Thread: Boy Scouts of America refuses to enter 21st Century

Originally Posted by Fechtel

Maybe anti-natural would be a better term. It goes against nature, or against the human species, because if all of us were gay, there would be no human species.

And this is without me bringing religion into this, because it would be a pointless debate.

I very rarely get drawn into arguments like this, but I felt it would have been irresponsible for me not to point out a gaping hole in your (ridiculous, to be honest) position on this:

To say nothing of the completely mindless 'homosexuality goes against nature' point (ignoring the fact that homosexuality exists within NATURE, ITSELF - not only in humans, but in the animal kingdom as well) the above-quoted argument is basically implying that those humans who also Don't Choose to Procreate At All, are "against nature", because if all of us decided not to have children, there would be no human species.

This is a completely asinine idea, and I seriously hope the majority of your contributions on like topics employ better logic than you have shown here.

With that being said: Welcome to Dream Views!

I would describe my reaction to the whole situation as anti-Fechtal, not to be confused with unFechtal.

Spoiler for Nevermind that, didn't realize Fechtel was banned.:

Originally Posted by Fechtel

Procreation is the ONLY reason for our existence. Heterosexuality is natural because it creates procreation.

Homosexuality is unnatural because there is no procreation.

Haha, oh wow. You're saying that because procreation is a good thing, any potential procreation that is lost goes against the human race. It's not black and white like that. You're right that if everybody chose to not have children, that'd really suck for humanity. But that ridiculous thought-experiment has nothing to do with homosexuality at all, since there aren't that many homosexuals. It is perfectly fine for people not to procreate, we've already got plenty of people procreating.

Come back when we run out of heterosexuals, that's when we have the problem you're talking about.

And also there is no such thing as natural, and even if there is it does not gurantee that said natural thing is good. Tornadoes, tsunamis, diseases and so on are all natural. Some medicines are made by humans, and I guess by some weird logic that makes it "unnatural". I've just shown you that unnatural things can be good and natural things can be bad, so claiming that homosexuality is unnatural is basically a worthless statement.

Originally Posted by Savy

I would describe my reaction to the whole situation as anti-Fechtal, not to be confused with unFechtal.

I personally feel quite non-Fechtal and inFechtal.

EDIT:
And also, I don't quite get the whole "boy scouts" thing, why is that even a thing? And why do they have a stance on homosexuality?

I wonder in scout tradition, if they teach them how to make the bonfire and craft the steak on which they burn their gay comrades on? Is there a badge for hate?

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

They'll be thrown out: "In the unlikely event that an older boy were to hold himself out as homosexual, he would not be able to continue in a youth leadership position." Boy Scouts of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see anything relating to lesbianism in the wiki page, but they might treat them the same as gays.

Nope. As far as I know, Girl Scouts don't throw people out for being gay or atheists, two of the things the Boy Scouts will throw you out for.

Chick-Fil-A won't hire any openly gay people, either. It's not a matter of these orgs 'behind the times' BLUELINE976, it's religious doctrine.

re: I don't understand why anyone who ever speaks out against the gay agenda, is immediately cast as a bigot, or someone who isn't 'with it'. When the very consensus behind straight bashing, is the same one pushing for tolerance of the gay life style, then there is something inherently wrong with their entire train of thought.

I get that some people are born gay; their wires are wrong, and there's nothing they can do about it, but don't condemn me because my brain works the way it was designed to.

Jesus, it's like being straight is the new gay.

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

Jesus, it's like being straight is the new gay.

I agree that, in current times, this is in effect true, but it's true for a reason, and it's not gonna stay that way forever.
Being a same-race couple was once the new interracial couple.

Also, there is no [significant enough to be recognized] "straight-bashing". I think you're confusing straight-bashing with homophobe-bashing.

homophobe-bashing

You're right, but most people don't understand there's a difference between the two.

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

Chick-Fil-A won't hire any openly gay people, either. It's not a matter of these orgs 'behind the times' BLUELINE976, it's religious doctrine.

The religious doctrine is behind the times. They are incorrect, backwards relics and need to go.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

It goes against nature, or against the human species, because if all of us were gay, there would be no human species.

> Being a man.
> Not killing yourself for being unnatural.

Originally Posted by Fechtel

And I support them wholeheartedly.

Never liked 'em, never will.

Religion aside, it is completely unnatural.

Your post is nothing but hate

ive zero respect for you

Originally Posted by Fechtel

And I support them wholeheartedly.

Never liked 'em, never will.

Religion aside, it is completely unnatural.

y'all getting troll'd good

http://boingboing.net/2012/07/23/eag...Boing+Boing%29

Originally Posted by Fechtel

It goes against nature, or against the human species, because if all of us were gay, there would be no human species.

Fechtel was appropriately banned (hopefully forever?) but nobody pointed out that this argument is never valid.

If everybody X then Y.

Here X is some action and Y is something really bad and scary. The problem with this argument is that everybody never does X. Some people want to do X and some people dont.

If everybody layed about smoking pot all day, the whole world would be a bunch of stoner lay-abouts.
If everybody masturbated all day, everybody would go blind and have hairy palms.
If everybody were gay, the human species would go extinct.


Another nice response to the whole "homosexuality is non-procreative" argument is to ask the person if they like getting head. An even better one is to ask why it's your concern what the fate of your genes is.

So, perhaps some input from a Boy Scout leader would help.

I'm a Boy Scout leader.

I have participated with the scouts for the last 8 years.

Not every troop or pack discriminates in that manner no matter what the official policy is. Many people recognize that not allowing gay people to participate is detrimental to society in so many ways. It's hard to teach tolerance and common respect to boys when you actively discriminate against a group and many people in scouts recognize that.

I have never encountered a single act of repression or discrimination locally.

That being said, the Boy Scouts of America remains a private organization allowed by law to set their own guidelines for membership. Many people do not agree with discriminating against gay leaders (the main issue) but the BSA remains a good place to learn valuable life skills.

The BSA allows for religious tolerance of all faith-based religions and even states so in the handbook. One need not be Christian as long as a member believes in a higher power of some form.

When you join no one asks what your faith is or whether you are homosexual. In general a Don't Ask/Don't Tell atmosphere remains in effect across the country/organization.

Here in Austin people would hardly bat an eye if someone revealed they are homosexual. Clearly that is not the case everywhere, in the United States or the rest of the world.

With luck, and continued efforts by fine upstanding homosexual citizens, I hope to see a day when this policy is overturned. However, because people tend to become more conservative by nature as they age and become parents it is unlikely to change any time soon.

When the perceptions of society change as a whole it is likely that policy will eventually reflect the opinions of the larger populace.


My own children do not perceive homosexuality as a reason to discriminate and likely never will. With luck my son will combine the wonderful knowledge and life-skills he gained in scouts with the common decency for fellow humans he learned in this house and use it to be a good man. With luck he will influence others to respect all individuals.

That's good to hear melanie. Hopefully an environment like where you are, will arise in more areas, so the anti-gay policy can change.

If I remember correctly, the girl scouts are basically the polar opposite, allowing the entire LGBT spectrum into their groups.

In a couple decades, when the vast majority is accepting of gay people, will we look back on the Boy Scouts of America like the Segregationist Democrats of the 50's and 60's? We might, if their leadership doesn't evolve with our society. It's not really possible to change the internal beliefs of a private, independent organization overnight, but they'll have to change eventually or else they'll just be seen as a hateful organizations because of their dissociations. Slowly damaging their own organization by excluding plenty of intelligent, skilled men and boys.

Originally Posted by ThePreserver

In a couple decades, when the vast majority is accepting of gay people, will we look back on the Boy Scouts of America like the Segregationist Democrats of the 50's and 60's? We might, if their leadership doesn't evolve with our society. It's not really possible to change the internal beliefs of a private, independent organization overnight, but they'll have to change eventually or else they'll just be seen as a hateful organizations because of their dissociations. Slowly damaging their own organization by excluding plenty of intelligent, skilled men and boys.

I don't know if it's been said yet, but the boy scouts are now owned by the mormon's. It's unlikely that their leadership will change even after the majority of people in this country do. Maybe they'll change their policy when they realize how much it's damaging the organization, but it's unlikely that they'll change their own beliefs for quite a while.

The Boy Scouts are not owned by the Mormons.

It's true that, of chartered organizations, the Mormons have more members than any other group...but that number only represents units particularly chartered by Mormons. The unit I belong to is chartered by the Methodist church where we meet but very few of the scouts actually belong to the church.

The chartered organization isn't always in position to influence the Troop or Pack regarding their activities. Ours allows us a free meeting space. We in turn help out with a 'day-of-service' once a year where the scouts primarily help people to their seats and attempt to look sharp. Of course, scout members are not required to participate in these service days and can always choose to serve at a different church of their choice.

As of 2011 there were 2,641,097 chartered members in the BSA. Of that, 420,977 were chartered by Mormon sponsored locations and, like us, chances are not every one of those members is Mormon. Even if all of them left it would still leave 2,220,120 chartered members sponsored by both religious and non-religious organizations.

Here's a link which shows all the major sponsoring organizations: Chartered Organizations and the Boy Scouts of America

Some of the Scout Executives are indeed Mormons and it's indeed possible that their faith prevents them from accepting homosexual members. Even with that, plenty of non-Mormon scouters helped create the BSA over the last 100 years.

I wouldn't worry about the Mormons. There are plenty of people of all faiths who discriminate against homosexuals. The Boy Scouts also accepts people of all faiths as long as they believe in a god of some form.

Sucks for the Buddhists and Taoists ...

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

Sucks for the Buddhists and Taoists ...

Not that they'd be educated enough to realize that Buddha isn't a deity anyway.
For the most part, Christians aren't usually well-versed on other religions.

Yes I know I'm generalizing.

Originally Posted by Jesus of Suburbia

Not that they'd be educated enough to realize that Buddha isn't a deity anyway.
For the most part, Christians aren't usually well-versed on other religions.

Yes I know I'm generalizing.

Nah, you're just shit posting.

A little. But the stuff I hear about Islam daily and listening to people who genuinely think Satanists worship the devil tends to make a man lean towards "Christians don't care what your religion is actually about, they just want to tell you you're wrong."

Although I'm sure people of other faiths do the same thing. I just happen to live in a country where Christians are the majority.

This is a decent article from the year 2000 that mentions the Girl Scouts and other groups and how they stond on the homosexuality issue:

Girl Scouts Blazing Its Own Trail on Lesbian Issue | Womens eNews