Summoning specific dream characters -- advice, ideas?

**Renyao** · 03-06-2012 06:55 AM

Working on my dream control, and I'd appreciate a bit of advice.

One of my primary dream goals is to meet a number of specific people, most of them fictional characters. For some reason this proves extremely difficult

I've already gotten to the point where I can change the scenery by flying around "searching" for the right place, and usually this works -- I imagine it's easier to run into Batman, for instance, on a rooftop rather than in a grocery store. But even though I'm finding promising-looking settings, the characters don't appear. I'll look into closets and behind doors, telling myself "I'm going to find him right...there!" and even visualizing that they'll be inside, and they still won't appear.

What's worse is when I try to visualize them into reality and wind up with what I call a "shade" -- really the dream equivalent of an imaginary person, a sort of clone of my target DC which flickers in and out of visibility and doesn't really move or interact much. This is a result of trying too hard to "wish" the character into existence, and no fun at all. I know what a fully solid DC is like, and they're completely different from shades.

I've had less than 50% success with every method I've tried. Scanning crowds of people searching for the person, the equivalent of flying overhead looking for the right "scene", wouldn't work so well as my dream settings are often deserted.

I've repeatedly visualized my targets, so it's not as if I'm unclear on how they should look. I can't think that visualizing myself finding them would help, as (A) I am already doing that while in the dream, to no avail, and (B) the scenery tends to be different each time -- I could daydream about finding them in a library, but when I get into the dream I might not locate any libraries, and have to settle on a shopping mall.

I sort of feel annoyed that I spend a good part of most lucid dreams running around looking for people and places, but being that I'm more or less the demigod of my own dreamworld it feels kind of lame to settle for just wandering around dream-parks or talking to unpleasant dream-strangers

Is it really as simple as asking other DCs to bring me this person, or lead me to them? I will try (and try to have faith it'll work!) but my DCs are often hostile. Anyone else have any idea?

**Abra** · 03-06-2012 09:29 PM

Try to make your dreams work like real life, then, as control flows from expectation. You don't just open doors and find who you want. So try using a phone to call them and set up a meetup place. Or "wait" until you hear the doorbell. Simple shifts like these can make a big difference.

That being said, asking dream characters, especially friends and family in your case, can be worthwhile. During a recent summon, I had my sister answer the door instead of me, since opening doors usually doesn't work for me. It worked for her, though, and Iwas able to summon my character this way.

**Renyao** · 03-07-2012 07:58 AM

"Control flows from expectation" makes a lot of sense -- I'd be willing to admit I just kind of hope that people will pop up when I go looking for them, often I don't expect it fully.

And hmm...I don't know how well the phone will work (I never really call people in real life), and I'm seldom at home in dreams, so waiting on visitors might not be practical. Enlisting the help of DCs is really the most sensible thing to do. Your comment about expectation also makes me think I could introduce myself to the DCs as someone who'd be expected to meet my target -- "Hi, my name's Robin, have you seen Batman? He was supposed to meet me here." or something like that.

**hermine_hesse** · 03-08-2012 01:05 AM

Renyao,
I know what you mean about the "shades". I recently made my first attempt at summoning someone and encountered this same problem at first. (I was trying to find Nietzsche, my favorite philosopher). I finally had success (after about a month and a half), by first flying over a landscape. I went into a house that felt right, and found some DC's there. I kept asking DC's if they knew where Nietzsche was until someone said "yes". I then asked the DC to take me to Nietzsche, and she did.

Also, make sure to set your intent before you go to sleep

**Renyao** · 03-08-2012 08:21 AM

I'm glad what I'm describing as "shades" makes sense...really the first few times I spent a dream trying to force someone into existence and then interact with their half-visible, static self, I woke up wondering why I'd wasted my time. Talking to imaginary people is something I can do while awake -- no sense in spending a lucid dream doing the same thing.

More and more I'm thinking that talking to the DCs, and asking them to bring or lead me to this person, has got to be the best way. How would you typically "set your intent" for this? Just go to bed thinking "Gonna become lucid tonight and ask DCs to help me find X" or more detailed than that?

**Dark_Merlin** · 03-08-2012 08:48 AM

Years ago when I made my first attempt at summoning a dream character I got what you talk about a 'shade' of the real thing which doesn't interact well.

I have no problem with summoning dream characters now. To me, it is important to realise that you are already surrounded by the material of your subconscious simply with the formation of the dream. Any dream can be filled with DCs can't it? If you're having trouble forcing a DC to be summoned why not try and allow the dream to summon the character for you? Go somewhere you would expect to meet them but don't be trying to make them appear think of it as though they are already there. I hope this makes some sense

**Sageous** · 03-08-2012 05:19 PM

Dark_Merlin already gave the best advice, I think: you might have more luck finding expected DC's if you go to places where they should be. For instance, seek fictional characters in scenes from their own stories -- places that won't be "right" unless the character you seek is there. In other words, build an "irresistible" context for the character you seek, and they'll likely be included in that context.

Also, you might consider cutting your dreaming mind some slack. Instead of being discouraged by a shade, be happy that something close to target has appeared, and work positively with that. I've found that "shades" that get a little attention sometimes become more recognizable in time. A bad copy is still a copy; be happy with some success, but always expect more.

**Renyao** · 03-09-2012 07:45 AM

I really want to be like Dark_Merlin, summoning people with ease

My lucid dreams have got the worst habit of thwarting whatever I'm determined to do.

But you and Sageous both bring up a good point -- now that I think about it, the times when I've successfully found my targets, they were in the right setting. Most of my shade encounters took place in random environments where my targets wouldn't logically hang out anyway. This brings up another dilemma though: my most common dream settings are the suburbs and the wilderness, so to find my targets it's often necessary to locate a big city (which is sometimes a ways away!) I guess my impatience is what makes me hope I can find my targets in closets or behind the next door, as opposed to going off to find a DC who knows where they are, or the perfect place for them to appear.

I often feel a sense of urgency when I'm lucid, mainly because I'm worried the dream is about to end (I always tend to become lucid about ten minutes before my alarm goes off

) I'll bet rushing into things is also not good for my goals either.

**Sivason** · 03-09-2012 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Renyao

I'm glad what I'm describing as "shades" makes sense...really the first few times I spent a dream trying to force someone into existence and then interact with their half-visible, static self, I woke up wondering why I'd wasted my time. Talking to imaginary people is something I can do while awake -- no sense in spending a lucid dream doing the same thing.

More and more I'm thinking that talking to the DCs, and asking them to bring or lead me to this person, has got to be the best way. How would you typically "set your intent" for this? Just go to bed thinking "Gonna become lucid tonight and ask DCs to help me find X" or more detailed than that?

I know exactly what you mean by shades. If I create an image of someone, I must also then release control of the image, or it is basically a doll not a DC. I am guessing from your LD count that you are just getting started on the fun world of LDs. I bring that up for a reason. You have to build up skills over time. A lot of people seem disappointed when they realize being lucid does not equal being able to control the dream. I recommend two things for you.
1) Start smaller. My first dream goal ever was to clearly hold a sword in an LD. This small trick actually took about ten LDs to accomplish. I would try summoning items that are familiar too you, such as your favorite jacket or your purse. Make it a goal in your mind before sleeping. It should be some what easier to find your purse than Batman. After you have gotten good at summoning common items for practice, then go back to your more difficult goal.
2) When you first start LDing (about the first 2 years) your brain does not readily accept things that go against what makes sence IRL. I suggest that for now, you give your brain a clear explaination as to how and why something will happen. Batman appearing from thin air is going to make your mind rebel. Batman being in your closet is hard to swallow. Batman being in Gotham City? Well Gotham City is pretty hard for your brain to accept also. Here is an example of how I would have had to go about it when I was less experienced.==Find self dreaming. Pick up news paper, weather one is there or not. Pretend to have paper if you don't summon one by just looking on the coffee table. Say out loud in the dream, "Cool there is a film festival in town, and people are dressing up as heros, like Batman." Then walk out the door saying "Im going to go see it" Now just look for anything that might pass as a festival. A crowd of sheep herders, rather than the festival? Pretend you are there, "Oh cool, they even have people dressed up as sheepherds at this film festival!" Look for anyone in weird costumes, and pretend again "oh cool the guy dressed as Batman is over there with those other actors" See what I am doing here? Making it believable to my brain.
Ok, so now you find a guy wearing a Batman costume, not actually Batman, because the first is so easy to get your brain to accept. Now if you are there with the fake batman, then say " Oh my god! You actually are the real batman! You are here to spy on the joker, oh that is so cool! Can I have a ride in the Bat mobile?"

**Renyao** · 03-10-2012 08:24 AM

Sivason, thanks for taking the time to explain everything -- you guessed it, I'm pretty new at this

I guess I was feeling that it ought to be possible since everything's going on in my head...I mean, I've had one or two LDs where I found my target and completed my "mission" flawlessly, so I know it's possible, just...really hard to do. Recently I've also slowed down a bit, working on simply meeting and interacting with anonymous DCs, rather than target-hunting. I had a few recurring issues with DC interaction that I've recently solved, so hopefully that means progress.

I could try summoning objects (and that sounds like a useful skill) but if I practice with inanimate things first, wouldn't I wind up accidentally summoning shades/"dolls" rather than the DCs I'm looking for?

Originally Posted by sivason

2) When you first start LDing (about the first 2 years) your brain does not readily accept things that go against what makes sence IRL. I suggest that for now, you give your brain a clear explaination as to how and why something will happen.

This makes everything so, so much clearer. I've been going around with the mindset that the LD happens in MY dream in MY head, so the dream reality ought to conform to MY wishes, or I ought to be able to force it to do so. Often I was demanding the environment to change drastically or in unrealistic ways (i.e., Batman in my bedroom closet.) But when you think about it, dramatically unusual stuff doesn't tend to pop up out of the blue in nonlucid dreams, so it makes sense that lucid ones won't "allow" that kind of reality-bending without practice. LDs aren't reality, sure, but they're not precisely the same thing as daydreams either.

I love your suggestion about "making things believable to your brain" and I'm going to try it right away. Will report my results once I can manage to become lucid again