Thread: Sex

Originally Posted by juroara

The sex obsessed culture was most frustrating for me when I was a teenager. It felt like for me, every other teenager was looking for sex and boyfriends - and I was just looking for a best friend. When I was in college I thought by magic my feelings would change and that seeking out a sexual relationship would be priority. But my feelings didn't change as an adult- friendship still made more sense than sex. I had to consider that maybe I was asexual.

But researching asexuality was even more frustrating. Theres so much controversy on what it means. Do you enjoy sex? Do you never enjoy it? Everything seemed to be missing a fundamental aspect of my personality, I could NOT seperate sexual desire from love.

The most frustrating part about being an adult single virgin is all the bullshit personality crap that people assume about you. That you're insecure. That you lack confidence. That you're up-tight, religious, or celibate or waiting. Waiting for what? I didn't realize I could control my feelings for another. How do you explain to someone that your lack of sexual interest in another is NOT an intellectual choice?

Understanding that asexuality is not an intellectual choice helped me understand "normal" sexuality is not an intellectual choice either. No one chooses to be sexually attracted to a total stranger anymore than they choose to not be. Its just the way you are.

Boys who were upset that I crushed their dreams tried to argue against my feelings. They tried to argue that I really did feel that way about them, but I was just intellectually choosing to not act on it. Lol, no. Sometimes, you really dont feel that way and thats when this culture is most frustrating, because it tries to tell us everyone is equally horny all the damn time.

Hyper sexuality is real. There really are people who can have sex with just about anyone, a true casanova. This is there natural sexual orientation. The problem is when the capitalist culture using sex to sell tries to have us buy that everyone is like this. Its just not true. The reality is for most people sex is emotional and a way to self express. Hormones happen like clock work, but emotions change as you change as a person. The desire and importance of sex, one way or the other, can change in your life too.

If the modern sexual culture is pissing you off, you could be asexual. But more than likely, you're just wired to make love. Research tantra. That said, sex is an activity involving atleast two. If you think sex is just penetration with a toy, then I think you're gonna find a lot of couples telling you you don't get it at all. Amoebas don't have sex.

Off-topic: Have you considered a career in article writing/marketing?

Originally Posted by Michael

sex is built into your dna to be one of the most important things to you. it feels good... you think about it a lot... you are attracted to others.... all of us got here because of it (and other stuff)

usually the people that are against it or "don't understand" are ugly, or scared... or don't have a lot of hormones like testosterone etc.... if they were getting laid they would be all for it.

I don't believe that 40+ year old virgin guy did it by choice the entire time.

of course SOME people like monks and whatnot choose not to.

and really the americal culture hypes sex because they want us to pop out more babies. think about it...

Considering we started out as DV babes together, it's good to see that you're still sputtering around this place.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

I'm a bliss junkie so I'm probably not the best person to ask when it comes to this subject if you're looking for someone to agree, but I personally see no problem with all of this.

Are you literally a junkie?

Originally Posted by Signet

Baka!

It feels good to be flying through the air, too, but I don't want to get that sensation by jumping off a cliff.
It feels good to eat a dozen doughnuts every day, but I don't find it worth weighing in at 240 pounds.
It feels good to go racing down the road at 120 miles per hour, but I'd rather not land in jail or DEAD.
It feels good to go banging every chick in sight that will let you, but I can't help but wonder if there's some catch...
All the great euphorias in life come with a catch. I strive to know what that catch is.

That's a very depressing way to look at life. Why look at the bad side of life all the time? Why seek out that bad side? You're missing the everyday pleasures when you live in a world of extremes.

The problem with your list is that everyone of your examples of euphoria has a very obvious downside. I'll list activities that give moderate to substantial feelings of euphoria that do NOT have a downside.

Regular exercise. In fact, this is GOOD for you.
Having one to two(!) alcoholic drinks. A good example would be a glass of red wine, which research shows is good for you. Obviously, binge drinking or everyday drinking is unhealthy. Having a couple drinks is not bad for you.
Eating well. It feels very good when you eat a completely balanced meal. You feel good the rest of the day, as well.
Amusement parks.
Going to a comedy club.
I could list a dozen more activities.

And finally the most substantial and gratifying activity without a downside.... ... ...sex. No, not having sex with every person in sight...and even with that, as long as you used protection going on a sex binge wouldn't be innately bad. Sex feels good. It's SUPPOSED to feel good otherwise organisms wouldn't do it. It's hardwired to be the most important activity in our lives. Obviously, for humans, this last point is debatable. However, sex, as long as you use protection, DOESN'T come with a catch. Having sex produces some of the most significant euphoria one can experience. I really hope the virgins who have demonized or gave up on sex ITT reconsider. It's not hopeless, and you really are missing out. And that's not supposed to be condescending. I hope to inspire you to keep trying.

Originally Posted by Grod

Are you literally a junkie?

Well if you're asking me if I'm addicted to getting high then yes, I am. But I never made it to the needle or anything.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Well if you're asking me if I'm addicted to getting high then yes, I am. But I never made it to the needle or anything.

Unless you're using metaphor past the point of fault, I assume you're literally talking about being addicted to opiates and the subsequent complications.

I asked because I'm a bit of a purist about the word "junkie"; the frequent dilutions of the pejorative mar the original impact of the term. I'm dependent upon opiates; but I'm far from a 'junkie'. There's a significant difference between painkiller dependence and embodying the 'junkie' cloak and behavior. Using the needle doesn't automatically give you 'junkie status', either. Not using the needle in no way absolves you from 'junkie status'. That particular set of thinking, for me, is particularly annoying.

Anyway...I've derailed the topic in the OP far enough.

On topic....the sex industry is heavily related to capitalism and even human nature. It's much to do with shaming sexless individuals into 'correct' action and congratulating those who have sex frequently. I imagine it's very disheartening for those who are not currently having sex...and not by choice.

Originally Posted by Grod

Unless you're using metaphor past the point of fault, I assume you're literally talking about being addicted to opiates and the subsequent complications.

I asked because I'm a bit of a purist about the word "junkie"; the frequent dilutions of the pejorative mar the original impact of the term. I'm dependent upon opiates; but I'm far from a 'junkie'. There's a significant difference between painkiller dependence and embodying the 'junkie' cloak and behavior. Using the needle doesn't automatically give you 'junkie status', either. Not using the needle in no way absolves you from 'junkie status'. That particular set of thinking, for me, is particularly annoying.

In my post I wasn't trying to call myself a "junkie" with the adjective "bliss" attached for good measure, I was using a single slang term, "bliss junkie", which is just colloquial. It doesn't even have to include drug use, though it does for me. I would not personally call myself a literal junkie and never intended to. I probably would be if opiates actually did anything for me because I do have an incredibly addictive personality, but I've just never gotten any euphoria at all or any significant pain relief from them, even when I actually needed them. Supposedly a very high natural tolerance runs in my family.

I wouldn't call someone a junkie just because they were a drug user and had that attitude, if that's what you're getting upset about. I tend to save that for where it actually applies. I probably won't stop using the term bliss junkie though. No offense intended, but I don't see them as interfering with one another. To me it's in the same category as saying like "math junkie", which I have a very hard time believing would devalue the impact of "opiate junkie". I also wouldn't say that the needle is required for it either, but that's usually what people mean when the ask me.

You should read "The Birth of Tragedy" by Nietzsche. You'd probably like it, it talks a lot about intoxication in the general sense.

Sex is positive. just dont make a deal of it.

It should be some natural thing we do and enjoy but hey

it fun to write songs about it

and inspires some good feels which in turn inspire better and perhaps wilder things than sex could ever be

Those humans who historically thought about (and performed) sex the most were the ones who reproduced. Those children that thought about sex and performed sex the most reproduced.

If you follow this to its logical conclusion, the humans who survived are the ones who reproduced. And the ones who reproduced really enjoyed sex.

Think in terms of our society.

Pretty much since the roman catholics got their hands on morality, sex has been this taboo repressed thing. For centuries and centuries our most basic biological drive besides survival has been swept under the carpet by social norms. This didn't mean everyone wasn't at it anyway, it just wasn't talked about.

20th century, the sixties, consumerism, the pill, (relative) liberation of women. Suddenly you can talk about sex! And surprise, surprise, that's all that everyone wants to do. Sex becomes less and less taboo and becomes more mainstream in media.

It's like when you're a horny teenager and you first discover making out with your girlfriend, it's literally the only thing you want to do. Same with society. When our culture grows out of the 'awkward horny teenager' phase there will be a more mature attitude towards it. That's my take on it.

People were still talking about sex in the height of catholic rule. Perhaps not as openly, but the repression bled out of them. I mean, have you seen those victorian era table legs? They look like penises.

The catholics merely wanted to make sure people raised a shitload of catholic children for them so they needed to instill morals to make sure people were all being raised catholic, including shunning premarital sex, contraception, homosexuality and "bastards."

The LDS church does the exact same thing. It has nothing to do with right and wrong and everything to do with population control. Mormon girls are so fucking horny it's ridiculous, so they get married at 18-20 and pop out 6 kids by the time they're 25. It's really sick, if you ask me, to brainwash young people to ruin their lives like that.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

Mormon girls ... get married at 18-20 and pop out 6 kids by the time they're 25. It's really sick, if you ask me, to brainwash young people to ruin their lives like that.

I get what you were saying up to this point, but... what's wrong with marrying young and having a big family? I know more than a few lady-friends who either have done so or would like to. Is that really so weird?

Let me explain why. They're taught not to explore. They're given the burden of hormones and told the only way to alleviate their suffering is find someone, marry them and start having lots of unprotected sex. Just out of high school, which is already torture, they go right into being a parent and skip all the parts of life that don't totally suck. They never get a chance to see what they want to do with their lives. Their own hormones are twisted against them.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

Just out of high school, which is already torture, they go right into being a parent and skip all the parts of life that don't totally suck. They never get a chance to see what they want to do with their lives. Their own hormones are twisted against them.

Um, excuse me? I've talked to you before now and then, OD/OP, and you're usually not like that. I respect you quite highly for being in the minority of DV-er's who actually think before they post.

Ahem.

So... just WHAT is so wrong about getting a jump on life? What's the big deal about having a family? If the point is to reproduce then, well, that kind of sounds like a good time. The body's been ready then already for a time, and I'd HOPE that someone in their late teens would have a head on their shoulders. What's the problem?

Young old-timer here. Just getting on a rabbit-trail for this question. (I hope.)

I live with mormons, and Utah has some major problems which I believe are directly caused by the oppressive religion. Living among these people has created a prejudice in me. It's not that LDS is the only religion in the planet I have a problem with, it's just the only one in my face. Women have a 23% higher chance of being murdered by their husbands in Utah than the rest of the country. The suicide rate here among teenagers is ridiculous but that's more related to other aspects of mormon repression and kind of off topic. If I wanted to I could go on an on about the blowback of a repressive society. For instance Utah also ranks no. 1 in pornography consumption and ranks fairly highly in sexual abuse as well.

But I want to speak more specifically about the issue of lifestyle choice. You say some women marry young, start their families early and enjoy life. That's great for them, it's especially great because you mentioned some women, implying a choice. Women who grow up in mormon society don't get that choice. There's an unspoken pressure in this society to marry young and start families early. While there's always pressure to start a family, I noticed when I moved here from California that the pressure to marry young is much greater, and people find it odd in general, mormon or not, if you're not married by 25. The LDS church applies even greater pressure, and growing up mormon people find it odd if a girl is 22 and still unmarried. Most marry the moment the man gets back from his mission. Women are not given the opportunity to explore. They are taught that such exploration is a sin. I'll get back to this in a second but first I want to talk about something I like to call Young Girl Syndrome. This is a stage most women go through where they have no idea what they want and become flaky, doubtful and unstable. This is perfectly natural, it typically takes a girl until she's around 20-21 or older to grow out of it and figure out exactly what she wants. Before this maturation, a girl is very likely to make all sorts of unpredictable choices, especially regarding the guys she spends time with. What a girl wants when she's 16 is likely to change as she realizes the guys she's been attracted to aren't actually very good for her or conducive to her happiness. Slowly a girl see's through the assholes, unconsciously (or consciously) realizes why she was drawn to them, understands what she really wanted and begins to go for that instead. This is a process. Instead of going through this process, they are taught if they explore they'll be whores (even if they're just dating different guys and not fucking them) and so they stick with that one guy a younger version of themselves found interesting.

Imagine a world where the jocks got all the girls and kept them. No lesbian college phase, no crushing on the intellectual, scarf wearing 28 year old with a masters degree phase and no time to find out what type of guy is actually good for her. Before she even has an inkling of who she is and who she wants to be with, she's already got a family with some douche that won her affection by treating her like shit in high school. Compared to the national average, in Utah domestic abuse is higher, suicide among mothers is higher and domestic murder is higher. I don't have a problem with women becoming mothers early if they know for a fact that it's what they want to do but how can you call that getting a jump on life? To me, in many cases, it's a death sentence and you're wrong when you say the point in life is reproduction. Reproduction is just how it keeps going but there's more to living than that. The point of life is to experience it and I'm sorry but chasing 5-6 kids around a house sounds like a shitty experience, I would rather wait on that and spend a little bit of time trying to make my experiences as enjoyable as possible. I'm not trying to look down on having children, I heard it's the single most fulfilling thing you can do. But I'd like to make sure that A. I'm doing it with the right person and B. When I have kids I'm so full of memories and experiences that I both raise them better and find myself without any regret that they happened when they did.

'Course its normal to be naughty, take your clothes off - feel no shame!

Thank you, OP.
Just to note: When I said "If the point is to reproduce", I was (somewhat sardonically) re-using what I've heard around here. (Not much, but I have.)

Ctharlhie

Think in terms of our society.

Pretty much since the roman catholics got their hands on morality, sex has been this taboo repressed thing. For centuries and centuries our most basic biological drive besides survival has been swept under the carpet by social norms. This didn't mean everyone wasn't at it anyway, it just wasn't talked about.

20th century, the sixties, consumerism, the pill, (relative) liberation of women. Suddenly you can talk about sex! And surprise, surprise, that's all that everyone wants to do. Sex becomes less and less taboo and becomes more mainstream in media.

It's like when you're a horny teenager and you first discover making out with your girlfriend, it's literally the only thing you want to do. Same with society. When our culture grows out of the 'awkward horny teenager' phase there will be a more mature attitude towards it. That's my take on it.

But don't forget, the 80's and the explosion of AIDs scared society away from the sexual liberation of the 60's. And since it was believed to be the wrath of God.....:<

And jeez, I just wanna be a slacker and browse DVs at work but I'm too paranoid because of the thread title! I mean, hr sits right behind me, lol

Maybe instead of trying to change everyone else you should just go get laid, Signet.

Sorry, tommo. Against my code. :/
And don't worry... I'm not one of those guys who stayed content with hand-me-down morality.

Against your code?
What is your code?

Don't get jumpy, now; I'm just being funny in terminology.
What I mean is that by my beliefs (which, like I said, are not assumed from what I heard in childhood) I would not just go and "get laid".
I might just go get married soon enough if I can't find peace with myself being single, though.

Originally Posted by Signet

Don't get jumpy, now; I'm just being funny in terminology.
What I mean is that by my beliefs (which, like I said, are not assumed from what I heard in childhood) I would not just go and "get laid".
I might just go get married soon enough if I can't find peace with myself being single, though.

Dude, don't get married without getting laid first, that's like buying a lifetime supply of muffins ever trying one. You aren't going to know if you are going to like it, and if you don't your muffins are going to get pissed off. Actually most muffins wouldn't get pissed off, but your wife sure as hell will.

Also, I think rather than society, it's you that's making too big a deal out of sex. It's just an action if you want it to be, but it can deeply connect people if you let it, although I'm also a virgin so I probably shouldn't be lecturing you on this

Originally Posted by ixsetf

Dude, don't get married without getting laid first, that's like buying a lifetime supply of muffins ever trying one. You aren't going to know if you are going to like it, and if you don't your muffins are going to get pissed off. Actually most muffins wouldn't get pissed off, but your wife sure as hell will.

I'm very sorry. At this point, I have no socially responsible reply to your post. It would be inappropriate for me to reply in the manner that I intended to and wanted to, so I am waiting.

Just a minute. Lemme cool off.

I'm also a virgin so I probably shouldn't be lecturing you on this.

If you're just saying what came to mind from the assumptions that you've made based off of the voice of your peers, you're damn right you don't.

What you posted leads right back to the reason I made this thread in the first place. You say "You aren't going to know if you are going to like it, and if you don't your [wife is] going to get pissed off."
So... you're saying is that sex is the hinge-pin upon which a marital relationship is sustained? You're saying that I can't find meaning and completeness in the company of another person without sexual compatibility? If that was so, I would not be alive because my parents would never have stayed married for twenty years. (Yeah, I'm a late child.)
Sex: the cornerstone of lasting, mutual relation. To hell with that. I stand before the world as a living rebuttal to that notion, for I am a virgin and proud of it, AND I keep my friends. I have deeper relationships with my friends (who are mostly girls, go figure) than almost anyone I have met - and ANY of my peers, sans one couple who just got engaged.
Without ever having sex.

Guys, I'm not a Bible-thumper. I don't even want to get into that right now. Everything I say, I say with the conviction that comes from extensive observance of the world. I've seen dozens of cities in eight countries and talked to hundreds of people from all sorts of walks.
I'm running out of patience. I'm trying like mad to find reason for this mentality that mankind has of "sex, sex, get laid, sex, do it NOW, commitment later," and I find none. It's inconsistent with reality (one reason I find lucid dreaming is so enticing), and I only see it leading to ruin. Today, yesterday, last year, and back throughout the millennia.

I want to justify it. But I can't.

And that difference... is starting to feel powerful.

I can know the depths of my best friend's mind and soul without laying a hand on her. Why would I rattle that with lust? Why would I rock the boat when it sails so smoothly?

Why would I give up temperance and respect for "it feels good"?


Sorry. I tried to keep cool. Rant over.

Originally Posted by Signet

Don't get jumpy, now; I'm just being funny in terminology.
What I mean is that by my beliefs (which, like I said, are not assumed from what I heard in childhood) I would not just go and "get laid".
I might just go get married soon enough if I can't find peace with myself being single, though.

I'm just wondering what kind of beliefs would cause you to put sex on a pedestal, which, is exactly what you're accusing society of doing, and condemning them for it, funnily enough.

EDIT: I see ixsetf already said basically the same thing.
"I can know the depths of my best friend's mind and soul without laying a hand on her."
You will never know the depths of her "soul" until you fuck her.
When you kiss her and enter her you will see who she really is.
You will know in that instant how you really feel about her.
You can lie to yourself, but you'll know whether it is lust or love.

And that is why you should have sex before marriage. Is that a good enough reason?
BTW, if the only reasons you've heard are "sex feels good" you really haven't been searching very hard.