Thread: WILD According to Sageous Q & A

Originally Posted by Sageous

In a word: Yes.

(still a bit new to this, so please don't get too annoyed by my questions)

Is it O.K to make this awareness check followed by a reality check, my main method of trying to get a DILD? Should I be trying anything else along with it?

Do you recommend one or tow RRCs per hour?

Originally Posted by Buckey

Is it O.K to make this awareness check followed by a reality check, my main method of trying to get a DILD? Should I be trying anything else along with it?

Do you recommend one or two RRCs per hour?

Including a RC within a RRC seems a fine idea, as it is a good fit, context-wise. I don't think I'd add anything else, though; that could lead to complication and confusion, which runs anathema to successful LD'ing.

Yes, one or two RRC's per hour sounds fine. . Seriously, frequency doesn't matter that much, as long as the RRC's remain significant each time...

is more than that when you get to the really understand it, you pay attention to every detail every move every decision you make, and that will have a major positive influence on your future and those around you . Sweet Dreams

I'm really starting to question if this is worth it. I do a quick 1-2 minute session every hour; however, it feels like I've not increased my awareness. I guess it's possible I'm just slowly increasing it and I don't notice the change, but I'm not too sure how this is suppose to help me with the DILD technique. I've been doing it for about a week now, so I guess I should keep doing it to get better and better.

^^ Yup, you should keep at it, Buckey. A week is not a very long time, when you are doing an exercise meant to adjust your natural, hard-wired, experience of reality itself. This is not a small thing, and can take quite a while. For what it's worth, I've been doing this exercise for years and still am far away from where I want to be, result-wise.

I suggest that you be patient, give the RRC's a chance to take hold (they will, if you're doing them sincerely each time), and look forward to what might happen rather than assume it isn't working -- negative thoughts about stuff like this can pretty much permanently cancel out your effort.

Look at it this way: think in terms of an RRC being a singular experience rather than a thing that's supposed to work.

And yes, RRC's aren't going to help you much with DILD; it's meant for WILD/DEILD. They'll help, of course, but only after you're already aware that you're dreaming...they're not meant to help you become aware. For that (becoming aware) regular RC's work much better.

I hope that helped, and that you hang in there!

Sorry to bother you Sageous, but I've having a hard time with WILD for a couple of months now. I read through your whole guide and many others, I do everything by the books but nothing ever happens. Most of the times I manage to stay there motionless, and just sleep like normal or I don't sleep at all for a good time during and after the attempt.
I usually have a hard time sleeping, be it bedtime or night time. Maybe my body is not sleeping at all, maybe I'm focusing too hard on the process, I don't know.

I just created a thread under the WILD section explaining in more detail my experiences and questions about how I'm doing it. I'm not going to spam/paste it here but if you have the time to read it and give me your valuable advice as a experienced lucid dreamer, I'd love to read your opinion. thank you!

^^ No bother at all, Cuzero!

Based on a quick read of what you wrote, I might be inclined to suggest that you back off WILD for a time, maybe work with DILD or MILD, because those routes to LD's aren't effected by a hard time sleeping, and they work better if you're excited or over-interested, so that extra focus tends to work in your favor.

That said, I'll be sure to check out your thread. We've got some pretty solid experts and Dream Guides here, so I wouldn't be surprised if I don't need to post -- but I will post there if needed.

Good luck!

Thanks man. If you have the time to read it I'd be very grateful.

I just wanted to post to say that this method really has worked for me. I started about, maybe just over a week ago, and the logic behind it makes sense to me, what use is it to discover you're dreaming, if you don't know that you can affect or change it, and that is what I gleaned from just a read through of the original posts.

I have been only semi regularly checking my awareness, and honestly have felt very little change outwardly. I don't have epiphany moments, I don't feel any different, but. What I do realise is that in very physical ways I do affect the world, my car would drive if I didn't steer or press the pedals, that sort of thing. For me it doesn't have to be all about dreaming, and I don't think it should be, self awareness needs to be implanted in everything one does.

As with everyone else, if I'm saying anything wrong here Sageous, I apologise and will gladly be corrected

As for it working for me, I have been trying hard for several months to get lucid, prior to that it was a pass time more than anything, but until I started this course, and I am taking them as they were originally meant, I had little luck with anything. Until last night, maybe it wasn't a direct result of these lessons, but I'm certain they helped, and here's why. I was in a dream, ordinary enough, until I started getting chased, then my awareness kind of slipped away from the dream into a third person aspect, which is kind of my normal state of dreaming rather than third person. I this state i began to commentate on what was happening, 'and then we ran upstairs, or grabbed the bat' that kind of stuff. After a few minutes of this i felt myself shift again, i felt my sleeping body unusually on my back and with my stiff neck twisted to one side, i slipped back into my body, while maintaining the dream in the background. Soon I realised I had begun using my other senses (my eyes were still firmly closed) to see the room around me. I could hear my fish tank, and feel the bed beneath me. I felt the blankets moved when my partner rolled over, I felt my heart beating slowly and listened to my breathing. I could genuinly see my room as though I looked at it through a black veil or dark mist. Once I had realised this, in a split second it took me, I knew I was lucid, and the dream was still playing in the background, so I slipped back into it, taking the role of commentator again. I was coy with doing anything drastic, as I know from brief previous expirences that my stabilisation is woeful, so I just kind of listened and watched to everything unfold before, until I said, 'and then we were lucid' when I woke up with the sound of a rush of air and a feeling of intense excitement or happiness.

Without the awareness of self built up through the practices in this lesson, I would have never realised anything my body was doing, I wouldn't have known when or even what I was feeling. But because I had started to know how I affected the world, it made sense and was closer to relaxing to anything I have ever done before.
One thing I have discover is, that in my dreams at least, unless from a random RC, or a noticing something wasn't how it was a second before, lucidity comes from intense feeling, in my case twice from being scared. I believe that this intense feeling is something that self awareness can only aid and increase. Without knowing how your body responds to the stimuli around and even within then how can your unconscious mind hope to.

I for one am excited to see what happens tonight and know a large part is because of this course, so thanks, Sageous.

What would you think to be the best WILD Technique for a complete beginner?

For the complete beginner? I'd probably recommend DILD, or better yet MILD.

However, at the risk of appearing arrogant, I guess I would have to recommend my own class. Why? Because WILD isn't actually a technique at all, it's a state of mind, where maintaining your frame of reference is more important than any technique or trick, and I think my class does a decent job pointing that out and helping you learn to achieve and maintain that state of mind (that's why I wrote it in the first place).

I also recommend, for the complete beginner, to sample DILD, MILD, and WILD, because each has something to offer, and each works better or worse with different people. I also suggest you get and read a copy of LaBerge's Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, if you haven't already.

Good luck with whichever route you choose!

Thanks! - the reason that WILD Stodd out to me is because I tried it once before, I got to some HI and really enjoyed it, which was cool as I was reading how everyone said that it is scary and not to bother. But I liked it and found it interesting, which is why I have always enjoyed it. It just seems so different and amazing that my mind can conjure all these things, dunno.

Just so I know what to expect, being rapid eye movement, can you actually feel your eyes rapidly moving as you drift into dreamland, or is that a separate sensation altogether?

^^ You really can't feel them move; there's really no sensation of REM at all, except maybe the sensation of "seeing" the images that are beginning to form in your dream.

Though some say that REM happens whether you're dreaming or not, think of it as the result of your eyes following the action of the dream -- it's that action that matters, BTW, and not so much what your eyes are doing.

That's very helpful, thanks. I wasn't really expecting an LD, being so early on, but I figured it was worth a shot, and it seems I was doing something physically wrong, then. It might have been closing my eyes too tightly to try to focus more on anything appearing in my vision instead of the light. Being completely relaxed and taking each thought one at a time has always been hard for me. Hopefully this whole pursuit helps in that regard if nothing else.

I hope it all works for you, chris1255 ... and remember, it's best to always expect a lucid dream, even early on, and even if it takes a while to get there!

I have been trying to WILD for a couple days. Yes I'm a noob haha, but I went to a park with a waterfall today and it helped me come up with a mantra. "Flow". It will cause my dream to start at a waterfall and help me flow into the dream. So I have a question. I can keep awareness like a pro but I never get into a dream. I hear light noises, twitch, see colors, and feel like I'm spinning and I just can't form the dream. Tips besides WBTB? Ill try that soon enough and I use flex-freeze and counting breath and then mantra on exhale.

Welcome, Yezan!

First, you should expect to give your WILD attempts more than a couple of days to start working, though it seems you're on the right path.

From what you've written, it seems your problem could be simply one of timing. You're doing everything right, but you're not catching a REM cycle to easily enter a dream. In other words, if a REM cycle isn't due for a while, even the best "lie still and wait" process might need to go on for quite some time. So if you haven't refined your timing yet, now might be the time.

If you think you've got your timing down, you might just be having a problem forming your dream. This is a bit more complex, but not so bad, because with practice you should be able to use your imagination to work with your sleeping body to bring the dream to you. You might want to check out the Forming the Dream session of my WILD class, if you haven't already.

Beyond that, be patient and keep at it ... if you've already got a handle on self-awareness, you're halfway to success!

Hey Sageous,
My Reverse RC Routine basically follows like this, at random times, I stop whatever I am doing and remain still for the moment, as the realization of being "aware" of the present sets in, I inspect what was the current thought and the corresponding emotion I had with it, I recall where I was and what I was doing 5 minutes ago and what will I most probably will be doing 5 minutes from now, I also become aware in the sense that I remember that I am actually here right now, and that everything around me has an influence on me as I have on them, how I visualize it is, for instance, If I were near my pet, I am altering it's course of actions with my presence and whatever actions I do, in a way, changing the upcoming reality itself, for instance, If I were to call his name at that moment, then the reality of the next moment is that he will respond to me, and if I were to say, instead of call his name, Ignore his presence and go somewhere else, then the reality of the next moment is him not noticing me and thereby different, so this is how I visualize it, although I do not think into such depth as interaction with other atoms and such, It is somewhat hard to explain, but hope you get the idea. so I want to ask, Am I going about this the right way? As it is now, I think I might be a little confused in understanding what Reverse RC is, in its entirety. can you please give me some advice?

^^ I don't know, Kamskun. By your post I think you understand exactly what a RRC is, in its entirely. Indeed, your pet example succinctly describes the RRC's ultimate value of clarifying your place in a dream during the dream. You are indeed going about it the right way; nicely done!

So, for better or worse, I got nothing to add.

Thanks for your feedback.

Alright, here's my question--to anyone who is experienced in successful WILDing.

When I get to a certain point in my WILD attempts, I get really vivid hallucinations--ones that are far different from your standard lights and shapes and stuff that are often the reference of the term Hypnagogic Imagery. I'm not sure *what* they are; the start of dreams, perhaps? Just really vivid HH? Anyway, take this one for example: I'm relaxed and trying to transition from a waking state to a dream state. After the usual HH such as lights and maybe a sound or two (my body is usually sort of numb and tingly at this state), I was sitting at my kitchen table, telling my mother about my WILD attempt. However, the very second I took notice that this wasn't real, the illusion vanished; just POOF, and it was gone. I'm back to staring at the back of my eyelids, waiting for something to happen. This process will usually repeat itself several times, and this is the point I usually fall asleep during my attempts: after 3 or 4 of these...whatever they are.

Am I close to completing a WILD? Note that they aren't disappearing because I'm excited; I'm usually calm when I notice this. It's almost like the act of realizing that it's not real makes the illusion evaporate. So what are these? Are they hypnagagic hallucinations? Are they little mini dreams? If I successfully make it through these aware, will I be in that state where I can transition into a dream? Or, should I be able to somehow use those TO transition? If so, how am I supposed to do it, when the second I realize they aren't real, they vanish?

Hoping someone can clear this up for me :s

~SilverWolf~

I just noticed this thread... rather than start a new thread here, you might do well to either post directly in one of the existing Q & A threads in this forum, or else go to the regular WILD forum and post there, as no one will see it here (even me!).

That said: yes, those were dreamlets, in my opinion. They tend to occur when you're drifting in that place between sleep and wake, where your state allows dreams to begin, but you're still not fully "in" yet. That's why the dreamlets vaporised when you noticed them.

Yes, you were indeed close to completing your WILD! That drifting between states moment means that the actual dream is just around the corner. If this happens again -- and it might just -- I suggest that you let the dreamlets pass and consider yourself close to the dream state. Don't be concerned about them, or their disappearance, as they are very difficult to hold onto. You could use their schemata to help you in forming your dream, but they'll likely be gone before the actual dream arrives.

I hope that helped; let me know if it didn't...

Wasn't sure if I should continue on this thread...I had similar...from my DJ:

attempted wild nap
by fogelbise , 08-16-2013 at 05:42 PM
Thought I would note this because it was unusual for me. I was planning on just doing a regular late afternoon cat nap but noticed the dreamlets starting to pop up and decided to try to wild but every time a new dreamlet would pop up I would seem to wake myself too much by paying attention to them. The interesting thing was that I had something like 12 to 14 different dreamlets or mini dreams in maybe a 20 minute span. Each one was very distinct and not the sort of things that would pop into my mind daydreaming... very dream like in their unusual subject matter. They weren't just images but scenarios with action and some with dialogue.

PS..since I needed to get up after 20 minutes I didn't continue. I assume being aware of mini dreams or dreamlets are not LDs, but do we call that awareness anything?