Thread: Been at it for 2 years, no luck

From what you've said it looks like your main problem is motivation and of course after not getting the results you expected it's easy to lose motivation quickly when you try so hard and feel so far away from a lucid dream I know the pain but what I would say is you need to pick one method that you have found the easiest to do properly with your schedule and stick it out for a good month, even just make time in your schedule sounds like its not a high priority if you don't have time for it I have two kids and very bizi life but still make the time and take note I have to be at work at 5am if I can make the time I'm sure you can spare 15 min a day to dj or just focus on a technique etc.

I would say the main problem is you have created this expectation that lucid dreaming is impossible for you when it's only ever one night away, just stick at it and make a habit of your reality checks and especially dj, and even throw in a bit of ada or self awareness if you can stay focused for atleast a month or so I'm sure you will start to see some results

1. Dream Journal is not mandatory tho. You can do fine if you can remember dreams a bit just by lying in bed still after waking up while trying to remember what were you dreaming about

2. From what i've readed here it seems like your attempting a wild category techniques. It's not mandatory for you to not move at start. You just need to fall asleep same way you do at night yet with this technique you need to retain consciousness aswell
So your trying to fall asleep while doing something to keep your mind engaged. Yet remember if you engage it too much then you won't be able to sleep

3. You could try DEILD n' CAN-WILD Aswell if you still want to stick to WILD Type Techniques.
There are two types of techniques:
- DILDs - Lucid Dreams that start within dream (You become suddenly lucid within dream)
- WILDs - Lucid Dreams that start before even dream did (Keeping awareness as body fall asleep etc.)
WILDs are usually slightly hard comparingly to DILDs
DILDs should be usually a starting techniques since they are not so problematic as WILDs in your first attempts...

4. It might be due to lack of stabilization?
When we become lucid in our dreams we usually need to stabilize them or they will end in few minutes or just nearly-instantly collapse. Keep yourself calm and perform stabilization technique and it should be fine

I'd suggest you reading up those threads:
Dream Stabilization and Clarity Tutorial - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-cont...-tutorial.html
And probably going for DreamViews Intro Class too:
http://www.dreamviews.com/intro-clas...sons-i-iv.html
It explains general stuff about lucid dreaming along with DILD Type Techniques...

- Goodluck

I recently had problems with LD and this is what I found out, maybe it will help you too: Mind Relaxation DILD Tutorial - More concentration doesn't mean LD

Well maybe you should try taking a break and forgetting all about LDs for a month or so. Like don't think about them ever for a nice period of time. I recommend this because several times after repeated failed efforts I was getting worse due to lack of confidence. I have been going at it sluggishly for 4 years, but only recently did I start to actually try really hard and I have noticed results. It seems like this hasn't worked for you, but I know SSILD will work for me. It's not about what works, it's about confidence. You believe it is going to work, but in a more active way. It is like you are pushing the belief. You believe it. The standard definition of believing something is more of a passive sense, and I am talking about an active sense. Like you force it into your mind. Then once you have 100% confidence it should work.

Not being able to DJ is not a huge loss imo. I haven't DJed in over a year except for really cool lucid dreams. That's mainly for improving recall and finding dream signs. So don't worry about the DJ, cause I sure don't

Sounds like you need to stay away from WILD techniques and try to go for some DILDs. Honestly I think the only thing you really need to LD is WBTB + motivation. And I mean actually staying up long enough to wake up your logical mind before going back to bed. It's really hard to get up in the middle of the night but if you really want to have LDs you need to get used to this. Play a game of chess or some thinking game on your phone to stimulate your logical thinking. If you do that, you'll notice yourself really questioning the weird stuff that happens in your dreams.

That's where motivation comes in. If you are expecting to notice when you're dreaming and you really want to have an LD then that will make it easier for you to notice when you're dreaming when you have the increased awareness form the WBTB. Give that a try and see if it works. Note that you may have some temporary insomnia if you do WBTB for a long time but the longer it takes to go to sleep afterwards the more alert you'll be in your dreams.

For motivation I suggest reading people's dream journals and read Sensei's Secrets thread.

Originally Posted by Phayzon

So yeah my title basically explains my dilemma. Lucid Dreaming still is one of the biggest things I yearn to do, it's sounds so amazing and such a fulfilling experience, but I really haven't even gotten in close .

It's been 2 years ever since I first came across the subject of lucid dreaming, and it was back when people said all you need to do is lie in bed and count letters without moving for 20-25 minutes. I quickly learned it's not that easy. After I came across LD4all and Dreamviews I learned the true difficulty of lucid dreaming. And to this day I have not succeeded. I've maybe had a few dreams that were close, but obviously not close enough. To outline my problems:

1. I cannot DJ, I've tried but I always forget during my busy schedule and in fact it has come to the point where I can't even fit it into my schedule. I know this is a huge loss but I just really can't do anything about it. Any tips?

2. I have dry skin/itchy skin so it makes lying in bed still 10 times harder. I feel like this is making it worse when it comes to relaxing my body and staying still to make my mind think my body is asleep, so I don't know what to do or what to think if I get that insane sensation.

3. No method has really worked for me, so I switch a lot. I've tried a lot of user-made methods, MILD, WILD, SSILD, FILD, and a lot others and none of them have worked. I'm not sure what road to start on if I hadn't had success.

4. In dreams where I realize I'm dreaming (like nightmares) I tell myself I'm dreaming and then wake up. I'm guessing this is because this only happens in nightmares which are really scary and when I say "I'm dreaming" my mind wants me to wake up rather than make me lucid, but ultimately I'd rather become lucid.

These 4 issues are the biggest ones I've faced so far, but really it's just finding the time and motivation to fit it in my sleep schedule. it really sucks losing sleep or focusing deeply for weeks and not getting a single result. But then again I don't want to have to endure ANOTHER 2 years without a LD, that would suck so much.

I think that's all for now, let me know if you need anymore info. Any help appreciated. Thanks!

+ You do not say anything about your dream recall, please do so.

+ I will disagree with the more veteran responses and say a DJ is in fact critical especially for beginners. Until you get to the point where you remember your dreams in great detail every single night, keeping a DJ is of enormous benefit. Once your recall stabilizes at a high level, you can think about stopping it, but until then (and you'll know yourself when you get there, usually once you start getting lucid a lot more) start and maintain the dj.

+ The lack of a DJ points to a lack of serious commitment, and LDing is a "want" rather than a "need" for you. Just how much during those two years have you been trying every single day and night? You have to *need* it, and for needs people make lifestyle changes. As an example of a need, to me it is an unmitigated disaster to have a no-recall night. I MUST remember dreams every night. I however do not stress about them, because stress is a dream and LD killer, but I'm VERY grumpy on a day with no or poor recall. And it lights a fire under my butt to double, triple my day work, and to set strong intention to wake during the night in order to recall the early sleep cycle's dreams.

+ you need to tell us a lot more about exactly what you do during the day and during the night in order to get lucid. In other words, what are your "day work" and "night work" on a typical day? What do you do and how often/how long do you do it. Do you stick with your day work each and every day (and night work each and ever night)? Go into detail.

The more detail you go into about everything relating to LDing (what books have you read, what major threads on the forums have you read, and so on) and your practice, the more use we can be to you.

As for a course of action: for *everybody* who has not had their first LD yet, read and follow LaBerge to the letter, in his "A Course In Lucid Dreaming" (accompanies the book Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming). Already read both ACILD and ETWOLD? Read them again! Forgetting that you "know" about lucid dreaming, assuming that you've missed something (because in 2 years of practice and no LDs, you *have* missed something).

Focusing on LaBerge and recall + MILD/DILD and his day work (PM exercises, reflection/intention moments, RCs, goal setting, staying positive, being excited about LDing) will be ideal for you. If lying still is an issue then WILD-based approaches should be put on hold until you get some solid LDs under your belt from DILD/MILD. Thrashing around from approach to approach means you do not get good at any of them. Do LaBerge DILD/MILD, and stick with it until your first few LDs, *know* that it works, because it DOES! Get really excited about your first LD! It will happen if you put in the effort and it becomes at the level of "need." Good luck!

Never stop working on recall, it is everything to LDing. Every time you wake up, reach for recall, every single time. Don't be satisfied with little fragments, always reach deeper. This will build recall and will give you a solid foundation for LDing.

Start a workbook in the DV Academy DILD course and write it in every day or close to every day.

Read my DILD workbook, I document the journey of my first year there in great detail, the highs and the lows, and the ultimate gradually building successes.

I agree with several of the points made earlier (especially about WBTB and commitment), but I would put another issue before all the others: do you sleep well?

The point here is, that if you have poor sleep quality, then you will not be dreaming as much, because your bodys needs come before dreaming (we're hardwired that way).

You mention that you have difficulty lying still, because of itching skin. I would suggest that you (preferably) cure the skin issue, or (second best) drug yourself appropriately before bedtime. And with "drug" I think of herbal teas that soothe, and calm your mind (so that it doesn't care so much about the itch), and relax the physical body (so that it can rest quickly after going to bed). In the former category you will find nice herbs such as chamomile, lemon balm, california poppy, valerian, catmint (and many others). In the latter category there are such ones as chamomile (again), Gotu kola, and licorice (and probably further ones beyond those).

Ideally, you should probably get something like 5 hours of solid, restful, deep sleep right after going to bed. And then 3 hours or so of primarily dream time after a WBTB-break. If the deep, restful sleep is taken care of, then your chances of lucidity in the very early morning most probably will rise considerably.

Originally Posted by Voldmer

I agree with several of the points made earlier (especially about WBTB and commitment), but I would put another issue before all the others: do you sleep well?

The point here is, that if you have poor sleep quality, then you will not be dreaming as much, because your bodys needs come before dreaming (we're hardwired that way).

You mention that you have difficulty lying still, because of itching skin. I would suggest that you (preferably) cure the skin issue, or (second best) drug yourself appropriately before bedtime. And with "drug" I think of herbal teas that soothe, and calm your mind (so that it doesn't care so much about the itch), and relax the physical body (so that it can rest quickly after going to bed). In the former category you will find nice herbs such as chamomile, lemon balm, california poppy, valerian, catmint (and many others). In the latter category there are such ones as chamomile (again), Gotu kola, and licorice (and probably further ones beyond those).

Ideally, you should probably get something like 5 hours of solid, restful, deep sleep right after going to bed. And then 3 hours or so of primarily dream time after a WBTB-break. If the deep, restful sleep is taken care of, then your chances of lucidity in the very early morning most probably will rise considerably.

Sleep is not an issue for me, if I go to sleep I sleep like a rock and get more than enough than the minimum. The itchiness really comes when lying still in bed for something like WILD and then those sensations that come are ten times worse due to my skin. I can't cure it because it's genetic, and there is no cure. A simple lotion/herbs/etc is not enough to curb it so I have to just live with it.

My dream recall is pretty good I'd say for someone who doesn't DJ. I usually can recall most of my dreams, but not entire dreams, just important/significant bits and pieces. For example I remember part of my dream from last night of me just laying in bed while it was broad daylight. But I understand DJing is important, just gotta fit it in my schedule :/

If this itching prevents you totally from WILDing/DEILDing/CAN-WILDing then you can try going for DILD Type Techniques
DILD Techniques don't need you to do anything else than fall asleep and thanks to daytime practice become lucid within it
Be it either caused by reality checks or some fancy awareness

Couple things I've noticed.

First of all, you don't need to lie still to WILD. At least two of my four WILDs (I know, not much) have occurred directly after changing my sleeping position. KingYoshi mentions this in his WILD guide, and I know I've seen Sageous mention it in his WILD thread.

Concerning recall and DJing, I'll have to concur w/ FryingMan. I have seen my recall really diminish on days where I've been lazy w/ DJing. I think any dream moment can be potentially important, as they can help illuminate problems w/ your daytime practice. It really is not enough (at least starting out) to mentally scan and ask, "Was I lucid or not?" Who knows what important info you are missing out on.

Why don't you sketch bullet points? It's nowhere near as good as writing it out firstly after the dream, but it's better than nothing. Also--you don't have time to DJ? Who does? Wake up earlier.

Probably this has been said already, but I find a common event in your post OP.. and that is:

I cannot
I does not work

Try to change a state of mind on this, I know how frustrating it is. I suffer fingerpain and WILDS are a problem for me. I can relax my entire body even as I type this, but I always feel bother at fingers and toes, so I looked for another avenue.

Try to stop focusing on the handicaps and hardships, just focus on the fact that you want to lucid dream and you will lucid dream tonight or very soon. That will help a lot. Use it as a mantra. If negative thoughts come to you, surround those thoughts with an imaginary black circle and then cross it, with blank "ink" Then imagine you toss it away from the Earth. Do it as many times as a negative thoughts come to you, and replace it with visualizations of lucid dreaming and finally reaching your goal

Not being able to DJ is a toll, can you voice record? That is faster.

Go Back to ssild. But if you feel really, sleepy, you MUST MUST MUST get out of bed. Even do the extrasize in your char. I think sild has about an 85-90% success rate. Also it can be used repeatedly, unless you are lazy like me

Originally Posted by MilesPrower

Go Back to ssild. But if you feel really, sleepy, you MUST MUST MUST get out of bed. Even do the extrasize in your char. I think sild has about an 85-90% success rate. Also it can be used repeatedly, unless you are lazy like me

Doesn't work like that for everyone. For me, SSILD alone is not enough to properly induce. All it really does for me (like any meditative WILD anchor) is cause false awakenings, almost seamless transitions, or WILDs.

I have tried SSILD after WBTB and I was absolutely sure that I was awake enough and I could focus on it, but it took me a bit to fall asleep again and nothing happened at all. Would it be easier for me to do SSILD and then WILD instead of going to sleep?

Edit: I forgot to mention that SSILD makes me feel like I am WILDing, I get a heavy feeling in my limbs and start to feel floaty or spacy, does that mean I can just use it to do WILD? This is because it seems like SSILD alone doesn't work.

Yes SSILD can be used to WILD, despite what the guide will tell you.

Could there potentially be something I'm doing wrong that made SSILD not work?

Hi,

First, I will reply to this quoted piece of post, and also your comment about the DJ:

Originally Posted by MisakaMikoto

1. Dream Journal is not mandatory tho. You can do fine if you can remember dreams a bit just by lying in bed still after waking up while trying to remember what were you dreaming about

I don't agree 100% with that. While it's true you can recall dreams thinking about them, writing the journal helps a lot more, at least it does for me.

For instance, I wake up and lets say first think I remember is my last dream. I see it like a movie there, and I first do a review of it with my mind, to try getting all the details. Did something happened before I arrived there, or how did I arrive?.. hmm no memories... I know the ending, so I just pick my pen and write.

As I'm writting, suddenly another dream, or past scene from that same dream, comes to mind. If I expect to write it after finishing writting this one, it just vanishes (it happened). So I just write down some keywords, for example: "dad, our old house, cousin, big car, jumping scorpion..." and funny that as I am writting them, more keywords come to mind, and even in some cases a PREVIOUS dream... so I write more and more keywords on the side of the notebook.

Then I continue with my last, fresh dream. Sometimes I try to remember the other dreams, just to test my memory and even excercise it, but it's gone... or I remember a couple keywords, but not the others until I look at them. And I've been writting daily DJ for +1 year now.

So, my advice? Keep a DJ, no matter the cost. If you have to set the alarm clock 15 minutes earlier, do it. Some days I write small dreams in just 5 minutes. Some times I am there 30 minutes writting several pages. Also, I wake up 2-3 times during the night, and I think this is due to me getting used to sleep cycles, which also allows me to write a couple dream at 2-3am and then 4-5am. Dreams that I don't even remember at 7am when alarm hits, unless I read them, something also recommended to excercise the memory.


About your other points. Remember that LD should be done after sleeping at least 3-5 hours, depending on the person. Silence is very recommended, and darkness. Also maybe if you never have an LD this makes it more difficult. I started investigating because I had a small couple ones by accident. I also recommend you get used to RC every time you wake up. And I mean every time. Some day you may catch a false awakening, something common on people as I've read, even in non-LDs. If you get one maybe you slowly get your brain used to the feeling, and it helps with other techniques.

And of course, a sleep schedule is very recommended.

Good luck!