Thread: Stay in a dream for eternity!

I would choose it ONLY if shared dreaming is real. If I was all alone with mindless DCs and my own clever creations without another person to challenge me I would go mad.

I have had a dream that has lasted for at least a few months, maybe years.
And I can say that, if I was lucid, I would stay in a dream for a very long time.
Not eternity, but of course that's probably not possible atm anyway.

But a thousand years would not be something I'd be opposed to.
I see no reason to be scared of leaving RL. You're always gonna come back.

Originally Posted by tommo

I have had a dream that has lasted for at least a few months, maybe years.
And I can say that, if I was lucid, I would stay in a dream for a very long time.
Not eternity, but of course that's probably not possible atm anyway.

But a thousand years would not be something I'd be opposed to.
I see no reason to be scared of leaving RL. You're always gonna come back.

If you were to stay there for 1000+ years you would probably forget a great deal of info from the waking world. You would lose touch with waking reality and by the time you do wake up you would likely be a much different person. I doubt you could wake up from such an experience and just have things easily return to how they were before, like waking up from most dreams. Your body would still be the same and be there waiting for you but your mind would have gone through a lot.

I have felt as though I could reach such extremes but I am afraid to push it so far. I often look many steps ahead and I could tell that eventually I would likely either go COMPLETELY insane or grow tired of living. Or become an entirely different person. I am not yet ready to do any of those things.

Originally Posted by Mylynes

If you were to stay there for 1000+ years you would probably forget a great deal of info from the waking world. You would lose touch with waking reality

I don't see why this would be true. The dream would fade in memory more than waking life, most likely. And there's no reason you couldn't practice remembering the important things from waking life
while you're in the dream.

Originally Posted by Mylynes

and by the time you do wake up you would likely be a much different person. I doubt you could wake up from such an experience and just have things easily return to how they were before

Why would I want everything to return to normal?
That's not a benefit, in my mind.

That would be one of the best factors of the whole experience.

I would say no.

Dreams are frighteningly fun and at times mind blowing realistic, but everything is (arguably) fake. Its not there. The people are fake, everything you do is fake, everything you make will disappear because its all temporary and dependent on your attention.

And who is to say you will stay lucid? What if the dream is a nightmare?

Reality will always be superior to dreams. Anyone whoever crosses that line and wants to exist in the dream world needs help, or at least, a good talking to.

In saying that, if I was able to spend say, several hours a day in the dream world with full, un-compromised lucidity and vividness, and in reality only be asleep for five minutes, I'd probably indulge in that. In some sense I would be spending 100 years in the dream world, just not all at once.

Originally Posted by tommo

I don't see why this would be true. The dream would fade in memory more than waking life, most likely. And there's no reason you couldn't practice remembering the important things from waking life
while you're in the dream.

Simply because of how insanely long that it.. that is many normal lifetimes. Think about it, however old you are remove like 50-80% of your age and try to see how many things you can remember from when you were that age. And yea once you get back to the waking world a lot of your dream memories will likely fade away but still. After spending 1000+ years in a dream it will be your home for that time and after a few lifetimes a large portion of you memories whether you can consciously remember them will have been from the dream realm. You could try to hang on to memories from the waking world by holding on to them but 1000+ years is an INSANELY long amount of time to attempt to remember much.

Originally Posted by tommo

Why would I want everything to return to normal?
That's not a benefit, in my mind.

That would be one of the best factors of the whole experience.

By normal, I mean simply able to remember what you are returning to and what you should be doing here. After getting used to existing only in the dream world for so long it might not be a stretch to assume that you could still believe you are dreaming even after you wake up.

Simply imagine going away from everything you know for many lifetimes before finally returning. If you were to leave your family and say go to another country for even a measly 80 years before returning as an old man things would likely be VASTLY different. With a vacation into a dream your body and life that you return to will be the same as when you left it but don't you think that your mind and would be altered by such a long existence elsewhere?

Also, something strange I have noticed in my experimentation is that there seems to be a lot of memories stored on the other side(mostly of other dreams since that is where I have been the majority of my time). I can't remember many of these things when awake but whenever I go back to sleep many memories come flooding back to me. From there I have to focus and choose which things I want to attempt to remember and then write them down after I get back to the waking world to be safe, though simply mulling it over after I wake up can often be enough depending on the amount of info I am trying to bring back.



-Edit to avoid double post-

Originally Posted by Loaf

Dreams are frighteningly fun and at times mind blowing realistic, but everything is (arguably) fake. Its not there. The people are fake, everything you do is fake, everything you make will disappear because its all temporary and dependent on your attention.

What exactly do you mean by fake? Everyone in the waking world is also temporary so does that mean everyone in the waking world is fake? Even if you believe in life after death your experience on Earth will eventually come to an end.

Though both places are temporary, at least for me I have spent much more time in the dream realm already. I have the ability to exist for much longer in my dreams than I could in the waking world barring future tech somehow being able to make us physically immortal or near immortal or something similar which I doubt will happen any time soon. My existence in the waking world will be much shorter than my existence in the dream world.

Staying in a dream forever? 'Fraid not but as for what would happen...

You would probably get lost in a world you would create, unable to escape, so you begin to believe it must be the true world. Perhaps overtime this belief would take over and it would be as though you weren't dreaming at all. You would lose your belief in the dream world and all that it means. It would be like your normal life resumed as you slowly forgot you had unlimited capabilities, and limited YOURSELF to normalcy. Frigging deep bro...

Originally Posted by Mylynes

What exactly do you mean by fake? Everyone in the waking world is also temporary so does that mean everyone in the waking world is fake?

Are you seriously asking that. Really? Like, really?

Originally Posted by Loaf

Are you seriously asking that. Really? Like, really?

Yes I am. That is why I typed it into my reply after all. It isn't there just to look pretty or anything..

If you believe the dream world is "fake" just because the things there are temporary then I fail to see how the dream world differs from the waking world in this respect.

Originally Posted by Mylynes

Yes I am. That is why I typed it into my reply after all. It isn't there just to look pretty or anything..

If you believe the dream world is "fake" just because the things there are temporary then I fail to see how the dream world differs from the waking world in this respect.

I don't think this is the main reason he considers the dream world fake. I gather that he calls it fake because it does not appear to have the same stable complexity as the waking world.

In the waking world, regardless of attention, the world will always to adhere to certain sets of rules and will continue to grow in complexity (both predictably and unpredictably). The dream world doesn't seem to show this same behavior; the existence of the world seems dependent on attention, and the world cannot grow or change without your attention to feed it. It seems to only respond to your expectation of change, mimicking what you expect rather than organically shifting in time. The dream world also allows for the dreamer to directly change any detail he wants, regardless of its feasibility in the waking world. Then, there's also the matter of dream character complexity; are they just as complex as waking-life people? What goes on inside their heads, or do they simply mimic life?

I think these differences are what Loaf means when he says the dreamworld isn't "real". Not that it isn't perceived similarly to the waking world by the senses, but that its stability, independence, degree of immutability, and characters' complexities are all different than in waking life.

Originally Posted by Mylynes

If you believe the dream world is "fake" just because the things there are temporary then I fail to see how the dream world differs from the waking world in this respect.

No.

Content in the dream world is fake because its generated by your mind. Its imagined, it has no depth, it has no substance, and it has no stability. The moment your attention drifts from something, its effectively gone until you refocus on it.

I guess if you really need to argue the difference between the dream world and reality, you might want to seek help. Do I believe anyone has ever had a dream that feels as though it has gone on for years? No, I think its attention seeking nonsense.

Actually I was thinking about it just a couple of days ago. After all, I would rather have unexpected things happening to me, than for expected things to never happen.

But then, wouldn't it be sad that at the end of the day, all of these is virtual? I know it would feel real to your brain but all those experiences you had were never real, those people who treated you well in your dream are not real either. Real life isn't that bad actually, although it consists of bad times most of the times, but there were happy and exciting times for me too.

Oh and to add on, I couldn't believe the ache I would have if I'm going to lie on the bed for eternity!

Originally Posted by elucid

I find this very interesting, having the experience of doing so many fantastical things in a dream, if you were able to stay in a dream for eternity, with those fantastical abilities, would you choose your dream world or real life?

The thing is, I'm rather attached to my waking life (my "real" life), so as great as an eternal lucid dream would be, I would only like it if I could live out the rest of my waking life first. I cannot chose one over the other.
However, once I were in the dream, I might not feel the same about it as I do now. My dream life would feel like real life, and I would remember my waking life as just a dream...

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

I've never encountered something in the dream world that amazes me as much as the workings of the waking world, which are always out there to be discovered further, whereas the dream world must work with the knowledge it has (including subconscious, I'm not saying you can't figure out new things about your mind in your dreams).

I totally agree with you.

When amazing things happen in dreams, I would probably just go with the flow, and it didn't occurred to me for a moment how wonderful it was. But if an amazing thing happened to me in real life, just the thought and memory of it could last me for the rest of my life.

It's as though anything that happens in the dream world is all a possibility, anything is possible, literally, so nothing is out of your expectations. But in real life there are many factors to consider, simply just the responses of others is hard to predict.

Originally Posted by Loaf

I guess if you really need to argue the difference between the dream world and reality, you might want to seek help. Do I believe anyone has ever had a dream that feels as though it has gone on for years? No, I think its attention seeking nonsense.

Why would I need to seek help? Also, whether you believe me or not it IS possible to have dreams that feel as if they last for years. I know this because I have experienced it for myself.

Also, I could give 2 shits about attention. In the waking world I am anti-social and live almost every day alone in my room avoiding attention from the outside world. On this forum I am just an anonymous person behind an avatar, but my reason for being here is primarily to learn and also to share with those who might want to hear what I have to say.

But anyways, this conversation is pointless as you do not believe me. I am just an attention-seeking liar to you and nothing I could say would change that.

Originally Posted by Loaf

No.

Content in the dream world is fake because its generated by your mind. Its imagined, it has no depth, it has no substance, and it has no stability. The moment your attention drifts from something, its effectively gone until you refocus on it.

All true. In the normal cycle of wake/sleeping life.

But the OP here is about staying in a dream for an eternity/forever (two different things, BTW*). Forever can be a very long time. So isn't it possible that, as the centuries pass, the quality of your dreaming creation would improve and likely sharpen its focus to a point where everything you create has depth and stays put, even after you look away? Wouldn't you in time establish a "reality," based on your dreaming mind's concept of how things should be (and yes Carrot, that would mean that your dream reality would include "amazing things," to some limited, expectation-oriented degree -- though you'd still be amazed). That seems likely to me; it also seems a bit ominous, since as your focus tightens you may find yourself eternally stuck in a world that is both of your creation (because you're in a dream), but not of your creation, because it must follow the set of "rules" you inadvertently erected over countless years of habitual existence. And trust me, if you maintain your waking-life psyche in the dream, habits will ensue -- you might have lots of adventures and meet/conjure interesting people, but in the end you really just want to rest easy on a comfy couch somewhere familiar; after all, dream or no you're still only human.

Of course, that's if you maintain your waking-life psyche; which all the posts here imply is the case. But what if you could change your psyche, and transcend your waking-life human existence, personae, expectations, etc? After all, you don't need any of that crap any more, why not leave it behind, and build yourself a new soul, one meant to thrive in an eternity of limitless creation, exploration, and growth?

In other words, Loaf (and others), if you are in this dream for eternity, the content might be able to transcend "fake." This is especially true if all the dream-sharers are right, and there is an as yet unknown set of physics that allows you to communicate with others beyond the realm of your dream...I would assume that an eternity of practice would make you pretty good at tapping these as yet unknown energies. Then you could step outside the dream and visit others...perhaps even teach them your eternal dreaming ways. Seriously, though, forever is a helluva long time, and you'd think someone with their wits about them (and a powerful sense of self) could work limitless time into limitless possibility, and limitless result.

I think some here already mentioned that all of this sounds more like the afterlife than a dream, but to that I have to ask: so what? Maybe the afterlife is like an eternal dream and maybe if we develop an excellent understanding of the concept now, we'll be more ready to "adjust up" to it when the time comes.


* Forever = an endless progression of linear time; in both directions, yes, but time is still linear, recognized, and experienced.
Eternity = existence outside of time, or rather existence with no need for time as a measure of that existence (which also hints that an eternity in a dream is possible, because an eternal being can see forever pass in the wink of a physical world eye).

Originally Posted by Mylynes

Why would I need to seek help? Also, whether you believe me or not it IS possible to have dreams that feel as if they last for years. I know this because I have experienced it for myself.

Also, I could give 2 shits about attention. In the waking world I am anti-social and live almost every day alone in my room avoiding attention from the outside world. On this forum I am just an anonymous person behind an avatar, but my reason for being here is primarily to learn and also to share with those who might want to hear what I have to say.

But anyways, this conversation is pointless as you do not believe me. I am just an attention-seeking liar to you and nothing I could say would change that.

I understand the life of an antisocial. I used to be one, and I used school work to numb myself from everything else. And computer games to forget about troubles. I have nothing against you liking to be in your dream world. But you need to understand whether do you really like dreaming or it's another form of "escaping". Because computer games were my form of "escaping" when I was an antisocial and I thought how great the virtual world is. I still enjoy them though, but I only play those that are worth my time, not pointlessly getting addicted to it.

The breakthrough of my life came when I had a change of school, a whole new environment and I plucked up the courage to meet my first friend. Things were going fine ever since then except for the workload part.

But I do think the idea of the dream world as another world of itself is great. But instead of being in a dream world for eternity, I am more interested in a parallel universe. As what Sabre2552 had said, dream world is reliant on our attention whereas the Earth in the real world will rotate regardless what happens.

Originally Posted by Sageous

So isn't it possible that, as the centuries pass, the quality of your dreaming creation would improve and likely sharpen its focus to a point where everything you create has depth and stays put, even after you look away?

Nope. That isn't how dreams work.

I'm sorry but neither of you have done anything but ramble on about this silly fantasy, and made up facts to suit theories. What exactly is this topic about? Questioning whether it is possible? Or just parading around like nutjobs spewing out nonsense and trying to convince each other it is real?

I'm out since you can't even clear the line between reality and dreams. I'm cringing at some of the content posted here.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Nope. That isn't how dreams work.

I'm sorry but neither of you have done anything but ramble on about this silly fantasy, and made up facts to suit theories. What exactly is this topic about? Questioning whether it is possible? Or just parading around like nutjobs spewing out nonsense and trying to convince each other it is real?

I'm out since you can't even clear the line between reality and dreams. I'm cringing at some of the content posted here.

Wow.

Sorry you're "out," Loaf, and more sorry that my post was apparently too rambling for you to bother to actually read. That happens, I understand. What's amazing is that you still felt qualified to speak down at me, even though you had no idea what I said. Did you even read the first line of my post, where I plainly agreed with you by noting that everything you said was "all true?" No? Sad.

Had you read what I wrote, you would have noticed that I was considering potentials and drawbacks about an eternity spent in a dream, assuming for the moment that doing so was possible. I was more interested in exploring the philosophy and esoteric mechanics underlying that "silly fantasy" than in discussing whether eternity can be spent in a dream or not -- why bother doing that, since it is a question that cannot truly be answered by any of us (though I do agree that science, philosophy, and reality as we know it all guarantee that it cannot happen)? In fact, I was hoping to lure this thread away from just another "Is not"-"Is too" exchange, and see if people want to talk about something interesting. In your race to call me a nutjob, I guess you missed all that; too bad.

I guess you also missed that I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything -- from where you got that, I haven't a clue; do you?

Finally, for what it's worth, I really don't need you to tell me how dreams work -- and, given that I grounded my post specifically in how dreams work, you might want to ask yourself if you understand the concept yourself; or, again, actually read posts before dismissing them as nonsense spewed by nutjobs. That kind of arrogance, in the end, just makes you look silly.

Now that I think about it, I guess you won't be reading this post either, since you're "off." Hell, you probably wouldn't have read it anyway, but would still have responded knowingly, huh? That's still kind of sad. I'll put it up anyway, just for closure.

Hopefully this thread hasn't been totally derailed by this.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Nope. That isn't how dreams work.

I'm sorry but neither of you have done anything but ramble on about this silly fantasy, and made up facts to suit theories.

How is it possible that you can outright say that is not how dreams work? Science is far from knowing anywhere near everything about dreaming, and DreamViews to me is the closest thing we have to a collaborative approach to developing theories and trying to understand more about dreaming.

I know I've experienced dreams which push past the limits of what I can think or understand when I'm awake. I've also briefly tried experimenting with extending the time of a lucid dream and I can say it helped the dream 'last' a lot longer than usual. I'm sure if I experimented with it more I'd be able to reach even longer periods of time, and I plan to in the future.

In terms of the depth of the dream and the content being 'fake' I guess that really depends on your perception of the dreams. As Sageous said most people only know their normal 'human' range of wants, needs and ideas. If you can speculate (take this word seriously, I'm asking you to only think for a moment) and step outside these boundaries to think about what you could change about yourself given an infinite amount of time, it becomes a lot easier to try and wrap your head around how much opportunity is there if you were to try.

I see no benefit in simply saying 'nope' as you tend to do to anyone who speaks of their experiences in Beyond Dreaming. Personally I think it's rude and offensive when you offer no real debate other than simply denying other people's claims or hypothesis.

Originally Posted by Dark_Merlin

How is it possible that you can outright say that is not how dreams work? Science is far from knowing anywhere near everything about dreaming, and DreamViews to me is the closest thing we have to a collaborative approach to developing theories and trying to understand more about dreaming.

We understand enough to know that. Prove me wrong. Dreams do not evolve. You are all beyond deluded.

Sigh.

Originally Posted by Loaf

We understand enough to know that. Prove me wrong. Dreams do not evolve. You are all beyond deluded.

Since I at least have indicated that proving in either direction in this is impossible, how about you prove yourself right, Loaf, and do so without saying "Because I said so?" When someone interested in LD'ing says that "Dreams do not evolve," I have to wonder if you even have a grasp on what LD'ing actually is. After all, isn't LD'ing an evolution of a sort in itself?

Since you have chosen to ignore what we're discussing here, context and all, should we really feel hurt by your "deluded" invective? I for one don't think so.

It's really annoying, Loaf, that you're allowing your obviously uninformed righteousness to destroy this thread. "Off" might be a good place for you to be if you continue to refuse to read the posts while still assuming, bizarrely, the right to call us deluded.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Nope. That isn't how dreams work.

I'm sorry but neither of you have done anything but ramble on about this silly fantasy, and made up facts to suit theories. What exactly is this topic about? Questioning whether it is possible? Or just parading around like nutjobs spewing out nonsense and trying to convince each other it is real?

I'm out since you can't even clear the line between reality and dreams. I'm cringing at some of the content posted here.

Originally Posted by Loaf

We understand enough to know that. Prove me wrong. Dreams do not evolve. You are all beyond deluded.

I'm not going to try to change your mind about the ability to extend dreams but I just wanted to say that many people truely believe that simply having lucid dreams is impossible and all complete nonsense. If you close your mind to new ideas you will only be limiting yourself and what you are capable of. Many things which I originally believed impossible or at least too difficult to attempt I was eventually able to do within my dreams.

Do as you will, in the end none of it really matters anyways.

And don't feel obligated to stick around in the thread if you do not want to.

IMO, even if you believe dreams are entirely made up by your own mind (which is a valid pov), I wouldn't go so far as to say they're fake. That would make them as "fake" as every other thought, feeling, sensation and perception you've ever had.