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    Thread: Our supernatural world

    1. #1
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      Our supernatural world

      The mindset of people today it seems is that our world is just a complete luck of the straw and we live, reproduce, and die with nothing but a black abyss absent of thought.
      So many things in our world today and it's history is strange. So many accounts of paranormal activity, extraterrestrials from the past and today, people with strange supernatural abilities, strange creatures, portals, the list goes on
      What I'm trying to say is there is so much we don't know about our world and maybe just because you don't believe in god or are religious doesn't mean that our reality is just some lucky coincidence.
      Why is there all these supernatural occurrence? Do they mean anything? Is there more than one cosmos? Is there others like us? Is there a deeper meaning to life? Whether that be good news or bad? If there is nothing after death, then why is there so many stories of paranormal encounters?
      So many questions

    2. #2
      Terminally Out of Phase Descensus's Avatar
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      You're assuming your conclusion. My question is: why do these supposed accounts of supernatural/paranormal activity never seem to hold up to rigorous testing?
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      The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended. - Frédéric Bastiat
      I try to deny myself any illusions or delusions, and I think that this perhaps entitles me to try and deny the same to others, at least as long as they refuse to keep their fantasies to themselves. - Christopher Hitchens
      Formerly known as BLUELINE976

    3. #3
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      I did not quite clearly make my point as well as I wanted to, I have trouble with that because of my aspergers.
      I think many people wish to keep such supernatural/paranormal a secret for whatever reason I don't know

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      You're still assuming that these encounters and phenomena are true; you don't know if people are keeping things a secret or are actually experiencing these things or have powers, you are just assuming they do. It's not that people feel like keeping these experiences a secret or simply have no desire to demonstrate their abilities in rigorous scientific tests that could prove they are truly capable of doing these things, it's that any time they have, there have been no confirmed legitimate cases of people possessing these powers. The fact that there are those who do not wish to prove themselves in a controlled setting for totally bogus reasons doesn't really help things either.

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      Yes i am leaning towards the truth of these phenomena, I don't know any better
      I've been shown so much crap that I do overlook the fact that most of these phenomena have never truly been tested.
      But there is just so many cases of odd supernatural phenomena, like paranormal activity or demons possessing themselves in objects, just an example, it seems unlikely that all of this could be caused by something like mass hysteria or something alike.
      I never have assumed my own conclusion because there really is no evidence to support it, I just lean towards believing in some of these paranormal phenomena but also keeping a open mind to the fact that it may be completely bogus which then brings us back around to the other end of the never ending loop which is to keep an open mind that it may be true because we will always seem to have bits and pieces of info on either end of the subject at hand
      For example the famous Patterson Giblin Bigfoot footage which I'm sure you've all seen, it came out and it's like "holy shit someone proved Bigfoot is real!" But on one end you see the video and info and think it must be real, but then you got the people who see other skeptical info and thinks its bogus.
      AND THEN you got people who throw there life away searching and trying to prove Bigfoot is real and spend all there time and money on cameras with night vision who obviously never find anything that convincing cause otherwise you would of heard about it from a friend or the news or the internet but then it some how becomes a tv show and ends up on the HISTORY channel is fucking baffling and is supernatural phenomenon of itself right there if you ask me.

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      One's first taste of religious disillusionment is not a good one. Typically, the trap-door feeling of this disillusionment causes an immediate, reactionary outlook on all data subsequently gathered. Once you realize Santa isn't real, you're likely to stifle your own imagination because at least then you can count on a morsel of stability. Creativity is fine, but if you invest meaning in things that are not true, you are likely to feel that same, horrifying, trap-door feeling when these illusions are ultimately proven false. Hence why those who cannot find comfort living in the unknown cling to a dichotomy that stifles exploration and creativity. These individuals needs to feel as though they've comprehended truth, and when this comprehension is challenged by the infinite, they feel unsafe. What they fail to realize is that they can never believe hard enough as to make something true, or disbelieve hard enough as to make something false, the imagination cannot impose truth upon itself. It remains belief, and to mistake belief for truth is to lie to one's self, and therefor subject the self to suffering.
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      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      Original Poster.
      is your post referring to me?

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      Quote Originally Posted by TheHomeBeef View Post
      Yes i am leaning towards the truth of these phenomena, I don't know any better
      I've been shown so much crap that I do overlook the fact that most of these phenomena have never truly been tested.
      But there is just so many cases of odd supernatural phenomena, like paranormal activity or demons possessing themselves in objects, just an example, it seems unlikely that all of this could be caused by something like mass hysteria or something alike.
      I never have assumed my own conclusion because there really is no evidence to support it, I just lean towards believing in some of these paranormal phenomena but also keeping a open mind to the fact that it may be completely bogus which then brings us back around to the other end of the never ending loop which is to keep an open mind that it may be true because we will always seem to have bits and pieces of info on either end of the subject at hand
      For example the famous Patterson Giblin Bigfoot footage which I'm sure you've all seen, it came out and it's like "holy shit someone proved Bigfoot is real!" But on one end you see the video and info and think it must be real, but then you got the people who see other skeptical info and thinks its bogus.
      AND THEN you got people who throw there life away searching and trying to prove Bigfoot is real and spend all there time and money on cameras with night vision who obviously never find anything that convincing cause otherwise you would of heard about it from a friend or the news or the internet but then it some how becomes a tv show and ends up on the HISTORY channel is fucking baffling and is supernatural phenomenon of itself right there if you ask me.
      My question is just why you would err on the side of quantity over quality? A lot of, if not most of, supernatural phenomena are pretty much greedy people who want money and decide to exploit human nature. I won't out right say the supernatural is impossible, but hearing and seeing anecdotal evidence that never amounts to anything does nothing for me.

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      I keep an open mind but with a healthy amount of skepticism. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. As was already said, the quantity of claims does not equate to legitimacy.

      I'd also liken it to UFOs. So many thousands upon thousands of sightings, and as far as I'm concerned only a handful really stick out and catch my interest. Rendlesham Forest and JAL 1628 are the two most intriguing in my book.

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      You're right the amount of claims these days mean nothing, some people don't even want to do it for money, I remember seeing something about two men who had been creating crop circles for decades and didn't really give a straight reason why they did.
      JustASimpleGuy, mentioning UFO sightings that are notable I'm sure you've heard how about less than 1% of UFO documented sightings are actually unexplainable, and why didn't you include the battle of LA? A very notable UFO mass sighting.

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      The Battle of Los Angeles isn't even on my list as potentially credible. It's somewhere way below (near the bottom?) the very small percentage of sightings that can't be explained. Most likely misidentification followed by panic and/or hysteria considering the times and what happened at Pearl Harbor, combined with fear of either a bombing or invasion by Japan.

      I'd put the 1952 UFOs over DC incident way above it, and I don't think that one comes close to breaking into the top percentage of truly unexplained sightings.

      The two I referenced above stick out in my mind as extraordinary. Of course I'm not an expert in the disciplines required to analyze the evidence objectively and I don't put forth the time and effort to do so. It's all subjective.

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      Unfortunately the human brain can be very easily tricked because of how conditioned our minds are, magician's love exploiting it. There are those that are so captivated and want to believe it so bad, like if we focus on something for a long period of time it becomes more real to us and we tend to discredit what else we see or read if it doesn't fit with what our current experience is showing us. Problem I see is there is always a lacking of meaningful evidence, it's such a predominant trend.

      I know some people where there wanting to believe out weighs there logical thinking and it scares me how easily deluded a human mind can become. Those people can be easy targets to tv shows, fake youtube videos or those selling endless books, seminars, dvd's and making millions. Some may come up with stories because they were lacking attention that they maybe never received and try to fill that hole, and it works very well for them.
      The human brain isn't perfect, when tired we see things, we make assumption due to past experience. I have heard some religious people say how demons have come to them at night and there body's have been paralyzed, the demon stands over them in bed or climbs on there chest, or aliens abducted me out of my bed and they really believe it was true, but we know they are night terrors, and now days it's likely the old hag unless demons is still what scares us most lol.
      James Randi, a magician has offered a one million dollar paranormal challenge and since 1964 about a thousand people have applied, but no one has ever been successful.
      I think there other life in our universe, I'm not sure if they have come here yet or ever will but it would be very cool if they do. Hopefully we would learn from them and stop all our many stupid meaningless wars. But unfortunately our minds tend to cling so hard to our beliefs, each side always thinks they are doing the right thing.

    13. #13
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      The average "supernatural" experience goes undocumented. There was no way to rigorously test it. Which is why we are left with stories. But if you have respect for you fellow human being you would at least open up your mind and listen.

      There have been a number of studies done on psychic phenomenon, and yes, some have had positive results. No, these researchers were not about proving whether or not an acclaimed psychic was real or not or prize money if they were. These were authentic backed by universities studies looking at the minds of the average person making no claim to psychicdom at all. These studies aren't easy to conduct and continue to evolve over the years and they continue to today. I'm not gonna list them, I sure has hell can't remember their names. There have been hundreds and there is a book out there that talks all about them, the good, the bad, the ones with positive results and the ones with negative results. All of it.

      What most people don't realize is how damn hard it is to do a research into psychic phenomenon or any phenomenon concerning mind over matter. Science is all about measurements, how do you measure mind?

      Years ago, there was a research looking at whether or not prayer had any affect on hospitalized patients. At first, all they asked for was for people to pray and then they looked at whether or not the patient got better. As you would expect, they had inconsistent results. It was initially concluded that prayers had no effect on patients whatsoever and for nay-sayers everywhere, that was the end of that.

      Until some smart people realized this was really poorly applied science. The research didn't account for variables and really lacked controls. In order to repeat the research they would have to really, really, really identify all the variables. And for mind, that's a lot.

      1. does the person praying believe in their own prayer? how do you measure doubt? how do you measure belief?
      2. how deep are they in prayer? have they reached a legitimate meditative state measurable by science? or are they just regurgitating words without feeling?
      3. does the patient believe in prayer? now you have to quantify their doubt and belief
      4. does the patient know they are being prayed for? does it matter?
      5. does the patient want to be healed? what if they have already, accepted their death?

      The number of variables they found made this method of research ridiculous. In order to work around those variables and really have control over this mess, they would use "healers" rather than normal people who aren't even sure whether or not they believe. They used priests, shamens, monks and experienced meditators. They then placed the healer in the same room face to face with the healee. And they got results. Measurable data. The most amazing data they got was light emanating from the healer going towards the healee. You can't see this light with the naked eye, but the researchers believe we experience it all the time. We call it good vibes and we feel it when we are with a good natured person.

      After getting some sort of measurable result, the researchers could finally begin to ask WHAT is healing and how does it work? My computer is about to die, but when I remember the name of the book that talks about all these researches that have gone on I'll post it next time.

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      That's a good point juroara, I think our conversation was pointing more to the dazzling and amazing in the physical, like UFO's, extraterrestrial abduction, sighting's of big foot strolling through the forest and the dead coming back turning on lights and moving chairs around rather than the more subtle unexplained psychic phenomenon. Because there are so many scammers and people around clamming a lot, some making lots of money like david wilcock. Have read about many of those psychic phenomenon studies and they seem strange and unreal how it can be possible. We all seem to have a small ability some people just have the perfect make up and others seem to have acquired it or opened up to it.

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      What do you think would happen if one day someone caught Bigfoot or 'the rake' or something like that and it was released to the public.
      That would be crazy.

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      I can only speak for myself if that actually happened, I would be RCing so often that I'm sure they would lock me up in a psych ward.
      Strapped to a bed and feed through a tube I would never stop performing RC's.
      But that's me, I usually over do things.

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