NyxCC

The heat is causing me major sleep issues too. I had to resort to taking 5-HTP to try and help me get to sleep; not to LD!

I'm intrigued by G. I hear it helps/works best with Choline in the system. I wouldn't mind trying it myself one time. (I just need to justify the hassle of ordering it and the expense.)
Do you (normally) get good results yourself?

Lol regarding the phone and the DC's - glad you found it.

Cool, Nyx, is this your first G trial? (I noticed that your "galantamine" tag has just this one entry.)

I've often faced the temptation of going for it with G even when I have a very late natural WBTB. My results have been kind of similar. I like to schedule at least an hour of potential wakefulness, plus another 2 hours or so for dreaming if I can get away with it. If I miss that, lately I've taken to just putting off the G until the next morning. Sometimes I put it aside for several days when I just can't get the timing right!

Congratulations on still getting lucid in spite of the insomnia! I was amused by the DC claiming the phone was "outside".

@Highlander, if you have any interest in G, I highly recommend the Yuschak book "Advanced Lucid Dreaming" as a reference. The PDF is on lulu.com for only $5, I believe, and it's a very good guide on how to use galantamine.

And yes, since G is an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, it prevents the breakdown of acetylcholine. (G does other cool stuff too that's a little too complex to go into.) So yeah, it works best in conjunction with some choline and B5. My galantamine caps actually contains choline citrate and B5, and I throw in some alpha-GPC for my base trigger. Sometimes I'll add some additional B5 (pantothenic acid) before bed as well, b ut that's just extra.

I'm really surprised G wasn't a big lucidity bomb for you! Has to be the late WBTB.

I'm really surprised G wasn't a big lucidity bomb for you! Has to be the late WBTB.

Yeah, though I can remember a lot of early G experiences like this where I'd deal with insomnia. What finally worked for me was to just have no expectations beyond getting lots of cool hypnagogia and just relaxing. Plus, trying to really hit that perfect "not too late" WBTB.

200mg of L-theanine was also a nice assistance for me, although it didn't work very well for Xanous.

Thanks for the info CL, I will look into it.

I did read something in Yushak's book about supplements in which he refers to G. He obviously used it with Choline.
I think afterwards (please correct me if I'm wrong, or misinterpreted it due to foggy memory?) he often used a nootropic (Piracetam) to 'mop-up' any excess Acytelcholine to avoid problems, presumably tolerance and desentiziation.

It seems like a lot of supplements that you cannot take it on too regular basis. I think yourselves' have a 'G' night once a week?

@ Highlander

Yeah, it can be pretty tough to ld in the heat. You have a hard time falling asleep and when you do, it's usually in some sort of oblivion. 5- HTP used to give me nice DILDs very often at some point. Nowadays, it only increases vividness, and simiarly to SJW (recently) has been causing too much sleepiness. I think it is partially because my willpower to WBTB has been weakened.

I have a nice combo of lecithin (500mg per pill) and light dosage of B-complex including B5 that I took with G. It targets memory and concentration in general and should do the trick similarly to choline.

@ CL

Yes, it was. Picking the right day to ld has become quite of a challenge with all kinds of distractions, and picking the right timing to WBTB even more so. I just couldn't wait anymore, the weekend is usually quite noisy as well so it had to be during the week. I definitely have to keep track of next trials, wakefulness levels and tech used to determine some optimal time to take it. I think I will go for plus 4 or plus 4.5 hrs and also be sure to get some good sleep the previous night. I also must set an alarm because my natural wakes have been very unreliable recently.

Congratulations on still getting lucid in spite of the insomnia! I was amused by the DC claiming the phone was "outside".

Thanks! I was making great plans about extracting info from the dreamworld, and while I generally believe it is possible, the phone experiment with DCs has left me a bit confused. Those DCs are so untrustworthy! Still very happy I managed to recall and find my phone one way or another.

@ Xanous

Lol! Me too. My expectations for this G trial were quite high, I was daydreaming about it. I think it will take some time to adjust to it, but will get there eventually!

@ Xanous

Lol! Me too. My expectations for this G trial were quite high, I was daydreaming about it. I think it will take some time to adjust to it, but will get there eventually!

You might just have to play with dosage a bit. I know when I started I was going with only 2MG because the insomnia was so bad. Now it's a full 8 with little insomnia.

Originally Posted by NyxCC

Thanks! I was making great plans about extracting info from the dreamworld, and while I generally believe it is possible, the phone experiment with DCs has left me a bit confused. Those DCs are so untrustworthy! Still very happy I managed to recall and find my phone one way or another.

Yeah, I've found that different DCs have vastly different levels of intelligence, cooperativeness, and cluefulness.

I agree with the idea of playing with your WBTB time until you get the length just right. As Xanous mentioned, the "insomnia dose" tends to rise as you get more experience with G. I don't think that this is down to any kind of desensitization, either -- I know that a lot of my initial troubles were down to excitement and a little bit of fear. Even though I'd done lots of research into G, it was the first real "drug" that I'd taken for lucid dreaming purposes. That created a sense of combined excitement and anxiety that made it a little tougher to sleep.

Originally Posted by highlander

I think afterwards (please correct me if I'm wrong, or misinterpreted it due to foggy memory?) he often used a nootropic (Piracetam) to 'mop-up' any excess Acytelcholine to avoid problems, presumably tolerance and desentiziation.

It seems like a lot of supplements that you cannot take it on too regular basis. I think yourselves' have a 'G' night once a week?

Right, I took piracetam after G attempts up until very recently when my supply ran out. The supplier I had been using before stopped making recent FDA decisions have made piracetam more difficult to obtain. (A pretty absurd situation, but it is the reality in the United States at the moment.) It's still quite possible to get it, but just makes it not so easy to swing onto Amazon and pick some up.

Yes, I generally have G once every 5-9 days. I always take a minimum of 96 hours between attempts to avoid the risk of desensitization of my ACh receptors. I've not yet experienced any desensitization but I've only stopped taking piracetam afterwards in the past couple weeks. So we'll see.

Thanks for the info all you guys. I think G could end up on my 'to do' list, but I will have to sharpen up my recall a bit.

@ NyxCC.
I tend to be a bit 'hit and miss' with 5-HTP.

@ CL
Thanks again for the info. Yes I did hear that about Piracetam. I dunno if any other of the racetams would work?

Cool, Highlander. One thing that's perhaps worth mentioning since you brought up recall is that G typically boosts recall as well as lucidity. This is another effect of high acetylcholine levels in the brain, and probably at least part of why it's easier to remember dreams that occur during REM, when ACh levels are high. ACh levels are high in the morning and very low at the beginning of the night, when recall tends to not be quite as good.

I've heard that it's possible the other racetams would work but I haven't looked into this much. The studies I was relying on were done with piracetam.

@ CL.
You're certainly making an excellent job in convincing me on the whole idea.

Thanks for the tips guys! I hope I get used to the dosage over time as the G I've got is 8mg capsules. Well, there might be some creative ways to half the amount in each capsule but will see about that in case I get heavy insomnia in next trials. So far the impression I have from G is that it has a similar effect as caffeine on the way I am falling asleep and feeling the lds (instability due to wakefulness). The images/dreamlets that I got, however, were much clearer and sharper than the ones I usually get. Looking forward to getting further next time.

Even though I'd done lots of research into G, it was the first real "drug" that I'd taken for lucid dreaming purposes. That created a sense of combined excitement and anxiety that made it a little tougher to sleep.

Yes, I have similar issues, especially since this is something new to me and I am not sure what to expect physically and mentally.

This is another effect of high acetylcholine levels in the brain, and probably at least part of why it's easier to remember dreams that occur during REM, when ACh levels are high. ACh levels are high in the morning and very low at the beginning of the night, when recall tends to not be quite as good.

I have to read more on ACh levels. I guess like everything else in our bodies they fluctuate over the day. It is very interesting that they are low in the beginning of the night and higher later on. This may indeed account for differences in REM/NREM and recall issues. From my experiences so far, I totally believe that it is possible to ld in NREM and even remember some dreams that occur there, yet it remains a challenge to consistently do this. This may lead to future experimentation, which will include a mix of meditation techniques, induction techs and some mild supps.

Thanks for the tips guys! I hope I get used to the dosage over time as the G I've got is 8mg capsules. Well, there might be some creative ways to half the amount in each capsule but will see about that in case I get heavy insomnia in next trials. So far the impression I have from G is that it has a similar effect as caffeine on the way I am falling asleep and feeling the lds (instability due to wakefulness). The images/dreamlets that I got, however, were much clearer and sharper than the ones I usually get. Looking forward to getting further next time.

I don't want to steal Xanous' thunder, so I can let him tell you his creative solution for cutting his G caps in half. What I've read some people do is just pour half the powder into water and mix it, either just with water or some kind of flavoring. Apparently it tastes kind of... lemony? Can't vouch for that, though. 8mg caps may be a little heavy to start off with, so it's something to consider. Plus G is kind of expensive so if you can get away with a half dose, that's a good thing.

I don't want to steal Xanous' thunder, so I can let him tell you his creative solution for cutting his G caps in half. What I've read some people do is just pour half the powder into water and mix it, either just with water or some kind of flavoring. Apparently it tastes kind of... lemony? Can't vouch for that, though. 8mg caps may be a little heavy to start off with, so it's something to consider. Plus G is kind of expensive so if you can get away with a half dose, that's a good thing.

Noted. G lemonade? That sounds tempting!

Lol, I have no idea what Xanous' method is but I was thinking maybe getting a capsule from another supp that can be consumed with water and just putting half the G contents there (in advance as you don't want to be too involved in Alchemy preparations during WBTB). No wonder I have been dreaming of preparing strange lucidity blends and ginger beer recently.

Originally Posted by NyxCC

Lol, I have no idea what Xanous' method is but I was thinking maybe getting a capsule from another supp that can be consumed with water and just putting half the G contents there (in advance as you don't want to be too involved in Alchemy preparations during WBTB). No wonder I have been dreaming of preparing strange lucidity blends and ginger beer recently.

Sure, that would work! They sell empty capsules, too. Xanous' method was to pour out the powder onto a plate, divide it roughly in two, and then lick one part of it off of the plate. I'm looking forward to hearing what G recipes you come up with! =)

BTW, here's something that Thomas Yuschak had to say about choline sources and galantamine, and it relates to lecithin. (Just happened to stumble across this today.)

Originally Posted by Thomas Yuschak

Secondly, although lecithin is an efficient source of choline, it is not ideal for lucid dreaming. It takes too long to reach peak plasma levels. Peak plasma estimates are between 2-6 hours for lecithin. I also have experimented with lecithin with no luck. Choline Bitartrate (choline) works best. When you hear statements like “choline does not cross the blood brain barrier efficiently” you have to take them with a grain of salt. Choline does enter the brain efficiently when the brain is low on choline (and acetylcholine). This is precisely the case during deep sleep. This fact coupled with the fact that the time to peak plasma level is about an hour makes this form of choline superior to lecithin.

Do your galantamine tabs contain any additional source of choline? Mine (Galantamind) contain choline citrate. In addition to that, I throw in Alpha-GPC, and sometimes choline bitartrate.

Xanous' method was to pour out the powder onto a plate, divide it roughly in two, and then lick one part of it off of the plate.

Man, this really is Xanous style!

BTW, here's something that Thomas Yuschak had to say about choline sources and galantamine, and it relates to lecithin. (Just happened to stumble across this today.)

Do your galantamine tabs contain any additional source of choline? Mine (Galantamind) contain choline citrate. In addition to that, I throw in Alpha-GPC, and sometimes choline bitartrate.

The ones I've got are G only. Hmm, that info is quite interesting. And oh, no, another supp to buy. I have so many bottles lying around, it becomes obvious I have some kind of a problem.

The way I see this going is 1) schedule an earlier WBTB 2) half the dose if not too messy and avoid looking weird 3) if I haven't bought choline, I will go with lecithin pre bed? I guess I could alternate between the two to see if there are any difference in quality once I am able to sleep after G (and sleep properly in general).

The ones I've got are G only. Hmm, that info is quite interesting. And oh, no, another supp to buy. I have so many bottles lying around, it becomes obvious I have some kind of a problem.

Ha! Yeah, there was a distant view of our pantry in this photo that Wife posted on Facebook and she was like, "This is such a cute photo of [R], but I hope nobody sees all that stuff!"

Yeah, those plans sound good! My ideal G WBTBs seem to be in the 4.5-5 hour range, roughly speaking, but I've pushed it in either direction, sometimes with success, sometimes not. And yeah, if you don't get the bitartrate, you could try the lecithin pre-bed OR try it both pre-bed and at WBTB. I've taken high doses of lecithin before, so I'm at a point where I wouldn't worry about doing this. I'm not sure where you are with lecithin as a supplement, so go with what makes sense and is comfortable for you.