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    Thread: On The Nature of Shared Dreaming

    1. #151
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      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      Thanks Sivason.

      If I think about my capacity to feel, I can create a sort of cascading avalanche of feeling from the top of my skull to my toes. (I haven't done this more than a couple of times, more than 20 years ago, because it seems pointless, but presumably I still can if I want to.) Any relationship to your yarn ball? Totally irrelevant?
      This is totally relevant. There is always a chance it is nothing but imagery, but it sounds exactly like one of the common pathways and like you clearly can sense it. I would start any work with that model and get to where you can feel it at will. Then in higher intensity. Then try to influence its motion. For example it can be given a spiral current in either direction as it cascades by applying intent.

      I think all of your above thoughts on this are sound and on what I would think of as on track. I can of course not tell anyone else what the truths are, beyond very simple aspects of how I experience it.

      Size and location is a weird and hard to grasp aspect. The location of one of these bodies in that field seem unrelated to location in the world. In fact I do not think the energy body is attached physically to us. It is connected, but I feel location is somehow a thing of this world and not related to the physics of this stuff. In a real sense the energy body also extends infinitely into the whole but has a center. that center is the base of its identity and can actually have spacial relationship to patterns in the field. For instance there is a center point of some large source (God? Just some big thing, like the sun?) that I can sense. I can move my energy body to be in line with what i would think of as an accretion disk caused by that thing and also adjust my axis to fit most successfully with it like a planet in a stable orbit and spin.
      Size in my jargon does not relate to size in this world, say that your energy body is as big as a house or the city. It is more that it is something that can be added onto. It can be developed in a way that it contains 'more.'
      Maybe it is related to a sensory organ or nerves, but I suspect it is a sense of the energy body, so the sensory organ may be composed of this other matter, not flesh. I don't know.
      The parallel universe thing is a big part of my thinking. In my experience this is all data sets and no physical world truly exists. Therefore if we look at it as a created virtual world, we now do not have to worry about limits. We do not need to create a new sun each time a new reality is created. Instead it is just a variant version of the program running separately. It makes sense that the energy body may be able to access information from variant programs.
      In the end please let me close with: I do not know. I only can relate my experience and suspicions.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.

      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

    2. #152
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      Well thinking back to when Sageous started this thread 6 years ago to pleasantly speculate on dream sharing mechanisms, Sivason's "Yarn Ball" theory has some parallels to the "thought energy bubbles" theory and later the "thought energy threads" (which all make me think of Castenada's energy balls with assemblage points to energy strings, if I remember).

      1. Time and space are not part of these theories. (Because known physics has not been able to measure the subject of our speculations, perhaps scientist know some brain structures and brain waves associated with "awakeness" but nothing about consciousness is understood, least of all, the interaction of these consciousnesses outside of these measurable structures and energies. It makes sense that such theories must act through "natural" "physics" different from those of the matter and energy we are able to measure, a bit like the black matter Sivason mentionned... if possible)
      2. Trying to imagine this different spaceless/timeless/immeasurable matter/energy, we often think of balls and strings. Makes me think of how we can think of light as photons (matter, balls) or radiation (energy/string).
      3. These theories include a whole (a sheet, mesh or cohesive tensions) within which to find individual "bodies" (bubble, thread, ball) that connects in an ambiguous way with our individual physical bodies.
      4. Somewhere along the bigger otherworldly energy structures, I guess, you can find the different parallel universes which often accompany these theories but I think the theories are least clear on this because it is the most speculative and furthest from our measurable life experience.

      In terms of difference, when thinking about Sageous thought energy, I feel like he is speculating about a different energy than Sivason is discussing... Both these matter/energies are spaceless/timeless/immeasurable. Why do I think both these matter/energy are different? Because one is associated with thought and the other with Kundalini perhaps? As far as I understand it, Kundalini is an "evolutionary" energy of growth, not a vitality, energy of life. Again, I don't yet understand this distinction.

      Sageous' theorised thought energy gives me the impression that it is efferent (outward in direction, after the self in orientation, in a timeless, spaceless way) whereas I imagine Sivason's model as being afferent (inward in direction, before the self in orientation, in a timeless, spaceless way) (mostly because I'm trying to imagine it as a Kundalini energy of evolution and growth).

      Yet... even if their theories are not meant to have the direction I am assigning to them, even if two such energy/matter system with these directions exist, they could not intuitively be two parts of one cycle, like "A" energy "moving" into you, then "B" energy "moving" out of you... because at any point, anything that is afferent to you is efferent to someone else and vice versa. So they would be the same energy/matter.

      Instead, what I mean to speculate about, is that there could be different matter/energy systems such as Sivason's, Sageous', Carlos' or whomever that follow the 4 precepts I mentioned above. I'm not sure with what roles.

      For the fun of it, I'm gonna say Thought energy is efferent (outward) and Kundalini energy is afferent (inward) though they are not a cycle of eachother. I see Kundalini energy/matter as being composed of a range of energies from "naive innocence" (Imagine this as a color, I guess, like low frequency electromagnetic wave is "red") to "uplifting wisdom", being an evolutionary energy... and thought energy as being a "colorful" array of personalities and identities...

      I'm sorry I used Thought energy and Kundalini energy, you may as well replace them with A energy and B energy. I'm just leisurely philosophizing on these different spacless/timeless energies and used those preexistant systems to inspire me...
      sivason and Sageous like this.

    3. #153
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      Quote Originally Posted by sivason View Post
      For instance there is a center point of some large source (God? Just some big thing, like the sun?) that I can sense.
      I associate the sun with a ‘nature’ spirit that is connected to this world. There’s another spirit, sort of a parent to humanity, that is in some sense from somewhere else. Humanity is sort of grafted on to the rest of the animal kingdom of this world, which this ‘outside’ spirit has modified for its own uses. There’s an embrace or a dance between the sun spirit and the outside spirit. I experience the earth and its associated sun as being like a room in a very large network of rooms. There’s a veil of sorts that keeps us from knowing very much about what’s in all the other rooms, the same kind of subconsciously voluntary veil that keeps us from being too much in each other’s heads as individuals. The ‘outside’ spirit transcends time. If a person were to suggest that the ‘outside’ spirit is the ‘nature’ spirit but from the distant future, I think that would be wrong, but not entirely wrong.

      A reason I haven’t done any exercises of the type you suggest, or any other type, is it doesn’t seem relevant to what I care about. I’m not saying it’s not relevant, just that I don’t feel the relevance, hence I have no motivation. I guess it is that way for most people.

      As an example to illustrate what I do care about, consider a mother duck. The duck cares for her ducklings. She has a half dozen every season, most of which she will fail to keep alive until adulthood. I can’t accept this. I understand that this may be the only way that nature can work, in which case I will have to learn to accept it, or I will die. But that doesn’t fix the problem for me. It’s really not about suffering, it is more about the wrongness of the violation of the mother’s love. Most people shield themselves from this by not feeling it very directly. Some people even deny that the duck can feel. But I can’t shield myself. I don’t even want to. So I have spent my life trying to find a solution to this problem which is probably insane to try to solve. Pretty much everything that I vaguely ‘know’ about spiritual stuff is a result of this.
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    4. #154
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      Quote Originally Posted by Occipitalred View Post
      Well thinking back to when Sageous started this thread 6 years ago to pleasantly speculate on dream sharing mechanisms, Sivason's "Yarn Ball" theory has some parallels to the "thought energy bubbles" theory and later the "thought energy threads" (which all make me think of Castenada's energy balls with assemblage points to energy strings, if I remember)...
      You know, I was going to do the dutiful thing the other day and suggest that we get back on topic, but then I noticed that you guys were pretty much talking about things similar to my OP (if I remember it correctly); especially Sivason's generous post #147 above. Now I'm glad I kept my trap shut.

      Thanks for the interesting conversation, guys, and for that nice summary, Occipitalred; I'm glad this thread has found another moment of life, as I have a feeling this stuff might be important (to someone, someday...)!
      sivason and Lang like this.

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