Thread: Theory On Dream Characters

Originally Posted by Suck4Luck

Here it is: Saying this whole shared dreaming stuff is true, heres somthing. What if when we arent lucid dreaming, this means everyone in the world, and we are actually dream characters to other lucid dreams.

I had an experience where a character in my dream called me a dream character.

If this was real, wouldnt that be crazy


WHEN YOU ARENT LUCID DREAMING, YOU ARE A DREAM CHARACTER LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IN YOUR DREAMS.

WHAT IF THOSE PEOPLE IN YOUR NON LUCID AND LUCID DREAMS WERE JUST OTHER PEOPLE NOT HAVING A LUCID DREAM.

Really profound stuff but I'm sure the military, or the big corporate advertisers would have looked into this? Could you imagine, for example every DC you met in your dream had a 'coke bottle in one hand and a mobile telephone in the other, which in turn is stuck to their ear? Like a 'mobile 'phone zombie'? (Oh sorry, that already happens in 'real life' - otherwise known as the 24/7 society!)
Seriously though, it is food for thought?

Originally Posted by Sageous

Second, I have been practicing dream yoga for decades -- I apparently was doing so before I finally learned the term about ten years ago, and have personally experienced its "truths," which I assume is similar to being shown them...we're not all newbies here. That said, I'd like to offer a small warning: be very careful of those truths you were shown, because whatever you were shown are mere examples; the real truths you encounter in dream (and sleep) yoga are sourced not in someone else's words, but in the very heart of our souls, our nature. Do you know what else is sourced there? Imagination. Attach to what you're really experiencing the expectation of those shown truths fueled with imagination, stir it around in the center of your soul for a time, add some religious faith later, and you may brew a conceptual mix that, though it seems very deep and perfectly real, is simply a product of your own imagination, a fulfillment of your beliefs. Perhaps not, of course, but the possibility does, must, exist.

.........

Remember also that in the Matrix Morpheus was ultimately wrong, and it would have helped Neo deeply if he could have known how everything worked before taking that pill; It would have saved us all the need to see the next two movies!

.........

I hope I did not offend, Sivason, as that was not my intention. It is simply that these things are of great import to me, and sometimes I just tire of potentially worthwhile exchanges being shredded by "truths" based on faith, anecdotal experiences, and pop-culture science... Sometimes all at once. I hope you read my words with the good intentions I hold, and understand my consternation. If you cannot, then please forgive and feel free fo forget.

Actually what I believe is also from experience and I think the nature of theuniverse is created by imagination. You are 100% correct, but it fits my world view perfectly. In a maluable dream like universe (I am just saying, this one already is) any version of the truth can be true. Christians can go to heaven, people can stop existing and people can be reborn,,,,, heres the punch line again... because none of this is real in the first place, of course each of those things is very possable. So I agree with the nature and content of your warning, but as a mystic I feel it would hold me back, but thank you for mentioning it.

Sure it would help people to know what both of us have discovered, but you must admit its alot of work. I will continue to answer questions honestly and in my own style as my attempt to do my part. You are helping in the same way.But, what else can really be done. It sounds very far fetched to most people. And I never got my share of pills to hand out.

I am not offended by anything you have ever posted, you are someone who puts time and effort into your posts, and that is nice of you, sharing your hard earned knowledge freely. I agree the back and forth shared dream arguements are boring and tedious. I am just offering my explaination as per my experience. Useing the word "God" in any post is dangerous I suposse, but I almost never break out the deep spiritual stuff, the generic concept of God seemed inoffensive enough.

Keep expressing things the way you see them, I will benifit from hearing your own take on things. There are not that many dream yogi types, so it is cool to have found another. Very cool.

^^ Well, Sivason, it sounds now to me that we are indeed both fishing from the same little dream boat into the same spiritual sea. We may be dropping our lines off different sides, with slightly different bait, but I think that in the end is a good thing indeed...how else do we learn?

Perhaps a new dream yoga thread is in order elsewhere here...

I look forward to future chats, and maybe more on this very thread, should it survive my off-topic ramblings.

Best of Dreams.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Galaxies do not go faster than light, hyperspace may exist, but if it were practical the the same massive changes to humanity that practical dream-sharing would cause would occur... And also, if a galaxy were moving away from us at a pace exceeding light speed, how would we know, since its light would never reach us? No need to answer; since this is way off topic, and I simply don't care enough, I'll leave it at that...I hope you will as well.

I know this is way off topic, but I couldn't help myself.

P1) Light travelling from the sun to us on earth takes approximately 8 minutes to reach us.
P2) At the onset of the big bang, the universe expanded many times the distance from the earth to the sun in a thousandth of a second.
C) Thus, faster than light speed travel is theoretically possible.

I may be horribly wrong, but this plagues my mind a lot. Forgive me.

^_^

Originally Posted by Sageous

I look forward to future chats, and maybe more on this very thread, should it survive my off-topic ramblings.

Oh dear, or my encouragement of them.

Well in theory, if people were actually your dream characters, you could ask a reoccurring character in your waking life to collaborate what happened in your dreams every day. Well involving each other. Both being lucid would also mean you two could control the world together.

I mean I sort of believe in this idea because one time while a friend was at my house and he woke up to tell me that his friend jumped off of a roof in his dream and that I was there. All I could say to him was "I know I was there" because I truly had the same dream and was really shocked.

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

I know this is way off topic, but I couldn't help myself.

P1) Light travelling from the sun to us on earth takes approximately 8 minutes to reach us.
P2) At the onset of the big bang, the universe expanded many times the distance from the earth to the sun in a thousandth of a second.
C) Thus, faster than light speed travel is theoretically possible.

I may be horribly wrong, but this plagues my mind a lot. Forgive me.

Want your mind plagued a little more? There was no light in the universe for the first few hundred thousand years, so the speed limit wasn't yet in place. Not sure the logic follows there, but I liked it!

Maybe the original expansion adhered to the same as yet unknown laws of physics that dream-sharing would follow?

Remember also that no one was there; it's the math and extremely limited observation telling us how quickly the Big Bang happened, and what its results were. For all we know, the universe could have been created yesterday. ready made, by some god proving to his buddies what omnipotence really means.

And please stop encouraging my inane ramblings!


Now back to our show?

Does this theory mean that if one person dreams of another, the other person also dreamed of him?
Always?

Originally Posted by Sageous

Maybe ...... adhered to the same as yet unknown laws of physics that dream-sharing would follow?

......... For all we know, the universe could have been created yesterday. ready made, by some god proving to his buddies what omnipotence really means.

Now back to our show?

.
Staying on topic. That is why I discused the other stuff. The rules dreams and shared dreams share may not be subject to our standard physics. If in fact our entire existance is actually composed of a dream energy, then we do not need to know the mechanism. I try to come off less extreme than I actuually am, but for this thread I will tell you all what I feel I know is true. Something can exist in our world with no science behind why it exists. However, everthing will allow an explaination to appear if people care enough to find one (the science being created as our need to explain expands). Sageous commented on not knowing about the creation of the universe. I actually do believe the universe may have started yesterday or 8 years ago. No fooling, and on topic, talking as a educated and sober mind. This is on topic because the reason shared dreaming works, is possably because the nature of our existance is not actually what we precieve at all. Being composed of energy and guided by dream style control, everything is possable. Not only is it possable the universe actually began days ago, there is a very good chance that is true. If we accept my premise that our existance is very much like the Matrix except it is dream material instead of computor generated, (This is a commonly held belief amongst Yogis) then the idea of alternate realities becomes easy to accept. It would only take the belief that whatever the source of the big dream, that thing could have multiple dreaams running at one time, like a computor running multiple programs. So a new version of reality is neeeded, a suddenlly a copy of the existing reality is started on a new story line. In otherwords, a new version of everthing just popped into existance instantly, that is the entire universe or perhaps just multiple versions of a smaller area.
I think the idea of DCs being other dreamers is clearly no big stretch at all, if my version of whats going on is actually correct. I imagine each of us the owners of a tiny alternate universe, that is connected somehow to a shared alternate universe where any of us could go in our dreams. So the following possabilities exist. Someone enters your dreams, your dimension, from the shared area, and you take them to be a DC. Second and most relevent to this topic. You can leave your personal dimension and enter a shared area where many of the DCs will be other dreamers. In this area fake DCs can also exist. The result of everybodies dream control acting at one time is random, for instance if a very powerful dreamer is making it rain, you would have to accept it and make up a reason why the rain is not actually getting you wet. The thrid version is you then leave this shared area but not back to your own. You could go into someone elses dreams or travel to other dimensions beyond our understanding.

Originally Posted by Ibis

Does this theory mean that if one person dreams of another, the other person also dreamed of him?
Always?

No. Not in my opinion anyways. Some DCs are made up by you, some are other dreamers, but you may see them as friends and not know them at all. A man may be having a shared dream with a woman who is a stranger, but he sees his own wife and so on.

Originally Posted by sivason

...Someone enters your dreams, your dimension, from the shared area, and you take them to be a DC. Second and most relevant to this topic. You can leave your personal dimension and enter a shared area where many of the DCs will be other dreamers. In this area fake DCs can also exist. The result of everybody's dream control acting at one time is random, for instance if a very powerful dreamer is making it rain, you would have to accept it and make up a reason why the rain is not actually getting you wet. The third version is you then leave this shared area but not back to your own. You could go into someone elses dreams or travel to other dimensions beyond our understanding.

Let's take this one step farther. Each item you note above implies that the dreamer knows what he's doing. What if he doesn't? What if you were to bumble into someone else's dream, or this communal area, and always assume it's your "real" waking-life world, per a nun-lucid dream? Probably just be a weird dream that might impress your analyst. But what if you were then to bumble on to someone else's dream, again without knowing? What if you became trapped in these shifting worlds, never aware that anything is different, never in possession of your self? What if you traveled to worlds or dimensions beyond our understanding (aka, transcendence) and never know it happened, because you are not lucid? And what if you did all this non-stop, even after your physical body has switched back on and is calling your consciousness back?

This makes me think of two things: first, in your world, Sivason, lucidity is a powerful tool indeed; to have self-awareness while shifting through all this stuff would be a near perfect scenario for exploration, both of your own enlightenment and toward the truths others hold. Dream yoga stuff for sure! Second, I wonder how many people we might lose each year to being trapped in other dimensions, other people's minds? Could explain a lot of mental illness, odd comas, bizarre deaths, etc.

And, back to the OP: Based on this stuff, it might make sense to be nice to dream characters, especially the ones who seem lost or confused, because there but for the grace of the dream gods go you!

Originally Posted by Sageous

Let's take this one step farther. Each item you note above implies that the dreamer knows what he's doing. What if he doesn't? What if you were to bumble into someone else's dream, or this communal area, and always assume it's your "real" waking-life world, per a nun-lucid dream? Probably just be a weird dream that might impress your analyst. But what if you were then to bumble on to someone else's dream, again without knowing? What if you became trapped in these shifting worlds, never aware that anything is different, never in possession of your self? What if you traveled to worlds or dimensions beyond our understanding (aka, transcendence) and never know it happened, because you are not lucid? And what if you did all this non-stop, even after your physical body has switched back on and is calling your consciousness back?

This makes me think of two things: first, in your world, Sivason, lucidity is a powerful tool indeed; to have self-awareness while shifting through all this stuff would be a near perfect scenario for exploration, both of your own enlightenment and toward the truths others hold. Dream yoga stuff for sure! Second, I wonder how many people we might lose each year to being trapped in other dimensions, other people's minds? Could explain a lot of mental illness, odd comas, bizarre deaths, etc.

And, back to the OP: Based on this stuff, it might make sense to be nice to dream characters, especially the ones who seem lost or confused, because there but for the grace of the dream gods go you!

I love it. I will buy that and imagine it explains dying peacefully in your sleep when you are too old, or people who have sleeping disorders like narcolepsy. Maybe they wander off to another dimension with out intending to.

Originally Posted by Sageous

...And, back to the OP: Based on this stuff, it might make sense to be nice to dream characters, especially the ones who seem lost or confused, because there but for the grace of the dream gods go you!

Yes I would agree, as you never know when you might need their help?

Originally Posted by GeOh

Sorry, you do not like ld4all? I liked the experiment they did, and it related to this topic so I thought I would share it .

I'm just bias towards DreamViews. Don't mind me.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Stuff.

Thanks for the reply. I agree.

Sivason and Sageous, I just started a thread on Dream Yoga under General Lucid discussion. I am just starting this practice and would love to pick both of your brains!

Originally Posted by hermine_hesse

Sivason and Sageous, I just started a thread on Dream Yoga under General Lucid discussion. I am just starting this practice and would love to pick both of your brains!

Ok, I am working all day (14 hours) but will look at it tonight. I would be happy to post something on it.

Originally Posted by sivason

.
Staying on topic. That is why I discused the other stuff. The rules dreams and shared dreams share may not be subject to our standard physics. If in fact our entire existance is actually composed of a dream energy, then we do not need to know the mechanism. I try to come off less extreme than I actuually am, but for this thread I will tell you all what I feel I know is true. Something can exist in our world with no science behind why it exists. However, everthing will allow an explaination to appear if people care enough to find one (the science being created as our need to explain expands). Sageous commented on not knowing about the creation of the universe. I actually do believe the universe may have started yesterday or 8 years ago. No fooling, and on topic, talking as a educated and sober mind. This is on topic because the reason shared dreaming works, is possably because the nature of our existance is not actually what we precieve at all. Being composed of energy and guided by dream style control, everything is possable. Not only is it possable the universe actually began days ago, there is a very good chance that is true. If we accept my premise that our existance is very much like the Matrix except it is dream material instead of computor generated, (This is a commonly held belief amongst Yogis) then the idea of alternate realities becomes easy to accept. It would only take the belief that whatever the source of the big dream, that thing could have multiple dreaams running at one time, like a computor running multiple programs. So a new version of reality is neeeded, a suddenlly a copy of the existing reality is started on a new story line. In otherwords, a new version of everthing just popped into existance instantly, that is the entire universe or perhaps just multiple versions of a smaller area.
I think the idea of DCs being other dreamers is clearly no big stretch at all, if my version of whats going on is actually correct. I imagine each of us the owners of a tiny alternate universe, that is connected somehow to a shared alternate universe where any of us could go in our dreams. So the following possabilities exist. Someone enters your dreams, your dimension, from the shared area, and you take them to be a DC. Second and most relevent to this topic. You can leave your personal dimension and enter a shared area where many of the DCs will be other dreamers. In this area fake DCs can also exist. The result of everybodies dream control acting at one time is random, for instance if a very powerful dreamer is making it rain, you would have to accept it and make up a reason why the rain is not actually getting you wet. The thrid version is you then leave this shared area but not back to your own. You could go into someone elses dreams or travel to other dimensions beyond our understanding.

The question that I cannot discard, then, is: Should morality and virtue be adhered to within dreams?

i used to think that and then thought nah

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

The question that I cannot discard, then, is: Should morality and virtue be adhered to within dreams?

...It probably wouldn't hurt. Remember that when you are lucid, the "real" you is present in the dream. So yes, anything bad you do will not be seen by others, but the most important person of all, You, will be there to witness your actions. Think about it.

Also, in light of this thread, it wouldn't hurt to be careful, just in case there are more witnesses, or vulnerable souls, out there than you think!

Just NO.

And you can easily prove it's not true.

Dream of your mother, father.. etc..
do something to them, or go somewhere to them (etc in a car.)

When they wake up ask them if they were driving in a car.
They say no.

I rest my case.

Originally Posted by hermine_hesse

Sivason and Sageous, I just started a thread on Dream Yoga under General Lucid discussion. I am just starting this practice and would love to pick both of your brains!

Sure. I'll be there.

Originally Posted by Sageous

...It probably wouldn't hurt. Remember that when you are lucid, the "real" you is present in the dream. So yes, anything bad you do will not be seen by others, but the most important person of all, You, will be there to witness your actions. Think about it.

Also, in light of this thread, it wouldn't hurt to be careful, just in case there are more witnesses, or vulnerable souls, out there than you think!

Just depends how you, yourself, characterize the experience, I guess. If you see it as a game, such as we do with video games, then killing someone within that virtual world doesn't make you any less morally good and virtuous in the real world.

Hmm. This is actually very difficult to answer, as dreams seem to blur the line between game and reality in terms of how they affect your waking consciousness....and that's irrespective of whether the characters are real or imagined. After all, a DC being a real person is analogically the same as a video game character having a real person behind it.

Perhaps this is causing me confusion because a video game has clear defined rules, and we know the limits of that virtual reality. Whilst the dream world and it's effects on consciousness are largely unknown.

Although I have thought about the possiblity of DCs being other real people in my dreams before, I pretty much doubt that is the case. Sure it would be neat, but I'm pretty sure DCs are just random people created by your brain.

I did lucidly attempt to question some DCs a couple times. Most just plain refuse to understand what I'm telling them, others get agitated when you press them. Some others just deny being in my dream. I haven't bothered my DCs in that way since then, no need.

I suppose one way to test it would be try to become friends with one of your DCs and tell them to give you an e-mail or whatever and see if they do in real life! Crazy, huh?

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

Just depends how you, yourself, characterize the experience, I guess. If you see it as a game, such as we do with video games, then killing someone within that virtual world doesn't make you any less morally good and virtuous in the real world.

Hmm. This is actually very difficult to answer, as dreams seem to blur the line between game and reality in terms of how they affect your waking consciousness....and that's irrespective of whether the characters are real or imagined. After all, a DC being a real person is analogically the same as a video game character having a real person behind it.

Perhaps this is causing me confusion because a video game has clear defined rules, and we know the limits of that virtual reality. Whilst the dream world and it's effects on consciousness are largely unknown.

Good point.

I may be repeating you here, but I think that the major difference is that your dream is a world of your own creation, and everything in it represents projections, reflections, and interpretations of your self, especially when lucid. The dream itself might not be real, because you know you'll be waking up shortly, but its fabric most certainly is.

This cannot be said about a video game, whose world is in every respect someone else's fictional presentation (even the Sims), so it is much easier to keep your self out of the game (though I must admit I've had long conversations about video games along the same lines, since there is a chance you can immerse your self into a game and cause some damage).

And of course, if DC's are avatars of real people, this only multiplies the moral potentials.

Originally Posted by EarthInferno

I suppose one way to test it would be try to become friends with one of your DCs and tell them to give you an e-mail or whatever and see if they do in real life! Crazy, huh?

No so crazy, I think. But you might have to do it many times before you find a DC that is not of your creation -- and you know that as soon as you start looking, they're all going to say they're representing independent souls, the pesky buggers.

It might be worth a try, if only because making friends with DC's is an interesting lucid experiment (and pastime) in itself.