Thread: Galantamine + Choline

How much are you taking? You might need to lower the dose. Galantamine makes it hard to get back to sleep plus a little too much of it makes you too aware.

I kind of enjoy even the G experiences where I don't quite fall asleep - you still have some cool sensations and those little dreamlike moments are cool.

Also, are you doing wake back to bed? A lot of people (me included) find it's best to take it and go right back to sleep - cause by the time it's kicking in you won't be able to. The stimulant effect of galantamine sees to that. Apparently some people can get back to sleep after staying up for an hour on G, but I'm not one of them.

61284:

I've found that a bit of melatonin a few minutes before I take the G helps me stay asleep...

Originally Posted by 61284

each time I've ended up in a state that verges on falling asleep and staying awake.

It's hard to describe but its like my mind is about to go to sleep but I can still feel my body with little bitty fragments of dream interspersed here and there.

I know exactly what state you are referring to. I get stuck here more often than I would like. It is frustrating, but not entirely unpleasant. I find I can still enjoy and interact with the dream. The dream feels more like a vivid daydream. It is almost like I am too lucid, which leads to constant awareness of my real body in bed.

I wish I had a solution. If you find a way of solving this, let me know. My best advice is to just enjoy the meditative state of mind. Think of it as another type of dreaming. Although I feel like I am not really sleeping, I never end up feeling sleep deprived the following day. The only time it sucks is when I become frustrated and start to struggle, mentally.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

I know exactly what state you are referring to. I get stuck here more often than I would like. It is frustrating, but not entirely unpleasant. I find I can still enjoy and interact with the dream. The dream feels more like a vivid daydream. It is almost like I am too lucid, which leads to constant awareness of my real body in bed.

I wish I had a solution. If you find a way of solving this, let me know. My best advice is to just enjoy the meditative state of mind. Think of it as another type of dreaming. Although I feel like I am not really sleeping, I never end up feeling sleep deprived the following day. The only time it sucks is when I become frustrated and start to struggle, mentally.

Ive had similar problems. I'll get in the dream somewhat, and its like im halfway in between the dream world and the real world. And the other day, I finally got into the dream and jumped out this window onto a parking garage roof, but then like always, the dream became unstable and I woke up. Happens all to often.

I have just started to take Galantamine and Choline for the first time. First time I took 5-htp (100mg) before bed, and then slept for 3 hours after naturally waking up (3:15am) and stayed up for 15mins, took galantamine (8mg) and choline (500mg) and went to bed, I was probably too excited to fall asleep, but I eventually did after about 1.5h (4:30am). I experienced WILD (intense buzzing in the ears and levitating out of bed) and kept having false awakenings. I was lucid but it was very fuzzy. I had decent recall, but it was just fuzzy during most of my dreaming.

Second time I waited 5 days and did the same thing, (5-htp before bed, galantamine + choline WBTB) but this time I took L-theanine (125mg) right after I woke up after 4 hours of sleep (6am). I stayed up 5 mins and took the galantamine + choline and this time I was awake for about 2 hours before falling asleep (8am). I had a WILD again (I'm able to become lucid when I feel a extreme buzzing in my ears, like last time). But again my dreams were fuzzy. The weird thing was, my dreams only lasted for about 10 seconds and then I ended up in my bed again, but I wasn't sure that it was a false awakening until I heard the buzzing in my ears and then I was lucid again. This repeated about 5 times. It's possible that outside traffic and lights kept waking me up since this was after 8am.

I would like to know why my dreams were fuzzy. (could it be the 5-htp?) Also if it's possible to fall back asleep faster. (should i just take the galantamine + choline immediately after WBTB and go right back to sleep?) I also took B-Complex Vitamins (Timed Release) in the morning both times, if it matters. Thanks for your help, I'm relatively new to lucid dreaming. I find galantamine + choline is still the best success for lucid dreaming.

Originally Posted by vojkeBDP

I would like to know why my dreams were fuzzy. (could it be the 5-htp?)

I'd say more likely it's the Galantamine. A little too much makes you too aware and it's like being partially awake. I always struggle with effects of this when I take G - getting too much real-body signals such as the feeling of cloth all over my body translating into me wearing a robe slippers and mittens in the dream, or having difficulty walking as if I'm drunk or difficulty seeing right or thinking. Basically it's as if I'm drunk all too often when I take G. Try cutting back to half the dosage - the idea is to take the smallest dose that will work for you and no more.

Originally Posted by vojkeBDP

should i just take the galantamine + choline immediately after WBTB and go right back to sleep?

Yes. And incidentally, it's not called WBTB unless you stay up for like an hour trying to engage your logic circuits. You just want to wake up - not any more than you need to - try to move as little as possible. You want to get as close as possible to doing a DEILD, except that of course you need to move a little in order to take the capsule. Keep one out laying next to you so you don't have to unscrew the lid off the bottle - have some water on the table ready to go etc. A lot of us find that once we wake up fully the G being a stimulant tends to make it impossible to fall asleep again, sometimes for the rest of the night. So the idea is to try to be asleep again before it starts to kick in, which begins like 20 minutes after taking it if I remember right and peaks about an hour after taking.

What do you mean when you say you took the B-complex "in the morning"? Do you mean when you woke up to take the G? After you got up for the day? Or do you mean the morning before the attempt?

From what I've read, at least concerning B-6, you should NOT take it at the same time as you take the G - it can cause it to metabolize in your stomach rather than your brain, and that will ruin its effectiveness. In fact Thomas Yuschak recommends taking B vitamins the morning BEFORE an attempt (or possibly a little while before going to bed - like maybe an hour before bedtime), so they're still in your system but have fully metabolized by the time you take Galantamine.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

What do you mean when you say you took the B-complex "in the morning"? Do you mean when you woke up to take the G? After you got up for the day? Or do you mean the morning before the attempt?

Yea I took the B-complex during the day before the lucid dreaming attempt like Yuschak said in his book.

I tried WILD for the third time now with G+C, this time I was awake for almost 3 hours before falling asleep. At first I had the buzzing in my ears again but I couldn't move, I couldn't transition into dream state. But eventually I did after a while, and I had a long lucid dream this time, it started off pretty clear but then it quickly got fuzzy and my recall got worse as the dream progressed. Maybe it seems that the G is wearing off by the time I get to sleep?
Maybe I should try your advice next time. In order to preform DEILD, would I need to set my alarm an hour after taking G+C, or do I just get into SP automatically when the Galantamine kicks in? I read some threads about DEILD, but I'm still not too sure how it works with supplements. And I remember Yuschak only talking about WILDs and DILDs when using supplements, with WILD being the main method. Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it.

I was inspired to do Lucid Dreaming after I watched the movie Inception and took B-complex vitamins before going to bed; I had the most vivid lucid dream that night, but I woke up because I got too excited, and then I couldn't get back to sleep. No lucid dreaming induction method, no G. I just wonder why that was more intense and vivid than with G+C and WILD WBTB technique (three times now). I don't mean to be spoiled or anything but I just want to know if I'm using the supplements correctly in order to obtain high level LDs.

Try sleeping for an extra hour before taking the G

I've been reading through this thread over the past week, and received my galantamine/choline combo from dreamamins two days ago.

The first night I took only half a pill, so 2mgG+100mgC, and got to sleep paralysis several times, but never made the transition. However, I did have the longest, most vivid dream since starting my dreamwork up again a month ago. It was a great experience.

Last night however I woke up after 4 hours and took a full pill, laid on my back for about an hour before losing consciousness. There was a brief moment where I woke up in a forest on my back, with donkeys roaming about, the detail was incredible, but when trying to get off the ground I wound up back in bed (no FA, I checked).

Now the strange part comes after I drift into a real sleep, I found myself jumping in and out of the same dreams (inception-esque I guess) went from dream 1 to 2 to awake back to 2 to 1 and to 2 again. During this entire 1or2 hour ordeal, I felt (like I saw NreLax post about many pages back) incredibly drunk. Like, WASTED, I remember saying in the dream to a DC that I felt as if I had chugged 13 martinis, it was horrible and I was falling all over the place I couldn't enjoy the dream in the least. Upon waking, I had a much weaker feeling of the "drunkness" than in the dream, I guess it was the hangover many talk about.

I'm confused as to the dramatic difference between last night's ordeal, and the previous night's spectacular dream, should I just stick to 2/100mg, or do you think I just had too much G/C built up in my body from the repeated use (would only have totaled 6/300mg respectively). Regardless, I'm taking a couple days off before I try again.

Originally Posted by vojkeBDP

Maybe I should try your advice next time. In order to preform DEILD, would I need to set my alarm an hour after taking G+C, or do I just get into SP automatically when the Galantamine kicks in? I read some threads about DEILD, but I'm still not too sure how it works with supplements. And I remember Yuschak only talking about WILDs and DILDs when using supplements, with WILD being the main method. Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it.

Sorry, didn't see this until now.

Hmm, that sounds complicated - I was just talking about waking as little as possible, almost not moving, taking the capsule and getting immediately back to sleep so it's as close as possible to a DEILD. I suppose you could also set an alarm for an hour later, though that would involve a lot more movement and thinking. But keep in mind - a DEILD technically IS a form of WILD. It's just a wild after a brief momentary awakening. Of course, a DEILD attained this way would happen before the G+C kicks in. My main concern is just to get back to sleep before it kicks in and the stimulant properties of it keep you awake.

Originally Posted by Rosewhip137

There was a brief moment where I woke up in a forest on my back, with donkeys roaming about

That sounds awesome!

Originally Posted by Rosewhip137

... incredibly drunk. Like, WASTED, I remember saying in the dream to a DC that I felt as if I had chugged 13 martinis, it was horrible and I was falling all over the place I couldn't enjoy the dream in the least. Upon waking, I had a much weaker feeling of the "drunkness" than in the dream, I guess it was the hangover many talk about.

I'm confused as to the dramatic difference between last night's ordeal, and the previous night's spectacular dream, should I just stick to 2/100mg, or do you think I just had too much G/C built up in my body from the repeated use (would only have totaled 6/300mg respectively). Regardless, I'm taking a couple days off before I try again.

Yeah, it's not a good idea to take it 2 nights in a row. Try taking a week off in between attempts. At least a few days minimum.

Nasty stuff, tried many times, but always makes me ill the next day or two...
It works, don't get me wrong, but my guts do not like it.

First night trying this shit, i want to say its the last, but i just bought a whole pack of it...
So roughly 4 and half hours after sleep i took one, and went straight back to sleep.
Only to lay wide awake for 3 hours. When i have work the next day, my whole night, and day is effectively fucked now.
My fault to do it on a work night i know, but then again, i didnt expect it to keep me wide awake for 3 hours.

You're meant to take it during the day. It has a mentally stimulating effect.

Originally Posted by tommo

You're meant to take it during the day. It has a mentally stimulating effect.

? For alzeimers maybe, everywhere i've read for lucid dreaming including this thread mostly recommend taking it in wbtb, as it doesnt last if you take it before sleep, apparently. I thought i'd go for it seeing as im usually a deep sleeper, but no..

For me this combination helped me remember my dreams, perhaps because they were more dynamic and filled with emotion. However, they did not make it any more likely that a dream would be lucid. My advice, similar to many others is that these may be better for those who have already learned how to turn their dreams lucid, and not the best for people just starting out who think that they are a shortcut.

Originally Posted by Rosewhip137

During this entire 1or2 hour ordeal, I felt incredibly drunk. Like, WASTED, I remember saying in the dream to a DC that I felt as if I had chugged 13 martinis, it was horrible and I was falling all over the place I couldn't enjoy the dream in the least.

I just ordered my first bottle of Galantamind, so I'm looking pretty forward to experimenting with it and seeing what outcomes I happen across.

That experience you talk about has happened to me a couple of times when I'm on the verge of lucidity. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's like my real body is fighting with the dream body. I find it impossible to talk, walk or even see properly; it's like my face is paralyzed and I can only get out garbled words. It's really pretty distressing. A real chore to do anything.
I've put it down to a mismatch in the wiring between the brain understanding what's real and what isn't.

Recent similar example: The other night I had a false awakening where I was looking at a roof. I did a RC and felt my hand move to my nose, pinch it and breathe, but my hands were invisible. I sat up in my bed and felt myself sit up but was still only seeing the roof- like my vision was trapped in one position. Later on I realised that I'd in fact been lying with my eyes open and was seeing my waking-life roof but my consciousness (and senses) was in the dream world. I imagine if I'd tried to speak, I would have faced that same garbled nonsense feeling. I was just a bit more awake this time than other times it's happened.

Not really sure if there's anything that can be done about it. Maybe just the usual trying to ground yourself tricks- but spinning or rubbing your hands is pretty difficult when you can't even move.

Keep me posted on whether or not it happens again while you've taken G- I'm really interested to find out, seeing as I've experienced the same sensations.

Oh I've experienced exactly that on Galantamine! Several times in fact. Let me dig up the links to the relevant DJ entries...

** edit

The entries called Paralyzed and Blind are two of the dreams where I experienced problems like you mentioned: http://www.dreamviews.com/f107/becau...ml#post1392479

I've had experiences on this stuff where I'll go in and out of my real body and lucid body. Like I'll get into a lucid halfway and then ill go back to my real body and this will go back and forth for a while.

Im cautious to have another go at it, if it fucks up my sleep it fucks up my whole day at work so will have to wait it until the weekend.

Yeah, definitely don't do it on work nights!

I don't seem to get any side effects from the pills which is nice. I do have a hard time falling asleep once I take the pill, but I've started taking some L-Theanine along with it which helps me fall asleep like I should. Going to take some tonight if I can wake up 6 hours into sleep, don't want to wake up my girlfriend with the alarm

Mine arrived this morning! I'm going on a trip for the next four days, so I won't get a chance to try them but I'm keen to see how they go. Will keep you guys updated.

Hey guys. I've been following this thread for a while now. I got myself some Galantamind 4mg and some Choline Bitartrate 500mg.

I tried them last night. Got my head down at 2230, slept untill 0300, woke up and took Galantamind 4mg, Choline Bitartrate 500mg and L-Theanine 150mg to help me get back to sleep.
I took them and tried to go right back to sleep. I think I was buzzing with excitement and Galantamine is a stimulant from what I've read on here so it took me about an hour to get back to sleep (maybe I will try 300mg L-Theanine when I try again in 96 hours)
When I did get back to sleep I didn't have any LD as such but my dreams seemed like they meant a lot more to me then they normally do. I woke up and really thought a long time about what I experienced. It was a positive experience non the less even though I didn't attaint lucidity.
I am going to try WILD next time. My question is, I'm quite a big build. Should I try increasing the Galantamine up to 8mg?
I also took 2400mg of Piracetam as soon as I woke up.

I have had two OBEs on my own in the past. I just wanted to experiment with Galantamine and see what its all about.

Cheers guys

Icarus

Sure, try it with 800 and see if it makes a difference. There were plenty of times when I'd take 400 and get nothing, or just a slight effect, then wake up and take another cap and end up having a lucid.

Take note though, usually when I take 800 my dreams get really messed up - I'm blind, or I stumble around like I:m drunk or all I can do is just lay there mumbling like I'm autistic or something. A couple times I dreamed I was wearing a robe slippers and mittens. So yeah, if 400 can do the trick then go with that, but you might need more.

It sounds like you already know this, but it's important to also practice your lucid dreaming techniques - whatever ones you use. RCs, mantras, thinking about lucidity as you fall asleep, etc. Have you had any lucids yet? It's definitely best to use Galantamine after already achieving lucidity a couple of times without it.