Originally Posted by Abra
But we know how the placebo effect works, and it isn't LoA energy beams. You feel happy because you are thinking you will get better, you are less stressed about the illness, and when you are less stressed your immune system works better. It's not energy pulses blasting the viruses, it is your white blood cells.
In other words, you can't give me an experiment that rules out other factors which could result in a change. So, it's not science.
Also, I'm pretty sure prayer healing doesn't work (if the person who needs healing doesn't know about it, as well as if they do) and has been tested.
For one thing, you're limiting the placebo effect purely to illnesses that involve the immune system. Not all diseases work that way but the placebo effect retains value across the board.
For two, I said it would take work to come up with a proper experiment. Do not jump to conclusions. It's a difficult thing to experiment. But you're disgracing society and the universe by deciding because it's tricky, it's therefore impossible. We both know the requirements for the experiment, why not try brainstorming? There's probably a means of testing this that's just as easy as the placebo effect.
And finally, I have limited computer time but I have read of studies with positive effects. You just have to change your definition of prayer to something which has a real effect on belief system and doesn't focus on lack. People do not know how to pray properly, and like I said, the experimenters themselves stand to confound the experiment with their own attitudes.
You're assuming because the experiments are failing it means the entire concept is false. With this attitude you may as well believe cell-phones don't cause cancer because what they actually do is disrupt the body's melatonin distribution which manages free radicals which cause cancer. The experiment did not test for this, so the results were that cell phones don't cause cancer. The same is true regarding the experiments that test if prayer has an affect. The experiment cannot support the theory if the hypothesis overlooks what's actually happening. Prayer can only have an affect if the beliefs are changed, and I have seen studies that support this idea, while none of the studies that disprove prayer take this into account.
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