Thread: Civility

It's a door. It's three seconds out of your life. You do nice things because it's right, not because you expect people to return the favor. Get over it.

Even though I agree with you, Mario, these kinds of things do irk me a little bit as well. I mean, I'm not surprised by it, by any means - and I certainly don't expect it out of everyone - but it is one of those things that just makes me shake my head.

Well... she certainly wasn't obligated to return the favor, and because she violated that in which you perceived as a folkway, doesn't mean the nature of men, in a sense, is getting worse (whatever that means), if that is what you're implying.

What would be the point of her holding the second door open for you? You, by opening the first door, are giving her the right to go before you. If you did not really want to let her go before you, then you shouldn't have held the door open for her.

I don't know but normally you just can't expect anything back.

Originally Posted by Requiem

Today on my way into the stupid bank, I held the door open for a young women.

I was shocked when she didn't return the favor and hold open the second inside the bank for me. This means she actually got into the line before me, although I was at the bank first.

What is the world coming to?

Dunno, back in my day there never used to be jerks around.

My older sister and I were picking up pizza. A man was standing next to us in line along with several other customers, and there was confusion as to who should go next. My sister stepped back, and told the man that he could go in front of us.

He gave us a look that suggested we just stepped off some kind of organic spaceship, and just slipped on by, and made his order. No thank-you, no smile, not even a nod of acknowledgment.

People are either socially inept, or so stuck inside their little bubble that they don't understand common courtesy. That, or they are too lazy to practice it.

Organic spaceship?

Gotta get me one of those.

Originally Posted by Xei

Organic spaceship?

Gotta get me one of those.

There are quite a lot of them in Star Trek. And the Star Wars-esque comics of the X-Men, too. Maybe he was just an alien, Noogs, and did not know human social customs.

Originally Posted by Noogah

People are either socially inept, or so stuck inside their little bubble that they don't understand common courtesy. That, or they are too lazy to practice it.

Goodness, people are so easily offended these days. Of all the silly insignificant arbitrary crap to get upset over, why something so small? This kind of thing happens to me every so often, but I don't get upset over it or let it bother me. I don't know what's going on in that person's life, and I'm not going to judge them for not saying thank you.

It's just the nature of people. Some are jerks, some are nice. You don't always get what you give.
Although I must admit that I hate it when people do that to me, because you were trying to be courteous and they took it for granted!

Originally Posted by Mario92

I don't know what's going on in that person's life, and I'm not going to judge them for not saying thank you.

Common courtesy dictates that you acknowledge the person who does something nice for you. Or, at the very least, don't make them feel suddenly awkward and uncomfortable. Like you just stepped out of line in offering them something. That's what he did.

Now, in theory, he could be going through some kind of tragic situation. I admit. But it couldn't have been too tragic seeing for him to be in the mood to stand in line for pizza.

Anyways, I'm not judging all of people based on that one guy. There have been plenty of situations like that. I'm only using him as one example. As you said yourself, you have been in situations like that many times. I'm betting that most of us here have.

And that's my point. there seems to be alot of rude people nowadays. And I wouldn't say that it's some weird thing.
I mean, I'm not a technology pessimist. But, really. With all the technologies we have that enables instant and masked communication, I really think that some people just don't know how to courteously interact with others.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Common courtesy dictates that you acknowledge the person who does something nice for you. Or, at the very least, don't make them feel suddenly awkward and uncomfortable. Like you just stepped out of line in offering them something. That's what he did.

I agree. People shouldn't take out their personal problems on people by being rude or disrespectful.

Originally Posted by Puffin

I agree. People shouldn't take out their personal problems on people by being rude or disrespectful.

That is all.

Originally Posted by malac

Well... she certainly wasn't obligated to return the favor, and because she violated that in which you perceived as a folkway, doesn't mean the nature of men, in a sense, is getting worse (whatever that means), if that is what you're implying.

wtf...You're alive?

on topic: I haven't read everybody's posts, so excuse me if I sound redundant. I don't believe that they are obligated to, but it's seriously making an ass out of yourself if you don't.

Originally Posted by Noogah

My older sister and I were picking up pizza. A man was standing next to us in line along with several other customers, and there was confusion as to who should go next. My sister stepped back, and told the man that he could go in front of us.

He gave us a look that suggested we just stepped off some kind of organic spaceship, and just slipped on by, and made his order. No thank-you, no smile, not even a nod of acknowledgment.

People are either socially inept, or so stuck inside their little bubble that they don't understand common courtesy. That, or they are too lazy to practice it.

That, or you're extremely naive. The one in the bubble, unfortunately, is you.

Originally Posted by Creation X

wtf...You're alive?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Mario92

That is all.

I have struggled to restrain myself from further pressing this debate, but I can't help but ask:

What is your rebuttal to Puffin and I? You post a facepalm suggesting what he said is totally ridiculous. How? Do you disagree?
Do you think that we should take personal grievances out on courteous strangers by being rude and impolite?

Noogah, my beef is this: a person could be going through god knows what, and you can't suck it up for five seconds. You get so caught up in silly little social mores that you can't see the grander problem. You get worked up, yet do nothing. You fail to see that there are other people with other ways of life that may have a different concept of what is socially acceptable. Take a step back and view the big picture of things. This man caused you no harm, physically, psychologically, or emotionally. You are judging him based on a single encounter. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty dang sure I remember Jesus saying exactly not to do that. Now please, step off your moral high horse and consider that the world does not come to a screeching halt when someone, for whatever reason, breaks an insignificant cultural more. You can suck it up and deal with it. Be the bigger person. This applies to the OP, too.

Originally Posted by Mario92

You are judging him based on a single encounter.

I am not judging him. I am simply pointing out the fact that what he did was rude. He may very well be going through something, (though I seriously doubt he was considering the circumstances. If you are so traumatized you can't even manage a smile when someone offers you something, you probably aren't going to be standing in line waiting for pizza) but that doesn't mean what he did was not rude. And I don't personally think that excuses it either.

Originally Posted by Mario92

you can't suck it up for five seconds.

I did. I'm on no high horse, nor do I think any of us here are. I wasn't appalled. I didn't jump back in terror and shock. I didn't even raise an eyebrow. I just knew what he did was rude.

Originally Posted by Mario92

You get worked up, yet do nothing

What do you want us to do? Go bully him about it?

Originally Posted by Mario92

. You fail to see that there are other people with other ways of life that may have a different concept of what is socially acceptable.

Exactly my point, though. Some people lack social grace. It's pretty obvious that when someone does something for you, you acknowledge it. Mutter thanks. Smile. Bat an eyelid. Do something.

Plus, I doubt that every person like this whom I have encountered is just socially ignorant.

In the end, I'm not calling the guy a jerk, or judging him. I'm just saying, a lot of people nowadays seem to lack social grace.

Originally Posted by Noogah

I am not judging him. I am simply pointing out the fact that what he did was rude. He may very well be going through something, (though I seriously doubt he was considering the circumstances. If you are so traumatized you can't even manage a smile when someone offers you something, you probably aren't going to be standing in line waiting for pizza) but that doesn't mean what he did was not rude. And I don't personally think that excuses it either.

It was rude by your standards. Perhaps he knew it was, too. But perhaps he had suffered a very long, hard day, and wanted nothing more than to get his pizza and go home. Or perhaps he was on some form of medication, or intoxicated. Maybe he was just zoning out. I'm just saying...it isn't worth worrying about it.

What do you want us to do? Go bully him about it?

If it bugs you to the point where you have to bitch about it to a forum full of people, perhaps you should have simply confronted him. Even just injecting "you're welcome" could have made a nice impact on the man, and perhaps even have illicited a thank you.

Exactly my point, though. Some people lack social grace. It's pretty obvious that when someone does something for you, you acknowledge it. Mutter thanks. Smile. Bat an eyelid. Do something.

Some people, sure. I wouldn't call it a norm or a serious problem, though.

In the end, I'm not calling the guy a jerk, or judging him. I'm just saying, a lot of people nowadays seem to lack social grace.

I don't know, bro. It's easy to pick up deviant behavior, but much harder to notice habitual or normal behavior. I think you're probably overestimating the actual number of rude people versus polite people.

I would say it's a social norm...

It wasn't an obligation, but nonetheless it's frowned upon..

But, unfortunately that doesn't mean that it is wrong.. Except slightly morally...

In the case you stated, (Tired, Intoxicated etc.) I guess at least he/she would have a reason and so in that case.. Just don't judge a book by it's cover..

Originally Posted by Mario92

Even just injecting "you're welcome" could have made a nice impact on the man, and perhaps even have illicited a thank you.

Well, I wouldn't exchange rudeness for rudeness. It would be disrespectful. Maybe if it was a seven year old kid, but not a middle aged man. I don't feel I have the right to do something like that.

Originally Posted by Mario92

I don't know, bro. It's easy to pick up deviant behavior, but much harder to notice habitual or normal behavior. I think you're probably overestimating the actual number of rude people versus polite people.

All right then, maybe I am. I'll just leave it at that.

Originally Posted by Requiem

Today on my way into the stupid bank, I held the door open for a young women.

I was shocked when she didn't return the favor and hold open the second inside the bank for me. This means she actually got into the line before me, although I was at the bank first.

What is the world coming to?

That particular situation is a hard one to judge though.
If you are holding the door for someone, how can they not expect that you are allowing them to go first?

To be honest, it is all this thinking that people do which makes me over-analyze every little thing I do. If I do one thing, they would think one bad thing, but if I do it another way, they will think an entirely other bad thing about it.
There really is no escaping negative thoughts about other people.

In terms of manners I tend to not think too much about what others do for me. (main reason is that I just wish everyone else would be the same). But manners are still a good thing to have.


So basically what I am saying is that it's good to have manners, but if someone doesn't have them... why care?

Actually, yeah - with the double doors thing, it's kind of hard to judge. I mean, if I held the door open for someone, I would expect them to go first. But at the double door - though I may not expect them to stand back with the door open and let ME go first, I might at least expect a gesture to hold the door open, after they've already walked through it. I mean, it's just a matter of mutual respect.