I think when you are telling a story, everything is fair game. How can we have interesting plots and discussions if we can't include controversial subject matter? |
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There are many popular video games that include sexism in them for the purpose of sexual pleasure, intensity and drama. Of course, when telling stories, drama and suffering are key parts, and they aren't immoral. There should be two things to keep in mind though when talking about sexism in games: |
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Last edited by LouaiB; 09-21-2014 at 05:28 PM. Reason: spelling
I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
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I think when you are telling a story, everything is fair game. How can we have interesting plots and discussions if we can't include controversial subject matter? |
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I was trying to think of what to say, but there are so many games around today that it is very difficult talk about them as if they are one thing. I don't think it is really an issue at all, as long as it fits in the context of the game and the genre of the game. You would expect to find some sexist stuff in any form of entertainment, as our entertainment often reflect the culture we live in and there is still sexist attitudes that exist. There is no reason you couldn't have say strippers in a game, that isn't automatically sexist. The important thing to remember when dealing with sexism and stuff is just being aware of things. Sexist things are a problem when you see them as normal and you start treating people like that. |
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I agree with Alric and Snoop, but only up to a point. In fact, if we're going to talk about sexual harassment being a 'trigger' to former victims (if that's what you're talking about) then how about vets suffering from PTSD seeing people getting mowed down indiscriminately in shooter games? Or for that matter anyone who has lost somebody to gun violence. These can be very traumatic situations - but I would say that's not necessarily a reason to exclude gun violence from games - people who dislike gun violence should stay away from games depicting it. I haven't personally played any games like GTA that feature the kind of sexual harassment I think you're talking about, so I don't know how it's depicted, or how violent it gets or anything. Without knowing that I can't really say much about it. But I do think that, just like with movies or stories, there's a certain point beyond which you can't really call it drama anymore, it becomes porn (like the 'torture porn' movies for instance), and at that point I'd say it's too much and just an assault against good taste. |
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I dont know if this thread is directly related to recent gamer events or not, but things have gotten out of hand. A feminist has been posting videos of her opinion of the sexism in video games. For posting her point of views, she's being harassed by the gamer community. ......And that's an understatement. The harassment is so extreme, she can take criminal action against these gamers. |
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It's not just a fantasy - it's the male necessity to learn that their lot in life is to sacrifice for women. Long before there were video games, male games involved fighting and protecting females because it's preparation for life. The same way lion and tiger cubs play fight and learnt to stalk for prey etc. You have to impress on the males that it's HEROIC to protect females no matter the risk to yourself, how else do you get them to stay on sinking ships till all the women and children have been offloaded, or to run into burning buildings? To be willing to fight wars, or to fight one-on-one (or one-on-many) when necessary? Often to protect females. |
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Last edited by Darkmatters; 09-22-2014 at 03:27 AM.
If more women were involved in making video games for women than those video games would exist. Right now the target audience is males. I have heard it from many women in my life, most just can't understand why men love games so much, what they find so interesting in them. I don't mean to say that games made in the interest of womanly desires and likes shouldn't be made at all, but rather that there doesn't seem to be much of a market for them. Women can start making games for women as much as they want, so can men. The reason they don't is because not enough people are asking for them. If you want them so bad, you have to make them yourselves, or at least push for their creation, you know? |
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Yeah, in movies there are genres that appeal to female audiences (and not so much to straight males, especially young ones) - but for some reason the games A.S. and co. seem to focus on are the action/adventure games. That would be like criticizing romantic dramas for not having enough explosions and gunfights to appeal to men. She's looking into the wrong genre is the problem. I don't have a cell phone or play games of that sort, but as I understand it there are a lot of those that aren't filled with violence and gore. Also lots of MMORPGs like Minecraft (not sure, never played it). |
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Last edited by Darkmatters; 09-22-2014 at 04:16 AM.
Yeah, there are many games now that don't even involve fighting or violence, they're just a way to explore. You just have to look for what it is that you want to play. |
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NOOOO. That is a complete insult to female gamers everywhere. We are a HUGE market. Why do you think Zelda is such a beloved franchise? Because of FEMALES. If females didn't play Zelda, it would only be half as big. Seriously, so give us some more credit. When girls love a game, they're the difference that makes a game an international sensation. (kinda like how the Hispanic vote makes a difference) |
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I agree with all your opinions. |
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Last edited by LouaiB; 09-22-2014 at 06:05 AM. Reason: spelling
I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
Juroara you aren't quite getting my meaning. I am not saying that female gamers don't exist and that there isn't a demand for female oriented games, per se. What I am meaning to say is, there aren't enough women in the game development community that want to push for women oriented games. I'm sorry, but if you are a straight male, you don't have any clue what it is like to be a woman. I have no idea what it is that you want out of games, I just know what I want out of games. The Zelda series is great, one of my favorite in fact, but you can't deny it's roots as a male-oriented game. If you choose to deny that, then you have to deny that any games are really male oriented, and believe that they are simply gamer oriented but you are choosing to view many of them as male-oriented when in fact they have no direct orientation other than for being a game whatsoever. I personally believe the latter is more of the case, but since you are arguing that not enough games are female oriented, I have to argue on your terms, and so if you break it down along the same criteria, the Zelda series are male oriented games. |
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I'm not sure if females like call of duty as much as males do |
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Last edited by LouaiB; 09-22-2014 at 06:46 AM.
I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
The thing I am getting at here is nobody is being appreciative of what they are being given. If you want there to be video games that pander to your likes, then go make it. If you can't do that, then quit complaining. Can you honestly expect somebody else to make something just for you? Games are works of art. The people that make them do so because they are making the game they want to make. If you don't like that, don't play their game, and go make your own. |
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I would agree, but partly I don't because game designers know how to make games that appeal both genders, whether the game designer is a male or a female. But I do agree that there isn't biasm in the game industry because these industries want profit. The fact is that certain types of games are the most demanded, and they happen to be demanded mostly by males because most hardcore videogamers are in fact males. |
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Last edited by LouaiB; 09-22-2014 at 07:07 AM. Reason: spelling
I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.
"People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
Add me as a friend!!!
I apologize for how I sounded in my last post, I let the topic get under my skin. What I realized was that I was getting upset over how ungrateful people were being that games were even being created at all. If you have the money and resources to make the type of games you think should be out there for people to play, then go for it. But, if you don't like how things are, and all you can find yourself doing is complaining, then I suggest you reevaluate why you play games in the first place. Nobody has to make these games for you, they are doing it because they want to make something they think is beautiful. If you can't appreciate that, then you have to put in some work, man hours, or energy yourself. That way, the type of game you think needs to be on the market will be there, and you can rest with a smile on your face because you put it there. |
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As I said before, what about veterans suffering from PTSD who see people indiscriminately shooting people in games? Is it different when it's a man? Why would that be? Are you implying that women are weak and frail and need to be protected but that the same doesn't apply to men who carry open wounds (often physical as well as emotional)? How on earth could sexual harassment even compare with seeing friends blown apart or losing limbs? And yet people in general seem to have this attitude you're expressing, that we have to protect the women but not the men. Everyone believes women should be protected but that men shouldn't, in fact that men should just shut up and deal with it. |
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Last edited by Darkmatters; 09-22-2014 at 10:35 PM.
Personally, I like a game for its mechanics, not its theme or whatever. I care not for the rating; if the gameplay is unique and interesting, I'm sold. That said, unlike most gamers I've seen, whom are usually focused on one theme or genre, mine collection is a mixture of sorts. Most other gamers think I'm weird because I play so many unusual games. |
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Women want the same thing men want in games. Which is usually fun game play and good story. One or the other, ideally both. If you make a game with a good story, and the game play is really fun, then everyone is going to play it. |
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I'm sorry but this is a feminist fallacy. Women have a lot more white matter in their brains, men have a lot more grey matter. Their brains are different. Women are not as good at hard science, hard math or engineering as men, and that's just a fact. Due to the feminist push in colleges there have been many that tried all kinds of ways to get women into those classes, and quite a few women did enter them, but not many have been good enough to get degrees in those fields. And this is with a huge push to get them there! It does no good to blame it on society or sexism. It's just a biological fact, like the fact that males have more upper body strength. |
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Kind of like how women are better at language skills, and thus there is almost no men who speak foreign languages? Oh wait, that isn't true. Any one, regardless of gender is perfectly capable to learning the skills needed for this sort of thing. It isn't like basic programming requires extremely high levels of skills. You could learn to program a game in a single class, and any person who takes four years of collage courses on the subject are going to be fully capable of using that degree and working in a professional setting. |
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Wow! Wat??!! So many bizarre assumptions. |
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Last edited by Darkmatters; 09-23-2014 at 06:08 AM.
That was my point, no one would ever say that men can't learn foreign languages or that there isn't many who do it. In the studies on brains they say women are better at languages skills by a larger margin than men are better than women at science stuff. Yet it doesn't seem to slow men down that much at all does it? So there is no reason to think it is a significant impairment to any women trying to learn programming. Which ironically enough, programming is like using another language, so women should be better at it any way, right? |
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But we know that men do learn foreign languages, and we also know that very few women are taking STEM courses and even fewer are graduating with degrees in those fields. I don't claim to know exactly why that is, but the facts speak for themselves. And please don't read into that anything that I didn't say - the only fact I'm referring to is the fact I stated, that women tend not to enter STEM courses or to graduate from them nearly as much as men do. Alright, I've stated my case (several times now, and clarified it). There's no real point in continuing this. We both know neither of us is going to convince the other. |
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Is it really this hard to accept that men and women are different and both are good and better at different things? God damn. |
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