DJ Comments

Woah, that's rare! I wasn't expecting anyone to know what it was. I used to peruse fitness supplement forums every now and then, it's a hidden goldmine of drug information. I'm not fit enough to justify actually using this stuff for exercise, but I'm always trying to seek out new uses for things. I have taken things for the heck of it before though, and I am familiar with yohimbine. Rauwolscine is certainly less physical by comparison. Yohimbine made me anxious easily even before I really had anxiety, back when I could take large doses of amphetamine and be fine. It's a nasty drug, if you ask me.

I was intending on trying the rauwolscine before bed, just because I never do WBTBs anyway. The main issue is that a big part of the reason I don't do them is because once I'm up, I'm pretty much up. I've tried to do WBTBs many times and failed, and adding a stimulant into the mix doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence as far as increasing my chances of falling asleep again goes. Do you know what Yuschak recommends for yohimbine, though? I'd be willing to consider it if taking it before bed isn't going to be very effective anyway.

Here's the deal with yohimbine vs rauwolscine. As far as I'm concerned, from a pharmacological standpoint, yohimbine is just shy of being perfect, but it has a major drawback. Due to blocking adrenergic autoreceptors, it causes a stimulation of the prefrontal cortex by increasing the release of catecholamines and acetylcholine and enhances REM phases while dampening most other sleep phases. That alone sounds GREAT. The problem? Well, aside from the fact that it's physically stimulating, yohimbine also blocks dopamine receptors, especially D2. That means that it actually weakens the generation of the dream world at its core. That by itself is enough to earn a permanent ban from my catalog of dream supplements, because I want all the D2 I can get (both asleep AND awake!). Believe me, I used to chase out the drugs that had D2 activity because they're like invariably the best by far. Raulwoscine, on the other hand... lacks dopamine receptor affinity. Its stimulation is also mental much more than physical, but otherwise it keeps roughly the same effects as yohimbine because it mostly shares the other receptor sites. This includes the prefrontal stimulation and changes in sleep phases. See where I'm going with this?

Hey, we just got our Girl Scout cookies today. No rauwolscine, but I'm still excited.

Nice! Enjoy them, we're already on the second wave because the first was gone so quickly.

Hey, I have heard of rauwolscine! In particular I have heard it recommended as an alternative to yohimbine for those that get too much anxiety and side effects from taking actual yohimbine. (The context was rauwolscine's alpha receptor antagonism and its use for fat loss in already-lean individuals.) I know it's easy to overdo things on yohimbine and become very anxious, but I don't know as much about rauwolscine's side effects.

I am very interested in what you've got cooking here! You are thinking about using it before bed rather than as a WBTB type of deal? I know that Yuschak recommended yohimbine for high levels of reasoning and dream control. Are you going for the same thing or looking for a different set of effects?

I followed this up with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, potato chips, and two trefoil cookies. (Girl scout cookies!

Hey, we just got our Girl Scout cookies today. No rauwolscine, but I'm still excited.

Ha ha, nice! A Disgaea dream!! Now I'm even more looking forward to trying this game out. Guess I'll find out whether this "Axel" makes an appearance in Disgaea 1.

I love how naturally cool video game dream content comes to you. Art's DJ is like this, too, and I think it's great. I think it's slowly starting to rub off on me, but what I really need to do is find time to actually play some games once in a while

And I LOL'd at your "barricade".

The only DC I can ever recall seeing twice actually had a lot of power too, so it's an interesting thought.... The first time she used super speed and strength, and the second time she was able to multiply herself and control more than one body at once. (A personal goal!) I've always wanted to come across her again since then, but I never have. I wonder if I could incubate a meeting with her....

Oh, now she sounds cool! The fact that she possessed all of these skills that interested makes her very intriguing. Maybe it's fanciful, but you can't help but wonder if she could somehow walk you through this stuff. I had a short lucid fragment where a DC was teaching me short-range teleportation, and it was oddly motivating!

Whatever your interest, I'll bet that surely you could arrange a meeting if you wanted one. I have high hopes for the "look-away-then-handshake" trick that I used last time to call Xanous, although the "the person is already right behind me, and I now I will turn around" technique seems to be pretty good too.

For example, I once was talking to someone about a dream they had where they were sitting in front of a wall of TV screens that each displayed different possible futures for their lives following different paths they could take, and they just sat there considering each screen one at a time and then watching them play out as a whole. That's just using their lucids for introspection and self-improvement, but it's still more incredible than my experiences!

Now that is a stunning image! Okay, you're right, it's clearly got nothing to do with being out of ideas. I guess it's about growing powerful enough to confront your own depth and complexity. I'm only powerful enough to play. Ah, but I love it so!

The wheel is a method that I've heard many people say they used as a kid, one that just came to them naturally. It would be like several different incubation scenarios would flash by on a wheel in their mind, and when they found one they liked they would just latch on to it and then that dream would happen. Totally unconnected people have reported this, I've seen it a pretty good number of times. I don't really know how one would go about pulling it off, other than just the obvious method of trying to visualize that word for word. I wish I knew more!

Very cool, thank you! So it's something that pops up naturally for a lot of young dream incubators but isn't well-studied or necessarily named... it's so similar to the cycles of hypnagogic imagery you get heading into a WILD. They just sort of flicker by until you finally latch on to one well enough to follow it under w/ your awareness intact. G+C seems to intensify this process (at least in my experience.) I wonder if it is the same/similar or a totally different experience compared to the wheel. Very intriguing...

Yeah, melatonin is pretty interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if the GABA stuff is actually a big part of it, though, because I'm resistant to most GABA drugs anyway, so it fits well. I wonder how much research they've really done on melatonin? I don't think I've really looked much into it besides that and comparisons to some synthetic melatonin receptor agonists and antagonists. It might be worth taking a closer peek at!

Interesting that you are sort of GABAergic-proof. I am quite inexperienced with GABAergics. The only substance I use with GABAergic properties is L-theanine, which I generally use to calm my mind for sleep if I've got a WBTB cocktail going that I think could give me insomnia. (Most crucially for the Galantamine / choline salt / Alpha-GPC stack at WBTB.) Does L-theanine have any effect on you at all? It sounded like it didn't do much for Xanous.

That's pretty awesome, especially the second one! I would love to have something like that happen. I think I might make this a lucid goal now!

Cool! I'd definitely love to see something like that pop up in your dream journal!

Neurotransmitter precursors are definitely something to be more careful with. Serotonin is not something you want to screw around with. I honestly can't even take more than like... I want to say 250 mg of 5-HTP without getting nauseous or anxious. Supposedly a lot of it is converted into serotonin peripherally, and serotonin doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier so then that would provide only physical effects. I know an easy way to get around this though, but I haven't really tried it. I am considering trying L-DOPA for dreams, though. Have you ever given that a shot?

Yes, great point. And if it's not winding up in the brain, now you've got high serum levels of serotonin doing... other things. I've never gone over 100 mg on 5-HTP since that seems to be plenty to deliver beautiful deep sleep -> REM rebound for galantamine night. That's all I ask, so gimme the lowest dose I can find that'll do the job!

Edit: Oops! Forgot to answer the L-dopa question! I have not, but I will definitely mix it in at some point. Xanous didn't have a lot of luck with it but I'd read good things about it in Yuschak for dream control, and I think that CosmicIron has played with it. Definitely on my list.

The only thing I kept was my PS3, and I had to make sure I sold all of my controllers so that I wouldn't be able to sell the whole system (they won't take it otherwise), so I just got a new controller and dusted it off for the first time in like three years. That's part of why I'm searching for something new to play, too. (Though I do have an Xbox 360 now as well.)

Ah, so this really is like a reunion for you! Cool. I guess this means that it's been several years since you even got the chance to play Disgaea 3-4. Oh, or maybe you got those on your Xbox 360. Anyway, I'm happy for you! We're cable cutters so the PS3 is pretty much the center of our media universe.

I miss DDR, I really do. X) I used to play it all the time in school, our old orchestra teacher would always set it up in the room for the next couple school days after a concert lol. He was a cool guy....

I know! Is DDR not awesome? The fact that we had pads and a zillion of those games meant that it was well worth getting a new PS2 when Old Reliable finally crapped out on us after years of good service. And hey, you were in the orchestra! I was a talentless but well-meaning violin player back in the day. What'd you play?

I haven't played Journey, though I'm interested in it now. :O I'll have to look into that! Considering the selling my controllers thing, I really haven't played many PS3 games other than a few early titles.

I really enjoyed Journey. The game is astonishingly short and almost entirely without challenge -- perhaps 2.5 hours to complete? But it's probably one of the more moving pieces of art I've encountered in any medium. Also, great soundtrack and the multiplayer system does the impossible by pairing you up with some random schmoe and actually making you feel like you're bonding with them.

Oops, fell into shorthand there. "Civ" is short for the "Civilization" series of turn-based strategy games where you control the growth, development, and fate of a civilization. You start with a small, nomadic band of tribespeople, pick a spot to settle, and try to grow an empire over thousands of years. The classic paths to victory are to either wipe out everybody else on the planet or build an interstellar spaceship and fly to colonize Alpha Centauri. =) Fun games, but complex, engrossing, and time-consuming almost to a fault!

That does sound pretty fun! I don't play many games of that type, but I can certainly understand the draw.

Interesting... stable recurring DCs that are entirely fictitious, then? My wife and kids have very robust, well-developed DCs (as do several friends, though to a lesser extent.) But I have yet to encounter any persistent fictional DCs. That has to be really fascinating, especially if you're someone who is interested in creating fiction or any other kind of art. Being able to actually interact with a character that you're creating in a story or inhabit the setting of a story, see a civilization you imagine grow from its birth... So exciting...

Yeah, like people you don't even know in waking life, or sometimes not even people at all. It would be pretty great to be able to do that, I've often thought of trying to create an entire city or life that's stable in the dream world and just seeing the same DCs over and over again.... I've actually heard of really skilled lucid dreamers doing that kind of thing. I tend to think that it runs on the same function as creating a tulpa. It's really crazy what the mind can do, but I think that dream guides are this same kind of thing as well. The only DC I can ever recall seeing twice actually had a lot of power too, so it's an interesting thought.... The first time she used super speed and strength, and the second time she was able to multiply herself and control more than one body at once. (A personal goal!) I've always wanted to come across her again since then, but I never have. I wonder if I could incubate a meeting with her....

Wow, I was heading for a major sidebar there. Kinda had to stop myself. Anyway, I'd never thought about lucid introspection and thinking about personal issues (beyond interacting with the DCs of lost loved ones.) Lucid dreaming provides such unimaginably high levels of play and creativity that the idea of moving beyond that seems alien to me. I quite literally feel like I could fill thousands of years of dreaming with the range of things that I'd want to do. I'm the type, though, that never really gets bored. (I prefer the terms "creative and curious" to "easily amused".)

Haha, it's understandable. But I do think that anyone who sticks with lucid dreaming long enough will reach that point. I don't think it's so much that you run out of ideas but that the theme of your ideas change over time as you become more and more accustomed to the dream world, particularly the more psychedelic aspects of it. And this is just a personal thought, but I believe that the more you engage your mind in a lucid dream the more you'll see how much more incredible it can be than when you just chase your desires. Keep in mind that when I say that they use it for introspection, I mean they're still having crazier lucid dreams than I ever do. For example, I once was talking to someone about a dream they had where they were sitting in front of a wall of TV screens that each displayed different possible futures for their lives following different paths they could take, and they just sat there considering each screen one at a time and then watching them play out as a whole. That's just using their lucids for introspection and self-improvement, but it's still more incredible than my experiences!

I am not too familiar with the incubation "wheel". Is that a particular incubation approach? I'm intrigued because my incubation abilities are a bit spotty. I used to be a pretty good dream incubator when I was a kid but like so often happens, I "grew up" and let the skill atrophy long ago. I think that's the story with a lot of people. You have to wonder where we'd be if we'd only kept it up.

The wheel is a method that I've heard many people say they used as a kid, one that just came to them naturally. It would be like several different incubation scenarios would flash by on a wheel in their mind, and when they found one they liked they would just latch on to it and then that dream would happen. Totally unconnected people have reported this, I've seen it a pretty good number of times. I don't really know how one would go about pulling it off, other than just the obvious method of trying to visualize that word for word. I wish I knew more!

Ohh neat! I didn't know that melatonin had any GABAergic properties. That's a really thought-provoking theory. Now I really want to know how this works! This could explain the wildly diverging and rather unique ways that melatonin affects different people. You've got this range of people that get knocked out (me?) as well as this range of seemingly total non-responders.

And thanks, good idea on email subscriptions. I stopped using them because they were so overwhelming, but if they just kept me up to date on DJ entries it'd be perfect.

No problem. I try to mainly use them for DJs now, too.

Yeah, melatonin is pretty interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if the GABA stuff is actually a big part of it, though, because I'm resistant to most GABA drugs anyway, so it fits well. I wonder how much research they've really done on melatonin? I don't think I've really looked much into it besides that and comparisons to some synthetic melatonin receptor agonists and antagonists. It might be worth taking a closer peek at!

Yeah, it really is cool! I can think of just two examples from my own LDs right offhand. I got to play a couple seconds of Street Fighter II, but it didn't really work right and the game ended up shutting off. (Interestingly, this was a menthol dream.) The Menthol Arcade - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I had another one Christmas morning that was a completely original video game concept. It wasn't very sophisticated but I got to spend a fun few minutes playing. It had a title screen and a demo mode, too. The Subconscious Arcade - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

That's pretty awesome, especially the second one! I would love to have something like that happen. I think I might make this a lucid goal now!

Ha ha, I know... it's hilariously irrational! Totally agree on the safety. The fact that they couldn't find an LD50 for melatonin in mice speaks volumes. It's pretty amazing when scientists can't kill an animal with a substance no matter how hard they try. I do still have concerns about melatonin's effects on gonadotropin (since melatonin seems to stimulate the release of gonadotropin-inhibitory hormone) but I'm truly shocked by how safe the stuff is. It's pretty wonderful.

Other REM supressants like 5-HTP, for example, require serious care. I use that stuff on galantamine nights, and out of all supps I use, that's the one I watch by far the most carefully. Always low doses and low frequency with that stuff.

That's interesting, I didn't know about it's effects on gonadotropin. I barely ever use it though, so I'm not too worried. Of course, I've been known to take chemicals that dramatically alter hormone levels before without worrying about the consequences just to see what happens before anyway, so it probably wouldn't have changed anything even if I did take it all the time.

Neurotransmitter precursors are definitely something to be more careful with. Serotonin is not something you want to screw around with. I honestly can't even take more than like... I want to say 250 mg of 5-HTP without getting nauseous or anxious. Supposedly a lot of it is converted into serotonin peripherally, and serotonin doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier so then that would provide only physical effects. I know an easy way to get around this though, but I haven't really tried it. I am considering trying L-DOPA for dreams, though. Have you ever given that a shot?

You're very welcome, glad I could help! I actually got one of the bulky PS3s early on too, I just got a 40GB one. I had other systems and tons of games back then too, but I ended up selling them all.... That's something you're not missing out on in the drug scene. >.> The only thing I kept was my PS3, and I had to make sure I sold all of my controllers so that I wouldn't be able to sell the whole system (they won't take it otherwise), so I just got a new controller and dusted it off for the first time in like three years. That's part of why I'm searching for something new to play, too. (Though I do have an Xbox 360 now as well.)

I miss DDR, I really do. X) I used to play it all the time in school, our old orchestra teacher would always set it up in the room for the next couple school days after a concert lol. He was a cool guy....

But yeah, there's no game with better stats than a Disgaea game. I'm a completist too, so I've wasted dedicated SO much of my time playing them. The first time you hit level 9,999 or break a million in any stat is pretty satisfying. I hope you enjoy the games! Oh oh, and by the way, I always feel the need to tell people this.... In the first Disgaea, the boss of the first chapter has this setup where the map is pretty difficult, and if you lose it actually gives you a custom credits scene and asks you to start a New Game+. You by no means have to do this, you can just reset the game and face it again. And you can start the new game again if you want to rerun the first maps and level a bit more, I just think it's kind of annoying if you don't really want to do that lol. Just a heads up!

I haven't played Journey, though I'm interested in it now. :O I'll have to look into that! Considering the selling my controllers thing, I really haven't played many PS3 games other than a few early titles.

Wow!! What an excellent SRPG overview! Seriously, this is much appreciated!

If the original Disgaea game is on PSN download for only $10, that's a no-brainer pick-up to start out. Disgaea 2, same story. And it looks like Disgaea 3 and 4 are quite cheap on Blu-Ray disc (~$20) so the whole series is really accessible. This sounds like the place to start!

And yeah, we were fairly early adopters on the PS3 so we not only have backward compatibility but also a PS3 that is the size of a small refrigerator. We've got a separate PS2 as well, though, so we're well-covered. (There was no way we were letting our Dance Dance Revolution pads go to waste! )

Those stat caps are hilarious. And 4 quadrillion damage!! That is totally freaking insane! You're way, way past what a 32-bit integer can handle at that point and you're just a few orders of magnitude off of exceeding a 64-bit int. Too funny. I remember thinking that I was the man when I was putting out the max damage (99,999) on Final Fantasy X. I don't have the free time to be such a completist these days but I can sure as hell appreciate the art.

By the way, since you're a PS3 owner, did you ever play "Journey"? That game reminded me so much of a lucid dream and I was curious whether it had struck another LD'er the same way.

Anyhow, thanks again! Great info!

Wow, you are thorough! I am a #3 kinda guy, but #1 looks fun! I haven't played one like that before, but since I like to kind of chill out, relax, and think during RPGs (rather than rush through menus), it sounds like a lot of fun. I am of course also partial to games on platforms I actually own (PC, PS3, 3ds, iOS), but that's not your concern -- I'm interested in hearing about whatever you find that's super cool.

*deep breath*

Alright, I have some suggestions for you then lol. If you're looking for something relaxed and strategic, then this is definitely the type of game for you. These won't be anything I've found in my research, just stuff that I knew going in. If your PS3 is backwards compatible with PS2 games then this is going to apply to you much more, but it'll still be relevant even if it's not. (Mine isn't. T-T)

So like I said, good examples of games in the #1 style are many of those developed by Nippon Ichi Software, also shortened to NIS (or NISA for the US branch). This just happens to be my favorite game-developing company of all time. They pretty much set the bar for this type of game now, as far as I'm concerned. Just as a quick review before getting into them, the main theme of their games is that they have a strong focus on demons and netherworlds, they're usually pretty comedy-based, and despite that they usually have pretty deep or touching storylines. In addition, they have a tendency to be very over the top, with insane attack moves involving lots of explosions, summoning gods and monsters, laser beams stretching for miles, and etc. They also make use of obscenely high numbers. If you're the type of gamer who likes to max character stats, these games can be very dangerous but potentially life-affirming. This is your one warning.

So, first of all, their first three games I haven't played, and their fourth I haven't gotten that far into. The first is a PS1 game called Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure. And yes, it's a musical lol. To my understanding, though, the songs are still in Japanese even on the English version, but it's still said to be good. There's also an updated re-release for the DS. The next two are direct sequels, and they only came out in Japan. I don't know much about them, but together these three games are known as the Marl Kingdom series. The fourth game is a PS2 game called La Pucelle: Tactics. It is technically a standalone, but from what I understand it is somewhat of an indirect Marl sequel. This is somewhat common throughout all of their games, as they all take place in the same multiverse. Also, I can't say for sure about the first three, but at least from La Pucelle onward the maximum character level in these games is always 9,999. In La Pucelle, this is a hard cap, but in subsequent games this can be expanded.

So, next is the first Disgaea game, which spawned what is undoubtedly their most popular franchise. There are games that came out in between the Disgaea games, but I'm just going to cover that whole series first, because there's an interesting pattern to it. The first two, Disgaea: Hour of Darkness and Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories, were released on PS2, and then a re-release of the first called Disgaea: Afternoon of Darkness was released on the PSP (and then again on the DS, which is the only exclusion from this next bit). From that point on, the pattern continues. Disgaea 3: Absence of Justice came out on PS3, then Disgaea 2: Dark Hero Days was a revamped release on PSP, including new features that were added in D3. Disgaea 4: A Promise Unforgotten followed on PS3, and then Disgaea 3: Absence of Detention on PS Vita. That's where it ends with that so far, but they're about to come out with Disgaea Dimension 2 on PS3 in Japan. It's ridiculous, but they do update them with each release, and believe me... if you get through all of them, even just reading what kind of new features they have on the Vita D3 is enough to make you foam at the mouth. X3 It's insane. The Disgaea series is also their most egregious when it comes to numbers. In the first, the stats cap around 21 million (be warned, they will roll back over to 1 if you ever manage to push past this point, but in future releases this is fixed by placing a hard cap at 20 million). In the re-releases of each game they stay consistent, but with each actual sequel they go up. Disgaea 2's stat cap is at 40 million, and Disgaea 3's is at 99,999,999. That stays the same with the fourth one, but other variables such as weapon modifiers go up, and the maximum damage that I've seen someone do so far approaches the hundreds of quadrillions. And no, that's not a typo. It's completely absurd. The last thing I'll say about the Disgaea series for now is that the first one introduced a type of character that stays consistent through them and appears every now and then in the other games known as a prinny - a penguin that talks, says "dood" a lot, and explodes when thrown. Yes.

All of the ones I've mentioned so far use the grid-based system. The next one, Phantom Brave, was the first to use the open map wireframe system. In addition, while it is still turn-based, the turns are not based on your team vs their team (as the others are), but on the speed stat of each individual character. That means that if your SPD is significantly higher than your opponent, your character will go multiple times before they will, and vice-versa. This doesn't matter much until the postgame, though, but it does mean that you have to use your characters wisely because they won't all go at once. A big change about this game is that the story is actually fairy depressing, but this is bizarrely offset by the fact that the gameplay might be the most enjoyable (in my opinion, anyway). There are endless amounts of customization, it's great. Re-releases of Phantom Brave also came out for the Wii and the PSP. After that, there was Makai Kingdom. This is one of my personal favorites. It combines the open map element of Phantom Brave with the turn system of all the other games, and while it has the lowest stats (still over a million is possible, though) and the least customization, it introduces the use of facilities with special properties and vehicles for extra attack power in battles. It's definitely underappreciated, it's loads of fun.

Then there's Soul Nomad & The World Eaters. Actually, I should correct myself. This one has by far the lowest stats (capping at 99,999), but you command troops instead of individual characters, so you can still do massive damage. It's been a long time since I played or looked into this one though, so it's hard to remember much else about it. However, the characters... oh man. Let me put it this way. There's a character named Gig from the start of the game... and if you like video game psychopaths, you're going to have a mancrush on him. No joke, be prepared. The last one worth mentioning is Zettai Hero Project: Unlosing Ranger VS Darkdeath Evilman, though it's only on the PSP. This one is a bit different. I don't know if you ever play roguelike dungeon crawlers, but it's basically a fusion of those and the grid-based games (oh, and Soul Nomad is grid-based, too). It's a bit less forgiving, since it is a roguelike. If you die in a dungeon or quit your game without finishing one, you will lose all of your equipment and your money. It's also unique among these in that you use only a single character, but the maximum level is 999,999. I've only just started playing this one myself, so that's pretty much all I can say about it.

All of these games make very heavy use of cameos from the others, with more and more showing up as the multiverse progresses (including in the updated re-releases). They also, from Disgaea: Hour of Darkness onward (**except** for the PS2 version of Phantom Brave) use a New Game+ function, so you can carry everything over to a new cycle in the game and unlock extra features. They also, including Phantom Brave, use a reincarnation/transmigration function where you start over at level 1 but get stat boosts based on your previous level and total stored levels (usually maxing out at 69,000 or 186,000) that dramatically effect your maximum potential, and that combined with item leveling is how you hit those crazy stat caps. So it's important to get that stuff down if you want to reach those high numbers!

Alright, I'll stop there for now. The last note is that if your PS3 does work with PS2 games, then all of those will be accessible to you other than Zettai Hero Project, except the ports of course. If it isn't, you'll miss out on Phantom Brave, Makai Kingdom, and Soul Nomad, but La Pucelle and the first two Disgaea games are available for download on the PSN and do work with any PS3, and they only cost like $10 each. And believe me, I haven't even begun to tell you about these games, I've just told you everything I think you need to know to see if you think they're worth looking more into lol. Sorry for making it so long, but if you are looking for this kind of game then I don't think you'll regret taking a look at the NIS franchise! And you can always ask me for more info if you do want some!

And... the Dork Dance has been performed! And yes, I confirmed that there were no witnesses.

Hahaha, yesss. XD This made my day.

Wow, you are thorough! I am a #3 kinda guy, but #1 looks fun! I haven't played one like that before, but since I like to kind of chill out, relax, and think during RPGs (rather than rush through menus), it sounds like a lot of fun. I am of course also partial to games on platforms I actually own (PC, PS3, 3ds, iOS), but that's not your concern -- I'm interested in hearing about whatever you find that's super cool.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Review today actually! You have my commitment that if it goes well, I will perform a fist-to-shoulders Dork Dance afterward.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Hehe, sweet. Good luck with that, too!

And... the Dork Dance has been performed! And yes, I confirmed that there were no witnesses.

Ha! That's cool. Hopefully you'll be willing to share the results of your research once this process has concluded.

I most certainly can. Do you have any kind of RPG preference? Right now I'm focusing largely on ones where it's either a SRPG with a turn-based battle system (usually grid-based, I don't know if you've ever played anything developed by Nippon Ichi Software, but in that vein) or ones where it's open map but battles take place in their own instance and you can run around and switch between the character you control (while the others are computer-controlled) to do real-time attacks. I'm also fine with the ones that work just like that but are turn-based and the characters just stand around until they get their commands, they're just not my number one focus.

And in case those descriptions weren't that clear, here are some pics lol. (Just click them, I have to do URLs instead of images here because of the limit.)

Spoiler for First:

http://pspmedia.ign.com/psp/image/ar...541942-000.jpg

http://www.ztgd.com/images/screensho...isgaea2/06.jpg

http://www.cheatcc.com/imagesps3/rec...arzero_000.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ave_Battle.jpg

This last one uses an open map with a wireframe targeting system instead of a grid, but otherwise it's the same type of game.

Spoiler for Second:

http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-conten...2_battle02.jpg

http://consolecreatures.files.wordpr...ttle-skill.jpg

http://www.rpgamer.com/games/socean/...eens/so437.jpg

Spoiler for Third:

http://www.mobygames.com/images/shot...st-battles.jpg

http://gematsu.com/wp-content/upload...tage_06-23.jpg

Review today actually! You have my commitment that if it goes well, I will perform a fist-to-shoulders Dork Dance afterward.

Hehe, sweet. Good luck with that, too!

Both about video games again. >.> But to be fair, I'm in the process of researching tons of games right now to find a new RPG worth playing, so it's probably my own fault lol.

Ha! That's cool. Hopefully you'll be willing to share the results of your research once this process has concluded.

I did enjoy myself though, you should definitely do that dance if you get the chance.

Review today actually! You have my commitment that if it goes well, I will perform a fist-to-shoulders Dork Dance afterward.

Thank you! And it's not a hot streak yet, but hopefully it will be. The last couple of nights I missed my dreams because I was busy and had to get up early, but tonight I recalled some. Both about video games again. >.> But to be fair, I'm in the process of researching tons of games right now to find a new RPG worth playing, so it's probably my own fault lol.

Well, I've never had an office job before (or any kind of genuine job, for that matter), so maybe the environment just doesn't have any negative connotations for me yet. I did enjoy myself though, you should definitely do that dance if you get the chance.

And thanks again!

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Civ? I'm not familiar with it. :O

Oops, fell into shorthand there. "Civ" is short for the "Civilization" series of turn-based strategy games where you control the growth, development, and fate of a civilization. You start with a small, nomadic band of tribespeople, pick a spot to settle, and try to grow an empire over thousands of years. The classic paths to victory are to either wipe out everybody else on the planet or build an interstellar spaceship and fly to colonize Alpha Centauri. =) Fun games, but complex, engrossing, and time-consuming almost to a fault!

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

But you can tell when people are really far into it, because those people generally have stable recurring DCs with fully developed personalities and stuff like that. A lot of those kinds of dreams I've read are much more aware and involving actual life contemplation or working out emotional issues than a regular lucid dreamer's dreams. Which makes sense I guess, because isn't that where we're all headed? But I'm sure they can also do all kinds of stuff that, as you say, they just can't put into words. I can only imagine it, I hope to be there some day. I may be used to some things already, but I'm still pretty excited about lucids overall, so I understand where you're coming from.

Interesting... stable recurring DCs that are entirely fictitious, then? My wife and kids have very robust, well-developed DCs (as do several friends, though to a lesser extent.) But I have yet to encounter any persistent fictional DCs. That has to be really fascinating, especially if you're someone who is interested in creating fiction or any other kind of art. Being able to actually interact with a character that you're creating in a story or inhabit the setting of a story, see a civilization you imagine grow from its birth... So exciting...

Wow, I was heading for a major sidebar there. Kinda had to stop myself. Anyway, I'd never thought about lucid introspection and thinking about personal issues (beyond interacting with the DCs of lost loved ones.) Lucid dreaming provides such unimaginably high levels of play and creativity that the idea of moving beyond that seems alien to me. I quite literally feel like I could fill thousands of years of dreaming with the range of things that I'd want to do. I'm the type, though, that never really gets bored. (I prefer the terms "creative and curious" to "easily amused". )

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Definitely, kids have it good! I'm always jealous when I hear about someone here who was doing that stuff when they were young, especially this incubation "wheel" that seems to be a surprisingly common method. Imagine how good we could be at all this if we'd been doing it since childhood!

I am not too familiar with the incubation "wheel". Is that a particular incubation approach? I'm intrigued because my incubation abilities are a bit spotty. I used to be a pretty good dream incubator when I was a kid but like so often happens, I "grew up" and let the skill atrophy long ago. I think that's the story with a lot of people. You have to wonder where we'd be if we'd only kept it up.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Hahaha, well thank you. I was pretty surprised by it as well. I do have a high natural tolerance to melatonin though, so maybe I do just need more to totally knock out. And I've been thinking about melatonin's hypnotic effects, which are supposedly GABAergic in nature. GABA itself has been known at times to increase vividness and lucidity, so maybe there's some kind of curve where melatonin will increase your odds at high enough doses as long as it's not enough to totally prevent dreams in the first place? Hard to say, but interesting to think about nonetheless.

Ohh neat! I didn't know that melatonin had any GABAergic properties. That's a really thought-provoking theory. Now I really want to know how this works! This could explain the wildly diverging and rather unique ways that melatonin affects different people. You've got this range of people that get knocked out (me?) as well as this range of seemingly total non-responders.

And thanks, good idea on email subscriptions. I stopped using them because they were so overwhelming, but if they just kept me up to date on DJ entries it'd be perfect.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

I'm not sure if I've ever become lucid while playing a video game, I'd think I'd remember that. That sounds like it'd be really cool! What kind of lucid game(s) have you played? :O

Yeah, it really is cool! I can think of just two examples from my own LDs right offhand. I got to play a couple seconds of Street Fighter II, but it didn't really work right and the game ended up shutting off. (Interestingly, this was a menthol dream.) The Menthol Arcade - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I had another one Christmas morning that was a completely original video game concept. It wasn't very sophisticated but I got to spend a fun few minutes playing. It had a title screen and a demo mode, too. The Subconscious Arcade - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Aww, I'm touched by your concern. But don't worry, I wouldn't do something like that without knowing what I was getting into. There are human tests of effects observed at 100 mg doses. Those tests were not about lucid dreams though, so I felt it needed to be done. =P

Ha ha, I know... it's hilariously irrational! Totally agree on the safety. The fact that they couldn't find an LD50 for melatonin in mice speaks volumes. It's pretty amazing when scientists can't kill an animal with a substance no matter how hard they try. I do still have concerns about melatonin's effects on gonadotropin (since melatonin seems to stimulate the release of gonadotropin-inhibitory hormone) but I'm truly shocked by how safe the stuff is. It's pretty wonderful.

Other REM supressants like 5-HTP, for example, require serious care. I use that stuff on galantamine nights, and out of all supps I use, that's the one I watch by far the most carefully. Always low doses and low frequency with that stuff.

Ha! Those are actually some of my most advanced LD goals. (From playing too much Civ, I guess?) It makes you wonder what people at that level are doing so they won't be bored by such unambitious dream tasks. I guess, when you move beyond that kind of stuff, you probably also move a bit beyond the ability to describe your experiences in terms that people at my level can comprehend. =) The idea of these experiences becoming mundane... honestly, it's inconceivable to me. Even basic skills like flight (and lucidity itself) still make me so damn happy.

Civ? I'm not familiar with it. :O Well, one person I know like that mostly has sex in their dreams now. Or at least last I saw, they haven't updated in a long time now. But you can tell when people are really far into it, because those people generally have stable recurring DCs with fully developed personalities and stuff like that. A lot of those kinds of dreams I've read are much more aware and involving actual life contemplation or working out emotional issues than a regular lucid dreamer's dreams. Which makes sense I guess, because isn't that where we're all headed? But I'm sure they can also do all kinds of stuff that, as you say, they just can't put into words. I can only imagine it, I hope to be there some day. I may be used to some things already, but I'm still pretty excited about lucids overall, so I understand where you're coming from.

That's so right. It reminds me of the way that kids view the world vs. the way that adults do. What I notice when observing my kids is how much of the world they pick up on, question, and examine when I'm stuck in some old groove that I wore into my life as part of "growing up". Like you said, novelty is very important for keeping yourself motivated and engaged in anything. Kids are experts at making their own novelty out of what they see around them.

I've wondered from time to time why most people are far better dreamers when they're children than when they're adults. A lot of kids will incubate dreams and even lucid dream without anyone even telling them that it's a thing. They're fortunate enough to have never picked up on the bad attitudes that adults develop about dreams and to hell with anyone who tries to tell them they can't fly. =)

Definitely, kids have it good! I'm always jealous when I hear about someone here who was doing that stuff when they were young, especially this incubation "wheel" that seems to be a surprisingly common method. Imagine how good we could be at all this if we'd been doing it since childhood!

Yeah, I was most impressed!! That kept me occupied for my entire WBTB. Great stuff, and an excellent segue into the LD I had later that morning. I'm 100% sure this is why you and some other DV folks popped up in that LD. That was a first for me!

Glad I could help! I'm still envious of that, I really want that to happen to me! I really just want to see what kinds of crazy stuff people will say. X)

thanks for the tip i will take note of that. i might do the 30mgs this weekend when i dont have to get up early.lol im not as frealess.

All right, nice work on the back to back LDs! I'm not going to jinx you by calling this a hot streak. Even though you're totally starting a hot streak.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

I opened the door and there was a hallway in it, and as I turned around and it left my sight while I was closing the door, I willed it to lead to some kind of work office... I reached out to take it from her but she pulled it back and started telling me something, and I think it was about something I had to do to get the paper

LOL. Going into an office and performing bizarre rituals in order to obtain office supplies? I'm already living the dream.

I'd have never chosen to have a lucid dream in an office setting, but it sounds like you managed to have a very good time. I'll be sure to inject some additional fun into my life by allowing myself one of those dorky little fist-to-the-shoulders dances if the next performance review goes well.

Cool dreams!