Thread: RAISE YOUR HAND!! - Intro Class Q&A

Originally Posted by DragonMaster21

Oh yes, I do have a lot of flexibility. One of my problems is that, I'll admit it, I'm a bit afraid of the dark . I wake up, and I'm afraid of something that is not and will never be there. Maybe I just need to face my fear, wake myself up, and just sit there in the dark and just deal with it.

Another question, what are some things I could do during a WBTB? I also have a hard time staying awake for 10 minutes without getting bored and going to sleep. Also, when I wake up, I usually go to the bathroom, and the lights are on in there. Will < a minute of light exposure be the same as 20 minutes of light exposure or should I put up a night light so that it's dimmer.

No worries on any of that. Personally, I somewhat doubt that light is a make-or-break issue for WBTB so long as you have no trouble getting back to sleep. In fact, Ophelia's main WBTB approach used to be to get up for a while during the daylight hours of morning, get the kids off to school, and then go back to sleep.

To me, that says that as long as you can get back to sleep, it's probably not going to be a big problem. Definitely don't let it stop you from attempting WBTB unless you get insomnia. WBTB is just so effective that you hate to pass it up if you don't have to.

As for things to do to alleviate boredom, definitely give yourself something to look forward to. I like the idea of reading about lucid dreaming. At various times I've read Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming and Are You Dreaming? during WBTB. Another thing I've enjoyed is playing a low-key adventure game like Myst. I talked about this a bit in the most recent podcast: http://www.dreamviews.com/dreamviews...eamworlds.html

If you have something fun you look forward to doing, you'll be much more motivated to actually do it. Just don't have so much fun you forget to go back to sleep.

Originally Posted by Booney

I could use some advice on something.
When you're just a beginner, what are good goals or actions to perform when you hit lucidity the first few times?

I've been focusing on one specific goal for a while, but I either forget it or fail to achieve it.
What are nice easy to achieve goals to perform, you know, to get the doubt and insecurity out of the way.

And welcome back Ophelia

I like both of DragonMaster21's suggestions below (flying as well as goals that motivate you.) These are great.

I'd add one more that I think is the perfect starter goal. As soon as you become lucid, make it your goal to fully drink in the vividness of the scene. Challenge yourself to examine something really, really closely and in great detail. Your hands are a good candidate, but anything in the environment will work. You will be astounded at how much detail your mind can generate. Take the time to really appreciate this.

I like this goal because it's both fun and mind-expanding. It helps you to learn that the dreaming mind is capable of vividness that rivals and and sometimes exceeds that of waking life. It will give you a new perspective on dreams. You'll understand better why NLDs are so good at fooling us. And you'll understand just how amazing your journey into lucid dreaming will be.

A great side effect is that it tends to dramatically raise the overall vividness of the scene. I've been trying it recently as a starter for my LDs and I'm loving the effects.

I'm asking another question about WBTB:
As you can see at the Competition #14 I'm becoming an expert on doing WBTB...with little results, he he, although I feel that's maybe because I rarely stay up for more that 15 minutes and I may need 30 minutes at least, so I need to work at that.
Anyways, back to my question, I've always consider myself a heavy sleeper, but I'm experiencing some episodes of insomnia now when doing WBTB, which is something new for me. How can I prevent and combat insomnia at WBTB?
Thanks in advance!

question where do i get my workbook? when should i do reality checks? and what should i do once i get lucid?

Hey guys! Sorry for the delayed reply. You Lucid Titan, CanisLucidus, is away for a couple weeks.

To dreambh: Something I've been hearing more and more about with folks who say "Once I'm up, I'M UP." My boss for example, can't go back to sleep once she wakes up in the morning, regardless of how early. I'm the opposite, and I can sleep in and/or nap forever. I'm not sure if that's your case or not, but if WBTB is depriving you of sleep, then I'd definitely go with DILDs. At least until you sort out your insomnia if that's the case.

To lucidcastle99: Start your workbook here as a new thread: Intro Class
Just click on the "+ Post New Thread" button on the upper-left of that page, and you're on your way! As for reality checks, do them as often as you remember to do them. The key is getting your brain used to remembering to do them more often, regardless if what reality check you use. Awareness!! Finally, what to do once you get lucid, have a pre-memorized set of goals. Maybe one easy one, and one difficult one (example for easy: pick a flower; example for hard: fly). Point is, that once you become lucid, it's nice to get goal-oriented right away so you can get your personal goals accomplished. Or, you can just sit back and watch a dream world unfold in front of you. You can have as little or as much control in the lucid dream as you want, choice is yours.

Originally Posted by OpheliaBlue

To dreambh: Something I've been hearing more and more about with folks who say "Once I'm up, I'M UP." My boss for example, can't go back to sleep once she wakes up in the morning, regardless of how early. I'm the opposite, and I can sleep in and/or nap forever. I'm not sure if that's your case or not, but if WBTB is depriving you of sleep, then I'd definitely go with DILDs. At least until you sort out your insomnia if that's the case.

Thanks for your reply OB, I could not read it until today because of a trip I was doing, but actually, circumstances made me forget about WBTB and I had two lucids on a week (which is a lot for me) so you were totally right! I'm not the "Once I'm up, I'm up" kind, but obviously not working too hard on WBTB did help a lot.

Originally Posted by Pickman

I've noticed something while attempting the DEILD technique - whenever I try to re-enter the dream I just had by thinking about it, it doesn't always work. So I give up and lie in bed daydreaming about something else completely, and then the daydream itself turns into a dream that could very easily become lucid. Sometimes a character will appear and start acting independently despite my daydream, or I will end up somewhere completely different from where I was trying to dream about.

Is it possible that I am trying too hard to re-enter the dream when I think about it, keeping me awake? Am I the only person who has noticed that daydreaming in bed can be more effective than the standard DEILD technique? I would love to hear anyone's feedback on this.

Great question (and approach!) I'd say that very likely yes, by falling back to daydreaming, you just relax and let it happen. To DEILD or WILD, you have a) stay aware and b) fall asleep. If you get them both done, you are good to go. It sounds like you had a) nicely dialed in but being overly intentional with dreaming was messing up b).

Doing whatever you can to relax while still holding on to your awareness is the way to go. It sounds like you've found your sweet spot! Congratulations! Keep experimenting and practicing with DEILD. The more of it you do, the easier the relaxation piece becomes. It is challenging at first but you can get way better at it.

Originally Posted by dreambh

Thanks for your reply OB, I could not read it until today because of a trip I was doing, but actually, circumstances made me forget about WBTB and I had two lucids on a week (which is a lot for me) so you were totally right! I'm not the "Once I'm up, I'm up" kind, but obviously not working too hard on WBTB did help a lot.

Yeah, everything Ophelia said's good, so let me just add in the things that I do to avoid insomnia from WBTB.

First, I avoid excessive exposure to light. If I am going to have any lights on at all, I actually wear these crazy orange safety glasses that block out blue wavelengths of light. Do I look cool in these, you ask? As if you even need to ask.

Second, I move slowly, try to keep my heart rate low, and not get too amped up about anything. Reading is good, particularly if it's about lucid dreaming.

Third, when I return to bed, I just try to blissfully fall back into my MILD (or SSILD if I am doing that.) Think about nothing but dreaming. No waking life worries/concerns allowed, period. If there's a little trouble settling down my mind, I'll perform backwards counting while casually enjoying my hypnagogic imagery.

Fourth, I've gotten used to WBTB. It's normal for me to wake up at least once per night unless I'm sleep deprived. I'm very used to the pattern and more naturally fall back asleep now.

Fifth, sleep masks are pretty awesome. They make it super dark and you get boosted hypnagogic imagery. The kind I've got even has these shaped eye sockets so I can blink/open my eyes without my eyelashes touching it.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Great question (and approach!) I'd say that very likely yes, by falling back to daydreaming, you just relax and let it happen. To DEILD or WILD, you have a) stay aware and b) fall asleep. If you get them both done, you are good to go. It sounds like you had a) nicely dialed in but being overly intentional with dreaming was messing up b).

Doing whatever you can to relax while still holding on to your awareness is the way to go. It sounds like you've found your sweet spot! Congratulations! Keep experimenting and practicing with DEILD. The more of it you do, the easier the relaxation piece becomes. It is challenging at first but you can get way better at it.

Thanks for the reply, it's good to know that I'm on the right track. I guess I was so fixated on reentering the dream that I had just experienced, and I thought that having another dream completely would be making things too difficult.

I've noticed something while attempting the DEILD technique - whenever I try to re-enter the dream I just had by thinking about it, it doesn't always work. So I give up and lie in bed daydreaming about something else completely, and then the daydream itself turns into a dream that could very easily become lucid. Sometimes a character will appear and start acting independently despite my daydream, or I will end up somewhere completely different from where I was trying to dream about.

Is it possible that I am trying too hard to re-enter the dream when I think about it, keeping me awake? Am I the only person who has noticed that daydreaming in bed can be more effective than the standard DEILD technique? I would love to hear anyone's feedback on this.

Hello! I wonder, has anyone else experienced DC's who you feel are out of place or context in your dream, not only by how they look or act but also by the feeling you get when you meet them? /K

Hi guys!
Just had a somewhat weird experience: I was in a normal dream, went to bed, had a FA within that dream scenario which I turned into a lucid, then woke up from the lucid in still the same normal dream (where I went to bed and had the FA), and journaled the lucid. Then woke up for real and was like "A dream perfectly nested within a dream, and on top of that, lucid??"
Full dream: http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/drea...n-dream-50953/
I've tagged it as lucid, but I'm not 100% sure. What do you thing, Is that just a weird lucid, or something like "a normal dream about getting lucid"? (if that is even possible)

Originally Posted by Kactus

Hello! I wonder, has anyone else experienced DC's who you feel are out of place or context in your dream, not only by how they look or act but also by the feeling you get when you meet them? /K

I've certainly gotten experiences where somewhat bizarre characters appear out of nowhere, but I get the sense that you're driving at more than that.

Were these perhaps especially intelligent-seeming/aware dream characters? I have a subset of DCs that appears to be incredibly smart, intelligent, and act like they're aware of me and what I am. I've taken to calling them "smart DCs". Was it anything like this?

I'd love to hear more about what you experienced! Tell us more. (If you're comfortable doing so.)

Originally Posted by dreambh

Hi guys!
Just had a somewhat weird experience: I was in a normal dream, went to bed, had a FA within that dream scenario which I turned into a lucid, then woke up from the lucid in still the same normal dream (where I went to bed and had the FA), and journaled the lucid. Then woke up for real and was like "A dream perfectly nested within a dream, and on top of that, lucid??"
Full dream: http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/drea...n-dream-50953/
I've tagged it as lucid, but I'm not 100% sure. What do you thing, Is that just a weird lucid, or something like "a normal dream about getting lucid"? (if that is even possible)

So cool... an incredible experience, but don't feel weird about it! The exact same thing has happened to me before. In my case it was from performing an in-dream WILD from a non-lucid dream, which I find usually works immediately to make me lucid. But the act of "waking up" sometimes robs me of lucidity.

When you think about it, it's very normal to have lucidity fall away in any false awakening. What's interesting here is that the location chosen for the false awakening was the same one that you entered the dream from. It makes sense that your mind would build in that expectation, so you can see how this could happen.

Here's a DJ entry from me that's a lot like what you described: Fooled - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Very cool, man!

Were these perhaps especially intelligent-seeming/aware dream characters? I have a subset of DCs that appears to be incredibly smart, intelligent, and act like they're aware of me and what I am. I've taken to calling them "smart DCs". Was it anything like this?

I think you hit it when you wrote that.
I had the feeling that this particular DC was something more, an observer perhaps, 'she' knew, and was aware that I was there and what I was doing. What interests me was that, I'm Lucid, totally aware of this DC and yet absolutley knew her very well, even though she was a total stranger. There was no other interaction other than I could see 'her'

Perhaps I'm seeing part of myself or perhaps she 'exists' and Jedi mind tricked me It's a bit of a rabbit hole and really fascinating to think about.

Originally Posted by Kactus

I think you hit it when you wrote that.
I had the feeling that this particular DC was something more, an observer perhaps, 'she' knew, and was aware that I was there and what I was doing. What interests me was that, I'm Lucid, totally aware of this DC and yet absolutley knew her very well, even though she was a total stranger. There was no other interaction other than I could see 'her'

Perhaps I'm seeing part of myself or perhaps she 'exists' and Jedi mind tricked me It's a bit of a rabbit hole and really fascinating to think about.

I completely agree. These types of DCs are amazing. When you next get the opportunity, definitely take the time to talk with her/him and see where the conversation goes.

It's like the rest of the time you've been interacting with "extra" in your personal lucid movie and then suddenly you run into one of the A-list stars. I'm not sure when or why the dreaming mind calls up these kinds of DCs or what they represent, but the experience is great! One of my longer-term goals is to become good at consistently summoning this type of "smart DC".

Hey, if you have another such encounter, I'd definitely be interested in hearing about it!

Missed opportunity a few days back, very disappointed, found myself during a WILD attempt becoming conscious within a void of blackness, unable to move. Rather than turn this opportunity into something productive I succumb to fear and doubt, worried by the fact I couldn't move physically. It has happened before but this time it took me by surprise and so I wasn't mentally ready.

When it happens again I want to be ready, I have chosen to make a specific visualisation, maybe one object:
question 1. (if this is possible in the void?), or some words to say when this happens, the idea is that it stops me instantly going into anxiety mode and helps me view the situation as something positive and almost as a gift from which I can launch a LD.

It wasn't an unpleasant state until my Brain got in the way and this will be a good practice for me to face a fear if (when) it happens again.

I'm sure someone else has experienced this void many times and I have read the Dreamviews Wiki explanations of what it is, but I would like to ask: Question 2. If others have a specific strategy or routine, something they do in order to transition into a LD from the void, is it just a matter of visualisation and immersion? If there is a forum link to some useful info It would be much appreciated K

Hey Kactus! I work from the void very, very frequently so I'd be happy to tell you what I do. The main thing is to not worry. Seriously, the void is an awesome place to work from once you get used to it. You're subject to very few schemas that could limit you and your imagination so it can often be a shortcut to your goals.

The first thing I suggest is to take for granted that you have a dream body. Just immediately start rubbing your hands together. If some sense of doubt makes you believe that you are immobilized... rub your hands together anyway.

Don't even go to the trouble of denying that you're stuck. Just act. Believe you are already rubbing your hands together. Ignore anything and everything else that distracts you from what you want to do and you'll succeed.

So step 1 of my playbook is to begin rubbing my hands together. After that I keep verbally reminding myself that I'm having a lucid dream, keeping those hands rubbing together all the while. I'll often imagine myself walking forward as well. Sometimes I'll reach out, expecting to grab onto something.

Typically, a scene will eventually emerge from out of the void and I'll become part of it. Sometimes you can simply think about the scene that you want and it will appear.

Another fun technique I've used is to stick my hand out and call for a DC to pull me out of the void. Sometimes I'll ask for help from a friend, a DC from a recent scene, or just nobody in particular. Most of the time this results in a DC grabbing my hand and yanking me into a new scene. Very fun when this one works out.

If you'd be interested in a few concrete examples, I tag my dream journal as "void" any time I work from there. Here's a list of my own void experiences:
Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views - CanisLucidus - Dream Journals

Anyway, I hope some of that helps! Hey, would it be cool if we perhaps took on this question in a future podcast?

Thanks For the info CanisLucidus! That's absolutely what I was after. Something to focus on, now I have a strategy, I think this is going to really help. If I can get the whole rubbing hands and dream body thing going instead of that initial 'get me out of here reaction' I will be really pleased. Think I will postpone the hand out to DC until I'm a little more comfortable in there

It's also comforting to hear that you have experienced this void many times and turned it to your advantage, I look forward to getting stuck into your 'void' journal entries. On a side note I slipped into a DILD last night and tried out your rubbing hands together idea for the first time, Top Tip! Kept me Lucid for ages... Was a good one

thanks again and absolutely feel free to add the question in the podcast K

That's awesome, Kactus, I'm glad that the hand-rubbing worked out so well for keeping you in the dream! It's a great reminder for me as well to throw that in there every once in a while, even when I'm not in the void.

You've got exactly the right attitude. It took me ages to figure out that the void was no big deal and that the dream can in fact continue on just fine. This opens up so many possibilities for keeping dreams going. Took me so long to figure this out, so I hope I can save you guys some time on this one! It was a very hard-won lesson for me.

Good luck, Kactus, and congratulations on las tnight's DILD by the way!

Is much appreciated CL thank you. I'm certainly not there yet though, I have a lot of experience to gain. I was in the void last night after an early morning baby feed. I bought on the hand rubbing (could feel but not see them) Imagined my dream body, good so far, was in there twice as long as before, so fear factor and anxiety level was down. Even tried to imagine a DC pulling me in but I felt it was too loose and effort and not really committal enough to work this time (mistake I think) For some reason I missed the self talk also ' you are in a LD'.

Overall though, a big improvement and I truly felt that I was so close this time. I was awoken by an adrenaline rush in the end I think a few more experiences to tune in will do it! Good advice, thanks again.

That all sounds perfect! Great improvement already!

The most important part is that you are seeing for yourself that the void is just another dream state, a transition point to the next part of your dream.

Love all this great experimentation and practice! Keep having fun!

Hi, I just wanted to know: can an adrenaline rush from the day before carry over into your night's sleep and have weird effects that induce lucidity? If you have any insight on this, I would like to know so that I can use this knowledge to instigate lucid dreams on my workout days.

Originally Posted by Pickman

Hi, I just wanted to know: can an adrenaline rush from the day before carry over into your night's sleep and have weird effects that induce lucidity? If you have any insight on this, I would like to know so that I can use this knowledge to instigate lucid dreams on my workout days.

Great question, very interesting. The thing with something like a workout is that there are so many effects on the body that could have some influence. We'll be speculating, but hey, speculating's good fun, right?

If I'm lucky, this'll be a little experiment for me that I can get back to you on. Just finished up a nice workout of deadlifts and dips about 30 minutes ago, so let's see if I can't manage to break this dry spell.

I do have several ideas of what possible effects could be, though none are specifically related to adrenaline. Have you observed anything in particular on big workout days?

Hi CanisLucidus,

What I observed this weekend was more hypnogogic imagery while going off to sleep, and longer, clearer, more vivid dreams when I was asleep. As I mentioned in my thread, the content of my dreams was so bizarre that I knew I was dreaming twice.

Right now I'm convinced that it is some weird body chemistry thing, possibly down to an abrupt change. I had not gone to the gym in over a month, and I started crossfit on Saturday afternoon. Crossfit is a high intensity workout that involves olympic-style lifts, gymnastics and low rest periods. It was the most intense workout I've ever done - the trainers pushed me to my limits and then some. I seriously thought I was going to pass out unconscious, but after my limbs had finished trembling post-workout I spent the rest of the evening on a kind of high.

I'm trying to link the above experience to times in my life when I experienced similar dream states with high recall, crazy imagery and lucidity, or near-lucidity. First, there was the time when I woke up in the night after somehow getting an abrasion on my eyeball. I got back to sleep despite the pain and irritation. Second, there was the time that I went to bed after eating an energy bar (bad idea), and despite my racing pulse I fell asleep and went straight into a lucid dream that I was convinced was an OOBE (although it probably wasn't).

I know we can only speculate here, but if you have any ideas I would be interested to hear it.

Weird conisidences. I think CL got his ld after the workout as well. Well, exercising has lots of positive effects - increased circulation, flow of oxygen and nutrients, increased levels of neurotransmitters, neurogenesis. Here's an abstract that might explain things.

Exercise has been touted to do everything from treat depression to improve memory, with the power to cure a host of problems while preventing even more. In particular, exercise leads to the release of certain neurotransmitters in the brain that alleviate pain, both physical and mental. Additionally, it is one of the few ways scientists have found to generate new neurons. Much of the research done in this area has focused on running, but all types of aerobic exercise provide benefits. Although the exact nature of these benefits is still being determined, enough research has been done to provide even skeptics with a motivation to take up exercise. Exercise exerts its effects on the brain through several mechanisms, including neurogenesis, mood enhancement, and endorphin release. This paper not only examines how these mechanisms improve cognitive functioning and elevate mood states, but also proposes potential directions for future research. Furthermore, it provides an explanation for exercise's generally non-habit forming nature, despite effects on the reward centers of the brain that mimic those of highly addictive drugs like morphine.

One of the most exciting changes that exercise causes is neurogenesis, or the creation of new neurons. The new neurons are created in the hippocampus, the center of learning and memory in the brain (1), however the exact mechanism behind this neurogenesis is still being explored. At a cellular level, it is possible that the mild stress generated by exercise stimulates an influx of calcium, which activates transcription factors in existing hippocampus neurons. The transcription factors initiate the expression of the BDNF (Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor) gene, creating BDNF proteins that act to promote neurogenesis (17). Thus the generation of BDNF is a protective response to stress, and BDNF acts not only to generate new neurons, but also to protect existing neurons and to promote synaptic plasticity (the efficiency of signal transmission across the synaptic cleft between neurons, generally considered the basis of learning and memory) (1, 3, 17). However, BDNF's effects are more than protective, they are reparative.

So, yes, working out is really good for you and your brain and can help you with lds. It should be part of lucid living!

Originally Posted by NyxCC

Weird conisidences. I think CL got his ld after the workout as well. Well, exercising has lots of positive effects - increased circulation, flow of oxygen and nutrients, increased levels of neurotransmitters, neurogenesis. Here's an abstract that might explain things.

Agreed... exercise is awesome. And you are indeed right, Nyx -- got my most recent LD right after a workout!

Like Nyx said, different types of exercise can have positive effects on your circulating levels of neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine. (This depends somewhat on the type of exercise, which I won't get into too much.)

Now, for something more speculative. In addition to all of this, physically fit people are more insulin sensitive. Their bodies react quickly and efficiently to insulin. It's like the opposite of type 2 diabetes.

Furthermore, you are at your most insulin sensitive right after a good training session. So what's this mean for your blood chemistry?

After hard training, your muscles pull in branched chain amino acids (BCAAs) from your bloodstream. That's how muscles repair from the workout and ultimately grow larger and stronger, and this whole process is mediated by insulin. This may have some interesting downstream effects on neurochemistry. BCAAs and tryptophan share the same transport protein (in particular CD98). As BCAA levels in the bloodstream drop (due to being pulled into your muscle tissue), it likely frees up these transport proteins to shuttle more tryptophan into the brain.

And it's well-established that tryptophan is converted to serotonin in the brain, which ultimately leads to REM rebound, and more intense bouts of morning dreaming.

So there's my speculation. If you get a good workout and be sure to get enough sleep to take advantage of that REM rebound, I think there's a good chance it would have positive effects on dreaming. So get strong as hell, get lots of sleep, and don't forget to question your reality.