Thread: Is the US in danger of becoming a Totalitarian State?

As much so as any other democracy (although perhaps we are a bit closer than many). Remember though that if it happened, it could only happen slowly enough that no one noticed it happening. The people would not allow it otherwise.

Originally Posted by Supernova

The people would not allow it otherwise.

O rly? And what makes you believe that?

The people would not allow it otherwise.

That's what is happening, though. As a society we are entirely focused on the negative aspects of what actually makes us a society. If that's all we care about, then is it any wonder we are headed towards a totalitarian state?

If the government is of the people, and its people are insane, then what posible outcome other than a [ts] could there be?

Haha Omnis reading the OP made me just imagine you hiding in the wings waiting to pounce on anyone who is foolish enough to post an opinion incompatible with yours

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

That's what is happening

Yes, and it's happening slowly enough that far too many people aren't noticing. It's not like there's been a single person/group that says "we're gonna take this democracy and turn it into a totalitarian state in our control, and we have every move planned" (NWO conspiracy theorists, I'm looking at you); it's just what happens when you put people in power and don't keep them on a short enough leash.

Fortunately, how slow is slow enough can vary considerably from person to person, and plenty of people (i.e. Occupy) have taken notice entirely.

Unlikely. But then again, any country can lean towards totalitarianism, which is why the people need to vote wisely.

Is it in danger? I'm not entirely sure. There's a part of me that expects the general population to not accept a totalitarian state. But the other part wouldn't be surprised one bit if it did.

Heading in the direction? Totally, actually leave them alone a few years and you're already there. But as said, currently people are becoming more aware of their democratic rights and the politicians are feeling that in their neck, not to their liking I bet. Now to hope people will keep on being aware and we won't be in danger. Not that I live in the US but if it's within the next 40.000km it pretty much concerns me nonetheless.

Then again I think the current state of this world, including the US, is bad enough already so I hope it doesn't get even worse.

Not many people know that the US in the last few years has increasingly become a totalitarian dictatorship. One frightening aspect is the legislation that has been passed concerning the continuation of government under a national emergency. Another frightening aspect is that the governement has in place the technology to switch off the entire media at the flick of a switch. Surveillance is out of control, one example is the voice scanning technology in street lights to snoop on people. The increasing militarisation of the police is becoming increasingly disturbing. This and a great deal more has all been covered in a documentary film fully backed up with government documents; documents from the military and police and reports from reputable news agenies. I watched 'Police State 4 - The Rise of FEMA' one morning and it left me feeling very depressed for two days. Some will find this film very hard to follow and will have to watch it several times to get a good understanding unless you have a good background knowledge of federal agencies and the legislative process. I have watched all four of the 'Police State' films in this series of documentaries and one cannot ignore the documents that prove the assertions made in the films. The predicitions that have been made in the three films prior to 'Police State 4' have come true. It is a must see film and can be watched below:

Indeed, the fascistic aspects of the US federal government go so far beyond what was done in Nazi Germany or the USSR, one wonders what definition of "totalitarian" people are using. Did you think they would advertise this stuff?

I think about the prison population in America, the militarization of the police, the lessening of privacy everyday.... I think it's already there. I think about how simple it would be for them to literally just lock us all down, break down our doors and kill us. If they wanted to arrest me and kill my entire family, they would get away with it. They poison my food and water. Drug me against my will. Imprison my friends for no good reason at all. Illegally search me for walking home. Then they lie and put on a smile for the camera and sing a lullaby to all the small people.

The thing about propaganda is of course people would reject enslavement, so you manufacture public opinion that they are not enslaved, that they still have rights. Educate the population throughout school with this notion that they live in a free world, but as soon as they turn against the status quo they get nailed.

We may always have elections, but what does that matter when each passing year requires more and more money to get elected, retaining power within the plutocracy?

We may always have the bill of rights and constitution, officially, but they're just pieces of paper and with so much contradictory legislation being enforced, what meaning do they have?

Where is the line? At what point would it be enough, at what point would it be our responsibility to fight back? Would we even have the capability of fighting back if we tried?

Originally Posted by Solar

I think about the prison population in America, the militarization of the police, the lessening of privacy everyday.... I think it's already there. I think about how simple it would be for them to literally just lock us all down, break down our doors and kill us. If they wanted to arrest me and kill my entire family, they would get away with it. They poison my food and water. Drug me against my will. Imprison my friends for no good reason at all. Illegally search me for walking home. Then they lie and put on a smile for the camera and sing a lullaby to all the small people.

Not picking on you, but just pointing out a flaw in many people's logic: our government is a very complex bureaucracy consisting of many people with varying levels of authority and varying opinions on every issue. You can't just attribute any government-related action to a conveniently ambiguous "them".

And, to answer your question Omnis, it's always our responsibility to fight back, in some sense of the term. Based on the ideas of many political philosophers throughout history, ideas which ultimately led to those put forth by our founding fathers, the American people would be completely justified right now in disposing of our current government and instituting a new one. And not because of some vague and shoddy notion of FEMA death camps or anything of the sort; simply because our leaders are failing to protect the best interests of the people rather than those of themselves and the upper class.

Put it this way; no matter how you look at the whole situation; the things our politicians are doing in plain sight are completely unacceptable.

But they aren't, are they? Protesters are getting hit with tear gas, people are being beaten to death by police, our prisons have become a financial institution... we don't even have a right to trial anymore if someone decides we mean to throw out the government.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

The thing about propaganda is of course people would reject enslavement, so you manufacture public opinion that they are not enslaved, that they still have rights. Educate the population throughout school with this notion that they live in a free world, but as soon as they turn against the status quo they get nailed.

We may always have elections, but what does that matter when each passing year requires more and more money to get elected, retaining power within the plutocracy?

We may always have the bill of rights and constitution, officially, but they're just pieces of paper and with so much contradictory legislation being enforced, what meaning do they have?

Where is the line? At what point would it be enough, at what point would it be our responsibility to fight back? Would we even have the capability of fighting back if we tried?

This is where the so-called "left" and "right" libertarians are in complete agreement (except the part about elections).

I think the difference between us is you believe this problem is emerging from the government, I see the government as a puppet for the banks.

Not at the moment.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

I think the difference between us is you believe this problem is emerging from the government, I see the government as a puppet for the banks.

Well here we have a bankster telling Ronald Reagan to speed his speech up. The banks have been in charge for a long time.

Originally Posted by Supernova

Yes, and it's happening slowly enough that far too many people aren't noticing. It's not like there's been a single person/group that says "we're gonna take this democracy and turn it into a totalitarian state in our control, and we have every move planned" (NWO conspiracy theorists, I'm looking at you); it's just what happens when you put people in power and don't keep them on a short enough leash.

I beg to differ. Of course, I don't believe EVERYTHING is part of a grand plan.... but....

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

I think the difference between us is you believe this problem is emerging from the government, I see the government as a puppet for the banks.

The problem is power. Who buys that power is immaterial. It just so happens that the banks have the money, so they buy the power.

I would say we are already there, with some form of soft fascism already in place. We have the largest prison system in the world, our government now claims the right to hold citizen forever without trial and the power to assassinate US citizens, which it has already done and boasted about it.

On the other hand there are several things limiting the government. Such as how we have the most highly armed citizenry in the world. The internet is built into our culture now too, and the government keeps trying to put control on it but they keep failing over and over. People are also very opinionated and we have people speaking out all the time, and as much as the government tries to silence people we still have a good hold on our freedom of speech.

You can see the government trying to make inroads to destroy freedom of speech, put in heavy gun control restrictions, and take control over the internet, and they have success every once in a while but for the most part they can't take control of those three things.

They say when the government fears the people, you have freedom. And when the people fear the government you have totalitarianism. In the US both are true, the government fears the people and the people fear the government and so we are pitched in a fight of dominance to see who is really in control. Which is why I say we are in this soft fascist state. We are not quiet there yet, but it isn't for the lack of trying on the government side.

Originally Posted by tommo

I beg to differ. Of course, I don't believe EVERYTHING is part of a grand plan.... but....

Well, part B didn't happen, but as far as Iraq goes I have to believe that was nothing other than wanting another "friendly" regime in the area for easier access to oil, as horrible as that is.

Part B only didn't happen because they underestimated Iraq's ability to fight back. Just as Bin Laden planned, we exhausted our resources and built up a massive deficit just with Iraq and Afghanistan

Yeah, pretty much the whole of the democratic world is, Europe is ahead the US though, at least freedom of speech is constitutionally protected for now there. I'm already at the stage where I have to concisouly think about what I say incase it contravines the law. The seeds for totalitarianism were sown in the 1920's ish Only now are we really starting to see the effects of it.