LDD-Lucid Day Dream

[Finnegan]

My first thread ★‿‿★ LDD-Lucid Day Dream Have you ever been so interested in a skill that you find yourself imagining what can be done with it, actually experimenting in your mind? That is how I came upon this ability; Lucid day-dreaming. The concept is this: both the conscious and subconscious imagination can be advanced to the point that sleeping is no longer required to dream, the transition into dreaming becomes so instantaneous that lucidity is automatic. Perhaps most amazingly, with enough practice the conscious imagination can become stable enough to practice without even resting -or closing your eyes for that matter. Imagine being able to project scenes onto a canvas while you paint, or write music without an instrument, even fully experience and interact with a world as you describe it in writing. Eventually the practitioner can virtually interact with their environment by producing holographic inserts in their minds eye. Of course as with common lucid dreaming, or like any art, it is not always easy starting out, much commitment is required to produce significant results, though the possible rewards are immense and worth the journey. Some people are naturals of the LDD, though it is usually triggered by an interest in some hobby. Most often people will be thinking about something and their thoughts will interact with their imagination, giving them the ability to actively create and/or interact with their own day dream. This can be used practically to solve puzzles, or recreationally for exploration with the mind’s eye. The most useful practice to hone this ability is through learning the basic artistic media’s; visual art, music, acting, and writing. The forethought required while doing these disciplines will train your mind to be able to create something before outwardly making it happen. Though almost any hobby, profession or skill is useful here, these arts specifically tune the ability to a very wide range of uses as they exercise the body’s senses to this goal. It is also useful to absorb ambient information to get a feel for something you wish to emulate. Or even invent things that are otherwise impossible or do not exist in this world. Combining multiple approaches adds a lot of versatility and assists greatly in this ability. When you consciously enter into this mid-point between creation and action, you have achieved the state of LDDing When your mind has become adept at thinking with virtual reality, you may wish to use it in the way you would a classical LD. For starting off, the same practices used in meditation can help achieve the high degree of clear thinking required to learn this during the early stages, though as you progress your creations will become more stable in active environments, until you can go about your business while still using this ability at your whim. Personally I am a natural with this, and have been doing it as long as I can remember, I am starting this thread for people to ask me questions and discuss this topic. Eventually I plan to use what we learn from working on this together to create a more comprehensive tutorial. Enjoy c:

[VagalTone]

i have the impression that natural lucid dreamers like to visualize and daydream a lot, so it makes sense to develop these skills Perhaps most amazingly, with enough practice the conscious imagination can become stable enough to practice without even resting -or closing your eyes for that matter. Imagine being able to project scenes onto a canvas while you paint, or write music without an instrument, even fully experience and interact with a world as you describe it in writing. Eventually the practitioner can virtually interact with their environment by producing holographic inserts in their minds eye. yes, it would be a superhuman skill , i guess some people can develop it ( i am thinking about Bethoven ). did you already achieve this ?

[Finnegan]

Yes, I am a natural at both lucid dreaming and this, I have been using both of them as long as I can remember, and they greatly contributed to my choice of professionalizing as an artist. I have some professional experience many art forms and this ability definitely gives me an extra edge. I do commissioned paintings, as well as recreationally and sketch my imagination quite a bit, it has been amazing in improving my ability to reproduce my imagination, helping with creating original styles and ideas. I spent a few years as a street illusionist, my experience of this gave me the inspiration and motivation to method act that I actually had the powers I was showcasing, as well as quickly calculate the angles require to hold the illusion. After that I preformed as a improvisational comedian and method actor, and It would allow me to imagine myself in the characters world, to improve the realism of the setting. I'm currently going to university to learn novel writing, which I've chosen because I want to compose virtual orchestras of my dreams. Lately I've been writing song lyrics for a band (One of the members is on this site and we're urging the vocalist to join too), and quite a bit of love poems, my verse is mostly about fantastically surreal scenes that I would not have realized without my long time efforts with the LDD. Haha, I listen to Beethoven a lot, he is a huge inspiration for me. Just like their sleeping cousin, it takes motivation and effort starting out, though I'm sure it is possible to do without being a savant. That is why I've started this thread; so we can work on creating techniques useful for achieving this.

[vortex716]

This is some 25th century idea. not only, while fully awake, achieve lucidity, but then even projecting your thoughts onto the real world, this is virtual reality on steroids! First of all, this is an awesome idea, and yet, from my current point of view, almost impossible. when I discovered LD for the first time, I started practicing achieving lucid state while awake by doing several reality checks (pinch my nose, turning on and of a light switch, looking at my hands for irregularities and so on), after I concluded that I'm awake I begun on imagining what would I do if I was in a lucid dream and started to develop it inside my head : I would imagine the place where I've been at that moment, and start to jump high, run really, really fast, enhancing my vision, feel stronger and so on, i started to climb up buildings and then jump down, and right before i land, i would slow my fall and land safely. personally, it was a tremendous effort to maintain clarity, but damn it was a good exercise, i remember i was trying to emulate the feeling of my body into my imagination and start experimenting with things like imagining a lighting ball body would cross my body and try to feel the effect. i was very close to almost just burst into a dream realm that it frightened me. one of the times that i tried it was during class, and it started to overcome my consciousness so much that i almost jumped from my sit (i just jiggled a little bit like a moron). So if this idea is to become a valid tutorial, count me in. i would share any amount of experience and thoughts that i could gather from my mushy brain. by the way, the idea of thought projection also accurred to me when i was trying to consciously enter a lucid dream (there's also a method called WILD - Wake initiated lucid dream, which is entering a lucid state while conscious) i begun imagining numbers and letters forming in front of my eyes and little by little building a sentence or an equation (couldn't concentrate enough to maintain clarity and write down what was happening), this thought alone made me trippy. yay SO MY FRIENDS, SHALL WE BEGIN WITH THE EXPERIMENTS!!!!

[GenericLDer]

Great thread. I believe that this is definitely possible. Monks and many other "spiritual" people have gotten so good at visualization that they have been able to actually see what they're imagining. Having said that, it will take considerable practice for the average person to get to that level. I'm diagnosed Bi-Polar and during manic swings I have achieved the LDD. I believe for me to achieve this without any aids would take a lot of practice with visualization and meditation. I hope we can develop a tutorial that uses specific methods to develop visualization skills to the point of the LDD. My only input at this point is practicing meditation and visualization everyday. Regardless of the results this will help us all with LDing anyways so there's nothing to lose. By the way the OP and I are friends and from knowing him for many years it's clear he is a savant. I don't doubt for a second he can achieve this on a regular basis.

[Nihlus]

Well, this seems like it would be pretty cool. Looking forward to seeing what happens.

[PostScript99]

Yes, I am a natural at both lucid dreaming and this, I have been using both of them as long as I can remember, and they greatly contributed to my choice of professionalizing as an artist. I have some professional experience many art forms and this ability definitely gives me an extra edge. I do commissioned paintings, as well as recreationally and sketch my imagination quite a bit, it has been amazing in improving my ability to reproduce my imagination, helping with creating original styles and ideas. I spent a few years as a street illusionist, my experience of this gave me the inspiration and motivation to method act that I actually had the powers I was showcasing, as well as quickly calculate the angles require to hold the illusion. After that I preformed as a improvisational comedian and method actor, and It would allow me to imagine myself in the characters world, to improve the realism of the setting. I'm currently going to university to learn novel writing, which I've chosen because I want to compose virtual orchestras of my dreams. Lately I've been writing song lyrics for a band (One of the members is on this site and we're urging the vocalist to join too), and quite a bit of love poems, my verse is mostly about fantastically surreal scenes that I would not have realized without my long time efforts with the LDD. Haha, I listen to Beethoven a lot, he is a huge inspiration for me. Just like their sleeping cousin, it takes motivation and effort starting out, though I'm sure it is possible to do without being a savant. That is why I've started this thread; so we can work on creating techniques useful for achieving this. So..I could spend the rest of my life in the lucid realm...AWESOME!! XD -but I wonder why I haven't heard of this..

[Finnegan]

So it isn't just me, I know GenericLDer personally, and he is amazing at using this skill for music, Vortex716, it sounds like you've had some experience. As I said it is often triggered by being very interested in something, in these cases; music and lucid dreaming. What we should be looking for as people gather with reports of having used this, is common factors in what caused it. Because what works for most people is likely to have success as a tutorial. So I urge all of you, especially those who have already achieved this, to record your experiences with it, I am going to start a sister thread in lucid experiences to collect peoples experience with this. I will be watching over them and looking for some silver thread between them we can use for an induction technique. PostScript99 - I don't think it's all that uncommon, just nobody has bothered to define it and give it a catchy name till I came along. I have a feeling that most people daydream at time's throughout their lives, and I'm just suggesting we can achieve the equivalent of WILDs and DILDs with daydreams too. Which happens to have some pretty big implications.

[LifeIstheDream]

I really, really like this idea! Although, I don't entirely understand what goes on in a person's head while in a LDD....Do you just try to envision yourself in a consciously produced dream, with eyes closed and everything? Does this require a certain awareness of surroundings, like in meditation, or is it entirely what's created in your head? This idea seems a lot like Lucid Living, where one lives as if he/she is in a lucid dream, with complete control and awareness. But this is like a meeting point of Lucid Dreaming and Lucid Living, is it not?

[Jabre]

i have the impression that natural lucid dreamers like to visualize and daydream a lot, so it makes sense to develop these skills yes, it would be a superhuman skill , i guess some people can develop it ( i am thinking about Bethoven ). did you already achieve this ? I used to run a lot. I would frequently lucid daydream during this time. At soccer, I would sometimes fall out of reality while thinking. The trick is to actually perceive both realties simultaneously. Also, if you practice all day awareness, you will see how many times we just blank out everyday; letting our subconsciousness take control many times a day. It is a shame how many people sleep-walk through both their dreams and their life... off topic though.

[Finnegan]

-LifeIstheDream I'm describing something I do that is very versatile, and can be used in many different ways. Most simply it is the ability to enter a lucid dream at any point in the day; eye's closed or open, asleep or awake, meditating or active. The dream you enter can either be consciously created or you can interact with subconscious imagination lucidly, you can imagine a completely different world, or overlay your minds eye on your environment (such as imagining the audience in their underwear). What I use the LDD for is the catalyst for Lucid living, the mind needs to be able to have total control of the particular dream at anytime before it can create it, and this is how I practice and achieve that. -Jabre also I've found that when perceiving both simultaneously it is useful to know the difference between the outside world, the subconscious, and your own thoughts, it very much keeps things in order.

[Darkmatters]

Sometimes I have amazing visualization skills - I think it's when I'm maybe a little sleep deprived and ready to drop straight into REM. Would lucid daydreaming be easier in such a state (for a beginner I mean)? And then maybe as you develop your skills you can do it more often? I guess it's about opening up the channels between the subconscious and conscious minds that normally like to be closed. Hmmm this is pretty cool - I actually seem to be in just such a state right now.. I'm looking at my stopmotion puppets on the animation table next to me and I can very easily imagine them in motion, and it's almost as if it's happening. Yes, this can definitely be a powerful tool for an animator..

[SIMDML]

I guess I'm a natural at LDD, I have pretty crazy visualization skills and I hadn't really found the limit yet. I often start daydreaming about something random and actually end up not being conscious of the real word for a short while. I do a lot of drawing and I'm a really visual person, so I'm best at visualizing the image, but I can without any problems visualize touch, eating, but in like most lucids, taste and smell gets neglected most of the time. I started ADA recently, and realized how many times I snap out of reality. I can't put a number on how many times I do it, but I'd say that most of the time I can't get 30 minutes of ADA in a row. I actually never thought this was unusual or special.

[PostScript99]

Well, I can introduce auditory hallucinations at will now, am I getting closer?

[Finnegan]

-SIMDML Cool we need some more people like you to help with studying practical techniques for the newbies, I know it can often feel like magic, but that's what highly advanced science is. The people like us should be figuring out what we're doing right to help out the beginners I'm actually very good with taste and smell, though you're right they don't come up very often. But think about how awesome it is to eat as much cake as you want and not get fat !!! And smell can be one of the most useful ones; it's so well tied to memory that if you can remember a scent and replicate it with LDD it can help bring back the relative memory, great for recall! -Postscript99 I'm not sure if you mean hallucinations as in subconsciously created, though if you do it's thin tightrope to be walking. I would first focus on telling the difference between your states of perception so that you will be able to properly function in society while hallucinating a trick I use to practice knowing the difference is keeping three diaries, one is a dream journal (subconscious) which you make entries in after recalling a dream, usually kept on a table next to your bed, the second is a diary of your thoughts which you carry with you and record anything you should remember, and lastly a journal on your daily experiences which you can keep somewhere you will find it at the end of the day (a computer desk for example). This way you get to know the differences between each of the states -how your subconscious thinks(dream), how you think(thought), and how they differ from your external environment. Then you use the familiar process of comparing these dreamsigns so you are lucid of which state the information is coming from. Hehe, I play orchestras with my thoughts to relax sometimes but I had to start somewhere, so you are definitely making some progress

[GenericLDer]

I've been practicing some visualization methods. One that I find useful is visualizing yourself flying while you're in a car/bus or w/e. What I imagine is that i'm hovering about 10 feet about the vehicle and traveling at the same speed. I try to feel the wind on my face and listen to the traffic sounds.

[Finnegan]

I've been practicing some visualization methods. One that I find useful is visualizing yourself flying while you're in a car/bus or w/e. What I imagine is that i'm hovering about 10 feet about the vehicle and traveling at the same speed. I try to feel the wind on my face and listen to the traffic sounds. Very cool! just make sure not to get distracted if you're the one driving, I know you're a bit young for that but sometimes it's best to do this with minimal external distractions, which brings me to my next point... Sometimes I have amazing visualization skills - I think it's when I'm maybe a little sleep deprived and ready to drop straight into REM. Would lucid daydreaming be easier in such a state (for a beginner I mean)? And then maybe as you develop your skills you can do it more often? I guess it's about opening up the channels between the subconscious and conscious minds that normally like to be closed. Hmmm this is pretty cool - I actually seem to be in just such a state right now.. I'm looking at my stopmotion puppets on the animation table next to me and I can very easily imagine them in motion, and it's almost as if it's happening. Yes, this can definitely be a powerful tool for an animator.. Thanks for pointing that out! I have been keeping note of the causes for induction of the LDD and you bring up some valid points, especially linking the conscious and subconscious mind. When you can tell you subconscious what to imagine and it can create a likeness from your instructions, that is definitely a useful way of looking at the LDD. Earlier I mentioned that a common trigger is a personal interest (neat that you were visualizing your puppetry ), what you've made me realize is that the subconscious is being trained to imagine these things by your active interest in the subject, then when it is linked directly to your waking mind through sleep deprivation or meditation, voila! all it needs is a little push in the right direction and we are LDDing. I think we've made a breakthrough in the science side, now we just have to develop some techniques around it

[SIMDML]

-SIMDML Cool we need some more people like you to help with studying practical techniques for the newbies Thank you! I will be happy to help you in this awesome project The way it works for me is that I just recently asked myself "why the heck shouldn't I be able to visualize touch?" and challenged myself to do so and I was successful after a bit of practice. Then I realized that by combining it with sight it was really realistic, like a fully stabilized LD. So the way I got there is just by practising visualization... I am still very new to the concept and currently experimenting. I hope that answers your questions, and I will be happy to answer any other questions you may have. Simon

[Finnegan]

-SIMDML awesome! Goal setting is definitely useful for focusing the trigger interest (sometimes it is a simple as being interested in the LDD, and other times we need to be interested something else to get motivation). One question I have for you is what exactly do you do for practice? That's one thing I'm taking note of so that we can develop them into induction techniques for the tutorial.

[SIMDML]

The way practice is just by visualizing a random scene, visualize the touch then interact/mess around with it. I think I found a nice way to practice it (however it only covers sight): just close your eyes and visualize what you would actually see if they were open. Since you have your eyes closed and only sight is taken care of, I think it would a pretty good beginner exercise. Let me know what you think about it. I'm going to try to figure out how to rapidly snap out of reality and find a way to extend it's duration. I have some more ideas for the tutorial but I don't have enough time to write ATM. I should be able to write a shot message tomorrow. Simon

[Finnegan]

-SIMDML; good thinking, an exit strategy will be very useful, I usually know which reality is which by instinct and then stop thinking about my fabricated one, and focus on the external, though to do this you have to be aware of both so you don't have a "false awakening". Something more flexible is in order so we can get deeper into the daydream say while in a trance. Awaiting your future posts! this gives me an idea, if we induce sleep paralysis, we can LDD while our body is resting and do it all day! I think we have enough to start building a basic tutorial, I'll will organize the notes and make the result into a dream journal entry here on dv, then put the link in my signature. of course any stories reports and techniques are still welcome for futher progress!

[ninoslavi]

I am also all day in my head... but i don't know if that could be like real lucid dream while wake. I, like, really lose myself through the day , and most of the time i am visualizing something and thinking in pictures but i don't have that same filing as being lucid for real. I am very interested in this, because i am really trying to improve my mental skills. I like using mnemonic techniques and I really improved my memory with this LDD like thing.

[Finnegan]

NOTICE I have posted a sister thread in lucid experiences so from now on enter all the LDD experiences you want to share over there (here's the link) from now on this thread should be about discussion of techniques unless it's absolutely necessary to refer to an experience. thanks --------------- ninoslavi - It takes a lot of experience to achieve full immersion with LDD, I am going to post the link to a mnemonic approach to learn it that I am designing with the help of this thread (you'll be able to find it in my signature and I will make a notice about it here)

[PostScript99]

When you LDD, is it exactly like LDing, where your subconscious generates a world you can explore? And do your eyes have to be closed?

[Finnegan]

When you LDD, is it exactly like LDing, where your subconscious generates a world you can explore? And do your eyes have to be closed? Yes, although I often create the worlds myself it is possible to partially let go (especially once you have trained your subconscious to dream on command), and let the world be created around you. Like I said earlier, the LDD is trained by interests in things until your subconscious knows enough to interact with them virtually (a normal daydream) although once you have done this you will be able to access that daydream and interact with it using just like normal dream control. The more you develop your subconscious in this way it will learn how to access the subtle things you learn about with or without consciously realizing it. You can even kick start a scene you want by imagining some of the detail and then explore. With the proper practice, when you expect something to appear, it will, just like you might make something appear in a normal LD. As for the eyes, you can do both, although it is a very different experience, it takes a lot of focus to do it with eyes open, though I do do it all the time, though you are seeing with both your light eyes and minds eye simultaneously and they can sometimes dissipate each others focus if you aren't really good at multitasking. With eye's closed it can be more easy to learn because there is less room for distractions, on the other hand, while doing the step of training your subconscious it can sometimes be helpful to open your eyes and take references of the things you are absorbing.