Thread: Azaleaj's workbook

Welcome to the DILD workbooks Azaleaj! What a great write up of your LD experiences and goals - I love the enthusiasm! I will quote some of your intro post so that I may respond more thoroughly.

Originally Posted by Azaleaj

I've had a couple of lucid dreams a year my who(le) life and consider them some of my peak experiences. About 5 months ago I decided to learn more about them and try to induce them. It took me about 3 weeks to induce my first one. Since then I've had an average of 2 a week which I'm thrilled about! At first they lasted only a few seconds but they have gotten longer. I've had a few last 20 plus minutes and they average 5-6 mins.

I really connect with what you are saying about them being peak experiences. It sounds like you had those couple of LD's per year your whole life naturally which is awesome! I think that puts you at an advantage and you seem to be advancing very nicely in a relatively short amount of time since pursuing intentionally inducing them. We have some similarities. If you are interested in my background in LD'ing it is found on my profile page under "about me." It would not be a roadmap at all since I honestly believe everyone needs to find their own path which you are already doing quite well!!

Techniques: I use WBTB staying up for about 15 mins and doing the MILD technique. I also do occasional reality checks and read a lot about LDs. I use galantamine with choline a couple of times a week as well which I find helpful.

WBTB is very powerful…so is the galantamine&choline combo. It is recommended to wait at least 3 days between uses but it sounds like you are doing that. When I am on a G+C kick I tend to save it for once a week or once every several weeks.

Experiments: I usually have an experiment or goal lined up ahead of time and almost always remember them. Things I've done/tried...

This is so helpful to have it lined up ahead of time. Congratulations on some very interesting results as well!

I'm excited to hear any feedback about ways to stabilize or bring the dream back when your vision fades. I'm also curious about how to visit certain locales. I've done it once with success by stating the scene would be beyond this wall and it was. I'll try that again next time. I'm also
curious why my sense of taste and smell are absent.

I think expectation is a huge part of stabilization, bringing the dream back and getting dream controls to work. Even though you are not really a newbie, after you finish reading to the end of this post, check out the "Something for every newbie" link in my signature. Also, in one of the posts further into that thread I talk about my approach to stabilizing dreams. I now refer to it as pre-DEILD where you don't need to exit dreaming at all before going back in, in many cases. The great thing about having a fade into "the void" is that it is often easier to go wherever you want from there by imagining that you are starting to see the place you want to go…you are starting to hear the seagulls calling and the waves rolling in…you are starting to feel the sand under your feet…you are starting to smell the salty air. So on that last one…smell, although it may be a little less prevalent, you can definitely experience it in dreamland and I think expectation is a big key there which goes back to my link. Try to not get frustrated if it doesn't happen right away. Same thing with taste but it seems a little easier to experience. Besides the above method of changing locales I also like the closed eye teleport where you think first where you want to go as clearly as possible, with as many senses as possible and tell yourself that when you blink your eyes you will reopen them to the new locale. Others have success with peeling open a scene from the current scene by "finding an opening" somewhere in the scene and peeling it back or going through the opening…down into the rabbit hole.

Let me know if you have any questions about any of that and welcome once again!

A hearty welcome, Azaleaj, we're excited to have you here!

I'll echo what fogelbise said about waiting 3 days in between galantamine uses. Yuschak (author of "Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The Power of Supplements") recommends taking galantamine no more often than once every 4 days (so that would be one day on, three days off).

You are doing extremely well with a nice reliable LD frequency, so I'd say keep doing what you're doing!

For stabilization, I tend to be in the camp of "don't worry about it:" the best stabilization is just thoroughly enjoying your dream. Having a big set of goals you want to accomplish, both big and small, and just keep moving through this list, going from one to another, maybe with quick "just look around" breaks in between. I find my LDs tend to last as long as I have things immediately on my mind that I want to do. Once finishing them, the dreams usually fade or transition to other dreams (losing lucidity unless I'm quite vigilant).

Goals can be as simple as "I want to see what's around that corner / beyond that tree". So you can look around the dreamscape to help give you ideas of things you want to accomplish immediately.

Remaining in motion at least slightly with the dream body tends to help. It's like the common recommendation of spinning to save a fading dream: you keep your senses grounded in the dream realm when you're moving.

If you do feel the dream slipping away, it's good to affirm to yourself that "I'm still dreaming, and wherever I end up next, I'm still dreaming." Many times dream fades are actually just transitions, not real wakings, to new scenes, perhaps with a visit through "the void" (a black or white empty place with generally nothing visible, where [I think] we tend to go when our dreaming mind is taking a quick break and readying the next dream environment). Develop the firm conviction that the dream is *not* ending, that it continues. If sometimes visuals do not reoccur right away, start pretending that they have occurred. This is a very powerful dream control technique -- "fool" yourself into believing that just what you want to happen has in fact happened (even if it really hasn't yet). Often times this is all you need for the dream control to succeed.

Also, if you like you can check out the "interesting/informative links" message at the top of the DILD class folder, there are links to a number of very educational discussions, some quite short, some quite lengthy. I also have a few links in my signature which you might find interesting or informative.

Good luck and let us know if you have any questions! You can use your workbook to track progress, make goals, and help keep yourself accountable to them. Have great dreams!

edit: Oh, on the subject of bringing back a dream that's faded: if you've actually wakened, or think you have wakened (and aren't still dreaming and in "the void"), the best way to return to the dream is to remain physically still, and keep your mind very dream-y, and lightly consider the dream you just woke from. Replay the recent scenes in your mind, but do it "quietly," while you do it allow yourself to drift off back to sleep. Very often you will return to that dream or to a new one.

Thank you for the feedback! I read the links and they were helpful. I set the intention to not stress out about the dream ending and to focus instead on practicing the DEILD technique if the dream fades.

I set several goals for last night including: creating a ball of healing energy and applying it to sore shoulder, tasting/smelling and developing this sense, meditating-asking if there is a god or higher power, kissing a male DC. I also wanted to conjure a dream scene I've experienced before and to ask a whale what it represents or means to me.

I did WBTB and MILD technique for about 10 minutes after 4.5 hours of sleep. I attempted to have a WILD as I went to sleep but fell asleep quickly instead.

RESULTS
I had a med length dream that I don't really remember. I was eating something and thinking about lucid dreaming which caused me to become lucid. I remembered my goal to experiment with flavor and smell. I was eating a cream pie, really noting the flavor and texture. The dry crust didn't really have and flavor but the cream part had a little sweet creamy flavor. I was really enjoying the texture stuffing it down. The dream faded and I felt I was almost awake in my bed. I remembered to stay still and picture myself back in the dream. It didn't feel like it would work as I felt I was awake. I stuck with it and in about 5-7 seconds a new scene formed.

I found myself hunkered down on a road watching a scene form. I saw a city street with a blue sky. It was sort of sketchy and vague. (Lost part of it here) I'm then sitting on a bar stool in a bar. Other DCs are around me. I feel introverted and feel the dream is fragile. I decide to ask if there is a god. I ask and a strong adrenaline high energy feeling forms. I attempt to then meditate focusing on the quiet feeling within (how i meditate while awake). I feel very peaceful and good and the dream fades. I again focus on staying still and picturing myself back in the dream. I'm pretty sure I'm awake in bed but stay still.

A new scene forms. I find myself on the floor in a room. I see a guy and remember my goal to try kissing. He kisses me, it feels amazing and I start to wake up. I remember thinking maybe I should wake up so I remember all this. I'm not sure if I allowed myself to wake or if I attempted another DEILD without success.

I awoke and went over the dream without writing it down. I went back to sleep for a few more hours. I wish I had written it down then as some parts are vague now. I had 4 other dreams I remember with minimal clarity.

I'm excited I remembered my goals and succeeded with the DEILD technique but a little disappointed that each time I attempted a goal the dream faded quickly. I did forget to stabilize. I usually rub my hands together or fall down or jump off of something. Maybe my goals were a little ambitious causing too much excitement or maybe I was so focused on practicing the DEILD technique my dream helped me do this by fading. The dreams felt very fragile and ready to fade at any moment. I'll do the WBTB and Mild techniques again tonight.

That's some great, fast success there! Congrats! DEILD is considered by many the easiest way to LD. If the conditions are right (generally, catching the fact that you're waking from a dream right while it's happening, when you're close to another REM, this is easiest of course when waking from a lucid dream), it's like magic how you can so easily return to the dream. Having this experience should remove all doubt about this, so next time you just remain calmly confident that you will return to the dream. It's sort of academic whether it was really a DEILD or just a FA, but that's not what matters: you can cover all the bases with the "relaxed, dreamy mindset" and return to the dream.

As for having some difficulty staying in the scene, that's a matter of practice. Or, it may just have been that your REM for that period was over and it was just time for a waking. Or like you mentioned, you got overly excited. Your response to reach for quiet meditation practice in the dream was spot on, probably the best thing to do. Also, remembering and doing your dream goal of kissing a DC: enjoy the dream, have the experiences you want to have. Maintaining a balance takes practice: you want to be a bit involved, yet a bit detached, keeping that background thought that "this is a dream, if the scene transitions, I will maintain lucidity, it will still be a dream, I will return to the dream" takes practice.

Having this success with DEILDing should also help you with LD stabilization, simply because you needn't worry about waking now: build firm confidence that you can weather any transitions and lead right back into the dream.

In fact, some experienced lucid dreamers will detect the approaching fading of a dream and prepare themselves mentally for a DEILD: they'll do something like purposefully "lying down and going to sleep" in the dream and holding light lucid awareness through the transition and right back into the dream (or a new one).

One gotcha: a temptation after having an experience like this is to try and "force" it in the future (I am frequently guilty of this!). The quiet, relaxed, dreamy mindset is key, "trying to make it happen" can paradoxically prevent it from happening. A meditative mindset really helps here. Just let it happen! Keep in mind the username of a DV member: "RelaxAndDream" - this really is the key. Relax, enjoy. Stabilization will work itself out if you keep a connection with that meditative center that you've built.

Congrats again and here's to many more successes!

^I completely agree with what FM said. And Awesome! Congratulations on getting some taste working, becoming lucid and achieving DEILDs!! Attempting goals should have nothing to do with the dream fading, so I wouldn't give that another thought. Goals and especially having goals you still want to do can have the effect of extending your dreams, so just the opposite…and like FM said, you know you can always go back in!

I've been so stressed about the election I have not been able to focus on dreaming this week. I'm back at it tonight though. I plan on doing WBTB and the MILD technique. I want to remember to rub my hands together, jump off of something (helps me stabilize) and grab onto something if the dream fades hopefully using the DEILD technique.
My dream goals are to talk to a DC, listen to music, and seek out a whale and ask what it means or represent or why I dream about them so often.

I did my usual LD routine waking after 4.5 hours of sleep and doing the MILD technique. I too 7 mg of galantamine and 500 choline and attempted a WILD as I fell asleep while listening to the fan.

I didn't have a WILD but I vaguely remember having sleep paralysis, struggling to move before realizing what was happening then relaxing and loosing my fear. I'm not sure if I went directly into feeling myself in my bed with my husband trying to hug and kiss me. I thought I was awake but realized I was dreaming as he is sick and probably wouldn't be doing that, I became lucid for a moment.

I then had a fairly long dream about trying to find a quiet place to sleep so I could attempt lucid dreaming. I tried sleeping in my dad's living room and he cheerfully wanted me to come to breakfast, I then found a dirt road where a bike race was happening around me. I moved to the side of the road where a guy was dumping garbage into a dumpster a few feet from my body...that wasn't going to work. I got up and walked over to edge of the road which was at a cliff overlooking the ocean. It started to rain heavily as I looked about 60 feet down into the calm water and saw a baby seal, polar bear and various ocean life.

I realized I was dreaming spontaneously. I then tried to remember my goals but my memory was poor. I thought, I should try to do some math, as I've heard this can anchor the dream. I said, 2+2=4, but that was as far as that went ha ha. I then flew up over the ocean without much thought. It was very dark and fuzzy and I may have rubbed my arm to stabilize. I did call out. "Increase lucidity" or something like that but that didn't help. (I've tried this maybe 4-5 times but it's never worked). I forgot to look at my hands which does work most of the time.

I remembered I wanted to find a whale. This felt scary but I flew down closer to the water as I really want to do this. Dream is vague here. I think I just flew back up and landed on a sidewalk on land. Visuals are better now. It's night and I'm standing along the side of a building.

I remember my goal of wanting to investigate dream figures more closely. I see two people sitting in the yard and approach them. As I get closer they get smaller and seem to become like wooden dolls with limbs connected by strings. I touch their skin and it is hard and an unnatural color. They don't seem alive or aware. When I think this I get the impression that the second one is sad that I thought this and his head slumps forward in sadness.

I get up and start walking. I see a scary scene of nightmarish figures under the steps. It's cob webby, dark and dirty. My first impulse is to flee but I remember I've read I should embrace or try to understand scary DCs. With this I go up to a scary guy and I vaguely remember putting my arms around the whole scene. Nothing happened and I'm again walking along the pavement and up some steps. I think to myself that this dream seems kind of fake and lacking depth. I then think I should try to have sex.

I go inside the house and find a guy who seems kind of wooden like the others but becomes more real as I talk with him. We start to get sexual and I wake up after a few minutes. I stay perfectly still for a min or two attempting a DEILD. I wake up instead and go over the dream in my head. After this I have a regular dream about being on a journey and finding a mall with beautiful waterfalls coming from the walls that I bathe in. It feels amazingly healing.

I was happy to remember some of my goals. So I've tried to find a whale 3-4 x now and have gotten close but have not done it yet, maybe I'm a little too scared for some reason. I find DCs fascinating and am perplexed by the zombie like nature of some of them. I'm also fascinated by dream symbols and scenes and why certain ones present themselves. Do you think the dream story is still trying to show us things when lucid. It seems the story and purpose of the dream would fall apart once we become lucid since we aren't really participating any more but certain elements continue around us. I guess nobody knows for sure and that is why we explore and experiment. I feel more full of questions and confusion (not a bad thing) the more I lucid dream. Any suggestions for experiments or goals going forward? Any suggested dream interpretation books? I've read a few but none seem to really speak to me.

Congrats on approaching the scary figures, remembering goals and on all of the sections of lucidity!

Originally Posted by Azaleaj

I was happy to remember some of my goals. So I've tried to find a whale 3-4 x now and have gotten close but have not done it yet, maybe I'm a little too scared for some reason. I find DCs fascinating and am perplexed by the zombie like nature of some of them. I'm also fascinated by dream symbols and scenes and why certain ones present themselves. Do you think the dream story is still trying to show us things when lucid. It seems the story and purpose of the dream would fall apart once we become lucid since we aren't really participating any more but certain elements continue around us. I guess nobody knows for sure and that is why we explore and experiment. I feel more full of questions and confusion (not a bad thing) the more I lucid dream. Any suggestions for experiments or goals going forward? Any suggested dream interpretation books? I've read a few but none seem to really speak to me.

For the possible fear of approaching a whale, have you tried looking at nice videos of whales, perhaps a search query like "beautiful whale." This can both potentially incubate whale dreams but it could also help you feel more comfortable about approaching one in a dream. When lucid, just remind yourself that there is really nothing to fear. The times fear pops up (mostly thinking crazy thoughts about dreaming while awake) I remind myself confidently of this and try to put forward a "pfft…whatever" dismissive attitude towards any dream-based fears.

For the zombie-like DC's, if you try to expect them to be more helpful, life-like, or whatever you would like, it often has a good effect.

I do think the dream story still tries to show us things when we are lucid, at least at times, and perhaps something different that what it was showing us before we became lucid.

Suggestions for goals going forward would be to create some fun ones, some that you get really excited about them when just thinking about them.

I haven't read any dream interpretation books but there are some people that hang around occasionally in the dream interpretation section of DV that might have some suggestions or you might look at something like the best reviewed ones on Amazon.

Thank you for the advise! I will try looking at and thinking about (friendly pleasant whales). I'll also try picturing and asking for more interactive DCs. I didn't realize there was a dream interpretation section on here. The dream stories and symbols really fascinate me. It does seem the story maybe switches gear or works a little differently once we are lucid. I know I still see strange creatures and scenes happening around me, I don't suddenly have a blank canvas. I'm guessing that is how it works for most people. I guess it's one of those mysteries we may not be able to understand fully. I wonder if any research has been done about how dream scenes and symbols change once lucid. I'll have to search around.

I'd like to ask FryingMan what he thinks on this at some point (he is currently swamped with some things IWL). He seems to frequently have a very strong connection to, and presence in, his regular dreams which would allow a better one to one comparison with the lucid state. I'm talking about those non-lucid dreams where you wake up and you feel like you were just there in another realm, that felt just as real and vivid (or even more vivid) than the waking realm. Let me know if you find any of that research, I'd be interested!

In an issue of the Lucid Dream Experience magazine (June 2002) there is an article that questions whether lucid dreams can be interpreted the same way non lucid dreams can be (or can be attempted to be interpreted.) The article mostly just discusses the question and suggests further research into the subject. The lucidity institute also has an ongoing experiment where they are having people describe lucid and non lucid content. I entered a few dreams into the survey.

No lucid dreams this week (yet), I've been a little down this week and am having some trouble motivating myself:/

Interesting, thank you. I have seen that magazine. I think that is the publication where Robert Waggoner often contributes. I will have to check it out.

I hear you. I experience trouble motivating myself from time to time. It tends to lead to too many days without a lucid dream which has the effect of bringing back my motivation. It gets me doing what I know I need to do in order to increase my chances of becoming lucid.

Two nights of lucid dreams this week.
Dream 1. I become lucid spontaneously. I'm looking at a grassy undulating back yard noticing the texture of the grass. I decide to just explore the scene and only look at objects close to me. I walk 10 ft or so and the scene fades. A scene forms and it is dark, empty and bleak. I wonder in the dream if this reflects my mood recently, (mom died a few months ago and now this sad election). ( right after she died I had a very powerful and vivid lucid dream of trees blowing in hurricane force winds, a rough and wild ocean and then I've dreamed several times of intense rain) none of these felt particularly sad in the dream but when looking back they seem to reflect emotions in a symbolic way.
Dream 2. I'm spontaneously lucid. I see a group of women in a circle laughing and having fun. I remember I wanted to search for a dream guide. I go up to the people to assess whether one could be a guide. No, I don't think so though I note they are more animated than my usual DCs. I then see a DC crouched down eyeing me off to the side. I feel a little scared but not enough to react. I then wake up.

Dream 3 3 nights later. I became spontaneously lucid after dreaming of frogs and lizard that I want to protect then I was bitten by a lizard. Once lucid I notice I'm surrounded by snow. I think to smell and taste the snow that has some dirty looking patches. I note a savory type smell and a dry dusty texture (no real flavor). I then try to fly and float up a few feet. It was somewhat challenging which is a first for me in a LD. Vision fades so I rub my arm a wait for my vision to return which it did after a few seconds. Vision is now blurry and it's very dark out. This is really common for me for some reason. I decide to do something sexual with a DC I see. I then wake up.

I was pleased to smell something for the first time in a LD and maybe in any dream. These dreams felt fragile and ready to end quickly which they did despite having semi solid goals and rubbing my arm. Maybe I'll try spinning and looking at my hand next time to solidify or lengthen the the dream.

Originally Posted by Azaleaj

I was pleased to smell something for the first time in a LD and maybe in any dream. These dreams felt fragile and ready to end quickly which they did despite having semi solid goals and rubbing my arm. Maybe I'll try spinning and looking at my hand next time to solidify or lengthen the the dream.

Congratulations on the LD's and activating your sense of smell! Now that you've experienced that you know that you can do it again and that you can also do the same with taste. You might try expecting a certain taste before tasting something just to activate your sense of taste some more and then before long you can just be surprised by the tastes you experience.

Definitely try to not worry about stability and instead repeat affirmations during the day and/or during WBTB like "I have long lucid dreaming journeys" (leaving "stability" out of the phrasing will help keep your mind off of stability and thus worries of stability) and have that mindset when lucid. Sometimes you are just lucid at the end of a REM cycle when the dream will end anyway. It is possible to have success extend them with strong expectation and focus. I am also convince that I have been able to surf the period between REM cycles staying aware, but only after 7+ hours of sleep when the REM cycles are much closer together. Sleep Yoga masters can reportedly do it even in the early stages of the night. What I do I call pre-DEILD, but you might want to start with standard DEILD. Let me know if you want more info on pre-DEILD. I have to be at the top of my game to make it work but regular ole DEILD can be quite easy once you get the hang of it. I like this description of DEILD in about the last third of the original post found here: http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...wbtb-more.html

Thank you fogelbise. Yes I am interested in the pre DEILD technique. I had success on two night with the DEILD technique but not this week for some reason.

I've been working on having a WILD this last week. I attempted right at bedtime and did get some somewhat clear images. I've tried a couple of times after WBTB as well and just can't seem to stay conscious. Today I tried drinking half a cup of coffee and going back to bed. I felt wired but then fell asleep with no awareness. I awoke several times but no LDs and I only remembered one short, regular dream. (I really want to learn this skill!!) It was so effortless the second time I tried it, (my one successful WILD), not sure what I did right?

The night before last I did not do any LD techniques except a few RCs and a quick meditation before bed. I had a very long vivid and stable dream about being at a festival and going on a date. I became spontaneously lucid and immediately shouted to the sky, show me something amazing. I then felt the dream might end so I started spinning. I did this for maybe 5 seconds before I woke up. I stayed still and tried to re enter the dream but it didn't work. I'm happy I had 4 LD s (3nights) this week but they were all very short. I can't help but feel a little worried that this is my new normal. I try not to focus on that expectation though as my LDs always seem to surprise me.

I bought the book by Andrew Holecek on dream yoga. I'm also going to start meditating regularly again and doing mindfulness (check ins) throughout the day. Maybe this will help with the WILDs.

I'm reading king Yoshi's WILD guide that you mentioned above. I realize I may not be timing my WILD attempts correctly. I may need to note how far into my sleep cycle I am when I awake from a dream, then set an alarm for the next night for that time minus 20 mins or so. I guess that is assuming our sleep cycles are similar each night. I awoke the other night 2.75 hrs into sleep in the middle of a dream so I'll set my alarm for 2.5 hours into sleep tonight to attempt a WILD. I'm well rested too so maybe won't just fall asleep.

Fogelbise, from your experience, did you still awake quickly from LDs often 5 months in to practice (about 40 LDs for me now)?

Originally Posted by Azaleaj

Thank you fogelbise. Yes I am interested in the pre DEILD technique. I had success on two night with the DEILD technique but not this week for some reason.

This link will take you to a post where I talk about what I have come to call pre-DEILD: http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...ml#post2177196
The original post in the thread is also handy if you haven't seen it…the whole thread really.

I've been working on having a WILD this last week. I attempted right at bedtime and did get some somewhat clear images.

A WILD attempt at bedtime is quite a challenge, so the recommendation is to do them at WBTB or during morning naps. If you have the time and just want to experiment with it, you can certainly play with WILDs at bedtime. Sageous answers questions about WILDs over in his WILD class which is great. Another WILD procedure I found interesting recently was this one: http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...technique.html
This was his original one which is shorter and may be less daunting than the first one I recommended in that previous post.

The night before last I did not do any LD techniques except a few RCs and a quick meditation before bed. I had a very long vivid and stable dream about being at a festival and going on a date. I became spontaneously lucid and immediately shouted to the sky, show me something amazing. I then felt the dream might end so I started spinning. I did this for maybe 5 seconds before I woke up. I stayed still and tried to re enter the dream but it didn't work. I'm happy I had 4 LD s (3nights) this week but they were all very short. I can't help but feel a little worried that this is my new normal. I try not to focus on that expectation though as my LDs always seem to surprise me.

That last line is crucial. I went through a period like that as well where I was worried that I was getting into a pattern of short LDs and finding a new expectation is key here. That link to pre-DEILD talks about it. It really doesn't matter what you are expecting as long as it is something other than waking up. It could be expecting to enter the void. It could even be expecting that "when the dream fades it means I am heading to a new scene!" (which is basically the pre-DEILD). If that next scene is your bed, make sure you do an RC - it very well could be an FA. See if any of those ideas connect with you and run with the one that you connect with the most…you can always try other ideas later.

I bought the book by Andrew Holecek on dream yoga. I'm also going to start meditating regularly again and doing mindfulness (check ins) throughout the day. Maybe this will help with the WILDs.

You may have the book that FryingMan strongly recommends, which I think is his latest book: Dream Yoga: Illuminating Your Life Through Lucid Dreaming and the Tibetan Yogas of Sleep, which I intend to get at some point.

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EDIT:

Originally Posted by Azaleaj

I'm reading king Yoshi's WILD guide that you mentioned above. I realize I may not be timing my WILD attempts correctly. I may need to note how far into my sleep cycle I am when I awake from a dream, then set an alarm for the next night for that time minus 20 mins or so. I guess that is assuming our sleep cycles are similar each night. I awoke the other night 2.75 hrs into sleep in the middle of a dream so I'll set my alarm for 2.5 hours into sleep tonight to attempt a WILD. I'm well rested too so maybe won't just fall asleep.


Fogelbise, from your experience, did you still awake quickly from LDs often 5 months in to practice (about 40 LDs for me now)?

If you are using an alarm, 4.5 hours is generally recommended. When trying less than 3 hours into the night, you are not really getting good enough sleep before your WILD attempt and you also have less REM happening in those early sleep cycles. I really like the water method which tends to wake you up around the end of a REM cycle, if you don't over-do it by drinking far too much water. It takes some experimenting to get the timing right, around the 4.5 hour mark, but basically you more naturally wake up by needing to urinate due to the extra water you drink before bed.

As far as waking up quickly. I did go through a period like that (see where I talked about it above around the pre-DEILD info). A shift in my mindset/expectation made a big difference, but we all still get short ones from time to time.

Thanks for the freedback! I'm working on changing my expectation and picturing myself having long LDs and more specifically expecting to just do a DEILD if I lose the dream.

Awoke this morning to do WBTB but my lazy self was in charge and I turned off the alarm and went back to sleep. Booo I'll do it tonight though. My dream recall has been poor the last couple of weeks. Only remembering 1 dream plus fragments most nights. May have to do with hitting the snooze button too many times?

I love adjusting expectation in response to greater success. Right now, my expectation is to wake up and stabilize. Next up is relaxing in to the experience. The yoga techniques are super helpful in the dreamstate.

Tblanco, I just started reading Holecek's book on dream yoga and can't wait to try some techniques. I tried meditating and chanting in LDs which produced a neat feeling but didn't last long. Been really lazy with daytime meditation lately.

Interesting week, lots of stress, cat at the vet hospital, feeling somewhat depressed after a series of sad events this fall. I have been keeping up with my LD work (kind of lazily) and artwork because it's so important to me but have not been exercising or meditating like I planned.

Had a short lucid dream on Sunday night, didn't do any induction work as it was a work night. After a fairly long vivid dream about traveling in Greece by myself I became spontaneously lucid. I reminded myself to stay calm and to go with the flow. I didn't have a goal except to explore. I think I rubbed my hands together briefly. I noticed a huge pillsbury doughboy from ghostbusters made of branches and leaves type creature. It was slightly scary but not scary enough to go face. Not sure if I then woke up or forgot I was dreaming.

Last night I did my LD routine with minimal effort, brief WBTB of about 5 mins with about a min of MILD technique and I took galantamine. I had a very vivid dream about getting coffee at a convenience store then not finding my car where I parked it. I became spontaneously lucid. I remembered the DVs challenge of sticking your head through the ground. I tried but the ground was solid. I then remembered my intention to try crawling on the ground so I could keep physical contact with texture to help ground myself. As I started to crawl along a dirt trail my vision faded to black. I rubbed the ground feeling the dirt and pokey grass. My vision returned and I noticed a hole in the ground with some brightly colored ticks in it. I thought, "now there is a fear I don't want to face" (claustrophobia). Vision faded again and I continued to touch the ground. It came back and I saw a gorgeous crystal clear sparkly green forest. Again my vision went black and again it came back and I noticed it was partially obstructed this time. I looked at my hand which was very detailed and covered in callouses. I believe this cycle repeated itself again. When it came back I attempted something sexual with a dream character and woke up. I went over my dream in my head and set my intention to have another LD.

I was in a childhood house debating whether I should go to art class when I became spontaneously lucid. I decided not to focus on stability and just go with the flow. I jumped/floated down the stairs. Then did a handstand in the hall which was really hard to do but fun. I went into a bedroom and saw a handsome guy. I thought I want to kiss him so went up to him. I wondered if his face would change into something scary or weird but it didn't. I believe I then woke up.

Again I'm happy with how often I've become lucid the last few weeks but still struggle with waking up fairly fast. I posted in the dream control section asking people how long it took for them to have longer lucid dreams. I've had a few. I'm really trying to not think about it so I don't set myself up with a negative expectation. I've tried repeating to myself that I have long stable lucid dreams. Maybe I'm expecting too much too soon. I'm not sure since I have no frame of reference.

I think the dreams were my vision fades to black are interesting. This is pretty common for me and I wonder if it is for others too? I'm glad I've found a technique to bring it back but it doesn't last too long before fading again. Any feedback on this?

Congratulations on the multiple LD's!

Yes, much of this will improve with time. Some of these scenarios, like in your final question, sound like you are at the end of REM and perhaps your dreaming mind is only running on fumes and not ready to output much more at that stage. Try not to expect that however. You never know, sometimes you can keep "under" long enough for the next REM cycle to start up and continue, especially late in your sleep when REM segments are close together. Sleep yoga masters are reportedly able to do this during any part of there sleep.

As far as your mantra, I like taking the word stable out of it to avoid thinking directly about stability too much. One alternative is: "I have awesome lucid adventures!" (which implies lengthy stable periods, without putting your mind directly on stability - which can make one worry about stability).

Had two lucid dreams last night, a long and short one. I had read some LD articles last night. One suggested to get an answer to your question you should ask the question then find a drawer, vessel, or door (something that could give an answer), wait a bit, then look for your answer. I also read someone's suggestion of holding an object to stay grounded in the dream. Another suggestion was getting naked to increase body awareness in the dream. I also read someone's suggestion of looking at your hand, and back at the dream a few times to increase clarity. (Something I've had trouble with) (fuzzy or dark visuals) So these things were on my mind. I wanted to ask my dream where we should move to and where to travel to next.

I did my usual WBTB with MILD techniques.

The first one came after a fairly long dream about keeping track of my cat at a family gathering and learning my husband was previously married. I was walking down a path towards the ocean and became lucid.
I looked at my hand then back at the dream and things were fairly clear. I asked the dream where we should move then closed my eyes for the answer....no, wrong technique! That will wake me up. I opened my eyes and either looked at my hand or rubbed my arm. I think I almost woke up but was able to regain control. I then opened my palm for my answer and saw a green hilltop with some clear cuts around. I got the impression that that was my answer. I then looked down at my naked body. I looked normal and vision remained sharp. I then asked about where we should travel, as I walked along. I opened my palm and saw nothing but skin. Tried again and nothing.
A huge bus came along and I laid down on my back and put my my feet on the bumper and let it push me along. This was scary but I reminded myself this was a dream.
New scene. I'm in a building about 150 ft above the ocean. I think " I should fly out over it" which I usually like to do. This feels scary for some reason and I think "what if I'm not dreaming?" I do 3 reality checks. I push my finger against my palm, close one eye to see my nose and plug my nose and try to breathe. The first two don't work but I am able to breathe with my nose plugged so I know I'm dreaming. I jump off the cliff and end up down on the water's edge. I think "this would be a good chance to find a whale and face my fear." Hell no! That seems way too scary. Not sure what happened next.

New dream. I'm in a drive through and see two dogs that have pot leaves for fur. I then go to a river's edge and start searching the ground for fish hooks. I become lucid. I look at my hand then the ground. The ground is then made of flesh and looks just like my palm. I can see veins beneath the surface. I'm crawling around on my hands and knees looking closely. I then wake up. This dream happened between pushing the snooze alarm with 8 min intervals. The alarm still had a couple of minutes to go.

Well this is my personal record, 5 lucid dreams in a week! I'm so happy about it. I also had a long lucid dream again with clear vision which is exciting. A few things I found interesting about these LDs. This was the first time I've ever questioned if I was actually lucid dreaming in a lucid dream and did a RC to check. I've always become lucid spontaneously (after doing MILD) then was sure I was in a dream without question.
I still have not had the courage to face/question a whale. This is the third time I've found myself by or in the ocean and thought about summoning one. It always seems way too intense. A whale has not appeared in a LD yet. I will get the courage soon!
I thought the answer to my question about where to move was interesting. I like that I was shown an image of a place. We may be buying a house in the spring and have some different options in the area, town verses country.

Originally Posted by Azaleaj

Well this is my personal record, 5 lucid dreams in a week! I'm so happy about it. I also had a long lucid dream again with clear vision which is exciting. A few things I found interesting about these LDs. This was the first time I've ever questioned if I was actually lucid dreaming in a lucid dream and did a RC to check. I've always become lucid spontaneously (after doing MILD) then was sure I was in a dream without question.

Congratulations! Great work and a very nice accomplishment!

It never hurts to make sure you are dreaming before taking a 150 ft leap. Plus doing an RC that confirms you are dreaming has the added benefit of adding stability to the lucid dream.

I thought the ground made of flesh was quite intriguing - perhaps a transfer from having just looked at your hand.

I still have not had the courage to face/question a whale. This is the third time I've found myself by or in the ocean and thought about summoning one. It always seems way too intense. A whale has not appeared in a LD yet. I will get the courage soon!

But you let a bus push you, so that shows courage! I think when you do face a whale that you will likely have a beautifully profound experience.