Thread: Do Natural Born Lucid Dreamers have things in common?

Well true that the nightmares were a sort of catalyst. But really it was a lot like learning how to swim by falling into the deepend of a swimming pool unsupervised.

Originally Posted by RebelSeven

So what aspects make it someones nature to be a lucid dreamer? A lot of you brought up the nightmares thing. But nightmares are NOT the mechanism, they are a catalyst. People who become lucid thanks to frequent nightmares have something in their nature that leads them to REACT to nightmares with lucidity, it's not the nightmares that cause lucidity. So to really define what you are talking about, you would want to identify the characteristics in a person that cause their lucids in this way.

I think "natural" lucidity is a product of the environment a person is living in, which cultivates a certain state of mind that's good for lucidity. Also I think kids (in a kid-friendly environment) can LD easily, talking about techniques and such is an "adult" problem, if you tell a kid they can do whatever they want in their dreams they'll just do it. Reason is kids have less things setting them back mentally, less inhibitions if you will, not all of course but generally speaking.

So let's be more like kids; less anxieties more uninhibited awareness. =]

Originally Posted by SinisterDezz

Your definition of a natural is so far off.
I still put a ton of effort into lucid dreaming, and I am a natural.

I don't know any other naturals, so I wouldn't know anything we have in common.

Why would you consider yourself natural? When I think of natural, I think of without effort. There is a girl in my school who didn't even know the phrase "lucid dreaming" yet knew she was dreaming every single dream she had and could control them perfectly, yet had never made any effort to.

I used to lucid dream naturally. One thing that I had as a kid was an amazing imagination. I could put myself in completely different world's even when I was awake. I can still have very vivid day dreams.

I am an introvert. I do not really believe in the paranormal but weird shit does happen. And I would say I have less senses than average people.

Yeah, I had that imagination too. Still do as a matter of fact. Some times I have to work to keep from daydreaming.
Introvert as a child, not so much now,
Had nightmares and recurring dreams that led me to lucid dreaming at about 12 or so.
I wouldn't say I believe in supernatural so much as I admit that strange stuff does happen.
Dabbled in witchcraft as a youth. I still find it interesting and may try learning more about pagan rituals and American Indian rituals. (Nothing Dark)

Since this seems to be getting out of hand, I will not be replying to anything on this thread. If you have questions, you can send me a personal message.

This is my explanation of natural lucid dreamer from MY OWN experience.

As a pre teen/early teen, I became aware that I was having a nightmare and around the same time I had an instance of being half in, half out of a dream Things ion my room that were actually there were blending in with my dreamscape then I had SP and it scared the crap out of me. This was the only time I ever crawled into my mom and dads bed because of a bad dream. That was some 30 years ago. Since that time, I began recognizing that I was in a dream and that gave me comfort when things were scary or nonsensical. I had repetitive dreams and some how I learned that I could change my dreams if I paid attention to them (might have been a movie, possibly one with Dennis Quaid in the early 1980's about dreaming that gave me the idea. Not really sure.)
Since then I am almost always aware that I am dreaming. Most of the time I just acknowledge that I am dreaming and leave it at that. Sometimes I actively do things in my dreams to change the dream usually without any intent beforehand to do so. Sometimes I remember large parts of my lucid dreams that I actively participate in, and sometimes just bits and pieces. Sometimes I only remember that I was lucid dreaming and doing cool stuff or met a particular objective, but I may not recall exactly what the objective was. This has been my MO for about 30 years as I said.
Lately, I have been doing a version of WILD that is my own (as far as I know). I call it dream seeding. I just lay down and get comfortable, control my breathing and imagine a scenario that I would like to dream about. I vividly imagine the layout of the land, colors, night and day, objects etc etc. I imagine myself exploring this fantasy area until my mind adds to the scenario with out conscious effort. Usually at this point I know I am dreaming and just continue with my fantasy/lucid dream.
Im sorry if it seems simple to some, but this comes fairly easily to me. I have never done a reality check or attempted to roll out of my body during a WILD. I rarely get SP, but I do very rarely get vibrations. (usually with meditation and AP) I would not attempt a DILD, but Im sure it's happened and I just didn't know there was a name for it.
I know that many people have to work to get the skills they have, and Im sure If I worked harder and participated in some of the lucid dream challenges, I would gain more control, skills etc. I have been working on some things in my own way lately, but I make up my own stuff. Sometimes I get good ideas from others here and I have learned a lot about Lucid Dreaming from this site and members, but the excitement wore off a long time ago. For me, it is kind of a chore to do things the way most of you'all do them.

Anyway, hopefully that might help with the OP's curiosity about natural lucid dreaming. This is just my experience.
As far as RH and the other things OP asked about, I have no idea other than what I posted. I was and still am to a degree very artistic. I would consider myself an illustrator. Meaning when I draw something, it looks real and very detailed, not distorted or abstract. I also had that skill very early. (about the same time I began Lucid Dreaming) if that helps.

EDIT:
So I just looked up that movie with Dennis Quaid. Dreamsacape. I had to LOL after watching some of it. But it may have been what gave me the idea to change the outcomes of childhood nightmares and recurring bad dreams.
here is a link to a version with really bad subtitle. I didn't realize it was about dream sharing and dream/sleep espionage.
* may contain nudity if mods want to watch the whole thing and edit it. I didnt see all of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0lsoPhBu00

I would say all lucid dreamers have commonalities such as being deep thinkers, skeptical of reality/curious about the afterlife, more in-touch with themselves, etc. At least from my experience and talking to other lucid dreamers.

I'd say I'm a decent lucid dreamer but have a lot to learn.. but for the record:
-introvert
-spiritual not religious
-B negative blood type
-Open minded
-20/20 vision, hearing, smelling (if that's a thing)

Originally Posted by kadie

This is my explanation of natural lucid dreamer from MY OWN experience.

As a pre teen/early teen, I became aware that I was having a nightmare and around the same time I had an instance of being half in, half out of a dream Things ion my room that were actually there were blending in with my dreamscape then I had SP and it scared the crap out of me. This was the only time I ever crawled into my mom and dads bed because of a bad dream. That was some 30 years ago. Since that time, I began recognizing that I was in a dream and that gave me comfort when things were scary or nonsensical. I had repetitive dreams and some how I learned that I could change my dreams if I paid attention to them (might have been a movie, possibly one with Dennis Quaid in the early 1980's about dreaming that gave me the idea. Not really sure.)
Since then I am almost always aware that I am dreaming. Most of the time I just acknowledge that I am dreaming and leave it at that. Sometimes I actively do things in my dreams to change the dream usually without any intent beforehand to do so. Sometimes I remember large parts of my lucid dreams that I actively participate in, and sometimes just bits and pieces. Sometimes I only remember that I was lucid dreaming and doing cool stuff or met a particular objective, but I may not recall exactly what the objective was. This has been my MO for about 30 years as I said.
Lately, I have been doing a version of WILD that is my own (as far as I know). I call it dream seeding. I just lay down and get comfortable, control my breathing and imagine a scenario that I would like to dream about. I vividly imagine the layout of the land, colors, night and day, objects etc etc. I imagine myself exploring this fantasy area until my mind adds to the scenario with out conscious effort. Usually at this point I know I am dreaming and just continue with my fantasy/lucid dream.
Im sorry if it seems simple to some, but this comes fairly easily to me. I have never done a reality check or attempted to roll out of my body during a WILD. I rarely get SP, but I do very rarely get vibrations. (usually with meditation and AP) I would not attempt a DILD, but Im sure it's happened and I just didn't know there was a name for it.
I know that many people have to work to get the skills they have, and Im sure If I worked harder and participated in some of the lucid dream challenges, I would gain more control, skills etc. I have been working on some things in my own way lately, but I make up my own stuff. Sometimes I get good ideas from others here and I have learned a lot about Lucid Dreaming from this site and members, but the excitement wore off a long time ago. For me, it is kind of a chore to do things the way most of you'all do them.

Anyway, hopefully that might help with the OP's curiosity about natural lucid dreaming. This is just my experience.
As far as RH and the other things OP asked about, I have no idea other than what I posted. I was and still am to a degree very artistic. I would consider myself an illustrator. Meaning when I draw something, it looks real and very detailed, not distorted or abstract. I also had that skill very early. (about the same time I began Lucid Dreaming) if that helps.

EDIT:
So I just looked up that movie with Dennis Quaid. Dreamsacape. I had to LOL after watching some of it. But it may have been what gave me the idea to change the outcomes of childhood nightmares and recurring bad dreams.
here is a link to a version with really bad subtitle. I didn't realize it was about dream sharing and dream/sleep espionage.
* may contain nudity if mods want to watch the whole thing and edit it. I didnt see all of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0lsoPhBu00

Lol one of those corny movies you can't stop watching. It was entertaining enough though and I appreciate the subject matter.

Originally Posted by florodude

Why would you consider yourself natural? When I think of natural, I think of without effort. There is a girl in my school who didn't even know the phrase "lucid dreaming" yet knew she was dreaming every single dream she had and could control them perfectly, yet had never made any effort to.

I agree. Would also think of a natural ld as one which happened with little to no effort. If you have to work at it then it isn't happening naturally on its own. I put in a lot of effort towards building dream control but very little effort at gaining/maintaining lucidity. What i do is like a constant rc, I simply try to be aware all or as much of the time as possible, both while awake and carries over into sleep. I have been doing it for a long time so at this point it works like a background process and doesn't require much attention to maintain.

Initially it required much effort to get down but was worth it in the longrun to achieve near effortless near 100% lucidity. I still dreamed naturally as a child way before i had heard of lucid dreaming, but not all the time, and sometimes I would gain lucidity only to lose it later. Now it feels like maybe I can retain lucidity even through nonrem cycles even though non-rem dreams aren't usually much fun. I could be wrong about it being true nonrem but that is what it seems like.

Originally Posted by florodude

Why would you consider yourself natural? When I think of natural, I think of without effort. There is a girl in my school who didn't even know the phrase "lucid dreaming" yet knew she was dreaming every single dream she had and could control them perfectly, yet had never made any effort to.

Yea that's what I would consder a natural lucid dreamer to be also. My definition of a natural has come about mainly becasue there is a phrase in the English lanuage which goes "you're a natural" This is something people say when somebody takes to learining a new skill very easily. Lets say for example someone who has never swung a golf club in their life decides to take up golfing. They buy the required equipment and take to the green. They then start playing and, unknown to them are playing very well for an absolute beginner. Now if an experienced golfer was to observe this without interfeering in any way shape or form, they would consider the person to be naturally very good at golf, ie. a natural golfer. I believe the same can be said for some lucid dreamers.

Originally Posted by Dreamzilla

I agree. Would also think of a natural ld as one which happened with little to no effort. If you have to work at it then it isn't happening naturally on its own. I put in a lot of effort towards building dream control but very little effort at gaining/maintaining lucidity. What i do is like a constant rc, I simply try to be aware all or as much of the time as possible, both while awake and carries over into sleep. I have been doing it for a long time so at this point it works like a background process and doesn't require much attention to maintain.

Initially it required much effort to get down but was worth it in the longrun to achieve near effortless near 100% lucidity. I still dreamed naturally as a child way before i had heard of lucid dreaming, but not all the time, and sometimes I would gain lucidity only to lose it later. Now it feels like maybe I can retain lucidity even through nonrem cycles even though non-rem dreams aren't usually much fun. I could be wrong about it being true nonrem but that is what it seems like.

How long did it take you until being aware constantly became easier? I'm asking because I know many people, including myself, who are struggling with this.

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

How long did it take you until being aware constantly became easier? I'm asking because I know many people, including myself, who are struggling with this.

Well, i've experimented most my life but that particular technique took around 6months to a year(with breaks) of trial and error and regular practice to really sink in and become more second nature. It is also still being refined, i mean i am def not 100% aware of everything all the time lol.The beginning was the worst, and i would often lose focus. It really is not easy to go from being a robot set to autopilot through most of your life to being aware of as much as possible. It is like trying to reprogram your mind and how your thoughts work. Not impossible, though not easy for sure. Just as example most ppl seem to go to the bathroom in their own home, do their business n leave to go about other activities all automatically without thinking too much about operating the door, clothing, lightswitch, flush, sink, ect. When you sit down to eat a meal, do you consciously take time to observe every chew, every flavor and smell, every single bite? The boring mundane repetitive type of things seem to be the easiest ways to turn on autopilot and not even realize it.

I actually read about conscious or mindful eating in a book somewhere and ended up using in my training. I would recommend looking into it if you are trying to gain more awareness. The same concepts can be applied to things other than just eating.

It could possibly help to record things like situations most likely to engage autopilot and ways to counter issues individually as they arise, ect.

My theory is that naturals probably have vivid-dream-friendly brain chemistry: something like limited acetylcholinesterase production. They're also usually interested in/paying attention to dreams for many decades, from childhood on.

Originally Posted by Memm

I think "natural" lucidity is a product of the environment a person is living in, which cultivates a certain state of mind that's good for lucidity. Also I think kids (in a kid-friendly environment) can LD easily, talking about techniques and such is an "adult" problem, if you tell a kid they can do whatever they want in their dreams they'll just do it. Reason is kids have less things setting them back mentally, less inhibitions if you will, not all of course but generally speaking.

So let's be more like kids; less anxieties more uninhibited awareness. =]

That sounds quite wonderful, actually.

I believe one major reason why children tend to become lucid more often is because they are simply more curious about their environment, because there is still a lot of stuff that's new to them.
This might also explain why they often seem to be so excited about everything - because waking life itself kind of feels like a lucid dream to them, because of this constant curiosity and fascination of their surroundings.

Originally Posted by Laurelindo

That sounds quite wonderful, actually.

I believe one major reason why children tend to become lucid more often is because they are simply more curious about their environment, because there is still a lot of stuff that's new to them.
This might also explain why they often seem to be so excited about everything - because waking life itself kind of feels like a lucid dream to them, because of this constant curiosity and fascination of their surroundings.

That's a good point you made and something I've never considered before. I also think that the reason kids are so excited all the time is becasue they are in the moment 100%. Look at all fundamental spiritual teachings and you will see that they all say joy is not something which you must go out and seek. Joy is found in the here and now and can be attained be anyone. Kids are masters at this. They live in the now 100%. People talk about using awareness to help with their lucidity. What that really means is staying in the moment. Most people are not actually living in the present. Their minds are in the future or the past or on some topic that has nothing to do with what they're doing at the present moment. You can therefore say that most people are totally out of touch with reality. This is quite ironic becasue the vast majority of the people who think in that way believe that someone who is a very spiritual person is out of touch with reality when quite the opposite is actually true. I believe that the natural state for humans to be in is in the present. I do not believe our conscoiusness is designed to operate in the way that most people are using it and history shows us that our consciousness is actually less efficient operating in that manner. Just look at all the great spiritual leaders. They all lived in the moment 100%. It's plain to see that they were making a far better job of mastering life than people who do not live in the moment. Kids are a great reminder that we humans naturally belong in the moment. It's no effort for them to be like that becasue that's the way we are from birth. It's only after years of watching adults and being taught how to use their consciousness is a different way that makes humans loose touch with reality.

Originally Posted by Dreamzilla

Well, i've experimented most my life but that particular technique took around 6months to a year(with breaks) of trial and error and regular practice to really sink in and become more second nature. It is also still being refined, i mean i am def not 100% aware of everything all the time lol.The beginning was the worst, and i would often lose focus. It really is not easy to go from being a robot set to autopilot through most of your life to being aware of as much as possible. It is like trying to reprogram your mind and how your thoughts work. Not impossible, though not easy for sure. Just as example most ppl seem to go to the bathroom in their own home, do their business n leave to go about other activities all automatically without thinking too much about operating the door, clothing, lightswitch, flush, sink, ect. When you sit down to eat a meal, do you consciously take time to observe every chew, every flavor and smell, every single bite? The boring mundane repetitive type of things seem to be the easiest ways to turn on autopilot and not even realize it.

I actually read about conscious or mindful eating in a book somewhere and ended up using in my training. I would recommend looking into it if you are trying to gain more awareness. The same concepts can be applied to things other than just eating.

It could possibly help to record things like situations most likely to engage autopilot and ways to counter issues individually as they arise, ect.

Do you really have to be mindful of the tiny details? Those really bore me. What about being mindful of the larger picture, such as where you are and what's going on? Would it work well with that too?

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

Do you really have to be mindful of the tiny details? Those really bore me. What about being mindful of the larger picture, such as where you are and what's going on? Would it work well with that too?

Being mindful of the small and mundane details is extra important because those are normally things which do not draw our conscious attention and send us into autopilot. Big picture stuff is important to this tech too though. Being always observant of your thoughts, senses, surroundings, ect, almost like a state of constant skepticism/curiosity or creating a pseudo awareness within your regular level of awareness.

I'm mostly self taught so lack proper terms n have trouble explaining things in words.. direct mind 2 mind telepathy would be much more efficient lol.

Anyways, if you want to start off I would recommend starting off small, like perhaps start off with just getting into the habbit of mindful eating every day, then extend your mindfulness from there to more activities, specifically targeting things which uniquely cause you to go on autopilot. Try to recognize when you are in an autopilot state and passively observe how it affects you then try to be less and less of a robot.

You wont get to near 100% ld rate through this overnight and nor will it be easy, but even if you never make it to that point, even just a little extra overall mindfullness and knowledge of how your mind works could have its own benefits.

Thanks for the explanations. Yes I'm well aware it takes a long time to build strong awareness.
Thing is, I remember having dreams where I was paying attention to the small details, but not a shred of lucidity came. Whereas in other dreams I have noticed I was in a strange location, or something in my surroundings was weird, or something generally strange was going on, and became lucid. So I hope you understand my skepticism, I think it can be different for other people, not sure, this mindfulness thing seems so tricky, especially in the context of lucid dreaming.

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

Thanks for the explanations. Yes I'm well aware it takes a long time to build strong awareness.
Thing is, I remember having dreams where I was paying attention to the small details, but not a shred of lucidity came. Whereas in other dreams I have noticed I was in a strange location, or something in my surroundings was weird, or something generally strange was going on, and became lucid. So I hope you understand my skepticism, I think it can be different for other people, not sure, this mindfulness thing seems so tricky, especially in the context of lucid dreaming.

Yea I understand and this isn't for everyone. The idea is to be aware as much as possible to increase the chances that when strange things do happen you will take the time to notice vs just accepting any wild thing that happens as reality and not questioning and monitoring things like where am i, what am i doing right now, ect. Over time the ability to differentiate between dream vs reality will increase as more attention is being paid to any available data.

What I do works in a similar way to what waking nomad calls omnilucidity: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...100%-time.html
With omnilucidity the focus is mostly on 2 rcs, breathing and blinking, though there are other ways to constant rc.

These days i use a sort of awareness bubble i formed within my mind to watch my mind. It observes all of the data it is given but is also almost seperate from myself. There is a sort of disconnect there like watching myself from some place outside of myself, which also leads to asking what exactly am i.. sometimes it can be difficult to tell where exactly me is and where the borders of me within my mind are. Sorry if that makes no sense, but it works for me, and another form of constant rc may work better for others. Sometimes it can be good to shut out outside influences for a bit and just explore the mind, prod and tweak it to see what happens, and just spend a lot of time in self reflection. Maybe try to figure out what your mind can and can't do, and slowly push the boundaries of what you believe possible by somehow finding ways to do what you once believed impossible. Can be fun stuffs, exploring and fine-tuning a mind for various tasks.

My girlfriend learnt how to lucid dream in childhood and practiced it a lot while being teenager.
Today, as a young adult, she consider lucid dreaming as an hobby, and she prefer to have non-lucid dreams (she choose to loose lucidity when she achieve a dild).
- heightened senses, yes absolutly.
She's afraid of dark and often put a light when she sleep alone, if not, nasty creatures comes to her mind, like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSsfuEG4GMA

I don't know if I am a natural or not, but as a child I was abused on a constant basis and I would always "pretend" to be somewhere else at that moment. Imagining I was somewhere else was the only defense mechanism I had. At night (when most of the abuse happened) I was always alert and would not let myself fall asleep and I believe that is why I suffer from insomnia now. When I did fall asleep I would immediately wake up several times a night to make sure my abuser was not crawling around on the floor trying to get to me. I was only 10 years old and I could remember waking up one night and I couldn't move and I floated right out of my body.

I would then create a different scene or world when I was alone in real life, so my imagination was always running 'WILD' (pun intended). I would usually just let myself bob in and out of sleep just in case something happened and I was alert enough to stop it. So I guess I lived my nightmares out as a child which some how enables me to always stay just on the verge of consciousness as an adult.

Originally Posted by RebelSeven

A lot of you brought up the nightmares thing. But nightmares are NOT the mechanism, they are a catalyst. People who become lucid thanks to frequent nightmares have something in their nature that leads them to REACT to nightmares with lucidity, it's not the nightmares that cause lucidity.

The theory behind the "nightmares = lucidity" claim is that children who very often experience nightmares will have a very good reason to recognise them as dreams in the future, so that they can do something about them;
this "prepares" them for the next nightmare, and makes them more self-aware of their dreams in general as a result.
This is exactly the same thing as having a desired dream goal and aiming for lucidity because you want to experience that kind of dream.

At least, this is my theory, and I personally think it sounds very logical.

Yuusha.

Yeah you can become a natural LDr into adulthood in my opinion.
I'd consider myself a natural and I only started LDing when into my adult life.
I'd had few before as a child but very few, after finding out and reading about the subject though I started having them very fast and just kept getting them more and more until it doesn't take hardly any effort at all.


I also think there may be certain traits that people who find it easy to LD have in common and from reading some posted in here, I have some in common with the rest of you....

Open mindedness and interest in the Paranormal.
Deep thinkers, contemplating origins of life, Universe ect.
Sensitive hearing someone mentioned, I have that too.
I read somewhere something about heavy readers tend to find it easier and I read everyday so, maybe something there, maybe not.


I do agree with what FryingMan said though about some people having the right brain chemistry to give very vivid Dreams is likely a big part of it.
Even though I only had a few LDs before I knew what they were, I've always had extremely vivid Dreams my whole life, along with excellent Dream recall.


One last thing,

Nightmares as children seems to be a very common experience between regular LDs.
Many people think that because of the nightmares they develop Lucidity to counteract them and that seems very plausible.

Some people don't agree though and I'm starting to think that's not the case myself, as I had many nightmares as a child but never developed Lucidity because of them.
I now believe the reason we experienced such bad nightmares is down the increased vividness of our Dreams compared to others and it's that increased vividness that makes us develop Lucidity, rather than the actual nightmares themselves.