control over how much they take out, how can you suggest they don't take out more than half their expected salary in loans? The price of college is fixed. My friend got a masters degree to be a teacher, she currently makes about $35,000/yr. She has $50,000 in loans. That's how much a masters degree costs, and a masters is required by law to do her job. You can't haggle the cost of college, it's not a used car. She did commute to save money.

And aren't you a cop? Don't you make like $30,000 a year? Aren't you one round of layoffs away form being on the street with no pension? The last round of budget cuts in NYC let 3,500 honest, blue collar policemen go, while increasing the wage of Tony Bolonga and those who let him off the hook with just a loss of some vacation time.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

The woman in the video wasn't even inside, the cops dragged her inside.

Forgotten about this bit. The woman was inside bank. If you listen to the video, the undercover cop is clearly stating to her that "you were inside" she said "I'm a customer". She didn't deny it because she was in there. The undercover more than likely witnessed her in there and it was clearly obvious that she was one of the members of that group.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

Forgotten about this bit. The woman was inside bank. If you listen to the video, the undercover cop is clearly stating to her that "you were inside" she said "I'm a customer". She didn't deny it because she was in there. The undercover more than likely witnessed her in there and it was clearly obvious that she was one of the members of that group.

So you do think that being inside a bank to close your account is illegal? She obviously wasn't in there for very long seeing that she was outside, and that the bank doors had been locked before the police showed up. If the Citi manager told her to leave, and she did, what is the charge? If Citi really thought they did something wrong, they would obligee the demands for the security tapes, that they seem so unwilling to give up. The entire bank is wired with security cameras as all banks are, if Citi shows them, I'll say you were right, but since they are hiding them, you are in the wrong. Regardless of what you think, in America, citizens are innocent until proven guilty, there is a video of police dragging her into the bank, Citi is yet to show the video that shows they were being disruptive.

This isn't a case of a cops word vs a protesters word, its a cops word vs a video. I heard no where in there that she was under arrest, they simply picked her up and dragged her into the building, that's not an arrest, that's kidnapping.

I don't think very many people support free education, it's the unfair cost and interest rates that are being protested. A good education in the USA costs about $30,000. A good education in England is set at about 4000 pounds, and there is a government cap on how much they can charge. The schools aren't necessarily any better here, Oxford is considered one of the top schools in the world.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

I don't think very many people support free education, it's the unfair cost and interest rates that are being protested. A good education in the USA costs about $30,000. A good education in England is set at about 4000 pounds, and there is a government cap on how much they can charge. The schools aren't necessarily any better here, Oxford is considered one of the top schools in the world.

I support free education. To scare off the "no free lunchers" I'll call it 100% subsidized education. It think its integral to the ladder of success (and the competitive edge of the society) that absolutely anyone has access to a complete education. I think it's irresponsible to consider any other option.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

I support free education. To scare off the "no free lunchers" I'll call it 100% subsidized education. It think its integral to the ladder of success (and the competitive edge of the society) that absolutely anyone has access to a complete education. I think it's irresponsible to consider any other option.

I have an idea!

Rather than banks charging interest and punishing human beings for wanting education and a better quality of life - banks should INVEST into the future careers of students. They pay for the education, and get a tiny percentage of the profit once the student actually lands a job. Student doesn't land a job - banks lose. This would create the incentive to keep jobs in america. Just an idea.

Corporate America Explained through Calvin and Hobbes panel.

Money does not equal quality.

Plenty of students will tell you that their courses at a community college ($500 a semester avg.) was the same quality as a university ($2000 - $5000 a semester right?). I've heard this in san antonio, and now I'm hearing it in arlington. Unfortunately several degrees just aren't offered at the community college, though it would save students thousands.

My thing is this, if any bank is charging fee's that you do not want why keep banking there? Why did they wait until Occupy Wall Street to close their account? I attended a University and received student loans, I commuted to save money. After graduating I worked crap jobs until something in my field of expertise became available to pay the loans back. Most of these people are probably living well beyond their means. The logical steps would be to not take more than half your expected first years salary out in student loans. For some strange reason some people think that their take home income right after college is going to be 6 figures plus.

1. Americans are asleep. Most are not aware of half the things we talk about here on this forum. Occupy wallstreet is waking people up, making them realize that what they once excepted as normal is completely unacceptable
2. Crap jobs are one of those unacceptable things. If you work full time, why should you be in poverty? Min. wage is a crime. Every job should provide a living wage.
3. You are lucky to get a job that you studied for. Part of the reason why students and graduates are outraged is because their field of expertise has been taken over seas, or is simply not hiring anymore. This happened to my moms best friend. She got her bachelor in computer science, thousands in debt, and the job went to india.
4. No one is angry because of the short term situation of their life. Why should it take more than a mortal life time to pay back student loans? My sister is forced to take private loans with up to 20% interest to continue her architecture degree. Why? Because she ran out of federal loans. She is estimated to be in at least 70k debt when she gets her bachelor. And that's the nicer number figure, it might even go up to 100k because her private loans are going to kick in while she is in school!! And that figure doesn't even account for her masters, which she needs to be a certified architect. With interest rates, its virtually impossible for her to ever pay off her student loans. She asked certified architects how do they do it.

They said they just pay the interest, and will never actually pay off their student loans!

We've accepted this as the status quo. Do you?

It seems to me a moral crime to have students indebted to banks for decades. The same strategy was used to create slaves in rome. Why should banks profit off education? Why should any student be in debt for education? The thousands of dollars isn't even going into the teachers pockets. No, teachers salaries are being cut. Others are just being fired. Even more, are not being hired.

How is it that education gets more expensive every year, but more and more professors are fired? It doesn't add up. Where is the money going? (NOT INTO EDUCATION THATS FOR SURE!)

Students and teachers are both being taken advantage off.

I feel like I've stepped into the "History of Economic Thought" time machine and ended up in 1920s Europe.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

No, they didn't refuse to leave, they were locked inside: The NYC Citibank Arrests, According To the OWS Videographer The woman in the video wasn't even inside, the cops dragged her inside.

It doesn't matter, what you fail to understand is that the crowd put the employees, customers and non-customers at a security risk. Remember this is not your ordinary everyday type business establishment. It's a freaking bank! The branch manager's number one responsibility from the time he/she opens the branch until the evening when the branch closes is the security of everyone within the bank. Anybody can walk into a branch and say they are customers. That’s why you have non-loitering laws, especially for bank branches. At some point the branch manager had a responsibility to end the nonsense and contact the authorities. He/She doesn't know these people personally and cannot downplay what anyone would be capable of. No matter how you try and twist it, you can't justify belligerence in an establishment like a bank. Now, I'm in no way saying that their intentions are wrong, what I am saying is that, the execution was wrong and they were arrested when arrest could have been completely avoided had they actually thought it out completely.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

And the students have no control over how much they take out, how can you suggest they don't take out more than half their expected salary in loans? The price of college is fixed.

The tuition for college is fixed but the loan isn't, was the point I was making.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

And aren't you a cop? Don't you make like $30,000 a year? Aren't you one round of layoffs away form being on the street with no pension?

I'm not in that branch of law enforcement.

Here's a video of a marine sergeant telling off the cops


And here's a video of two soldiers responding to Hannity's claims that the protesters are unamerican


Love the sign: 2nd time fighting for country, 1st time I knew my enemy

Interesting on the first video. I've never seen anyone wear service commendations on MCCUU's before. ? Let's give it a few days and see what information comes to the surface about this man.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

Interesting on the first video. I've never seen anyone wear service commendations on MCCUU's before. ? Let's give it a few days and see what information comes to the surface about this man.

His name is Sergeant Sharam Thomas. I didn't find his myspace though so he must be faking it.

love those marines lol

What if OWS was well-organized psychological operation? I'm just throwing that out there, take it how you want to.




You don't need to be completely convinced regarding the information in this video but it's very interesting nevertheless.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

What if OWS was well-organized psychological operation? I'm just throwing that out there, take it how you want to.




You don't need to be completely convinced regarding the information in this video but it's very interesting nevertheless.

LMAO

Does this guy have that condition where he can't recognize faces?

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

What if OWS was well-organized psychological operation? I'm just throwing that out there, take it how you want to.




You don't need to be completely convinced regarding the information in this video but it's very interesting nevertheless.

That video is total garbage, not a single person he showed was the same.

I could see OWS having some elements which are fabricated, but this guy seems real.

I don't get it. Why would they fake his chipped tooth? And why would they put "fake people" there?

No but trespassing, being disruptive and staging a demonstration private property is illegal.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

If Citi really thought they did something wrong, they would obligee the demands for the security tapes, that they seem so unwilling to give up. The entire bank is wired with security cameras as all banks are, if Citi shows them, I'll say you were right, but since they are hiding them, you are in the wrong.

There is online footage of what happened inside. Why didn't you bother to search for it? This video declares a different story where OWS protesters are disruptive and belligerent, are asked to get the hell off the banks private property, are asked to turn off video recordings, where they refused and then of course treated like the common trespasser and arrested by local authorities.



I'm sorry but these clowns are completely out of life. This is a place where people work You do not stage a protest inside of a bank, have they lost their minds?? The bank is private property they have every right to have them thrown out and/or arrested.

Here's Citibank's Statement

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Regardless of what you think, in America, citizens are innocent until proven guilty, there is a video of police dragging her into the bank, Citi is yet to show the video that shows they were being disruptive.

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty that doesn't mean you cannot get arrested and detained by authorities. If you are suspect to a crime, authorities are granted power to arrest and question you under oath. The "presumption of innocence" is a legal right to citizens where the burden of proof lies completely on the prosecution who's duty is to retrieve enough compelling evidence to convince the trier of fact, who is ordered and restrained by law to cogitate only substantive evidence and testimony that is legally admissible in a court of law and in most cases lawfully obtained where the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

I heard no where in there that she was under arrest, they simply picked her up and dragged her into the building, that's not an arrest, that's kidnapping.

No, that's called detainment. She was suspect to a crime and was RIGHTFULLY detained.

Dude I believe you don't really think before you type and you talk just to be in disagreement with someone.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

Thanks for finding that, yes, if the manager told them to leave, then they were tresspassing. Where is the part where they were asked to leave and refused? I saw a bunch of employees watching, no one telling them to leave. You said they refused to turn off the cameras, where is the rest of the video? Even if the part where they were told to leave was cut out, why was the woman who actually did leave get dragged back inside to be arrested? Can you find a video of the woman who was dragged inside participating in the protest, and refusing to leave after being told to?

I'm sure a lot of them did do exactly that, but what about the one who was manhandled by the thug cop? She obviously left when she was asked to, or else she would have been locked inside. If the bank manager asked them to leave, it is implied that those who obliged will not be charged, with that implication, how is it legal to drag her back inside. That's a trap, there was no way for them to have been inside the bank (part of the protest or not) and not be arrested. You said she was being detained, isn't it more common practice to ask her to place her hands behind her back, instead of picking her up and dragging her inside?

To me, you just seem unwilling to admit that there is a small percentage of cops who are just plain assholes and get a kick out of asserting their authority. I'm sure you and the cops you work with are all honest, but do you really think all of you are? I notice you haven't made a peep in the thread where NYPD cops admitted to planting drugs on innocent people. I would think a cop, would have something to say there.

Either that or he thinks all African Americans look alike

Originally Posted by tommo

love those marines lol

Thanks!

And white people.

You can tell he's got a strong bias when he calls the protesters protecting HIS future a bunch of idiots. And he concludes they're going to cause a false flag operation...

My conclusion? He's a fucking crackpot.