Thread: DEILD help

Thanks princessflare!

- Repetitively shuffling cards is my visualization of choice to replace thinking when trying to fall asleep or/and WILD. Sometimes as I shuffle, there's a chance one of the cards will fall naturally (as my mind attempts to fight the routine) and then I get to see the art on the face of a playing card or a tarot card. This helps me commit to the repetitive action. I find bobbing my finger too boring. Kind of like counting sheep, and next, it's a rabbit instead.
- The second lane refers to IndigoRose's metaphor. In your consciousness, I could be focusing my attention on counting 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, but also be aware of an inner dialogue "Didn't I count past these numbers already? Why am I still not falling asleep. I might be doing all of this wrong" and maybe you vaguely see sheep jumping over a fence with your inner eye. Depending on what your attention is focused on, the counting might be in the "primary lane" and the dialogue and visualization might be in secondary lanes, until you focus on the dialogue and now the dialogue is first lane, and the counting is second lane. Any moment, any of these things can fall out of consciousness (outside of lanes altogether). This is the mental equivalent of listening to someone talk but also being aware of your environment. Within your consciousness at any moment, there are more than one thing, and there's kind of a hierarchy of what your attention is focused on at any given moment. And as your mind moves around, anything could fall out of consciousness. So, I'm not sure exactly, how I want to organize my lanes so to speak during a falling asleep/WILD/DEILD attempt, but what I wrote is that I wanted shuffling cards to be in my awareness, but not have my full attention. My full attention was meant to be aimed at emptiness. Other thoughts would have popped into my mind about then like "I will be dreaming" "I am asleep" etc... So, that was the plan anyway. The reason you were confused, I think, is because I mentioned this in my post, but I also said I might not have done this. I tried this every time I fell asleep since my participation in this thread earlier, but I am not sure I did it for this DEILD, because I was already asleep and did not need to fall asleep. My memories are not perfect, sorry. So my retelling is jumbled. I had a lot of dreams to recall this morning so the exact chronology is lost
- Playing with my superhero figurine (turning it in my hands) is supposed to replace shuffling the cards as a reminder of my goal to do the Task of the Year.
- About forgiving my previous thoughts: At this point, I was aware that I was thinking and thinking about thinking. You know: "I am thinking too much and this is waking me up. Stop thinking! This is also thinking, stop it" So instead of thinking my way out of thinking, or exerting effort to stop thinking which could wake me up, I "forgave" my thoughts (I stopped thinking about them, like, it's fine whatever, I am aware of them and ready to move on), not: "STOP THINKING." Moving on, if I was still awake, I would just shuffle cards or play with the figurine. I also sometimes imagine I am in a waiting room playing with the armchair. Waiting to be asleep. I don't know what I am waiting for honestly. Sometimes, I am aware that I can't move and I think maybe this means I am asleep but I don't feel asleep other than the fact I can't move. Maybe someone can clear this out for me, haha, but I just keep waiting. Anyway, today, it was a DEILD, I was already asleep so I was already ready to not do something so repetitive and visualize a dream...
- About first visuals:

I do wish Sivason would share some thoughts on this: there are two kind of inner eye visuals I can distinguish. The easiest way to talk about them is to talk about these restaurants where there are no lights and eat blind. I went to such a restaurant last month. I'm not sure if any of you know about them. Anyway, if you are interested, do look it up. In this restaurant, there is no difference between having your eyes open and looking at the back of your closed eyelids. It's pitch black. Now, I can imagine a scenery in my mind's eye, but it does not appear against my closed eyelid. Let's call that the imagination eye. It's like how you remember a dream or a memory. If you picture something in your mind, it's likely to be this. But, in the restaurant, I knew it was the perfect place to go further. So while my friends were talking, I would sometimes watch intently at the darkness. Much like Sageous' character in Oneironauticus, I was blessed with a dark room where my eyes were devoid of sensory information. And so, I looked for any image to spark. During the dinner, I succeeded three times in triggering images. The first time, I was privy to a show of a wild sea, waves flowing and ebbing. Waves crashing. Second, I watched abstract explosions. Things like that. These, I could vividly see with my open eyes. But they are also visualization (hallucinations maybe. I have less control but I was well aware I chose to see those things). And generally, this happens with your eyes closed and more likely around sleep. Let's call this the visualization eye. When I talk about visualization, I refer to both my imagination and visualization eyes. And both can be at play simultaneously. So, I wonder what Sivason has to say about these two eyes in terms of visualization.

Anyway, so here it goes: when I talk about shuffling cards or playing with the figurine, it's with my imagination eye/hand. When, I talk about first visuals, it's also about my imagination eye. But while the shuffling of cards is planned and voluntary, the first visuals is just the first thing that comes to mind. And I think there is a spectrum between the imagination and visual eye maybe, but definitely, when the dream begins, it's my visualization eye. I see things with my eyes, not just my mind. And today, during the DEILD attempt, the first visuals were imagination eye, and honestly, they were empty. I did not see guys, I just knew that's what I was imagining. Some people say they can't visualize, and it's because they need a vivid image. You just have to go with it. Sometimes, the imagination eye's image is invisible but you know what it is. Like, recall a memory. Maybe, there is not a clear image, but you know what you are recalling. So yeah, I knew I was imagining nondescript guys and I just went with it and then I started seeing with my visualization eye: everything was vividly clear.

When seeing with your imagination or visualization eyes, you can "imagine" the missing parts and just roll with it. For example, if in your dream, you are not wearing clothes, you can just imagine them and if you don't see them, that's fine. It's just part of the spectrum of imagination to visualization. In my DEILD, I was dissatisfied with the men I was seeing, but I should just have imagined one I wasn't seeing or imagined that one of them was the way I wanted it. Or that the one leaving was staying. Then, imagination becomes visualization. But it's often easier to trust what looks most vivid. But things aren't as they seem anyway.

- How long was it between the dream exit and dream re-entry. It felt like less than one minute, but it felt like my mind did a lot in that time.
- I don't recall swallowing but I can't guarantee I didn't move. I just don't remember that. I think I was not very aware of my body much. I was really in a space of thoughts as you wake up.

I hope I answered the questions without confusing you more!

Originally Posted by Occipitalred

So while my friends were talking, I would sometimes watch intently at the darkness. Much like Sageous' character in Oneironauticus, I was blessed with a dark room where my eyes were devoid of sensory information. And so, I looked for any image to spark. During the dinner, I succeeded three times in triggering images. The first time, I was privy to a show of a wild sea, waves flowing and ebbing. Waves crashing. Second, I watched abstract explosions. Things like that. These, I could vividly see with my open eyes. But they are also visualization (hallucinations maybe. I have less control but I was well aware I chose to see those things). And generally, this happens with your eyes closed and more likely around sleep.

Maybe sensory deprivation caused hallucinations? I read that complete darkness (+ silence ideally) can cause very vivid daydream-like open-eye hallucinations in 10-15 minutes. You restaurant wasn't quiet but the darkness still probably made your vizualizations easier.

For Princessflare, regarding swallowing: When I am truly relaxed, I never feel the need to swallow. If you do, simply swallow and don't think about it. But it is a sign of not being relaxed enough (but again, don't think about it this way, because thinking "oh no, I just needed to swallow, that's bad" would make you even less relaxed).

I had a DEILD or superquick WILD on Friday, very early at night, only an hour or hour and a half after falling asleep. I was feeling my husband touching me or hearing him talking to me, so I woke up and asked him, what was happening (assuming I was probably snoring). He said he didn't said anything and that I was confused. I realized I was dreaming it (probably, but it also could be a HH). I checked the time, rolled over, calmed my mind and entered the dream in something like 30 seconds. The timing made it super easy to go back to sleep.

Originally Posted by IndigoRose

Maybe sensory deprivation caused hallucinations? I read that complete darkness (+ silence ideally) can cause very vivid daydream-like open-eye hallucinations in 10-15 minutes. You restaurant wasn't quiet but the darkness still probably made your vizualizations easier.

For Princessflare, regarding swallowing: When I am truly relaxed, I never feel the need to swallow. If you do, simply swallow and don't think about it. But it is a sign of not being relaxed enough (but again, don't think about it this way, because thinking "oh no, I just needed to swallow, that's bad" would make you even less relaxed).

I had a DEILD or superquick WILD on Friday, very early at night, only an hour or hour and a half after falling asleep. I was feeling my husband touching me or hearing him talking to me, so I woke up and asked him, what was happening (assuming I was probably snoring). He said he didn't said anything and that I was confused. I realized I was dreaming it (probably, but it also could be a HH). I checked the time, rolled over, calmed my mind and entered the dream in something like 30 seconds. The timing made it super easy to go back to sleep.

i mean thrice now, i have come to a point while WILDing, where my heart starts racing, arms and legs get a weird tingly feel and i start feeling dizziness(?). and today i reached this stage in 20 minutes ( quickest time). during all these sensations, i'm really calm, and my breathing never gets fast, but then after 7-10 seconds, i automatically swallow(its literally a reflex), and then in 2 seconds the sensations subside. after i did swallow, i didn't pay it any mind either, and told myself that nothing has happened, but the sensations still stopped. i don't really know what to do from here. how do you relax yourself to such an extent that you dont notice the reflex??
while those sensations occur, should i keep waiting or should i imagine a tactile sensation?

thanks IndigoRose!!!

Originally Posted by Princessflare

i mean thrice now, i have come to a point while WILDing, where my heart starts racing, arms and legs get a weird tingly feel and i start feeling dizziness(?). and today i reached this stage in 20 minutes ( quickest time). during all these sensations, i'm really calm, and my breathing never gets fast, but then after 7-10 seconds, i automatically swallow(its literally a reflex), and then in 2 seconds the sensations subside. after i did swallow, i didn't pay it any mind either, and told myself that nothing has happened, but the sensations still stopped. i don't really know what to do from here. how do you relax yourself to such an extent that you dont notice the reflex??
while those sensations occur, should i keep waiting or should i imagine a tactile sensation?

thanks IndigoRose!!!

I simply don't have that reflex at that stage at all.
I had heart palpitations once, in my first attempt, and never again. Some increase in heartbeat happens, that's normal for the REM start, but I often don't even notice. I generally don't pay attention to my body with the exception of the kinesthetic hallucinations because I find them helpful but the rest is more distractive than helpful.
I used to have a big problem with the vibrations coming and then subsiding without anything happening. I even had a thread about it. For some time, my workaround around it was V-WILD. But these days, I don't need it. I used to "cheat" using only the intention as an anchor, basically shutting off my brain completely for a minute or less before the dream starts. Now, I can be more aware while it is happening without ruining it. It has taken a lot of practice and will need even more to get more reliable.

Im honestly not even sure my recall is all over the place and sometimes it takes me a while to realise i just had a dream and i have to be wide awake for that whereas this experience happens when i just wake up
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I have this too, the vibrations come and go and nothing happens past that and im not sure what to do