Thread: 10minutes forced concentration on one object.without any other thoughts, how to do it ?

Lots of amphetamines and you can focus holes into the fabric of space and time...

But really, I don't think its possible to jump straight into that... and I think you are missing the entire point of the method that you wrote off so quickly-- letting the thoughts arise and then pass. If you begin by doing that, letting them arise and pass, eventually your mind will quiet on its own. Its a matter of patience, and eventually a great call will remain. THEN you can focus better after you have let those thoughts come through.

Think of it in terms of an analogy-- the mind is constantly working, with or without your own input. Trying to shut all those thoughts off is like putting up a giant dam...there's a tremendous amount of force behind that wall, and for the average person (IE someone other than a monk who spends life meditating for hours) there is not enough will to hold up that much force.

Instead, you have to make channels in that dam-- let the thoughts flow through until the source has emptied out. Once all these thoughts have come up, you notice them, and let them go, your mind will have calmed down, and with that calmness you can concentrate for much longer.

Short Version: Unless you have great willpower, you're not just gonna be able to jump right into shutting the mind down.

Originally Posted by Alucinor XIII

Lots of amphetamines and you can focus holes into the fabric of space and time...

But really, I don't think its possible to jump straight into that... and I think you are missing the entire point of the method that you wrote off so quickly-- letting the thoughts arise and then pass. If you begin by doing that, letting them arise and pass, eventually your mind will quiet on its own. Its a matter of patience, and eventually a great call will remain. THEN you can focus better after you have let those thoughts come through.

Think of it in terms of an analogy-- the mind is constantly working, with or without your own input. Trying to shut all those thoughts off is like putting up a giant dam...there's a tremendous amount of force behind that wall, and for the average person (IE someone other than a monk who spends life meditating for hours) there is not enough will to hold up that much force.

Instead, you have to make channels in that dam-- let the thoughts flow through until the source has emptied out. Once all these thoughts have come up, you notice them, and let them go, your mind will have calmed down, and with that calmness you can concentrate for much longer.

Short Version: Unless you have great willpower, you're not just gonna be able to jump right into shutting the mind down.

thanks. how long will it take ?
and if i will achieve it, do i have to practice it daily to keep this ability?

Well, what we're talking about is essentially meditation. Per session, it'll probably take you about 15-20 minutes each time to get to a very calm state of mind. If you're doing it right, you will barely even notice the time passing. However, as soon as you get up and start engaging other activities, you'll have to sorta fight to keep that quiet mind-- the mind will try to kick back in gear once you stop paying attention to controling the thoughts.

The more often to meditate, the easier it is to bring this quiet state of mind about throughout the day, thereby increasing your ability to concentrate. So practicing daily definitely does help, but you don't have to. It'll just take longer to achieve whenever you finally do attempt to reach a quiet mind so that you can concentrate fully.

Start by watching your breath, concentrate as much as you can on it. Its best to breathe through the nose...pay attention to the point where the air passes into your nostrils. it might feel a little funny at first, cause we don't usually pay attention to that. You will feel the air pass in and out, right at the rim or just inside your nose. Try not to control your breath, instead just watch it. Let it go by itself.

During this, thoughts will naturally arise. As they arise, notice them, let'em go, and then return to concentrating on the breath. After 10-15 minutes of doing this, your mind should be much, much quieter. Then you can try slowly shifting gears to concentrating on whatever it is you're aiming for. Have patience, and you'll find just how much easier it is to think and concentrate after meditating.

If you have any in-depth questions, feel free to ask, I'll help as best I can.

To not think of something, you have to not focus on not thinking of it.

Originally Posted by Alucinor XIII

Think of it in terms of an analogy-- the mind is constantly working, with or without your own input. Trying to shut all those thoughts off is like putting up a giant dam...there's a tremendous amount of force behind that wall, and for the average person (IE someone other than a monk who spends life meditating for hours) there is not enough will to hold up that much force.

I'd say it's even more problematic than that. It's like trying to hold back a body of water with more water.
If you're directly trying to stop your thoughts, you are thinking about trying to stop your thoughts. Which obviously means you have made no progress whatsoever.

You can get great meditation just by trying. I have meditated that way a zillion times, and I've never pulled off complete concentration for long. It's the dedicated attempt that does good things for the mind. However, I prefer to concentrate on sounds over sights. Seeing involves blinking, which will suck in at least some of your focus every time you do it. Concentrating on every note of music works the best for me, but concentrating on fans and air conditioners works well too.

How many times in your life have you had "that song you just can't get out of your head"? Or "can't stop thinking about that girl..."? Or "man, it's just on the tip of my tongue..." and it will be with you for the rest of the day?

Some things we just do naturally.

Deal with the thoughts before hand. And when you have whatever it is you are thinking about out of the way, Do what you need to do. Don't "try" because by intending to try you are actually doubting yourself. Just look and see. Focus. Pay attention to what it looks like. How it stimulates your senses. The color. These things. Experience what you look at. LISTEN. Listen with you ears aswell as your eyes. Really see what it is.

Do not fight the thoughts. Allow the coin and the other thoughts to sit in your attention. Your attention is not the thinker. You can easily retain your attention on anything you want if you realize that you control your attention, but you do not control your thoughts. Your thoughts do not have to distract you from your point of focus, but they will distract you if you try to fight their existence.

This is a big problem with meditation. some people call it "monkey mind," how all your thoughts tend to jump around like a monkey on a tree. like everyone else has said, the only real way to make it go away is by practicing it over and over and over again. Often you'll feel like your getting nowhere, but if you keep doing it eventually you'll get somewhere.

Originally Posted by NovaCoru

some people call it "monkey mind,"

LOL, never heard of that. That describes it perfectly.

Originally Posted by NovaCoru

This is a big problem with meditation. some people call it "monkey mind," how all your thoughts tend to jump around like a monkey on a tree. like everyone else has said, the only real way to make it go away is by practicing it over and over and over again. Often you'll feel like your getting nowhere, but if you keep doing it eventually you'll get somewhere.

Yes, practice helps, but not because focus works like a muscle, necessarily. It simply takes to practice to understand how to control your attention. For me, control over my attention comes from realizing that it's different from the thoughts, and to stop identifying with my thoughts. They are just thoughts, and they aren't real. My attention is the real focal point of myself. You can focus on attention itself, using a piece of your attention to reflect back on itself and get in touch with your mindful foundation. Keeping a piece of your attention upon itself, you retain presence in the moment and distractions become manageable. Suddenly you realize you have a choice whether or not to follow a distraction.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

Do not fight the thoughts. Allow the coin and the other thoughts to sit in your attention. Your attention is not the thinker. You can easily retain your attention on anything you want if you realize that you control your attention, but you do not control your thoughts. Your thoughts do not have to distract you from your point of focus, but they will distract you if you try to fight their existence.

Yes, practice helps, but not because focus works like a muscle, necessarily. It simply takes to practice to understand how to control your attention. For me, control over my attention comes from realizing that it's different from the thoughts, and to stop identifying with my thoughts. They are just thoughts, and they aren't real. My attention is the real focal point of myself. You can focus on attention itself, using a piece of your attention to reflect back on itself and get in touch with your mindful foundation. Keeping a piece of your attention upon itself, you retain presence in the moment and distractions become manageable. Suddenly you realize you have a choice whether or not to follow a distraction.

I noticed it, after few days i realized it and now i read it here...
but also one thing, if you are doing it, and someone in background turn on some catchy music....this attention jumps...you have to control it every second because at least for me it want to listen to music, and when my small part of attention see it i redirect it to coin bu after few seconds it jumps again to music..

and my point is not too be in silent environment.... i want my mind to filter out this music and every other background noise.its really hard because almost everything is less boring than staring at not interesting object.

The music is not what's distracting you, your beliefs about how you should respond to the music are distracting you.

Your attention is not robbed by the world, but by your interpretation of the world. If you believe you need to hear the music a certain way, or not hear it at all, then you will continue to struggle to control the way you perceive reality, or what reality you perceive. The choice is yours. I honestly used music in order to practice mindfulness when I first started because I realized I was being too judgmental with music. EIther I didn't like the song and would make myself upset about it until I changed it, torturing myself as I listen to it, or I would like the song and try too hard to swallow it all up.

Be one with everything you perceive. Identify with your perception as much as you identify with your thoughts. Allow it to occupy the same space in your attention.

It's okay to have beliefs, the trouble comes when you confuse your beliefs with the truth. Allow everything to stand apart from what you think of it.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

The music is not what's distracting you, your beliefs about how you should respond to the music are distracting you.

Your attention is not robbed by the world, but by your interpretation of the world. If you believe you need to hear the music a certain way, or not hear it at all, then you will continue to struggle to control the way you perceive reality, or what reality you perceive. The choice is yours. I honestly used music in order to practice mindfulness when I first started because I realized I was being too judgmental with music. EIther I didn't like the song and would make myself upset about it until I changed it, torturing myself as I listen to it, or I would like the song and try too hard to swallow it all up.

Be one with everything you perceive. Identify with your perception as much as you identify with your thoughts. Allow it to occupy the same space in your attention.

It's okay to have beliefs, the trouble comes when you confuse your beliefs with the truth. Allow everything to stand apart from what you think of it.

ok i will try it.

can you, or do you believe that it is possible to completely isolate from all background noises ? i mean in the way that they will not consume your attention, that for example you can read boring book with full understanding when your family is talking around you, to be concentrated on some task long without distractions, not necessarily in silent environment ?
thanks.

Yes and No. You can be so focused on something that you are not consciously aware of the outside world, but you are still taking it all in. The purpose of mindful meditation is to retain control over your attention, and that requires you to be aware of everything it takes in. The point in meditation is not to be unaware of outside perception. You perceive things uncontrollably in order to survive. The goal you are working toward is to remain unaffected by your perception of the outside. The way to do this is to stop agreeing with your reactions. Just note the reaction and let it go. Note that you were thinking and not being focused, and return to the breath or object of focus.

Concentration is a skill like anything else, and can be trained with practice. If you keep doing it often enough you will increase the amount of time yo can focus without thought. Going from one minute and thirty seconds to ten minutes can seem like a huge leap but if you do it in small steps it isn't as bad. You just need to do it a little longer each time and eventually you will get it. Though don't stress if you don't improve every single time, just keep at it.

While it is a skill, it's not a muscle. The trick to concentration is to learn how to control your attention, and when you figure out how it becomes effortless.

While after some time of exercising, focusing on some physical object become much easier, as well as total mind emptying, focusing for time longer than 1 minute on IMAGINED OBJECT is still very very very hard for me.
Why ?
I can totally empty my mind and keep it for some time, can also focus on some object in front of me, physical object and keep attention on it for some time.
But when i imagine some object in my head i can keep it only short time, it is so hard, harder than emptying mind. And i have no idea why.
When doing it my thoughts just go where they want spinning my mind around some irrelevant thing until the realization "what i am thinking about, why i am thinking about this".
The same is in concentrating on PHYSICAL object but when doing it on physical object i "SEE" that this thoughts are beginning to appear, just like they are emerge from deep part of my brain, i can stop them, move them or fade them away and return my attention into physical object.
Exactly the same process is happening when concentrating on NOTHING.

But when concentrating on IMAGINED object - before i realize that i am thinking about something irrelevant in these moment, before i realize that my mind is spidered with many different thoughts - it already past big amount of time after i lost attention from this IMAGINED object to irrevelant thoughts.

Why concentrating on IMAGINED object is for me so hard, harder even than emptying mind ?

I always thought that emptying mind is hardest from everything, according to this exercises it is last phase (EX.11) of super concentration:
Concentration Exercises for Training and Focusing the Mind

I know that nobody can really go into my mind and tell me why this is harder for ME than that, but maybe someone have opinion about it or some helpful tips ? thanks n advance.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You can get great meditation just by trying. I have meditated that way a zillion times, and I've never pulled off complete concentration for long. It's the dedicated attempt that does good things for the mind. However, I prefer to concentrate on sounds over sights. Seeing involves blinking, which will suck in at least some of your focus every time you do it. Concentrating on every note of music works the best for me, but concentrating on fans and air conditioners works well too.

Yea I like concentrating on sounds too..especially air conditioners and fans. I think it's easier to get to the "source" of the sound


Glad I came across this thread. Going to start my concentration practices back up again. adhd is a bitch