Thread: Study finds that video games change the way you dream

A new study found that gamers are more likely to experience lucid dreams: Video games change the way you dream.

Some select quotes:

"The major parallel between gaming and dreaming is that, in both instances, you're in an alternate reality, whether a biological construct or a technological one," [...] "It's interesting to think about how these alternate realities translate to waking consciousness, when you are actually reacting to inputs from the real world."

[...] found that during lucid dreams, gamers had control only over themselves as a character. But, much like in a game, they were also able to toggle between first and third-person point-of-view. "Gamers already know what it's like to be in control in an alternate reality," [...] "So it makes sense that a gamer would notice, ‘hey, I'm in a dream,' and know how to manipulate that situation."

[...] heavy gamers seem to be non-plussed by dreams that would qualify as nightmares — namely, those that present frightening or threatening situations. In fact, gamers seem to readily take control over (and even enjoy) such unpleasant nighttime illusions. In other words, while a non-gaming person might wake up in a cold sweat, a gamer would simply carry on with their slumber.

So... how do we script a game to help in the search for lucidity?

Perhaps as the game character runs low on hit points, subtle oddities could occasionally pop up; six fingers on a hand, a watch that skips time or text on a poster in the background that doesn't make sense. If you notice them in time, and you should only have a second to respond (like fishing in Minecraft), you get to enter an avatar state for a bit. Imagine if almost anyone playing it starts having lucid dreams!

That would be an excellent DILD training tool! It could include scenario/background morphing, and items/characters appearing/disappearing, specially when the player is not looking at them.

But video games suck your self-awareness. That is very bad for LDing

Originally Posted by LouaiB

But video games suck your self-awareness. That is very bad for LDing

I agree. Not only that, electromagnetism from artificial devices is no good for sleep

Originally Posted by LouaiB

But video games suck your self-awareness. That is very bad for LDing

I disagree--surely it would be the opposite? A video gamer understands the difference between an alternate reality and our actual five-sense reality. They understand that the character in the game is not them. And they understand that they are the player and they control the game. Surely this is self-awareness in and of its own?

If a gamer dismisses something strange as "just a bug," this means they've already assumed they're part of an alternate reality, since such things don't appear in five-sense reality. Such an understanding is only a few steps away from lucidity, if not already.

(Let me know if I'm wrong of course, I'd love to learn.)

And not only does it reduce self-awareness, it also gives an answer to everything, that person just got absorbed into the ground, "nah, it's just a bug"

hhhh, i watched the video. the game look really cool!

But video games suck your self-awareness. That is very bad for LDing

Yea video games killed my questioning ability, you don't really wonder why something is there in a video game, it just is, that philosophy carried over into dreaming for me and yea....

She's since honed that preliminary finding with subsequent studies, and also found that during lucid dreams, gamers had control only over themselves as a character. But, much like in a game, they were also able to toggle between first and third-person point-of-view. "Gamers already know what it's like to be in control in an alternate reality," she says of the finding. "So it makes sense that a gamer would notice, ‘hey, I'm in a dream,' and know how to manipulate that situation."

Also they might've screwed up on what lucid is exactly, maybe they think that because more people pick fight instead of flight, that means they're lucid? Like they say the gamers go lucid and switch to third and first person views, but even when I'm not lucid it's not hard to do that as a habit.
And the gamers only have control over themselves, which kind of hints that they aren't fully lucid, since who would want to only control themselves?

very true. We know that self-awareness is the key to LDing and LDing control. limited control means limited self-awareness. Seems like video games cause the opposite of what we want

Wait, does this mean that if i play videogames i wont be able to have lucid dreams?

http://www.dreamviews.com/general-dr...led-dream.html

I just started this thread on a lucid dreaming computer game called 'Dream' just around the time you posted your thread. Interesting topic. :-)

Looks very promising! I have forwarded my suggestions to them... lets meet up on the Story board and help Howard find meaning and steer his life in a new direction after learning to control his dreams in spurts of lucidity: Dream Board Index page!

There is a game about lucidity called "Dream". Search dream game or something and you'll find it. Its a PC game though

Originally Posted by LouaiB

But video games suck your self-awareness. That is very bad for LDing

Says who?

Originally Posted by TestingProNinja

And not only does it reduce self-awareness, it also gives an answer to everything, that person just got absorbed into the ground, "nah, it's just a bug"

That can be said for anything fictional - don't think, that this really matters.

Originally Posted by BillyTheKid

I agree. Not only that, electromagnetism from artificial devices is no good for sleep

Originally Posted by PKJacker

Yea video games killed my questioning ability, you don't really wonder why something is there in a video game, it just is, that philosophy carried over into dreaming for me and yea....

And yea what?

Originally Posted by PKJacker

Also they might've screwed up on what lucid is exactly, maybe they think that because more people pick fight instead of flight, that means they're lucid? Like they say the gamers go lucid and switch to third and first person views, but even when I'm not lucid it's not hard to do that as a habit.
And the gamers only have control over themselves, which kind of hints that they aren't fully lucid, since who would want to only control themselves?

First of all - of course they know, what lucidity is if they make such a study - and it is not about picking fight - it is about becoming self-aware from the situation - like the kids, who start LD as defence mechanism against their nightmares - just sounds like gaming provides the necessary background awareness, that you can fight anything in a simulation.
Also - what do you mean - when you are not lucid, it is easy to switch to third person perspective?
When you say easy - that means you want to do something intentionally - something not possible in real life - how can that be possible when you are not lucid??
I know sometimes dreams can appear 3rd person perspective - but that has got nothing to do with something being easy for you to do on purpose.
And how does it make sense that people who game can only control themselves - how does that follow??
Besides - of course I can be fully lucid without controlling the environment - that is my choice what I do and what not!

How do you come to all these wild theories - none of which make the slightest sense to me!

Originally Posted by LouaiB

very true. We know that self-awareness is the key to LDing and LDing control. limited control means limited self-awareness. Seems like video games cause the opposite of what we want

How come it seems so? There is a study, which says the opposite!!

What the study shows is that gamers have more control besides more LDs - so it would follow from your view to say they also have more self-awareness.
Which makes sense actually - being able to take on the roles of characters and play their point of view out - I can imagine, that broadens awareness.

Originally Posted by NinjaBtch

Wait, does this mean that if i play videogames i wont be able to have lucid dreams?

No!!
There is a scientific study which says the opposite!
All these comments above - sorry to say - but that is just cliché clopping and stuff coming to peoples mind on the topic without any backing!!
Would be cool to have the study linked up - the quotes seem not sufficient to overcome the above sentiments.
So people could look at data and not echo to each other, what mum used to say - videogaming is baaaaaaad for you..
It's not!
See link below for two studies on cognition boosting - esp. in the elderly.
Only thing bad about gaming in my eyes is the addictive potential it has - people overdoing them.

By the way - here is a nice other study I posted a while ago:

http://www.dreamviews.com/science-ma...cognition.html

Here is the link to the article again: theverge.com/2014/1/21/5330636/video-games-effect-on-dreams, and here is the paper: psycnet.apa.org/journals/drm/23/4/256. But I don't believe anyone read's the articles anymore these days, that is why I tried with the quotes.

First of all, hello

And yea what?

That "yea..." basically just meant that it killed my lucid dreams since I stopped having that moment where I go "Hey maybe this isn't actually real" and going lucid. I just got used to having weird stuff happening from playing video games.

First of all - of course they know, what lucidity is if they make such a study - and it is not about picking fight - it is about becoming self-aware from the situation - like the kids, who start LD as defence mechanism against their nightmares - just sounds like gaming provides the necessary background awareness, that you can fight anything in a simulation.

It could be that the gamers think they are lucid when they aren't?
And for me fighting in regular dreams has become routine, like I've violently killed many things while not being lucid, you just see the problem and think of what weapon to use to kill it =)

Also - what do you mean - when you are not lucid, it is easy to switch to third person perspective?
When you say easy - that means you want to do something intentionally - something not possible in real life - how can that be possible when you are not lucid??

I'm basically saying what I said before, it's just routine to switch to third person if you're used to fighting things in third person.
Normally people aren't fighting in their regular lives, and instead inside a video game, so isn't it just natural to pick a fighting position you are most comfortable with if all you play is third person games?

And how does it make sense that people who game can only control themselves - how does that follow??
Besides - of course I can be fully lucid without controlling the environment - that is my choice what I do and what not!

I'm honestly just saying, how come the gamers wouldn't manipulate their environment and other things if they had a chance to?
"She's since honed that preliminary finding with subsequent studies, and also found that during lucid dreams, gamers had control only over themselves as a character."
Why didn't they have control over other things other than the character? (never going to be fully answered btw since her article has to be purchased)

What the study shows is that gamers have more control besides more LDs - so it would follow from your view to say they also have more self-awareness.

Ok so I read the first article on that link, found literally nothing to do with becoming lucid and instead it focused on multitasking, I'm assuming the other article is also focusing on multitasking, I do not care about multitasking because that it not what is being talked about here, unless you can provide a good reason why those relate to this topic, then I will read both articles.

And addressing the self awareness, gaming kills that for me. You are no longer self aware when you play a video game, instead you are fully focusing your attention on the screen. I do not feel pain when playing video games (don't ask how I tested this please) and I don't notice myself breathing or blinking (mostly because I barely blink when gaming). I am certainly not self aware when gaming, and since I basically lose my self awareness for the period I'm gaming and then for a while afterwards if I game for a while, it makes me less likely to have a lucid dream that night.

There is a scientific study which says the opposite!

Ok please link that to me if you aren't referring to the study posted here already by IAmCoder

and here is the paper: psycnet.apa.org/journals/drm/23/4/256.

Sadly I don't have the money to unlock the full paper.

There's an earlier paper by the same researcher here, which you can access for free. It has similar results, showing a correlation between gaming and lucidity, and it goes into more detail about her methods.

There's always exceptions to the rule, but the research shows that on average, gamers are more likely to have lucid dreams.

Which makes sense to me. When I'm playing a game, I'm interacting with an imaginary world, just like a non-lucid dream - except that with a game, on some level I'm always aware that none of this is real. It makes sense to me that this awareness might carry over into dreaming.

I agree with you Steph, but I meant it this way:
Actual video game playing during the day is bad for self-awareness, and is bad if you are training your self-awareness(like using RRC). of course you can use other tech for inducing LD that don't really rely on self-awareness(like MILD), but I aid the self-awareness approach for LDing induction(and definitely dream control).

Maybe playing them moderately won't effect your self-awareness, but if played a lot, you would be sucked in the video game universe(that means no self-awareness during) for a long time. If you do RRC, that is bad, and won't let you be able to train your self-awareness much.

tl;dr: So, I mean when you are playing the game, you are in no way "connected to your self"(you know what I mean), so it is bad(if for a long time) for your self-awareness. I love video games. I will buy that "dream" game. I watched it's hour and a half videos too!

Originally Posted by LouaiB

Maybe playing them moderately won't effect your self-awareness, but if played a lot, you would be sucked in the video game universe(that means no self-awareness during) for a long time.

That older paper covers exactly what you're talking about in the section on flow, and turns out it's actually the other way around. Getting absorbed by the game is good for lucidity, but only if you're playing a lot. If you don't play so much, then being absorbed by the game is linked with night terrors instead.

The paper doesn't say whether any of the subjects were deliberately inducing LDs, or if they were all natural. So it's possible that flow could interfere with specific induction methods, maybe. But if natural LDs are caused by awareness, then based on this research, video games interfering with self-awareness isn't an issue.

I mean the long term. Playing a lot of video games could induce LDs, but is bad for self-awareness training.

Originally Posted by LouaiB

I mean the long term. Playing a lot of video games could induce LDs, but is bad for self-awareness training.

Based on what, though?

Self-awareness is when you are aware of your existence. Are you when you're sucked in the video game? Any activity can do that, but video games and tv seem to do that to a level that is just brutal.

Like I said, that's covered in the paper in the section about flow. They actually compare it to a higher state of consciousness - that sort of intense focus might help develop awareness in the long-term. The dream research would seem to back this up.

But not Self-awareness .

I disagree--surely it would be the opposite? A video gamer understands the difference between an alternate reality and our actual five-sense reality. They understand that the character in the game is not them. And they understand that they are the player and they control the game. Surely this is self-awareness in and of its own?

If a gamer dismisses something strange as "just a bug," this means they've already assumed they're part of an alternate reality, since such things don't appear in five-sense reality. Such an understanding is only a few steps away from lucidity, if not already.

(Let me know if I'm wrong of course, I'd love to learn.)

For me personally, I basically get sucked into the game, where if I want to look to the left, I'll move my mouse, I want to walk backwards, I'll press S, everything in the game IS the reality in that moment, since otherwise if you get distracted, you could die.

So when I am in a dream, I assume the character in the dream without a second thought, I could even know full well the person I'm controlling is not me, but I won't go lucid since I'm not thinking about my real life, I'm only thinking about what's happening in the dream.

And I call bugs bugs, since I set up my own little rules to the dream already taking my prior knowledge from the limits of most games, and whatever goes against that is something that shouldn't be there, but not something to question the existence of the game over. Why would you question a game?