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    Thread: ★ The most AMAZING lucid dreaming machine EVER ★ It FINALLY happened...

    1. #1
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      ★ The most AMAZING lucid dreaming machine EVER ★ It FINALLY happened...

      Watch this before you invest in the Instadreamer or any Kickstarter lucid dreaming device.

      This may be one of the most important videos I've uploaded. If you've never shared one of my videos before, please do your bit to raise awareness and share this one. You'll see why.


    2. #2
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      I agree with what Daniel says through the second half of the video.



      And I really wouldn't have believed a device like this would be any good. Probably anybody who knows anything about electronics will understand that at the weight that it is and the size that it is, there's no way with current technology that this could even "measure vitals" in the way they claim. I haven't even seen mention of it having a battery or a way of being charged. Ever notice how much battery your mobile devices use trying to look for networks...?

      This is snake-oil extraordinaire in my opinion and indeed the lack of a patent for such "high-tech" is unlikely. And don't forget the contradictory claim of being an offline device with no connections but then claiming to connect to their app on your phone "automagically". It's not difficult to program logic circuits and applications to make a final result that looks convincingly like it's really working but in the background not doing much else other than making random decisions.

      Oh and their "Trademarked" "VibraSmart"? Not on any Trademarks databases, including government ones. VibroSmart is a completely unrelated trademark that does exist.
      Last edited by DarkestDarkness; 08-03-2018 at 09:36 PM. Reason: Fixed a grammar typo
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      Singled out from some of my favourite quotes from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri: "Risks of [Planet] flowering: considerable. But rewards of godhood: who can measure? - Usurper Judaa'Maar: Courage: to question."

    3. #3
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      Now there's a video that should be required viewing!

      Unfortunately, as long as there are folks who want something for nothing (aka, here, instant lucidity without the fundamentals, mental prep, discipline, or patience), these carnival barkers will have an audience of wide-eyed customers, money in hand.

      And this is from a guy who, back in the '90's, spent many many dollars on LaBerge's Dreamlight, his P.E.S.T., and a Dreamspeaker -- all of which, though they actually worked as advertised, never gave me "instant" lucidity; not even once.

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      What do you guys think of the apps that monitor your movement and noise as you sleep to map out your sleep cycles. Some have a function that they will let you know when you're dreaming. Like play a soundclip: "you're in a dreeeaaaaam-eeaam-eaaam"

      It obviously doesn't work on it's own. But seems like it could possibly be useful for someone who is already a lucid dreamer. I had an app like that for a little while(free trial) Can't say for sure whether it had an effect or not.

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by LighrkVader View Post
      What do you guys think of the apps that monitor your movement and noise as you sleep to map out your sleep cycles. Some have a function that they will let you know when you're dreaming. Like play a soundclip: "you're in a dreeeaaaaam-eeaam-eaaam"
      This sounds like a good idea, but the trouble with it is that, more often than not in my opinion, movements and noises can occur when you are not dreaming. For instance, you might change your sleep position during a micro-awakening, or you might simply be snoring at any time. On top of that, because of REM Atonia, you might not be moving at all during your dreams (I, for one, tend to remain completely still during dreams). Tracking movement that isn't REM (or brain waves, I suppose, if that can count as movement) does not seem to me to be a reliable method for connecting you to your dreams, and certainly not an accurate way to tell you you're dreaming during a dream.

      That said, I do see one possibility for this sort of thing: If you were to receive some sort of gentle message during your micro-awakenings, you might just be able to convert that awakening into a WILD/DEILD. It might take a bit of practice, because your body is very interested in going back to sleep during micro-awakenings, but an experienced LD'er (or perhaps a novice who has done a lot of mental prep) might be able to take advantage of it.

    6. #6
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      It's great to see that the conversation is always so sensible here on DreamViews, you'd all not believe the chaos that my criticisms of the device have unleashed.

      As a result of all of this drama and misleading hype, I've cut all ties with the WOLD website. It's a shame, it used to be quite a reliable if somewhat casual magazine style site (the old owner had a respect for science and objectivity), now it seems as if they just view lucid dreaming as a product or means to sell products. Not a place I want to be associated with. Thank goodness that DreamViews is still a space where people who actually care about the subject can gather.

      Going to drop a prediction in here for future reference: If the device ever gets made, I'm betting it will be sold on the World of Lucid Dreaming site as a bundle with their "Claridream" supplement, and the hype will be even more intense "ultimate lucid dreaming bundle, revolutionary etc. etc." For the record, Claridream is actually the only supplement I've ever tried that killed my dream recall and left me feeling like I had a hangover the next day.
      Last edited by DanielLove; 08-07-2018 at 01:33 AM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by DanielLove View Post
      It's great to see that the conversation is always so sensible here on DreamViews, you'd all not believe the chaos that my criticisms of the device have unleashed.

      As a result of all of this drama and misleading hype, I've cut all ties with the WOLD website. It's a shame, it used to be quite a reliable if somewhat casual magazine style site (the old owner had a respect for science and objectivity), now it seems as if they just view lucid dreaming as a product or means to sell products. Not a place I want to be associated with. Thank goodness that DreamViews is still a space where people who actually care about the subject can gather.

      Going to drop a prediction in here for future reference: If the device ever gets made, I'm betting it will be sold on the World of Lucid Dreaming site as a bundle with their "Claridream" supplement, and the hype will be even more intense "ultimate lucid dreaming bundle, revolutionary etc. etc." For the record, Claridream is actually the only supplement I've ever tried that killed my dream recall and left me feeling like I had a hangover the next day.
      I had no idea the owner changed, no wonder it's so different now. I'm subscribed to their newsletter and they keep spamming me with hype products, specifically Claridream. I gave in and purchased it to trial. So far, it had no effect on me whatsoever. ^^'

    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by lucidbunnie View Post
      I had no idea the owner changed, no wonder it's so different now. I'm subscribed to their newsletter and they keep spamming me with hype products, specifically Claridream. I gave in and purchased it to trial. So far, it had no effect on me whatsoever. ^^'
      As you might know, they listed me as "science advisor" (their words not mine) on the campaign to get Claridream funded. The reality is all my advice was ignored (I suggested a two pill system, with Galantamine as the core ACheI). The pills in my opinion are a random mix of contradictory herbs (a two pill system made into one - which is just outright silly) riding off the back of the AChEI, huperzine a (which in my experience is inferior to Galantamine), and the lack of research into the blend means that it is highly probable that one or more of the other ingredients my reduce or contradic the effects of the huperzine anyhow.

      My trial pack made me feel physically ill (akin to a hangover) and killed my dream recall which is beyond rare for me (my dream recall is like clockwork and almost never falters), I'd never put one in my system again. The only reason they're not in the trash is because I may decide to review them at some point in the future.

    9. #9
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      The idea that "Technology can solve everything" is very bitter-sweet, I'd say. How much can we delegate to technology without realistically ending up hindering ourselves?

      The truth is that our lives are build on top of a very tall tower of technology, and I think it's interesting to think of the ramifications of some of the biggest, most influential, technological advances. Modern medicine allowing more people with more health issues to reproduce; the internet greatly skewing our perception of things like altruism; the first techniques to mass produce paper turning our perception of the world into symbols; and so on. I'm not saying these things are bad, mind you, and I'm certainly not saying technological advance is undesirable (and it certainly isn't avoidable), but I think it's important to keep in mind how these things always have a series of knock down effects which may ultimately make things worst even if that wasn't the intention.

      And this brings me to these lucid dream techniques involving special machines and surefire methods of 100% lucid dreaming, and things like that, and I always wonder if this would actually be desirable, and what kinds of effects this would have, and not only because, as Daniel pointed out in his video, lucid dreaming is not one skill, it's many working together. For instance, I can imagine some small kid getting used to using a device like this, and as a result thinking very little of dreams; maybe just thinking of them as something to entertain them, instead of what most people think they are: a safe environment where we can explore ourselves and learn through experience; this kid basically lost the ability to dream at that point, and instead he does the equivalent of playing video games while he sleeps. Looking at the examples of the previous chapter, we know each of those things lead to massive improvements despite the price payed, but in the case of machines like these, or methods to 100% lucid dream in general, I don't believe we'd gain more than we'd lose, and that's the whole point I'm trying to make; I'm sure it would have some good effects as well, but I don't think they'd be worth it (not even by a mile);

      There's also the thing that always puts me off with techniques like these: the idea that I actually need something external to myself to have lucid dreams or to "dream properly". That's a terrifying thought to me, and that's why I never liked the idea of music or static noises or certain foods or pills or anything of the sort (though I don't deny that these might be highly effective methods, mind you), to meditate, dream or do anything that I'd consider a "true activity of the mind". These are the things that I am truly free to do at any point as long as I'm alive, and, at least to me, there's no price to that freedom; it is, literally, the thing I cherish the most in my life.

      Other than that, I don't think a lucid dream technology will ever really be invented, because once we have that kind of understanding of the brain, it's much more likely that everyone will just invest in, and consume, brain-computer interface technologies.

      I probably come off as an anti technology purist, but I assure you that's not my intention; I just like my brain a lot, and I like it to be an independent, strong brain who need no computer.

      Also, great video as always.
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    10. #10
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      Yeah, currently over 460 suckers backers are about to throw themselves under the bus. The only "conditioning" done so far is being persuaded to part with cash. (See below).


      Stimulus = cash $$$

      Reward = "Instant" lucid dreams

      Actual = Disappointment


      Hype aside, for me it was the fact that the team have no intermediate or final prototypes given that production is due to start at the end of this month. (August). There are no published test results available either. Therefore I cannot see this product (whether it works or not?) being made available in February next year.

      Pavlovian? It's more of a palaver. Lucid dreams? Try pipe dreams.
      "Reject culture..." "Put the Art pedal to the metal!"
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