Thread: Why do we think Lucifer is bad and God is good?

Good Guy Lucifer Meme

click above link, check out memes, think about it.

Fictional characters tend to be split into strict moral groups. Just the way we like our stories.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

Fictional characters tend to be split into strict moral groups. Just the way we like our stories.

That's irrelevant for this thread, the meme is celebrating the hypocrisy of regarding Satan as evil in the christian worldview when, by all accounts, he's open minded, thoughtful, helpful and responsible.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

That's irrelevant for this thread

Deal with it nerd

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

That's irrelevant for this thread, the meme is celebrating the hypocrisy of regarding Satan as evil in the christian worldview when, by all accounts, he's open minded, thoughtful, helpful and responsible.

thank you for responding to the fool above. i was having a serious facepalm moment when i read the fucking stupid off topic post he made. wow, i hope he gets cancer.

Originally Posted by poopman

thank you for responding to the fool above. i was having a serious facepalm moment when i read the fucking stupid off topic post he made. wow, i hope he gets cancer.

You sir, are a bit of an asshole.

The other person already responded to the "fool above". His response was logical and contributed to the discussion, and made a reasonable point.
YOU, on the other hand, are the most "off-topic" in this thread, because your response was nothing but cursing and hateful banter against the original poster"

Your irrationally hateful comment has severely rustled my jimmies.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

Fictional characters tend to be split into strict moral groups. Just the way we like our stories.

I could go on a rant about the great fantasy novels I read for which this isn't the case, but I won't.

Originally Posted by Dianeva

I could go on a rant about the great fantasy novels I read for which this isn't the case, but I won't.

note "tend"

> Withhold knowledge of morality from Adam and Eve
> Punish Adam and Eve for not following a moral rule



Christians ACTUALLY worship this God guy.

Ever hear the old saying, might makes right? God is supposed to be more powerful so he is also supposed to be more 'good'. Also god will kill you if you don't worship him(and possibly even if you do just for fun). Satan doesn't murder people for not worshiping him. So god is also much more scary. You are not supposed to worship god because he is good, you are supposed to fear him and worship him out of fear, that is how the religion was written.

To answer your question though, religion has evolved over time. Most people don't fear god anymore, and so they needed a reason to continue worshiping him. So Christianity has slowly morphed over the years from a fear based religion, to one based on love. You can still see the old ways, and how they effect the religion, but in general the god of the bible has been largely neutered, and is now far more about the love than wrath.

Of course there are still people who follow the old ways and try to scare people into following the religion, but for most people fear isn't a factor any more. In their eyes its changed to love.

To me the bible what would happen if you played Chinese whispers for far too long about moral rules. Things where different back then which is also probably a factor of how flawed some of the content is.

Who does the term "we" refer to in the title? I don't believe in either, so I don't believe one is good or the other evil. I'm with Carousoul on this one - they're made-up abstractions, personifications for good Christians to project onto. But, if you take the bible into consideration, Alric is right - God was never presented as a benevolent deity in the old testament - he was given a good cleaning-up in the new testament to make him into a kinder gentler god.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Who does the term "we" refer to in the title? I don't believe in either, so I don't believe one is good or the other evil. I'm with Carousoul on this one - they're made-up abstractions, personifications for good Christians to project onto. But, if you take the bible into consideration, Alric is right - God was never presented as a benevolent deity in the old testament - he was given a good cleaning-up in the new testament to make him into a kinder gentler god.

You always were a father figure to me

Go to your room.

Personally I found Carousoul's remark to be an insightful glimpse into the minds of fiction writers everywhere. So what is this topic about? And why is this not in the elephant graveyard of dreamviews; senseless banter?

I noted it, but decided to reply anyway.

Some fictional characters have depth and dimension - some are two-dimensional caricatures or symbols. Why do we perceive Captain America as good and the Red Skull as evil?

1:13 - 1:51

I didn't know of a better place to post this other than S/B

Because that's what they've taught some people, and people are guillable and trust what they're told, that's why. That something may be good or bad isn't objective, so it's hard to debate about something like that poopman, good, bad, wrong, right , are words that should be used with precaution and clear intention.

Actually, one should always explain why you think something is good or bad, so the other person has the oportunity to decide wether it's good or bad either than deciding what you're saying is true or you're full of bs.

Originally Posted by mowglycdb

Because that's what they've taught some people, and people are guillable and trust what they're told, that's why. That something may be good or bad isn't objective, so it's hard to debate about something like that poopman, good, bad, wrong, right , are words that should be used with precaution and clear intention.

Actually, one should always explain why you think something is good or bad, so the other person has the oportunity to decide wether it's good or bad either than deciding what you're saying is true or you're full of bs.

I think its BAD, WRONG, and condescending to treat religious people with kid gloves. Penn jillette gives a great sermon on the subject check it out on youtube. So don't use my loving name in the middle of your stupid post like your talking down to poopman. Its ridiculous.

Originally Posted by poopman

I think its BAD, WRONG, and condescending to treat religious people with kid gloves. Penn jillette gives a great sermon on the subject check it out on youtube. So don't use my loving name in the middle of your stupid post like your talking down to poopman. Its ridiculous.

LOL, we're getting a bit defensive aren't we? Stupid and ridiculous? Did I insult you or something?

You posted the thread with a question, I was answering it to YOU.

Lucifer is the name of a great Angel, not an upstart in heaven who revolted against God and was put down into the nether regions as the Devil. That is a complete misinterpretation. Lucifer means light, and comes from the Latin lux, lucis, meaning light. It is the name of the Angel Who ensouls the human kingdom; every person, therefore, is a fragment of Lucifer. According to the esoteric teaching, the human souls individualized 18 and a half million years ago. Lucifer, the Oversoul, diversified itself, and each fragment became individualized.

These individualized human souls descended from the soul plane into incarnation. The 'fall' of Adam and Eve from paradise is the symbolic representation of this event; it has nothing to do with the Devil or with Lucifer as an evil entity, but with the divine nature of humanity itself as souls.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Lucifer is the name of a great Angel, not an upstart in heaven who revolted against God and was put down into the nether regions as the Devil. That is a complete misinterpretation. Lucifer means light, and comes from the Latin lux, lucis, meaning light. It is the name of the Angel Who ensouls the human kingdom; every person, therefore, is a fragment of Lucifer. According to the esoteric teaching, the human souls individualized 18 and a half million years ago. Lucifer, the Oversoul, diversified itself, and each fragment became individualized.

These individualized human souls descended from the soul plane into incarnation. The 'fall' of Adam and Eve from paradise is the symbolic representation of this event; it has nothing to do with the Devil or with Lucifer as an evil entity, but with the divine nature of humanity itself as souls.

I've heard this idea before, and it meshes well with the way I view things. Satan is a collected consciousness or over-soul of humanity. It has "fallen" or been cast out of heaven in the sense that it has become separated from the higher, more encompassing levels above it. God is the totality of all, which experiences itself by creating descending dimensions, each dimension a further sub-creation. There is an aspect of god, a created level, of which your body, mind and spirit are creations of. This aspect has fallen asleep, becoming disconnected from this whole branching system. Humans, being components of it, are asleep as well.

I would imagine the bible (especially the old testament) is more influenced by this disconnection than by god. It is largely an instrument of control which has had any original knowledge deeply skewed.

I've heard this idea before, and it meshes well with the way I view things

Scientology teaches these same ideas.