Thread: Does Meditation Take the Place of Awarness?

The simplified explanation is that meditation (at least the basic ones) is the practice you do so that you learn what being "aware" is like, through consistent practice that will spill over into the rest of your life.

The key in everything is staying with it, if you stop meditating for a while you start from scratch.

Of course you can meditate hard for 20 minutes every day but if it's too much effort you'll just stop doing it and ruin any results you're getting, same for ADA; just do 5 - 10 minutes whenever you feel like you need to gather some energy during the day, it doesn't even need to be serious seated meditation, you can take 5 while eating or walking or sitting on the toilet. =]

The more effort you put in however the more you get out of it, the advice I was given when I said that meditation wasn't effecting me in a greatly obvious way was "sit longer!".

Originally Posted by Memm

The simplified explanation is that meditation (at least the basic ones) is the practice you do so that you learn what being "aware" is like, through consistent practice that will spill over into the rest of your life.

The key in everything is staying with it, if you stop meditating for a while you start from scratch.

Of course you can meditate hard for 20 minutes every day but if it's too much effort you'll just stop doing it and ruin any results you're getting, same for ADA; just do 5 - 10 minutes whenever you feel like you need to gather some energy during the day, it doesn't even need to be serious seated meditation, you can take 5 while eating or walking or sitting on the toilet. =]

The more effort you put in however the more you get out of it, the advice I was given when I said that meditation wasn't effecting me in a greatly obvious way was "sit longer!".

Thanks for the reply, but that wasn't really what I was asking. My question was...does meditation take the place of Self-Awareness awareness practices? I have been doing Self-Awareness for about a month now so I'm pretty good at that. But I was curious if meditation would give you the full effects that doing Self-Awareness does, but in a shorter time.

Meditation, at least the way I do it for LD, is maintaining and raising your self-awareness. So in a sense, being self-aware whole day is like meditating whole day. That's what we should be striving for. Meditation is the key to awareness which is the key to lucid dreaming.

Originally Posted by Sharpshoey

Thanks for the reply, but that wasn't really what I was asking. My question was...does meditation take the place of Self-Awareness awareness practices? I have been doing Self-Awareness for about a month now so I'm pretty good at that. But I was curious if meditation would give you the full effects that doing Self-Awareness does, but in a shorter time.

Well meditation would produce higher quality awareness, the rest depends on you really.

Originally Posted by Memm

Well meditation would produce higher quality awareness, the rest depends on you really.

This.

Originally Posted by Memm

Well meditation would produce higher quality awareness, the rest depends on you really.

well said...

I'm sorry if that's not overly helpful, there are just so many things to consider; I think meditating (assuming seated) for 20 minutes would make it easier to be aware all day, but even then it's possible you'll get up from meditation and spend the rest of your day on autopilot because of thoughts like "well I've done my meditation, now I can do whatever I want".

On the other hand 20 minute meditation would calm your mind, leading you to be peaceful and aware up until life kicks you in the butt and you "roll back down the hill" mentally.

What I'm trying to say is it's the attitude that matters not the technique, either way you're aiming for all day mindfulness, meditating is one of the tools.

If you walk every day perhaps do walking meditation as part of your routine, if you want exercise then do zhan zhuang, if you're tired of everything and just want to sit down then do seated meditation, hungry then eat mindfully, sleepy then do sleep.

I think the answer to the original question is "no," meditation does not take the place of day-long self-awareness. Day-long self-awareness is usually the goal of all mindfulness practices. Meditation is focused self-awareness practice where you purposefully set aside all other activities to focus entirely and only on the awareness. It shows you "this is what self-awareness is like", and it gives you momentum to continue the practice all through the day.

you're aiming for all day mindfulness, meditating is one of the tools.

That's a better summary of what I was trying to say.

You might be asking the wrong question, Sharpshoey.

As others have already said above, and said well, meditation is a tool for self-awareness, so you will likely find yourself including meditation as a facet of your practice to gain and hold self-awareness. Also, I would suggest that you consider Samatha or Vipassana meditation, as their focus seems to mix well with lucid dreaming.

But the real question you might need to ask is: "What is self-awareness, and how do I bring it into my life?"

Though you were likely just phrasing it this way in your OP, you do not "Do" self-awareness. It is not a technique, but a state of mind -- perhaps even a state of being. The techniques that you actually do, like for instance meditation, are meant to open the door to your self-awareness, to invite it into your daily life more easily.

Self-awareness is, after all, simply a state of mind wherein you remember that you are here, that you have an effect on everything around you, and everything around you has an effect on you. And yes, if you can maintain that state of mind regularly, especially during dreams, lucidity will be much easier to achieve -- it might even be unavoidable... not to mention that powerful self-awareness will also make your LD's easier to navigate, prolong, and understand. In other words, a state of self-awareness is where you want to be, and not a thing you do.

I think I'm generally repeating what's already been said, but I just wanted to make it clear that self-awareness is not a technique.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

it gives you momentum to continue the practice all through the day.

Momentum! That's the word I was looking for. =D

Not being a very patterned oriented person, I've had trouble making time to meditate on a regular basis. However, I've noticed a big difference between the times I'm meditating more often (several times a week) versus when I let it go for a while... meditation really helps train the kind of breath-centered focus that helps me pull off a decent WILD attempt. When I don't meditate for a while, I start to notice even at random times throughout the day how shallow and irregular my breathing feels, and it becomes harder to use good breath technique when I'm trying to get lucid.

Most people talk about the mental effects of meditation, and I'm sure those are very helpful too, but for me as a perpetual beginner, the improvements to my breathing are the most obvious result of more regular meditation practice.

Thanks for the replies everyone! I was just curious to see if meditation did take the place of all day practice because if it did, I would have wondered why we would do it all day instead. I should have known better though, because nothing comes easy right?

Originally Posted by Sageous

You might be asking the wrong question, Sharpshoey.

As others have already said above, and said well, meditation is a tool for self-awareness, so you will likely find yourself including meditation as a facet of your practice to gain and hold self-awareness. Also, I would suggest that you consider Samatha or Vipassana meditation, as their focus seems to mix well with lucid dreaming.

But the real question you might need to ask is: "What is self-awareness, and how do I bring it into my life?"

Though you were likely just phrasing it this way in your OP, you do not "Do" self-awareness. It is not a technique, but a state of mind -- perhaps even a state of being. The techniques that you actually do, like for instance meditation, are meant to open the door to your self-awareness, to invite it into your daily life more easily.

Self-awareness is, after all, simply a state of mind wherein you remember that you are here, that you have an effect on everything around you, and everything around you has an effect on you. And yes, if you can maintain that state of mind regularly, especially during dreams, lucidity will be much easier to achieve -- it might even be unavoidable... not to mention that powerful self-awareness will also make your LD's easier to navigate, prolong, and understand. In other words, a state of self-awareness is where you want to be, and not a thing you do.

I think I'm generally repeating what's already been said, but I just wanted to make it clear that self-awareness is not a technique.

I guess I haven't really thought of self-awareness like that before. I've been doing it as a technique where I've just been paying attention to what I was doing and what was happening in the moment. I knew what the state of mind for self-awareness is, but that was really never at the forefront of my mind. I also never really thought that self-awareness wasn't a technique. Now that you explain it though, it makes since that it isn't.

So what you're saying is, to just realize that I have an effect on everything, and it has an effect on me and that I'm here right now? Are you saying that is all I need to do...just have that state of mind? Or is paying attention like I'm doing go with that as well?

Also, from what it sounds like, meditation is supposed to help you grasp the Self-Awareness and then help you keep it for the rest of the day. So I should be doing it in the morning? And Vipassana Meditation sounds a lot like Samatha meditation from what I've looked up on Google. Is there a big difference between the 2?

(Sorry for all the questions)

Apparently the best time to meditate is at sunrise, so 5am.

Originally Posted by Sharpshoey

Also, from what it sounds like, meditation is supposed to help you grasp the Self-Awareness and then help you keep it for the rest of the day. So I should be doing it in the morning? And Vipassana Meditation sounds a lot like Samatha meditation from what I've looked up on Google. Is there a big difference between the 2?

(Sorry for all the questions)

This is a good question! From Chanmyay Yeiktha Buddhist Meditation Centre - Myanmar (Burma)

The purpose of samatha meditation is to attain higher concentration of the mind

The purpose of vipassana meditation is to attain nibbana or liberation through realisation of the mind/body process and their true nature

The relationship between the two:

Sometimes, when we find it difficult to concentrate the mind by means of vipassana meditation, we have to use samatha for some time so that we can concentrate our mind well on the object of meditation.

Having attained deep concentration of the mind, we return to vipassana and observe whatever arises in body and mind as it really occurs.

Meditation is about clearing your mind, relaxing your body and focusing inward to channel the power of your mind. Meditation makes all day awareness easier and is very helpful in realizing the true beauty of the moment and the moments in between what we consider good and bad events throughout our lives.

I am not certain if meditation can take the place of all day awareness, but it is a powerful too. I would suggest continuing to do dream yoga if it makes sense to you and it helps you lucid dream.

As far as awareness, stop quiet your mind in both waking moments and in those dreams that you are lucid in. This can help you detect the very subtle difference in the general feel of both dreams and waking life.

Meditating in the morning can help prepare for a more focused and aware workday. Meditating at night is truly amazing for promoting relaxation and sleep (though these are not necessarily the goals).

As long as you are meditating, you should be fine. But it is suggested that 5 AM, being the hour of the lung, is the best time to meditate.

So I don't really get what the vipassana meditation is. Do I just relax and then concentrate on my breathing alone? Or would you recommend I just clear my mind of thoughts and then focus on myself and being in the moment?

I am thinking the meditation where I am aware of "me" would be more beneficial because its more focused on self awareness, but I could be wrong. I just don't get how focusing on breathing would help with lucid dreaming?

EDIT: I have actually just found a great source explaining in detail how to do Vipassana so I don't need an explanation for that...thanks anyways though

http://www.wildmind.org/mindfulness

Just be careful to try and balance out concentration and mindfulness and don't push yourself, if you feel uneasy about anything then take a break.

I thought that I'd post this here, its not really a question, but I feel like I should post this.

So I found how to do the vipassana meditation from ctharlie's post about mindfulness meditation. In it, it said that when doing the meditation you should just make a note of every sensation you have, so that the thought has no more power anymore and just moves on. It worked amazingly for the meditation, I was able to stay in the moment most of the time (I did it for 15 minutes and towards the end I couldn't hold awareness for more than a couple seconds before my mind started wandering). But I noticed something...when I got up and continued the mindfulness practice that I would do for the rest of the day, I realized that making notes of each thought wasn't very practical.

It seemed to draw me more into the thought rather than push it along, so I wasn't in the moment. I am just reverting back to what I was doing before for mindfulness all day. Which is where I am just aware and I keep my thoughts focused on the moment, I don't do anything to stay in the moment, I just am. This is what I have been doing and I will continue doing this during the day, as its been working for me. Kinda weird though how noting different things works for me while meditating, but not while I'm up and around. Maybe its the different mindset you're in?

Also, I may not have been doing Self-Awareness at all, maybe I just thought I was doing was Self-Awareness. I figured out I was actually doing mindfulness, which I thought was the same thing as self-awareness. Now I think that it may be a bit different, bu I may be wrong again and it could be the same . Anyway, I've already been doing mindfulness for about a month now so I'm not going to start over with a new awareness technique, and mindfulness is working for me so I don't know why I would switch techniques anyways.