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    Thread: Shared Dreaming, Fake and Real Shared Dreams.

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      Lightbulb Shared Dreaming, Fake and Real Shared Dreams.

      You all know that I am all into Beyond Dreaming stuff and I always try to be open minded. I believe to promote Lucid Dreaming and to advance our self in its capabilities we need to stop lying to our self. We need to look for facts, patterns of what seems to be coincidence, proofs and so on. Add to consideration anything that is suggested or proven by science, gather experience from all over the community and try to achieve something new, something that nobody has ever achieved yet.

      There are a lot of experienced lucid dreamers on this community, I am sure you will understand me.

      Fake Nightmare Shared Dreams and Why They Work?
      I found several threads where people claim that they can invade others dreams and give them nightmares.
      You all know how control of our dream works, our inner intentions and expectations are doing all the work. When those guys are offering you to get a nightmare, they ask you "what are you greatest fears?". You tell them your fears, at the same time you already image how would it look like, to make it even more intense, they will tell you their version of how it would look like. Intentionally or unintentionally you will think of it, you will imagine how would it look like. So you basically program you self to have a nightmare.
      That's not all, when you go to sleep, somewhere deep inside you expect this to happen, even you you are a total disbeliever you will keep a slightest possibility that it might be true. It gets even worse when you are a believer, you fear of what will happen with you during next sleep, what you do is you create pure intention to get exactly that nightmare that you asked for or that nightmare that you'v been told about. Take SP as an example, you can see how powerful is fear and what kind of intentions it does create. Fear is something very hard to control, you might not realize it but you create a powerful intention by simply being scared of something. Inexperienced lucid dreamers get scared of a SP phenomena and by that they are bringing their biggest fear into life.
      Then you see people getting nightmares and saying 'Woooah! He invaded my dreams and it was so scary' and so on... They do not understand what brought that nightmare and they think it was a shared dream. Why shared? Because you expected those people to give you a nightmare and intentionally or unintentionally you believe they did it.
      If you come to a point where you get this nightmare and get very scared you will loose all control of your dream. Advanced lucid dreamers know this feeling, I believe everybody lost control of their dreams due to fear when they were new to lucid dreaming. In this cases you will be even more convinced that somebody invaded your dream.


      Fake Shared Dream With a Person You Know
      Boundary between real shared dream and fake shared dream might be very small here.
      When two people who know each other, try to get a shared dream they might get it, but is it really a shared dream? In most cases no. Two people who know each other, often participate in similar conversations, they participate in same events and share some beliefs. If they don't know about shared dreaming, most probably they will simply consider it as another dream where they saw their friend. But give the a little idea of having a shared dream between each other and every time both of them dream of each other, they will consider it a shared dream, or a possibility of shared dream. Sometimes even conversations might match, because they used to talk to each other a lot. Often they do not recall complete text of conversations, when they start talking about it in real life, their mind fills the missing gaps with what they wish it to be. So in reality what many people consider a shared dream is simply a normal lucid dream about each other, dreaming of dream version of your friend.
      I am talking about it from my experience and from experienced that I got in this community. I had a friend who was lucid dreamer too, both of us were lucid dreaming almost every night. At that time we already were pretty advanced and we often tried to have a shared dream. In the beginning it seems awesome, we thought it was that easy and we got so many shared dreams! But later we tried to prove that and failed all our attempts to do so. We had a plan to remember as many small details as possible, by comparing details we can know if it could the same dream. In every shared dream we found differences in some details, different hair styles, different color of clothes, different voices, different behavior, different details of decorations around us. We also tried to exchange information, we failed all attempts to do so as well.
      I know you guys believe that numbers and text are hard to read, but don't you think that it might be a bias to think so. Both me and my friend learned lucid dreaming on our own, we got the idea of how to do it and that was it, the rest we learned our self. We did not have any prejudice thinking about problems with text or number so we never had those problems in our lucid dreams. I know sometimes it is hard to remember the exact text because our mind is thinking different in dreams, you can always wake up and repeat that word or a phrase couple of times in order to remember it exactly how it was. I believe that the reason why the majority of people believe that text and numbers are hard or impossible to read is that because it was mentioned in few famous books about lucid dreaming and then this belief transferred to most communities. Look at beliefs in Russian community, dreamhackers. Most of them read the same Russian books about lucid dreaming and they all believe that they dream in the same location, they all have some labyrinths, gates and levels and same monsters there, they do not even understand that they can create their realms and so on. That looks funny to us right? But they are sure that it is the only right version. I guess I went little out of topic.


      What is Real Shared Dream and How Can We Prove One
      This questions always stays open for me, I would suggest some kind of data exchange like text and numbers, or maybe replace it with something more symbolic?
      Remembering small details and then sharing them to each other, but not with the way of chatting, we need to develop some way to exchange information at the same time. For example if two users suspect that they might had a shared dream, they could send each other a detailed descriptions of what they saw, what happened, how they looked, colors, sizes of objects around them, any possible details. If they could send those details to each other at the same time, they would not be able to complete the missing gaps with what their mind with what they want to.
      I would suggest some kind of online room, where they come, write their text and then 3rd party member unlocks both descriptions for each other at the same time.





      Shared Dreaming, Fake and Real Shared Dreams - Part 2


      Lately my opinion on Shared Dreaming was split in two. I feel like I have to go both ways at once, picking one path only, would be close minded in my opinion. Will see which one will bring more results, then I can decide what is the right way to go.

      1st way
      Shared dreaming that we'v been talking about in this thread. Two people who have some kind of connection, most probably better to have some emotional connection. Trying to meet in some location, would it be a place familiar and close to both dreamers, or it could be just a point on the map, some coordinates and photos attached. Looking for some scenario sync's in dreams, looking for some symbolical sync's, finding some logic. Probably exchanging some data like passwords or numbers. Moving forward step by step until we reach some good success.

      2nd way
      Random Shared Dream or simply 'RSD'. This idea mostly came up to me due to my experience in SDing. Both of my what I consider genuine Shared Dreams happened with an unknown random person. Everything what happened in my life before and after could be coincidence, could be and most probably is the same 'fake shared dream with a person you know' that I was talking about.

      My first Shared Dream:
      I did not write a single DJ in first 5 years of lucid dreaming, this was my first posted dream on the web. It was my The Final Dream | flow of my soul
      At that time I was still shocked of this dream, this was the dream that made me to decide to quit lucid dreaming at that time.
      I first posted it around 1 year ago on some forum that was not even connected to lucid dreaming. After few days, one girl pm'ed me and said that she had exactly the same dream at around the same time. I did not know her at all, at that time I did not know anything about her. At first I thought it might be just another similar dream, but it wasn't. I asked her to share some details, and what she wrote was amazing.
      This RSD had everything to prove for me that Shared Dreaming does exist. What she wrote were small details that I never mentioned to anybody, she described the same objects in room, their size and color. She described the same smell. Both symbolical and emotional syns's were here. She felt exactly the same I did, she had very similar thoughts on what was happening there. She knew all details that I did not post in that topic. It was like another 'me' telling me the same story. She had little bit different interpretation of few things, but those were really small thoughts. And it was impossible to get more sync's that I got in that one single LD.

      My second Shared Dream:
      This will sound weird to you, but I do not have a single proof or sync about this dream. It is one sided experience, unless the second party will ever find and contact me. The reason why I believe it was a Shared Dream are simply my feelings, my intuition and my experience in lucid dreaming. Here it is - Random Shared Dream | flow of my soul
      I am very advanced in my dream control, and I usually know why and where things happen. I know when they should not happen, in 6 years I got enough experience in Lucid Dreaming, taking the fact that I LD almost every night and all dreams are lucid.
      All DC's are usually like NPC's in games, some of them seems to be active, but I always see some robotness in them. There are unique DC's, but still they do not behave just like humans do. What happened in this dream was out of order. Girl in this RSD was behaving on her own, noting affected her. None of my thoughts or intentions could control her. I have one of my spells that I call "clearness" this is when I do not like something in my dream, or I am not sure and I simply use 'clearness' and every single DC in my dream disappears. When I saw her doing the same thing, I was very surprised. I could never think that one of my DC's would use that kind of trick. When she did that 'clearness' spell of her own, I was pretty sure she is not one of my DC's and this is something different, maybe another LDer. When she took my hand and we walked through the door and appeared in another place, I was also shocked, because she did it fully intentionally, she knew where we are going and what for. Also I knew that she did not expect me to control her dream, she was very surprised when I teleported us back to the hotel.



      How Can We Recognize a Shared Dream?
      I believe this is one of the main questions that we have to answer in order to succeed in Shared Dreaming.
      Think for a second, we might be missing Shared Dreams every second night. Both Shared Dreams with people you know, people you want to dream with or just Random Shared Dreams with people you never saw or heard of. Other dreamers might be somewhere really close to us, they might be one of our DC's, they could be one of our Dream Guides, they could be somewhere near us but we do not pay attention to them or we fail to recognize that they are unique. We might be missing so many opportunities to meet some random people in our dreams, both lucid and non-lucid and invite them here to DV or simply give them idea of our nickname.

      Shared Dream Check(SDC) and All Night Awareness(ANA)
      So how can we recognize a shared dream, how can we recognize another dreamers?
      First of all we have to understand that we will be looking for both, Lucid Dreamers and Non-Lucid Dreamers, they would behave completely different. I think we can develop a habit similar to that one that we developed when we achieved our first lucid dream, the old-school reality checks and reminders, as well as the ADA of meeting other dreamers. This might sound complicated, but I believe it is possible and only looks complicated for the first time. When we were not lucid, we also thought that lucid dreaming is complicated, but when we learned how to do it, it does not look that complicated anymore.
      So, can we develop a habit of seeing strange patterns in behavior of all DC's?
      Can we develop a habit of seeing strange patterns in behavior of our dream world and see or feel the difference when our dream world changes in some weird way, that might be unintentionally or intentionally controlled by other dreamers?
      Just like you did you first unintentional reality check inside your dream that made you lucid, we can develop a state of awareness of other dreamers inside our dream that will someday trigger that Shared Dream Check tool. Just like we became lucid, we can become aware of other dreamers inside our dreams.
      I think this will be too much to mix both, awareness of reality and awareness of presence of other dreamers in waking life. We should develop All Night Awareness, that would be focused on finding strange behavior of DC's and strange behavior or changes in Dream World. Combined with Shared Dream Check, we can learn to recognize other people(dreamers) in our dreams. Shared Dream Check should be done in Lucid Dreams, might be even done in Non-Lucid's as both, way to become lucid and way to recognize a shared dream. This is like second level of awareness.
      Last edited by Scionox; 11-21-2013 at 11:37 AM. Reason: Edited by OP's request

    2. #2
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      There was a simple dream remote viewing laboratory held for 35 consecutive targets by one host. Followed by 48 consecutive tatgets by a second host. And unexpected phenomena happened. There were one or two targets a week about 2 years (2008/9).

      During this long, long experiment there was unintentional shared dreaming. Folk would post their dreams. Then when the target was revealed most folk had missed the target but quite shockingly had jumped into an other participants dream.

      Also

      Even more shocking folk would non intentionally dream of the host's or another participants real waking life (sometime precognitively)

      This didn't happen straight away. It happened to folk who kept participating target after target and bust after bust (miss after miss).

      I recon the secret was "participation" in trying to dream, target after target.

      The dreaming mind takes time to get the message of what the dreamer wants it to do.

      I remember seeing a science program where a baby was put in a high chair and a babies bottle (of milk) was placed in front of the baby.

      The baby's brain ran program after program in an effort to get the bottle. The brain even made a leg shoot out. Now we know that was stupid but a brain don't know till it tries (runs the program).

      It is the same with shared dreaming. The brain needs the opportunity to have lots and lots of practice and never give up (no matter how embarrassing the "busts" ie misses)

      I am hoping to get someone here on DV to host a twice weekly dream remote viewing laboratory. And keep it up till the next 2 week (online) Psi-dreaming Conference that begins in September 2014.

      I can send a "list" of 100 or more very small targets that can fit into a small ice cream tub. If any one wants to host but can't think up targets.
      Last edited by gab; 07-11-2015 at 11:48 PM. Reason: removed user name
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      What do you mean by targets?
      Last edited by TehDalek; 11-18-2013 at 02:43 AM.
      I have become quite interested on the layers of lucidity, and I use them to measure how lucid a dream is. For more information on these layers, click here.

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      Quote Originally Posted by TehDalek View Post
      What do you mean by targets?
      Hey TehDalek

      I just "friended" you and read your reply in the tread

      ***

      http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...ml#post2061414

      ***

      Yesterday in Post 115 Waking Nomad bumped up the thread that was quiet since February with this post

      ***

      Hi everyone.

      I haven't checked this thread in quite sometime. I am bumping it due to Alter apparently accidentally giving a woman a long drawn out horrible night terror.

      I think he might be better at doing this than me, because he was able to tell her to come to DV, and gave the usernames of himself, Mylynes, me, and also a password.

      So, I am going to pass the baton to Alter. He can't get on the internet, but I am communicating with him, so I can pass the word on to him.*

      Nicronmo, you may be covered in centipedes tied down to a stone altar being choked by a demon. Be forewarned,

      Alter is The Devil's little brother.
      Then user5659 posted:

      WakingNomad... and anybody else who does shared dreaming.

      Please give me a nightmare, come to my dream and try to do something.

      You can even come all together.

      I think the only fear I have is not to wake up from a lucid dream. Travel too far and be lost somewhere deep inside other realities.

      If you need I can send you my photo, I can even come to a given location.From my side I promise to give a honest answer of whatever happened to me.

      All my dreams are lucid, and I usually recall most of my dreams, so it should be easy for you.

      Also I will be having info with me, a 3 digit number that I will share with you if we will meet.

      The same number is written on the first page of the notebook that is on my desktop. Would be cool if you can get that info too.
      Then you wrote in post 117

      My recall is not the best, I recall about 2 dreams a night on average. I have lucids somewhat often.

      I kinda want to do this, but I don't know if I love the idea of getting a nightmare in order to initiate a shared lucid.*

      But since ailita got me so pumped up, I want to take the challenge like flow.

      My main fear is bees. I may have others that I am not even aware of, but I have never really asked my subconscious. The other big fear is freefalling. If I look over a tall building, it is not the height that scares me, it is the anticipation that I may freefall.

      I don't care what happens in the dream, but I really want to experience shared dreaming first hand. If any of you guys have the time, I am ready. If you need any more information, just let me know.
      Then Mylynes replied post 118

      ***

      Very very interesting.

      Almost makes me want to return.. Almost.

      13 Confirmed SDs in my email which is strictly given out in dreams.Unfortunately all random, the techniques are still being refined.Will be seeing you all on the dream plane sooner or later.Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

      ***

      Nick Newport did 35*Dream Remote Viewing Experiment Threads. He began on the 2-July- 2004. He put an object in a cardboard box. Here are his first 10 objects (targets)

      1st*(Black WIRE STRIPPERS )
      6 participants

      *2nd*(Metal Bookend)
      17 pacipitants

      3rd*(Metal scourer)

      *4th*(An 8" section of plastic drain pipe)

      *5th*(My white baseball cap!)

      6th*(A wooden drumstick!)

      7th*(A square piece of packing foam)

      8th*(A section of rain gutter)*

      *9th*(A dumbell)

      10th*(A butter knife)*
      Last edited by gab; 07-11-2015 at 11:55 PM. Reason: changed username
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      Before I begin I just want to say I have no belief in Shared Dreaming, Astral projection or Spirit Entities. I just came here to offer advice.

      The way you describe how to test shared dreaming is a fair test, however I do not believe it is valid. The main fundamental problem I see is that every person has a unique way of interpreting the world around them. To explain what I mean, just imagine a school yard fight. There are ten kids who witnessed the fight. Now, ask each of the ten kids what happened in the fight. You will get ten general versions of how the fight that happened, however if you start drilling the kids, the small details will falter. Does that mean each kid didn't see the same fight? No it doesn't, its just each Kid will interpret the world around them differently. Now apply to this to a shared dream, where we aren't even perceiving what is going on through our physical senses, so the small details are just going to get worse.

      The way around this problem would be to an create an abstract short story to tell within the dream, with say three or five central points to the story. That way small details will be lost, but the big picture will remain the same. So your story might be about a rabbit who is being chased by a fox, and the rabbit escapes by flying away onto the moon. So in the shared dream when you meet the other dreamer, you would create the story in the dream for the other person to watch. When the other person awakes, they may recall a mouse being chased by a cat, and the mouse escapes by flying to Mars. While the small details have been lost, the bigger picture still remains, confirming in a sense the shared dream.
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      I'm just a mere human

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      Quote Originally Posted by havago View Post
      User5659

      There was a simple dream remote viewing laboratory held for 35 consecutive targets by one host. Followed by 48 consecutive tatgets by a second host. And unexpected phenomena happened. There were one or two targets a week about 2 years (2008/9).

      During this long, long experiment there was unintentional shared dreaming. Folk would post their dreams. Then when the target was revealed most folk had missed the target but quite shockingly had jumped into an other participants dream.

      Also

      Even more shocking folk would non intentionally dream of the host's or another participants real waking life (sometime precognitively)

      This didn't happen straight away. It happened to folk who kept participating target after target and bust after bust (miss after miss).

      I recon the secret was "participation" in trying to dream, target after target.

      The dreaming mind takes time to get the message of what the dreamer wants it to do.

      I remember seeing a science program where a baby was put in a high chair and a babies bottle (of milk) was placed in front of the baby.

      The baby's brain ran program after program in an effort to get the bottle. The brain even made a leg shoot out. Now we know that was stupid but a brain don't know till it tries (runs the program).

      It is the same with shared dreaming. The brain needs the opportunity to have lots and lots of practice and never give up (no matter how embarrassing the "busts" ie misses)

      I am hoping to get someone here on DV to host a twice weekly dream remote viewing laboratory. And keep it up till the next 2 week (online) Psi-dreaming Conference that begins in September 2014.

      I can send a "list" of 100 or more very small targets that can fit into a small ice cream tub. If any one wants to host but can't think up targets.

      Thanks for your great reply. If what you are saying is true, then I have tons of information to think of now.

      Even without participating in this event, we can already find lots of clues and mistakes in our previous thinking.


      To participate in this experiment, all I need to do is to get a box, put something inside and keep it in my house? If so, I am more then happy to go for it. Can you tell me more details about this experiment?
      Are we going to have several host's at the moment or is it going to be only 1 host vs many targets?
      Are we going to post our photos, location? Coordinates ?
      Who knows about the item in the box? host and you?
      How are we going to gather information, we will have a group chat? or simply by forum?
      Last edited by gab; 07-11-2015 at 11:55 PM. Reason: changed username

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      Quote Originally Posted by havago View Post
      Hey TehDalek

      I just "friended" you and read your reply in the tread
      Why did you quote so much of that thread? Sorry I'm a bit confused.

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      Quote Originally Posted by DogRobinson View Post
      Why did you quote so much of that thread? Sorry I'm a bit confused.
      I am not, there is a story behind it.

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      I read the thread last night. I'm just confused as to why Havago is quoting so much of it (or quoting it at all) before answering Dalek's question.
      What do you mean by targets?

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      Quote Originally Posted by DogRobinson View Post
      I read the thread last night. I'm just confused as to why Havago is quoting so much of it (or quoting it at all) before answering Dalek's question.
      I guess havago did not understand the question. Maybe he pm'ed him and they sorted it out

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      Thanks, I find this topic fascinating and just didn't want to miss a beat.

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      Quote Originally Posted by DogRobinson View Post
      Thanks, I find this topic fascinating and just didn't want to miss a beat.
      Glad you like it I will find some time and write part two soon.

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      ... (...)..

      Fake Shared Dream With a Person You Know

      Boundary between real shared dream and fake shared dream might be very small here.

      When two people who know each other, try to get a shared dream they might get it, but is it really a shared dream? In most cases no.

      Two people who know each other, often participate in similar conversations, they participate in same events and share some beliefs. If they don't know about shared dreaming, most probably they will simply consider it as another dream where they saw their friend. But give the little idea of having a shared dream between each other and every time both of them dream of each other, they will consider it a shared dream, or a possibility of shared dream.

      Sometimes even conversations might match, because they used to talk to each other a lot. Often they do not recall complete text of conversations, when they start talking about it in real life, [utheir mind fills the missing gaps[/u with what they wish it to be. So in reality what many people consider a shared dream is simply a normal lucid dream about each other, dreaming of dream version of your friend.

      I am talking about it from my experience and from experienced that I got in this community.

      I had a friend who was lucid dreamer too, both of us were lucid dreaming almost every night.

      At that time we already were pretty advanced and we often tried to have a shared dream. In the beginning it seems awesome, we thought it was that easy and we got so many shared dreams!

      But later we tried to prove that and failed all our attempts to do so.

      We had a plan to remember as many small details as possible, by comparing details we can know if it could the same dream. In every shared dream we found differences in some details,:

      different hair styles,
      different color of clothes,
      different voices,
      different behavior,
      different details of decorations around us.

      We also tried to exchange information, we failed all attempts to do so as well.*

      I know you guys believe that numbers and text are hard to read, but don't you think that it might be a bias to think so

      . Both me and my friend learned lucid dreaming on our own, we got the idea of how to do it and that was it, the rest we learned our self.

      We did not have any prejudice thinking about problems with text or number so we never had those problems in our lucid dreams.

      I know sometimes it is hard to remember the exact text because our mind is thinking different in dreams, you can always wake up and repeat that word or a phrase couple of times in order to remember it exactly how it was. I believe that the reason why the majority of people believe that text and numbers are hard or impossible to read is that because it was mentioned in few famous books about lucid dreaming and then this belief transferred to most communities.

      Look at beliefs in Russian community, dreamhackers.

      Most of them read the same Russian books about lucid dreaming and they all believe that they dream in the same location, they all have some labyrinths, gates and levels and same monsters there, they do not even understand that they can create their realms and so on.

      That looks funny to us right?

      But they are sure that it is the only right version.

      I guess I went little out of topic.

      What is Real Shared Dream and How Can We Prove One

      This questions always stays open for me, I would suggest some kind of data exchange like text and numbers, or maybe replace it with something more symbolic?*Remembering small details and then sharing them to each other, but not with the way of chatting, we need to develop some way to exchange information at the same time.

      For example:

      if two users suspect that they might had a shared dream, they could send each other a detailed descriptions of what they saw,

      what happened,
      how they looked,
      colors,
      sizes of objects around them,
      any possible details.

      If they could send those details to each other at the same time, they would not be able to complete the missing gaps with what their mind with what they want to.

      I would suggest some kind of online room, where they come, write their text and then 3rd party member unlocks both descriptions for each other at the same time.
      Very scientific user5659

      I think you would really enjoy 86 year old, rvdc's work:

      ***

      http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...-thoughts.html


      ***(94 replies /2, 452 views, now)
      Last edited by gab; 07-11-2015 at 11:56 PM.

    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by user5659 View Post
      Fake Shared Dream With a Person You Know
      Boundary between real shared dream and fake shared dream might be very small here.
      When two people who know each other, try to get a shared dream they might get it, but is it really a shared dream? In most cases no. Two people who know each other, often participate in similar conversations, they participate in same events and share some beliefs. If they don't know about shared dreaming, most probably they will simply consider it as another dream where they saw their friend. But give the a little idea of having a shared dream between each other and every time both of them dream of each other, they will consider it a shared dream, or a possibility of shared dream. Sometimes even conversations might match, because they used to talk to each other a lot. Often they do not recall complete text of conversations, when they start talking about it in real life, their mind fills the missing gaps with what they wish it to be. So in reality what many people consider a shared dream is simply a normal lucid dream about each other, dreaming of dream version of your friend.
      I am talking about it from my experience and from experienced that I got in this community. I had a friend who was lucid dreamer too, both of us were lucid dreaming almost every night. At that time we already were pretty advanced and we often tried to have a shared dream. In the beginning it seems awesome, we thought it was that easy and we got so many shared dreams! But later we tried to prove that and failed all our attempts to do so. We had a plan to remember as many small details as possible, by comparing details we can know if it could the same dream. In every shared dream we found differences in some details, different hair styles, different color of clothes, different voices, different behavior, different details of decorations around us. We also tried to exchange information, we failed all attempts to do so as well.
      I know you guys believe that numbers and text are hard to read, but don't you think that it might be a bias to think so. Both me and my friend learned lucid dreaming on our own, we got the idea of how to do it and that was it, the rest we learned our self. We did not have any prejudice thinking about problems with text or number so we never had those problems in our lucid dreams. I know sometimes it is hard to remember the exact text because our mind is thinking different in dreams, you can always wake up and repeat that word or a phrase couple of times in order to remember it exactly how it was. I believe that the reason why the majority of people believe that text and numbers are hard or impossible to read is that because it was mentioned in few famous books about lucid dreaming and then this belief transferred to most communities. Look at beliefs in Russian community, dreamhackers. Most of them read the same Russian books about lucid dreaming and they all believe that they dream in the same location, they all have some labyrinths, gates and levels and same monsters there, they do not even understand that they can create their realms and so on. That looks funny to us right? But they are sure that it is the only right version. I guess I went little out of topic.


      What is Real Shared Dream and How Can We Prove One
      This questions always stays open for me, I would suggest some kind of data exchange like text and numbers, or maybe replace it with something more symbolic?
      Remembering small details and then sharing them to each other, but not with the way of chatting, we need to develop some way to exchange information at the same time. For example if two users suspect that they might had a shared dream, they could send each other a detailed descriptions of what they saw, what happened, how they looked, colors, sizes of objects around them, any possible details. If they could send those details to each other at the same time, they would not be able to complete the missing gaps with what their mind with what they want to.
      I would suggest some kind of online room, where they come, write their text and then 3rd party member unlocks both descriptions for each other at the same time.
      First of all, I think one of the main issues with dreaming in general is the very basic misunderstanding of how they work. Unless we are dreaming with a clone version of our self who has experienced exactly the same thing as us can we hope to share a dream without any confusion or mis-interpretation.
      Everybody knows that dream dictionaries do not work, it is ridiculous to think that a dictionary of symbols and what they mean could apply to everybody. Take for example something as simple as a lizard: one person dreams of a lizard, this person at a very young age watched a scary film about giant lizards and is terrified of them now, while another person dreams of this same lizard but as a child owned a pet lizard who he was very close to. While a third person has had no real interaction with lizards in his life and only knows them from the facts he has learnt: cold bloodied, reptile, lives in hot countries. (I could go on with the examples but I think you get the idea) Now what happens if two people who try to share a dream dreams of a lizard? Well first of all I propose that it depends on who projects the lizard (if it is coming from a dreamer and not an outside source) If the guy who had a lizard as a pet brings it into a shared dream then it is likely that the other dreamer will perceive the lizard as something more akin to a thing that it was close to as a child - possibly a pet dog or some such thing. While if we turn the dream around and it is the dreamer who is scared of the lizard (possibly subconsciously if it happened to him as a child) who projects the lizard into the shared dream then the dreamer receiving this information will translate this symbol into something that HE understands as scary (a horde of zombies for example). Both dreamers wake up, share information and conclude that the shared dream did not work.

      Now take the above example and apply it to EVERYTHING we encounter and project in the dreaming, because at it's core the dreaming is just energy and we are reading this energy and translating it into our personal symbolism so that we can understand it. I propose that it has nothing to do with how information is received, but rather more about how it is understood. Nomad and raven have many examples of this in their shared dreaming. While I agree that what Nomad and Raven achieved is a kind of perfect understanding toward one another so that what they encountered they both understood and perceived as the same, they still had many differences that backs up my theory on how we all perceive the same thing differently within the dreaming. Here is an example:

      (raven's dream)We soon arrived at the outpost of the dream warriors. They had an amazing city set up. The city looked like something that would be seen in a dream. We flew to a small area where we were able to land our ships. Spike and I got out and I saw Nomad and Selene get out of the other ship. A strange man came over to us. He was tall and slender, not human. He said he had been told we were interested in dream warriors. He showed us to a strange silver building. We went in through the door. I saw him saying something to Nomad but I didn't hear what.

      The room in the building was round. There was a chair in the center of the room. There were some people sitting around the edge of the room. I noticed the individual at the center chair looked like Yoda from Star Wars. I did a double take. I had not figured Yoda to be a dream warrior. Yoda called Nomad forward. They were talking for a bit and then Nomad left. Yoda turned his attention to me. I went over to him. He said here I would learn the ways of the dream warrior. He looked at me strangely and told me to gaze into a bowl he had. I looked in. There were images flowing around. It looked like a pensive from the Harry Potter books. I saw some images of me briefly and then it went hazy. Yoda looked a bit puzzled. He looked at me again. He said there was clearly more to me than the bowl was ready to show. He said all would be revealed in time. Spike came up next. It looked like Spike had to work hard not to cop a serious attitude with Yoda. Yoda seemed to ignore that. They spoke momentarily and then Yoda spoke with Selene. Yoda said now it was time to see what we have.

      Nomad's dream: As we followed him down the path, I looked around at the city. There were all types of races milling about. Some looked at us curiously, some gave us no heed. "I feel like I'm on Oa!" I thought. I instinctively morphed into a Green Lantern.

      Our guide turned to me and chuckled. "Yes, this is like Oa," he said, "but this is not. Keep that ring." I looked down at the Green Lantern ring on my finger. "When your imagination is too great to use to become a form, channel the power into your ring, and use it to defeat your enemies."
      I morphed back into my nomad self. I noticed the others were also walking around wide-eyed.

      The alien walked quickly ahead of us on the path, then suddenly morphed into a giant metallic spider-like structure. It was startling.
      "Do not be surprised," he said, "you are in the land of dreams. Now, step into my mouth."

      We walked into his mouth, and were suddenly in a dome shaped chamber made of stone, dimly lit by firelight. There was a group of people sitting in a semicircle on wooden chairs. In the center of the circle, was a stand with a pool of water.

      There was a creature sitting in the center chair, who looked like the Devil. He had smooth red skin, goat legs, the face of a man, and bull horns. "Step forward, Dream Warrior," he commanded Raven Knight. She stepped forward and stood before the water. "In your world, you are a Queen. Now you are an Apprentice. Gaze into the water." She looked down, and her eyes grew huge.

      - Raven perceived the doorway into a large building while Nomad perceived this as the alien opening his giant mouth and forming INTO a building
      - Raven perceived the dream master as Yoda while Nomad perceived him as devil (who later he found out was Pan) - this is a very interesting insight into the different type of people Raven and Nomad are


      In my opinion Raven and Nomad have given us the perfect example of shared dreaming and what it can accomplish. They did not know one another prior to this experiment, they had not pre-arranged any type of plan before doing the shared dreams, the chances against this happening by coincidence is phenomenal. As Nomad once told me himself when I first called for him in a dream 'read all the journals of mine and Raven, all the information you will need is there'

      The main issue though is that Raven and Nomad are one of a kind - in the way that they were able to share a dream on a whim. In the book 'Dream partners: an on going experiment' Maria Pita shows what all of us will encounter when trying to share a dream for the first time: that you need a heavy dose of persistence for it to pay off. Some people just happen to 'sync' straight away while others it takes a long time due to the fact that the way they think are so different.

      I understand the implications of what I am saying here: by introducing all of these additional factors it makes shared dreaming even more murky and unclear - and harder to prove then we would have previously thought. Put simply: if we want to share a dream we need to put the effort in. Think how difficult it was to achieve WILD's and MILD's on demand - now multiply that by 10 for shared dreaming. It's tough. I think we can all get to the stage of 'part sharing' where by we manage to penetrate through to the other dreamer but the two dreams reported are so different that only a few things sync up and this leaves the experiment inconclusive. They could be real connections but at the same time they can equally be explained away by coincidence. No, to get to any kind of place of proof we need to get to Nomad and Raven's level of dreaming - that is the only way to be sure. But then this leaves weeks,months, possibly years of un successful attempts and this creates problems. Because unless you believe doubt will add to the difficulty to share a dream and manifest itself as barriers within the dreaming

      In conclusion, shared dreaming is by no means easy - and given the fact that we are all speaking a different symbolic language within the dreaming this will always draw inconclusive results despite our best efforts. It is up to you to use an open mind, try to figure the dreams out symbolically to you before trying to match them with another person.
      Last edited by gab; 07-11-2015 at 11:56 PM. Reason: changed user name

    15. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by floatinghead View Post
      First of all, I think one of the main issues with dreaming in general is the very basic misunderstanding of how they work. Unless we are dreaming with a clone version of our self who has experienced exactly the same thing as us can we hope to share a dream without any confusion or mis-interpretation.
      Everybody knows that dream dictionaries do not work, it is ridiculous to think that a dictionary of symbols and what they mean could apply to everybody. Take for example something as simple as a lizard: one person dreams of a lizard, this person at a very young age watched a scary film about giant lizards and is terrified of them now, while another person dreams of this same lizard but as a child owned a pet lizard who he was very close to. While a third person has had no real interaction with lizards in his life and only knows them from the facts he has learnt: cold bloodied, reptile, lives in hot countries. (I could go on with the examples but I think you get the idea) Now what happens if two people who try to share a dream dreams of a lizard? Well first of all I propose that it depends on who projects the lizard (if it is coming from a dreamer and not an outside source) If the guy who had a lizard as a pet brings it into a shared dream then it is likely that the other dreamer will perceive the lizard as something more akin to a thing that it was close to as a child - possibly a pet dog or some such thing. While if we turn the dream around and it is the dreamer who is scared of the lizard (possibly subconsciously if it happened to him as a child) who projects the lizard into the shared dream then the dreamer receiving this information will translate this symbol into something that HE understands as scary (a horde of zombies for example). Both dreamers wake up, share information and conclude that the shared dream did not work.
      floatinghead, thank you for your interest in this question. I also read your topic about experiment on sd with your daughter.

      It is interesting theory that you have, but you are right it makes things unclear. It if was easy we would not spend so much time finding results, we all understand that lucid dreaming is something unique that, there is no guide to follow, and we are not a team of scientist who can conduct experiments daily. Honestly, I would like to look for answers that would make it easier and more simple to understand and do. Having symbolical results might not bring us any benefit on shared dreaming, so why bother? Do you really want to spend time on something that will be impossible to prove and has no benefit for anybody?
      I understand we have to move step by step, but I am afraid we can start moving in the wrong direction.

      Applying your theory to my dreams, I would assume that I had hundreds of shared dreams, but I know i did not. For example when I had my first symbolic shared dreaming experience with my friend who lived in the same apt, we never talked of where to meet. It all started by random syncs, like we were sharing our dreams and we found out that some of them were amazingly similar. For example he had a dream where he was standing in water on the edge of huge waterfall and there was somebody with him but he could not recall who, at the same time I had dream where I was standing in water close to the waterfall edge and there was nobody there, I was alone. We never talked our waterfall, I mean maybe we did some day, but definitely not during last month or so. Often we had very different desires and ideas about lucid dreaming, not connected in any way, but still we often dreamed of the same place.

      Let me tell you another theory, double slit experiments goes in favor of this theory. Before sharing it I want to say that I am not trying to prove any particular theory, I prefer to be aware of all well known theories, I am trying to apply any of them and see how things go.
      Lets say we are living in a Multiverse, lets call them realities. So there are infinite amount of realities, anything is possible there, even if something does not exist there, it can be created any time. Lets say our 'souls' are materialized in this reality where we live now. But when we dream our souls go on a tour, they travel anywhere around those infinite realities. It works similar as if we are watching a movie of other realities. As we know our inner intention is the power that controls all our dreams, so lets say intention does control our travel among those realities. Usually when you dream of this world things are different from what they are in real life, sometime little difference and sometimes its a huge difference and you cannot recognize a single place.
      coordinate_plane1.jpg
      Look at this picture, I made it very simple so you can understand the basic idea, originally it is very complex picture. So lets say our current reality is the white square in the middle, green ones are realities that are very close to us, yellow are far, and red ones are very very far. Now try to imagine the difference of our world in each different color.
      If we would dream in green, our world would look very similar, however it would be different in something. Here you have those dreams that sync with real life, but not fully, something is different.
      If we would dream in yellow, our world would look pretty different, maybe we took a different course of history and there are different countries and so on. You would not be able to get any pregoc information from such dream, everything would be different here.
      If we would dream in red box, world in this reality would be so different that our planet might not exist, we might not exist, we could be another life form, you could see empty space or other planets on this place.
      If we would dream in white box, now imagine that this 1 white box is really really huge and exactly in the middle there is our current reality. If we would dream there everything would be exactly the same as it is in real life. Remote viewing dreams would be possible, precog dreams would be possible and everything around us would be exactly the same as it is in real life. Also we would look exactly the same in this dream.
      Now add time to this model: past, present and future. It all becomes more difficult, you might think that dreaming in the middle of white box in future time would be dreaming of future that will for sure happen. No, its not right. Why? because we are not moving straight forward, our actions and that little power of intention that we still have in this current reality, are moving us towards other realities that are located just next to us, maybe they are also in the middle of that white box but they are already not exactly there, they moved a bit. So lets say the prophecy should become true in 2 years, during those 2 years we could shift right or left, down or up on that white box and things would change a bit, we would still have a prophecy, but it would be around 80% accurate.

      Now apply this model to shared dreaming, seems like you have all the answers. Two people are dreaming at the same time, 1st is dreaming somewhere close to our current reality, 2nd is dreaming somewhere further. They both meet how they think 'each other', but they actually meet another version of each other. So 1st person would see a version of his decorations and his version of 2nd person. And 2nd person would see decorations from his own reality and his version of 1st person. Both of them would look similar to what they really look in real life, but both of them are different to each other, also one person would describe different world around him then the other. So first they need to meet somewhere and then it would depend on how far they are dreaming from each other, how far are their realities.
      Only in the event if both people dream exactly in this reality, they would both see the exact same version of each other as they are in real life. They would see the exact same world around them, they would be able to exchange any information, basically it would be similar to real life meeting. Also keep in mind that dreaming almost in the same reality would produce similar effect as in the same reality.
      The problem is that, I think that dreaming in our current reality is very very hard, close to impossible.

      You can apply same theory for precognitive dreaming, remote viewing and etc. If the person dreams in the same or reality that is very close to our current reality he would see the same things, he would be able to see same objects allaround the world, he would be able to see future or past if he succeeds at traveling in time and in closer realities.

      And I am sure there are other theories that would fit lucid dreaming and all the beyond dreaming events.


      I have much more to say, but I don't have much time now. I am going to continue today or tomorrow
      Last edited by user5659; 11-20-2013 at 01:28 PM.

    16. #16
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      VERY interesting, thank you so much for sharing. I really like this theory and your approach to it. I think you have definitely hit on some truths here. I would go so far as to say we may have both stumbled on PARTS of the truth (I hope!)

      What I did not mention regarding my current theory is that I feel that symbolism incompatibility can be worked on. I feel that perhaps we are sending out somekind of 'frequency', similar to finding a radio signal we can work on finding and improving on strengthening that signal each time we try and share a dream. This idea would also work within the framework of your theory in that, with enough practice and control, you could focus just on that 'white' box. I think, based on Nomad and Raven's Diary there will always be small differences because we feel emotionally different toward each thing, but we can get to a good enough point in shared dreaming to prove it.

      also, if you take away symbolism completely and go straight to it's core you will find emotion. I hypothesize that emotion would not be confused with any psychical thing so we could use basic emotions to send through the dreaming to help to prove shared dreaming: sadness, happiness, fear, disgust etc

      I have had some very strange syncs in the last couple of weeks which were NOT intentional. For example, Katsuno on the IOSDP forum sent another user a nightmare of Freddy Kruger a couple of weeks ago on saturday night. On saturday night I had a nightmare of freddy Kruger (who I always thought was kinda funny more than scary)

      And last Saturday I had a strange dream (which distinctly felt it was not mine) of a couple of ancient 'gods' healing something with the moon, and a person who I recently started talking to about shared dreaming had a dream with the same contents in on Saturday also

    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by floatinghead View Post
      VERY interesting, thank you so much for sharing. I really like this theory and your approach to it. I think you have definitely hit on some truths here. I would go so far as to say we may have both stumbled on PARTS of the truth (I hope!)

      What I did not mention regarding my current theory is that I feel that symbolism incompatibility can be worked on. I feel that perhaps we are sending out somekind of 'frequency', similar to finding a radio signal we can work on finding and improving on strengthening that signal each time we try and share a dream. This idea would also work within the framework of your theory in that, with enough practice and control, you could focus just on that 'white' box. I think, based on Nomad and Raven's Diary there will always be small differences because we feel emotionally different toward each thing, but we can get to a good enough point in shared dreaming to prove it.

      also, if you take away symbolism completely and go straight to it's core you will find emotion. I hypothesize that emotion would not be confused with any psychical thing so we could use basic emotions to send through the dreaming to help to prove shared dreaming: sadness, happiness, fear, disgust etc

      I have had some very strange syncs in the last couple of weeks which were NOT intentional. For example, Katsuno on the IOSDP forum sent another user a nightmare of Freddy Kruger a couple of weeks ago on saturday night. On saturday night I had a nightmare of freddy Kruger (who I always thought was kinda funny more than scary)

      And last Saturday I had a strange dream (which distinctly felt it was not mine) of a couple of ancient 'gods' healing something with the moon, and a person who I recently started talking to about shared dreaming had a dream with the same contents in on Saturday also
      Prior to having that Freddy nightmare, did you read about it, that it happened to someone else?

      Regarding emotions, yea that would work I guess. But Will it be enough proof for most people? There are not many emotions, if we could sync random events, we could also luckily sync on same emotion. Especially if there are many participants, for sure some will have the same emotion. If you put a target for everyone in a group to invade each other dreams and make nightmares, I am pretty sure most of them will have nightmares all the time.

      And yea, your idea about frequency. I am already working on that idea for last 6 years.
      There was one period in my lucid dreaming carrier, where I got bored of all that lucid dreaming has to offer me. I did so many random shit, honestly I did everything that I could only imagine. I decided that it was time to move on, and this is where I got that idea of the frequency or how to focus where to dream, in other words how fly far and how to stay close. Iv been thinking a lot about it and decided to make it simple, I would imagine something similar to that picture but much more complex, including time and more then 2 dimensions. I was trying to think of as far distance as possible prior to sleeping, also I spent some time thinking about it in university. After two month of trying to get further I finally got there. And it was fucking awesome, it was something that I never experienced before. All those artificial worlds that I created before, all the weirdness was nothing compared to what I saw in the distant dream. During last 6 years I could get there only 5 times, during my 4th dream I decided to quit lucid dreaming because it was something that strange that I could not handle to understand at all. Not the actual dream, but how it changed me and my life, my thinking and behavior. After some time I came back to lucid dreaming, only to find that place again. So to answer your question, it is definitely possible to control the distance of where you want to dream. It is possible, but hard. Also I think if you put a target of mastering that skill, you can start doing it more often. I put this dream into one of the types - 2a (Alien Lucid Dream) - read more here: http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...eam-types.html
      If you are interested to read those 5 dreams, I can the links here.

      Regarding the white box, and the middle of white box. This is much more complicated then going to further realities, or maybe I think so because I could not interpret the real distance I traveled when I dreamt in distant realities. So, can we control the ability to dream in this white box? After many many attempts, many experiments and many thoughts I came to a conclusion that this ability is absolutely connected to hypnagogic state. I believe this is the real key, the answer to both shared dreaming, remote viewing and precognitive dreams. I am not sure if it is possible at all to dream in that white box during regular REM LD. According to my experience and to experience of others whom I questioned to find that answer - it is very hard, or close to impossible. The best what you will get is a similar reality, I bet you will always find some difference in it.
      When do we have that hypnagogic state of mind? This is the question that I am still trying to answer completely. Some of the possible ways are:

      nREM WILD - Going to sleep without loosing conscious mind, going directly into the dream and staying lucid. This can be very tricky, but we can keep some of our logical mind for a short period of time.

      DEILD - waking up and going back to sleep, during OBE's in DEILD's world around us is usually pretty similar to what it is in real life. And this is what we need.

      Some controlled way of staying both awake and dreaming, staying in between. I can recall only few situations where I felt that it was that exactly state.
      1st - when I was not sleeping for around 54-60 hours. At some point I could see both my waking life and blurred images from dreams, I am pretty sure those were hallucinations coming from dreams, because they looked like dreams. I was sitting in the tram and I was watching my self from a 3rd person floating camera. I was walking on streets and I saw some transparent objects around me, lots of audio hallucinations as well.

      2nd - when I was obsessed with ADA and RC's, I took them so seriously, I really questioned the reality. After some time I had few precognition situations, where I would know what happens next, read more here: http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...ve-dreams.html
      Read the precognition parts.

      In the same state, during DEILD, I did these few small steps in remote viewing experiment. That was 3 days ago - http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...ml#post2061155

      //
      If you are interested in this theory that iv shared, you should consider trying all your experiments in state somewhere between dreaming and awake. Honestly, I believe this could be the key. I also believe that shared dreaming and other beyond dreaming stuff should be possible in REM DILD, we just need to learn how to do it.

      I have some more ideas on shared dreaming, will post them later.
      Last edited by user5659; 11-20-2013 at 09:15 PM.
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      1. Create an email. Make it something very easy to remember. Never give this information to anyone unless you are dreaming.
      2. Create a very easy to remember password. Again only give this out in dreams.
      3. Attempt to get the person to wake up and email you the password immediately.
      4. Make sure to change the password every time a shared dream has been confirmed.

      When you receive an email from someone who claims you told them to email you, and they give you the current password you are using, you have just confirmed a shared dream experience. The actual details of the dream may be interesting, but they are not important. If not a confirmed shared dream, how else could you explain receiving secret passwords at a secret email which you never told anyone about outside of your dreams?

      If you want personal confirmation simply follow these 4 steps, if you want to prove shared dreaming to the world, good luck!

      Have fun. May your existences be long and enjoyable.
      See you in the dream plane.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mylynes View Post
      1. Create an email. Make it something very easy to remember. Never give this information to anyone unless you are dreaming.
      2. Create a very easy to remember password. Again only give this out in dreams.
      3. Attempt to get the person to wake up and email you the password immediately.
      4. Make sure to change the password every time a shared dream has been confirmed.

      When you receive an email from someone who claims you told them to email you, and they give you the current password you are using, you have just confirmed a shared dream experience. The actual details of the dream may be interesting, but they are not important. If not a confirmed shared dream, how else could you explain receiving secret passwords at a secret email which you never told anyone about outside of your dreams?

      If you want personal confirmation simply follow these 4 steps, if you want to prove shared dreaming to the world, good luck!

      Have fun. May your existences be long and enjoyable.
      See you in the dream plane.
      You don't even need to go through all 4 steps, just pick up a number and remember it, or write it down if you cant remember. As soon you confirm the same number, you can change it.

      But it's not that simple, so we are trying to figure out how could we do it confidently.

      I think the only way to really prove shared dreaming is to learn how to do it on daily basis, anytime somebody ask's you to do it - you do it. Otherwise it will be always considered luck or something else. But I think we can't just jump from nothing to everything, we have to learn it step by step.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Mylynes View Post
      1. Create an email. Make it something very easy to remember. Never give this information to anyone unless you are dreaming.
      2. Create a very easy to remember password. Again only give this out in dreams.
      3. Attempt to get the person to wake up and email you the password immediately.
      4. Make sure to change the password every time a shared dream has been confirmed.

      When you receive an email from someone who claims you told them to email you, and they give you the current password you are using, you have just confirmed a shared dream experience. The actual details of the dream may be interesting, but they are not important. If not a confirmed shared dream, how else could you explain receiving secret passwords at a secret email which you never told anyone about outside of your dreams?

      If you want personal confirmation simply follow these 4 steps, if you want to prove shared dreaming to the world, good luck!

      Have fun. May your existences be long and enjoyable.
      See you in the dream plane.
      This is very interesting. Is that password you speak of what ailita was talking about when she mentioned birthday banana?
      I am really interested in participating in a shared dream experience, and if someone could somehow find me to share a dream with, maybe I can do the same with others.
      Sounds like you, alter, nomad, etc speak of scaring them into awareness, then doing the email thing. I read a dream from nomad and raven about how they entered through a portal. They saw a guy and told him he was dreaming. From all of the things your group has said, I think it may be easy to do. All it takes is a belief it can be done, and a small amount of dream control.
      Basically, I'd like someone to initiate one with me, but I think I will try to do this in my next lucid if I remember. Create a portal, find someone, make it a point to get them to remember a certain detail when they wake up.
      I know firsthand how hard it is to remember specific names, conversations, phrases, etc from dreams, but if you can succeed, which it sounds like you have, it would be worth it.
      I have become quite interested on the layers of lucidity, and I use them to measure how lucid a dream is. For more information on these layers, click here.

    21. #21
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      I tried out a password system before and it failed, I found it gave an 'approximation' of the word.This is where personal symbolism comes into play and interferes with what you are perceiving. As in the example above - I say 'lizard' (to me it resembles 'pet') and you receive 'puppy' - ergo, you receive the wrong word and experiment fails.
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      Part 2, update is on the main post - http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...ml#post2061363

    23. #23
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      Oct 2009, two months after he joined Dreamviews, Waking Nomad opened this thread.

      ***

      http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...ing-nomad.html

      ***(67replies/2882views now) [/b]locked [/b] due to yap-yap.

      WN quoted something originally Posted by*spaceexplorer*on another thread.

      Originally Posted by*spaceexplorer*

      Ok let's do an experiment, if that is an offer?

      To do so, We're going to need you to explain the scope and limitations of your claimed abilities as clearly and as specifically as possible, what you believe is and isn't possible.Once we've established your terms, we can work out an experiment that abides by your abilities, but is also free from foul play.

      I would absolutely love for you to prove to be right about this, I really would.

      Things that may or may not be relevant are:

      1- Is your shared dreaming ability limited to two people being in REM sleep at the same time? or do you consider dreaming to not be restricted to our usual waking limitations of time?

      2 - What kind of information can be transfered within the dreamstate?

      3 * What do you believe you require in order to make a connection with another dreamer?

      4 - There may be other factors but we'll address those as we go along, but these seem most pertinent.
      Waking Nomad replies

      1) - No, I don't think that two people have to be in REM sleep at the same time.

      2) - The type of information is mainly intent. An example is a dream that Raven and I had where we were on a boat to see the Collosus.

      I perceived her teasing me about pretending to be George Washington in the bow of the boat, but she said that she told me I was going to fall off. So, she teased me in both instances.I think the easiest thing would be for us to have dream adventures together.

      Over time, communication becomes easier. Then, you could do something like tell me your first name.

      Numbers are hard to remember, just as they are hard to see in dreams on a piece of paper.

      Doing things like magic spells or summoning is great because dreams are so visual. If you could summon a car with legs, that is probably something I could see and remember as opposed to something you told me.

      3) - In order to make a connection to the other dreamer, I believe we should give each other permission to share dreams with each other. I don't think it's a requirement to share dreams with anyone, but the intent of both parties is important to do it repeatedly.

      Dream recall is important, not for actually sharing dreams, but to verify that you and the other person shared a dream.*

      Reading the other's DJ helps, because it helps you to get to know the other person's dream personality, and will help with recognition. It's kind of like the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Comics. They all had read headbands around their eyes, but you could tell them apart by their personalities.

      Becoming proficient at WILD'ing helps a lot, so we can meet at the same place, with both of us being already lucid.Being open to the possibility helps, because if you totally disbelieve it, then, you may dismiss small synchronicities.

      In the beginning Raven and I had a few synchronicities. They increased with time. Sometimes it's less, sometimes more.

      I am glad you are going to do this with me. I sincerely want everyone to be able to have shared lucid dreams.*

      3nd post spaceexplorer

      Well, I'd like to propose an experiment.

      I've taken on board what you've had to say and have a few thoughts on the matter.

      First and most importantly, I am more than happy to give you permission to share dreams.There is no question in this, I would be incredibly happy for the phenomena to be proven, and would happily eat my words, if you can prove it.

      Ok with that out of the way, I need to address some of the issues at hand here.From what you've said, it seems you would be happiest with just us both agreeing to share dreams, then keeping dream journals to reflect if we have.*Whilst, this may be a fun casual approach, It's got some huge flaws.

      Firstly, and without wanting to sound flippant, that approach is essentially like playing snap, whilst at the same time educating each others minds as to the most possible dream themes that each other are likely to experience.With the suggestable nature of the dreaming mind, it would only be a matter of time, of reading each others journals, that we would start to experience similar themes, simply based on suggestion alone...

      that combined with a game of psychological "snap", looking for patterns in the dreams, we are bound to see patterns, where there may be none, or at least none that are evidence of a genuine shared dream experience.We would both be supplying each other with a psychological profile, and on top of that treating our dreams like some kind of noctural inkblot test.SO, with those criticisms aside, here is the experiment I suggest, It is not experimentally perfect, but it should rule out any kind of non-dream-sharing influence, and i'm sure will be both educational and acceptable to most members of the forum.

      The Experiment.

      The experiment will last one week, starting on the evening of Sunday the 18th (the full moon) by GMT standard time.It will end on the morning of the Sunday 25th.I shall choose an image, that I will try and send to you, either in a shared dream, or via dream telepathy, obviously aiming for a shared dream, but either would be fine.I will create a gmail account, before the experiment starts, and email the image to that gmail account. This provide evidence that the image choosen has not been changed during the experiment... as i will provide the email login details should anyone wish to check this at the end of the experiment.Other than the email address, nobody other than myself will be made aware of what this image is.During my dreams, as a proficient lucid dreamer, i shall attempt to open my mind to contact you, summon you up as it were.I will then try and project this image in as many means possible...I will make the dream scene change to this image, speak the image description out loud, feel the mood of the image etc.Anything that I possibly can during the dream. This will continue during each dream that week. Also whilst awake, i will take time to project the image to you via some kind of meditation.I will be keeping my usual private written*dream journal, which may be available for scrutiny after the experiment.During the week, I shall not post any dreamjournal entries in the forum, I will not discuss the project, or do anything that could influence or give you "clues" about the choosen image.However, during this week, WakingNomad, as you are the one who shall be reciving the image, if you could post any dreams in which you feel contact was made in this thread. That is all that is required of you. Just be honest, keep an open mind. At the end of the week when the experiment is over, so as the knowledge will not influence me during the sending, I will ask a random friend of mine, not a forum member, to choose ANY image they wish, and to email me this image... this image will act as a control against the original.At this point, I will post both the actual image and the control image into the forum.*We can then ask, perhaps via a poll and discussion, any interested forum members to judge your weeks dreams, against both images. They are to look for any evidence in your dreams, that either of the images were picked up.Once voting and discussion has been completed, I shall reveal the actual sent image, and offer the email credentials for the gmail account for conformation.I think this is a fair, and simple experiment, it rules out us simply influencing each others dreams by other means.It will also be fascinating to see the results, especially considering the judges will also not be influenced as they will be in the dark to the actually transmitted image, until their conclusions have been considered.ps. I would have prefered to sent a number or something more specific, but I am trying to appeal to the criteria you requested.*

      Waking Nomad (1, 11, 20,
      Nina (2, 4.6.7, 16, 19, 24,
      spaceexplorer (3, 5, 8, 12, 18, 21,
      Supernova (9,
      DreamQueen (10, 23,
      moonshine (14,
      Cusp (15,
      Raven Knight (17, 22, 23, 25) end of page one.
      user5659 likes this.

    24. #24
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      I was very interested about what havago said, people who tried to prove remote viewing had some kind of shared dream instead. I was thinking why could this happen. So here are my few ideas on this.


      Lets say we have this kind of experiment:
      - a) We have a host, a person who keeps the box with unknown object inside. Only he knows what is the object.
      - b) We have a remote viewer who is trying to locate that box and look inside.
      - c) And we have that box with no mind, which is keeping that object

      1- You might assume that 'b' has to locate 'a', then locate 'c' and find what is inside 'c'. Considering that 'b' cannot find location by coordinates only, he needs to find 'a', because 'c' is somewhere near 'a'
      or
      2- You might assume that 'b' has to locate 'c', and find what is inside 'c'. Only if 'b' has some info about the location of 'c'.


      But when you are doing the actual experiment this is how I think it is happening during '1' and '2':
      1- I assume that 'b' found 'a', found what is inside the box by obtaining information from 'a'. Where 'c' was not involved, it only created an idea/memory in 'a' head.
      or
      2- I assume that 'b' found 'c' by coordinates, 'b' found 'a' because he is nearby to 'c', 'b' got the information about what is inside the box from 'a' mind.

      ///

      I think to really prove remote viewing, experiment should look something like this.
      - d) We have a person who hides an object inside the box and gives it to 'a'.
      - a) We have a host, a person who keeps the box with unknown object inside somewhere near him.
      - b) We have a remote viewer who is trying to locate that box and look inside. 'b' does not know 'd' at all.
      - c) And we have that box with no mind, which is keeping that object

      3- 'd' gave the box to 'a'. Now 'a' does not know what is inside his box. 'b' found 'a' who is nearby 'c', 'b' finds the 'c', 'b' tries to see what is inside the 'c'. 'b' cant find out what is inside 'c' by reading 'a' mind.

      'b' has to use remote viewing to succeed.





      Hope you got my point. If host knows what is inside the box, then possibly what you will prove is not remote viewing but Shared Dreaming or Telepathy. Because host knows about the object and remote viewer can somehow obtain that information from his mind while he is awake or sleeping. Also remote viewer might get into a shared dream with the host where host will unintentionally or intentionally dream of that box and object which is inside, or dream about the object itself without any box.

      This explains why in those experiments, instead of proving remote view, they'v got into other's dream.
      Last edited by user5659; 11-21-2013 at 12:46 PM.

    25. #25
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      I love your approach to dream remote viewing and share dreaming. Actually I am enthralled.

      I am reformatting your opening post and hope to put ot near the top of page 2 when it opens.

      I'm doing it for me and those like me who need (very small) paragraphs to piece things together, mentally.

      My ideas about how remote viewing and share dreaming works is very different to you. I have a metaphorical mind (I think in stories).

      So

      I think we are one being in billions of different bodies, along the entire (life in the universe) timeline.

      So

      any amount of tuning in to a remote viewing object, through dreams, causes that one being to exuberantly join in as a third party.

      This causes precognition because she/he is not just everyone but lives though out all time in this moment.

      What blows me away is when this one being exuberantly crashes through into physical reality with off the scale sync's.

      Checkout the first few posts of this thread:

      ***

      http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...-reloaded.html

      ***

      But

      I like reading how you see it "flowofmysoul"
      Last edited by gab; 07-11-2015 at 11:56 PM.
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