Telling your Subconscious to obtain a skill

[Melanie]

I have been thinking for awhile, is it possible to record yourself saying something then listening to it while you sleep, will you gradually/slowly get better? For example, Lets's say you recorded yourself saying....uh "I know I can draw" or something along those lines and then go to sleep listening to where the message has easier access to the sub-mind, will it work? I mean of course you have to practice still.....

[Carrot]

I don't think I can fall to sleep with a sound constantly playing beside my head.

[Raspberry]

I think that will just give you a restless night. Plus, a whole lot of mantras need visualisation to be included, so it's better if you do it while awake. Your sub-conscious works better with images instead of words.

[Xei]

No, similar things for learning language haven't been found to have any effect. The only way to get better at something is to practice it with your conscious mind. I know it's a drag and all but if you want a skill you have to actually put some effort in.

[Original Poster]

Xei is sort of right but mostly wrong. We spend a lot more time in hypnosis then we realize. The unconscious mind receives everything, constantly, but when we apply our conscious attention we utilize a critical filter. When we tune out of the data we are receiving, it bypasses the critical filter. However, it continues to create and increase neural connections in the brain. The Media understands this mechanism, which is why marketers don't care if you tune out of commercials because technically you're still tuned in, and when you watch a commercial 35 times it will reinforce the neural pattern 35 times. This is why practice, repetition and habit is more powerful than reason. Reason can enable you to figure out which information you want to expose yourself to, or which environment, etc, but our minds are made up of patterns that become stronger or weaker based on the repetition through which they are reinforced. Understanding this, one could listen to audio tapes while asleep in order to increase pre-existing connections or work around a critical filter. However, this knowledge is much more serviceable when it comes to things we think we know. For instance, how many really good books can you think of that you read at least once per year? Gaining knowledge once doesn't mean you'll utilize it as well as someone that continues to repeat the learning exercise in order to reinforce the pattern they are interested in developing. So it wouldn't work with language because the brain has to formulate new connections and invent new symbols, and the unconscious attention has no pre-existing patterns to work with in regard to words we've never heard before. However, it can be successful to over power pre-existing negative patterns in the brain such as self-esteem issues and self-worth issues. You won't wake up after telling yourself "I can draw" and instantly draw a masterpiece. But you can shift your attitude from doubt in your ability to confidence in your ability.

[mcwillis]

Some people say that they have had good success playing affirmations whilst asleep. I have tried it extensively and received zilch.

[juroara]

You won't wake up after telling yourself "I can draw" and instantly draw a masterpiece. But you can shift your attitude from doubt in your ability to confidence in your ability. I have to agree with this 100%, only because I did something similar this past weekend! I didn't listen to suggestions while asleep, I just made the suggestions to myself while wide awake. I wanted to be a full time artist. Then I realized, the only reason why I wasn't a full time artist was because I don't act like one. And attitude is all in your head. I spent an entire day telling myself that I am a full time artist until I finally felt like I really could be one. Suddenly what I had to do next made so much sense! I re-arranged my studio to optimum efficiency and I started a painting from one of my favorite sketches. The sketch was three years old! And I remember that when I made that sketch three years ago I wanted to paint it, so why did it take me three years to finally get around to it? Anyways, use what ever tools you can to work with the subconscious. Yes, there will still be hard work. But if you work with your subconscious you won't have nagging fears or doubt, instead the hard work can be fun.

[Carrot]

Really? If that's the case maybe I can use it to get rid of my OCD, it's getting increasingly annoying no matter what I told myself in real life.

[Original Poster]

Perhaps, rather than trying to will yourself out of OCD, thus causing more stress and reinforcing the conditioning, you surrender to the act of not feeding it. Does that make sense?

[Carrot]

Perhaps, rather than trying to will yourself out of OCD, thus causing more stress and reinforcing the conditioning, you surrender to the act of not feeding it. Does that make sense? I get the first part, I don't get the second part.

[Original Poster]

Surrender often implies giving up, in order to understand right action, one must change this implication. Surrender is not giving up, in fact it can mean the opposite of what is implied. For instance I never willed myself to quit smoking cigarettes. I surrendered to the decision not to smoke. And this attitude change makes all the difference. Passivity has nothing to do with surrender. For instance I must often surrender to speaking more loudly and assertively in order to communicate effectively. My guru does not will himself not to eat when he fasts, he surrenders to his decision to fast and follows through.

[tommo]

I think that can be simplified to "Instead of focusing on getting rid of your OCD, focus on something else. Because by focusing on getting rid of your OCD, you're actively focusing on your OCD." I couldn't quit cigarettes by focusing on quitting, coz I was just sitting there think I can't have a smoke all day. Coz I was focusing on it I wanted one more. Whereas if I went and did something all day I could get through without even craving one the entire day.

[Original Poster]

That's just distracting yourself. And that is not how I quit smoking. Trying to distract myself made me anxious. I had to focus on smoking. Focus on it, revel in it, surrender to it. But not do it. Surrender does not mean passivity. Surrender means allowing yourself to do what is best for you. You give up control, but you do not give up your decisions.

[tommo]

Worked for me though. Just has to be constant. It's not just distracting yourself though, it's slightly different although I'm not sure I can explain how. Then again I didn't actually give up smoking, so maybe your way is better. Since *not* thinking about something for a long period of time is pretty difficult.

[Linkzelda]

One of my main goals with lucid dreaming is to be able to set up a virtual simulation for practicing various things, like working in laboratory, so that the next day, I can do everything with ease. But taking into consideration of homologous association that dreams tend to be fabricated from the start, it might be a bit difficult at first. But with the repetition as people posted before in this thread, eventually the links will start to come together, and through persistence and devotion, and eradicating the mental barriers that dreams are merely an abstract collection from the unconscious sublimated into an "experience," I can see that telling your subconscious to obtain a skill might be possible. Of course, you actually have to practice it over and over until you are sure you'd get it, so telling it to obtain it should only be a supplement towards your goal. Unless you have a Dissociative Identity Disorder, and can somehow have parts of your mind learning things in dreams without your conscious effort to acknowledge it, then you might not have to try so hard...but even if that's possible, there would be some kind of error when you try to make yourself whole again, in the dream that is, because you might find blanks in pieces of your recall when you wake up. What I'm trying to say is that with seeing several personalities/parts/splits of yourself in dreams, and relying that they will handle certain parts to break down tedious tasks into smaller pieces, the same way we process and organize information, learning something, and telling your subconscious to obtain it might provide a greater efficacy. (but this time, it's just taking that a bit further with more chunks that can be associated quickly for later use). What I've said just now is clearly obvious: Doing that will dilute your sense of reality in the dreaming world, but with practice, and if you're crazy enough......wait never mind, this is ED, so I'll stop before get off-topic with Beyond Dreaming fundamentals. =/ It would be nice to utilize Eidetic memory, augment its efficacy in retaining information, and being able to practice it both in waking life and dreaming life (logical practices of course...not creating fire balls from your hand and expecting it to show up in waking life). So if you tell people in general that you do that to learn new things, they'll obviously laugh and think you're a psycho I guess trying to obtain a skill from your subconscious, and then practicing it over and over is possible, assuming you can have a stable lucid dream with time being dilated enough until you can learn it gradually. But you don't see that many people here on Dream Views claiming to be able to do so, or at least provide evidence of their experience with dream recall. But if you're excluding dreaming aspects of it, and relying only on laws and rules of waking life, it's like saying an egg in front of you is going to boil right there and then, it's just not going to happen, unless you actually put the effort in boiling it....or deus ex machina.

[dutchraptor]

Well a few years ago a experiment was held: There was 60 people, 30 of which where told to work out intensely 60 mins everyday, the other thirthy where to practise visualizing working out for 30 mins each day. By the end of the period the workout people had gained over 40% extra muscle mass, while the other 30 gained an amazing 20% extra muscle mass just by thinking. The exact reason for the outcome of the experiment has never become clear I believe, but it does show that it could be possible to physically effect your body. So in a way training with fifty tonne weights in your lucid dream may actually have an effect on your real physical body

[tommo]

I've heard about that too. I wonder if it's been repeated.

[Carrot]

I had to focus on smoking. Focus on it, revel in it, surrender to it. But not do it. I will most probably get anxiety from doing that. One of OCD symptoms is having obsessive thoughts and I don't see how surrendering to it but not doing it might help it. I'm worried if I lose control I might just go injure someone.

[Carrot]

That's just distracting yourself. And that is not how I quit smoking. Trying to distract myself made me anxious. I had to focus on smoking. Focus on it, revel in it, surrender to it. But not do it. Surrender does not mean passivity. Surrender means allowing yourself to do what is best for you. You give up control, but you do not give up your decisions. Hey wait. I take back what I said previously. I've been thinking about what it means. Here's how I interpret it. I give in to the thought of blasting music, I imagine myself hearing the blasted music, I imagine myself increasing the volume but it only remains in my thoughts, not my actions. Am I doing it right? I hope it works.

[snoop]

I think it means not to reject the idea, not to tell yourself that you're wrong or bad for thinking it and trying never to think it again. Instead, acknowledge and appreciate what it is that you're thinking or feeling, but make the decision not to do it. Example: God I want a cigarette, oh fuck don't say that, you're quitting, shit don't think about it any more, don't think about it anymore. This becomes: God I want a cigarette, shit. I quit though, so I'll deal with it. Put in simpler terms, do not shun or avoid the want/impulse/thought, just accept it but realize that you've committed yourself to whatever it is you've committed to, and say no. Don't come up with some excuse for why it is that you're trying to accomplish, realize what you want and accept it (e.g., I have to quit smoking it's bad for my health vs. I'm not going to smoke because I don't want to anymore). This reminds me of Jungian (or maybe it was Freud?) Psychology in how it explains complexes are formed. If you try and repress or hide from your urge, a complex develops, and to avoid such a thing, you must acknowledge your urge. You can't run away from your own thoughts, but you can certainly deal with them.

[Original Poster]

When the impulse arises, do not label it as good or bad, do not acknowledge it with action. When the impulse arises, be with it. Investigate the sensation. Find where in your body the sensation comes from. Dig into the sensation. Be with the flow of the sensation. Unwrap the sensation. You are not after the visualization of giving into the impulse. You are not after a blockade to stop the impulse from coming. You are after the feeling behind the impulse. Be aware of this feeling.

[tsiouz]

Imagine that the rational part of the brain thinks of time as a line that goes like this. ------------------/--------------- with the / part is being the now.subconcious does not think of time linear.the archetype of the subconcious is the 8 turned in horizontial position.as the symbol of the infinite doesen't recognize the time as a linear scale.alo it doesen't recognize denial as sentiment has only a positive pole in oppose to the sexual with a negative one.and by being a sentimental field subconcious carries traps.the first is the case of a man that for example he is on a theater ready to perform and hes repeating to himself "im not going to fail" so the subconcious eventually going to hear the word fail and he is going to fail.The second is an example of a man in difficult economical state that says to himself "i want (or need) money.then the subconcious which not understands time lines reproduce the word i need money.so the man keeps being in a state that he wants or needs money.also in the word "i know that i can draw" the subconcious as projection makes a man that he knows that he can draw but not nessesairy be able to do so.like a man who ha to jump over an adge of 4 meters so hes saying to himself i know that i can jump over and he might feels this way but hes going to fall.so that word is going to give you the feeling not the ability to do so.So the best word to use is "im drawing" so the subconcious can transfer a command a the present time.but beware.as the subconcious recognize only one command it can follow that up to the point that the command by itself going to put an obstacle on anything else in your life by following that command.also cases of contradicting orders or an order misplaced can bring collision.but the subconcious should remain as clean as possible so my opinion is to try to avoid any method like that because you gonna fill it with garbage plus you can get easy to the other side of the target as a result of polarity. I hope i've been helpfull sorry for the bad english. Good luck.