Thread: Possible Dangers Of Lucid Dreaming!

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

For a Newbie this is seriously making me have doubts about having Lucid dreaming. I mean it seems awesome but what the op had to say was a little startling. Considering the side effects I may just back off from this for a moment.

These are a few of the side effect that were startling

Not remembering important events in one’s life

I don't want to forget things. Let alone important ones.

Being in a familiar place but finding it unfamiliar

Wow that bit unnerving.

Seeing oneself as if looking at another person

Could this be a sign of someone going crazy?

Other people and objects do not seem real

See above

Looking at the world through a fog or haze

whoa I don't want to be me.

I really hope am over exaggerating about this because the comments above really is putting to rest. Hope their right.

There's nothing to worry about!

Dreams aren't dangerous in any way, regardless of whether you're lucid or not. And besides, if you don't have trouble with regular dreams, you won't with lucid ones. I'm actually really starting to dislike the OP because of these doubts he's raising, and want to lock this thread. After all, doubts are definitely being raised for no reason whatsoever. There's no legitimate source to prove any of this stuff can happen with normal people.

Originally Posted by Puffin

I'm actually really starting to dislike the OP because of these doubts he's raising, and want to lock this thread.

The OP just reposted a WikiBooks article that's already freely available. Most of the thread has just been the rest of us tearing apart this (poorly researched, hackneyed, fear-mongering) article. At least this thread is now under "Dangers of Lucid Dreaming" on Google, which might help slow the tide of misinformation.

BTW, I do love how the article begins with "there is no current evidence of lucid dreaming being abnormal or unhealthy in any way," and then goes on to make shit up about what might happen if real life was a terribly scripted sci-fi movie.

I'm sorry to say but most of you haven't carefully read the title. It's not misleading in any way. It says POSSIBLE effects. I could see if I made a thread saying "THE PROVEN DANGERS OF LUCID DREAMING, CLICK HERE!!!", then I'd deserve that. It wasn't meant to scare anyone. I personally only believe in one or two or those effects, but not really the rest. That doesn't mean they CAN'T be there though. Next time you start going on about "disliking" me then first read the title. Also, I asked for your opinions, not to hear "Oh, I dislike you, I wish I could lock the thread, waaah ". I dislike "some people" for being illiterate. I'm not saying any names though.

It wasn't meant as a personal attack.

And you're obviously talking about me but in a rather obnoxious manner (even if you don't mention any names, it's pretty damn obvious). And I can tell your reply was meant to be rude and exaggerated, which I don't really appreciate. The issue here is that someone isn't sure whether they want to LD anymore; because of that maybe you'd want to think twice about posting something that doesn't have hard evidence, you know?

I'm tired and cranky so I apologize for my post, but I didn't need a reply like that.

In my opinion, those are "possible dangers" of lucid dreaming like stabbing yourself in the eye is a "possible danger" of eating with a fork.

"Possible," but not really worth acknowledging, unless you're prone to that level of mindlessness.

Originally Posted by Luciel

I'm sorry to say but most of you haven't carefully read the title. It's not misleading in any way. It says POSSIBLE effects. I could see if I made a thread saying "THE PROVEN DANGERS OF LUCID DREAMING, CLICK HERE!!!", then I'd deserve that. It wasn't meant to scare anyone. I personally only believe in one or two or those effects, but not really the rest. That doesn't mean they CAN'T be there though. Next time you start going on about "disliking" me then first read the title. Also, I asked for your opinions, not to hear "Oh, I dislike you, I wish I could lock the thread, waaah ". I dislike "some people" for being illiterate. I'm not saying any names though.

Can you blame them? I mean, you post a huge article citing the possibly bad things that may come about from Lucid Dreaming, and not expect this backlash? If it's already about to scare MrBlonde away, imagine the thousands of potential lucid dreamers it HAS scared away. All because of a notion by whoever wrote the article that lucid dreaming is so amazing, and too good to be true, that there HAS to be a downside. That there HAS to be side effects, like its some drug. When in reality it's the greatest alternative to a drug other than not doing drugs at all. It's misleading, it's scaring away those who could either enjoy or benefit from Lucid Dreaming, and it's BS. I've yet to hear about any of these things to be a truly real concern, and I doubt I will.

Which then brings up the question of why you looked this up in the first place. Why so hesitant? If anything, dreams, let alone lucid ones, should be the last thing on anyone's list of things too look up dangers for.

Originally Posted by Puffin

It wasn't meant as a personal attack.

And you're obviously talking about me but in a rather obnoxious manner (even if you don't mention any names, it's pretty damn obvious). And I can tell your reply was meant to be rude and exaggerated, which I don't really appreciate. The issue here is that someone isn't sure whether they want to LD anymore; because of that maybe you'd want to think twice about posting something that doesn't have hard evidence, you know?

I'm tired and cranky so I apologize for my post, but I didn't need a reply like that.

Wasn't meant as a personal attack? I could see if you said everything...maybe without the "dislike" part. You don't even know me yet you're starting to dislike me over a thread that does not in anyway say there's scientific proof of these occurrence? I don't appreciate that. Hell, they flat out tell you everything and are honest that they're just basically theories and not scientifically proven yet. Besides, our so called "evidence" changes all the time. What may be proven now may be dismissed later or the other way around. I didn't go around telling people to stop lucid dreaming. It's just a direct quote on quote from Wikibooks. I asked for people's opinions not to be attacked. The expression goes as follows, "don't shoot the messenger!"

I form strong opinions of people during first encounters (in this case, posts), and that's me. And I also tend to voice my opinions rather vocally. You'll meet a lot of people like that in life, so you might as well get used to it here. I'm not even close to mean, compared to others you'll meet.

Originally Posted by Snowy Egypt

Can you blame them? I mean, you post a huge article citing the possibly bad things that may come about from Lucid Dreaming, and not expect this backlash? If it's already about to scare MrBlonde away, imagine the thousands of potential lucid dreamers it HAS scared away. All because of a notion by whoever wrote the article that lucid dreaming is so amazing, and too good to be true, that there HAS to be a downside. That there HAS to be side effects, like its some drug. When in reality it's the greatest alternative to a drug other than not doing drugs at all. It's misleading, it's scaring away those who could either enjoy or benefit from Lucid Dreaming, and it's BS. I've yet to hear about any of these things to be a truly real concern, and I doubt I will.

Which then brings up the question of why you looked this up in the first place. Why so hesitant? If anything, dreams, let alone lucid ones, should be the last thing on anyone's list of things too look up dangers for.

So basically it's my fault even though I never said there was any scientific evidence and just asked for opinions. It's my fault those potential thousands of people don't know how to carefully look over my post? I never said it HAS to be true, you're putting words in my mouth to try and support your point . I said " I mean, like anything, too much of a "good" thing can be bad." I'm questioning it, and I'm definitely not held responsible for other people's possible illiteracy.
PS: I looked it up because I heard people talk about experiencing exhaustion while lucid dreaming.

Wasn't meant as a personal attack? I could see if you said everything...maybe without the "dislike" part.

Tempers are a bit heated, I get that. Luciel, I realize that you didn't mean any harm by posting this, and that you do just want people to be informed, but this article is about as fair and balanced as Fox News. Puffin is angry because you posted a huge article that masquerades as a reliable source, which is possibly scaring off the lurkers who don't have a decent bullshit detector.

You don't even know me yet you're starting to dislike me over a thread that does not in anyway say there's scientific proof of these occurrence? I don't appreciate that. Hell, they flat out tell you everything and are honest that they're just basically theories and not scientifically proven yet.

They do. The problem is that the article proceeds from that point with the assumption that there is a danger in lucid dreaming. Like Snowy Egypt said, it also assumes that lucid dreaming must be too good to be true, and there must be dangers associated with it.

Also, the "Controversial" heading should precede most of the statements in the article, not just the last few. And that's giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Besides, our so called "evidence" changes all the time. What may be proven now may be dismissed later or the other way around.

I'd like to introduce you to a concept known as the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The article itself admits that there is no evidence for the hypotheses that it posits. If there's no evidence, there's really no reason to believe it. There's really not a disclaimer big enough to portray that.

ETA:

So basically it's my fault even though I never said there was any scientific evidence and just asked for opinions. It's my fault those potential thousands of people don't know how to carefully look over my post? I never said it HAS to be true, you're putting words in my mouth to try and support your point . I said " I mean, like anything, too much of a "good" thing can be bad." I'm questioning it, and I'm definitely not held responsible for other people's possible illiteracy.
PS: I looked it up because I heard people talk about experiencing exhaustion while lucid dreaming.

You should really stop defending the article. We are, actually, a little worried about all of the newbies/lurkers lacking up-to-date bullshit detectors. Like you, for instance.

Actually, can we stop blaming Luciel for the content? He didn't start making objectionable comments until well into the thread.

Edit the OP, put it in QUOTE/QUOTE tags, and link to the original article on WikiBooks. That's common courtesy anywhere on the internet.

Stephen LaBerge, the person who has perhaps done the most research of lucid dreaming in recent decades and is often considered THE expert in lucid dreaming, has this to say about the dangers of lucid dreaming. Most of the things in the OP are explained.

TLDR, there are no dangers to lucid dreaming, according to all the evidence and study so far. Wikibooks link with no sources is not a good source. It is likely written by biased and ignorant people who have not even bothered to read the current scientific literature on the subject, let alone actually study lucid dreaming themselves (I'm talking scientific experimentation here).

If a person has a completely distorted or shattered sense of reality in the first place (i.e. severely delusional, schizophrenic), lucid dreaming may or may not play a negative role but lucid dreaming certainly does NOT cause any sort of mental illness, period. But again, if you are severely delusional or schizophrenic, you shouldn't even be allowed to drive a car, care for children ect. ect.

If anything, LDing makes you MORE aware of the difference between dreams and reality. Most dreamers believe that their dreams are real until they wake up. A great lucid dreamer always knows what is a dream and what is reality, and they carefully test reality. At the very worst, a lucid dreamer will slip and believe a dream is real. But they will never believe reality is a dream--as I said, they are more capable than a normal person at telling the difference, not the other way around.

Dissociation has nothing to do with LDing. Being lucid means being aware of your environment. If you are in a dissociative state you are less aware of your environment and you feel completely detached from it. A lucid dreamer is able to observe the world objectively and logically, but they are actually MORE engaged with reality because things like reality testing and cultivating awareness require this.

"Probably the most common form of dissociation involves having problems distinguishing your waking memories from dream memories. Everyone who recalls at least one dream will have to sort out their dreams from reality in the morning. "

The author of the article clearly has NO idea what dissociation even IS. And the second sentence there basically implies that even NORMAL dreams are "bad" and will make you unable to tell what is real and what's not. If someone wakes up in the morning and has serious issues sorting out their dream recall from real life--it's NOT the dreams or lucid dreaming. That would merely be a symptom of a far more serious mental problem that is not caused by dreaming or lucid dreaming.

As for alienation....so what? It's not well-known yet. Most people have at least one hobby that is not well known or considered weird by everyone else. Inception among other things is bringing lucid dreaming into mainstream society.

And of course there are the controversial dangers...I won't waste my time on them. Most of them are horribly illogical, aside from having no evidence at all. In fact everything in the article is extremely illogical, and at some points the article isn't even coherent.

Originally Posted by Luciel

So basically it's my fault even though I never said there was any scientific evidence and just asked for opinions. It's my fault those potential thousands of people don't know how to carefully look over my post? I never said it HAS to be true, you're putting words in my mouth to try and support your point . I said " I mean, like anything, too much of a "good" thing can be bad." I'm questioning it, and I'm definitely not held responsible for other people's possible illiteracy.

Did I say it was you fault? Nope. All I said was that you posted it, and all I asked was why you looked it up. Was I referencing YOUR post being the cause of the potential loss of future dreamers? Nope. I was referencing the ARTICLE. It's not your fault is it? Nope. It's whoever wrote that BS-tastic article with no backing both potentially and scientifically.

The article should never have been posted (regardless of proper citation or "controversial" labelling) because as Samael said, some people don't have bullshit detectors. The posting of the article itself doesn't bother me because people make mistakes, but the fact that it's deterring people and is being defended so strongly, I think we should all take a time-out and just cool down a bit. This is getting pretty confrontational; Luciel is probably feeling attacked.

I am occasionally (slightly) worried about potential dangers of lucid dreaming, and I think there is slightly too much hostility towards discussing these things. I agree that there are no major risks -- we would have seen them by now. And I also agree the article is nonsense. However, I do wonder if lucid dreaming can have some (negative?) impact on certain memory-related processes that go on during sleep. I don't know enough about sleep and dreams to justify this, but I would be curious to see if anything has been written on the topic.

Only possible danger I can see is if you are awake but kinda tired and you are on the top of a skyscraper and you see a flying pig and you realize how out of place that would be and automatically assume you are dreaming then jump off of the building and plummet to your death.

But that all comes down to seeing the flying pig so highly unlikely.

And by the definition of lucid dreaming you are AWARE that you are DREAMING that means you wont think it is real later because you KNOW it was a dream.

I can tell my storie, that i think other users of LD could eksperiance.
My friend die are couppel years ago, and I was in deep gref. I found out how to meet this person in my LD, and spend time with her.

When I found out of this, my life was all about dreaming, and meeting her. At last, it allmost maked my insane, I convinse my self that she actually was real and not are part of my subconscious. My life was on are standby, when I was awake i thinked about the night before end the night to come. And if I diden´t had are LD i thoght that she was mad at me, and diden´t wan´t to see me.

Now I can see that I was totally out of my mind. I belive other persons can eksperience this, and i wan´t to make are warning. It can get really diffucult to see what´s real and what´s is not.

Sorry for my spelling, i´m not good at english. Hope you understand :-D

Just because it's peer reviewed doesn't mean it's legit. I was looking for any articles that metioned lucid dreaming and are from peer-reviewed journals and found stuff concering OBE's and spiritual healing and psychic healing and other stuff like that (no offence to anyone who believes that stuff). And I have no idea how you guys suddenly thought lucid dreaming might be dangerous to somone who is mentally ill. I do believe that there is evidence of virtual reality systems helping with PTSD (usally used on people in the military) and how virtual reality systems can help people with phobias, but virtual reality systems are hard to come by and are pricey, and maybe lucid dreaming can be a cheaper form of this virtual reality. I was reading an abstract of a case study (couldn't find the whole article and couldn't find the researcher's email) about, well I don't wanna summarize this.

"Presents a case report of a 39-year-old male presented to the emergency department with a history of five suicide attempts in a week. He had three previous admissions to psychiatric wards with varying diagnoses including depression, PTSD and alcohol dependence. He would awaken after 2 hours from a nightmare and find it extremely difficult to return to sleep. These nightmares usually revisited one of a number of traumatic incidents which he had witnessed in his life. He was commenced on an alcohol withdrawal scale (AWS) which was ceased after 5 days. He was prescribed 200 mg quetiapine nocte and 100 mg fluvoxamine mane. Initially he was using considerable amounts of prn temazepam (20 mg nocte) and chlorpromazine (300 mg daily). He was then instructed to write out his dreams on awakening, and to then reimagine them as he tried to fall back asleep. After several days of this, he began to become aware of the fact that he was dreaming in his dreams when he had a nightmare, and then changed the dream so that it was more pleasant. The nightmares did not bother him as much, his sleep improved, and he was able to sleep 6 hours without awakening as a result of nightmares, with no medication. It is not clear to what degree the psychoeducation contributed to his improvement, but the patient was adamant it was the primary factor in his improvement."

I feel like I should cite this or something (study done by Greg Been and Vikas Garg from some mental institution in Australia)... anyway there was another report that wasn't conclusive but was talking about if lucid dreaming could cause apnea (stop breathing during the dream) and seemed to be just making conclusions and there was no experimentation to prove that not breathing in a lucid dream can couse sleep apnea (assumptions made by Staish C. Rao Mayo Clinic in Minnesota).

Here's a study that specifically studied the relationship between nightmare's and lucid dreaming.

"Abstract
Background: The goal of this pilot study was to evaluate
the effects of the cognitive-restructuring technique ‘lucid dreaming treatment’ (LDT) on chronic nightmares. Becoming lucid (realizing that one is dreaming) during a nightmare allows one to alter the nightmare storyline during the nightmare itself. Methods: After having fi lled out a sleep and a posttraumatic stress disorder questionnaire, 23 nightmare sufferers were randomly divided into 3 groups; 8 participants received one 2-hour individual LDT session, 8 participants received one 2-hour group LDT session, and 7 participants were placed on the waiting list. LDT consisted of exposure, mastery, and lucidity exercises. Participants fi lled out the same questionnaires 12 weeks after the intervention (follow-up). Results: At follow-up the nightmare frequency of both treatment groups had decreased. There were no significant changes in sleep quality and posttraumatic stress disorder symptom severity. Lucidity was not necessary for a reduction in nightmare frequency. Conclusions: LDT seems effective in reducing nightmare frequency, although the primary therapeutic component (i.e. exposure, mastery, or lucidity) remains unclear."

This study done by Victor I. Spoormaker and Jan van den Bout from Netherlands.

There was also an abstract which I thought was kind of silly (talked about the relationship of NDE's and LD's and something called dream yoga) but very intergering and was able to find the researchers email and ask them about the study. No reply yet but the abstract was

"This article brings together three areas of research on disembodied consciousness: death, near-death, and dreaming. Research on lucid dreaming suggests that there is a close connection between consciousness in the dream state and that experienced in dying. More specifically, it is dream yoga as a special form of lucid dreaming that relates to the near-death experience (NDE) as the occasion for encounter with the clear light. The author discusses the meaning of the clear light in dream yoga and in the NDE in order to inquire into the interpretation of its role in spiritual emancipation."

Study done by Raymond Lee of Maylasia. Also all the above were peer-reviewed and I take no credit for any of these studies don't sue please and thanks.

Also @ Alt Ateist, yea I could imagine that happening, even though there was no research on this subject for some reason (probaly because there arn't as many people who even know about lucid dreaming, and even if they do few can ld well enough to do this, I know my lding skills suck at least :-()

Sry for long post.

Only danger I'm facing with lucid dreaming is being committed to a mad house if I keep mentioning it to people who don't share the ability.
People tend to completely dismiss LDs (and any dream at all) as unimportant. So when I talk about it, they react in all sorts of agressive ways. And it's really hard, because it counts for about a 3rd of my life time and I have to pretend that it doesn't happen!!!
It is especially hard wiith my loved ones, with whom I speak everyday but with whom I have to avoid this subject. If I talk about it to my dad he says I should see a shrink, as I'm losing contact with reality. If I talk about it to my BF he gets mad at me that I don't shut up with this dream BS. if I talk to my mom, who is a spiritual person, she seems worried and afraid of whatever forces I might be playing with. So, yeah, I feel alienated!
But the dangers of LDing don't come from LDing in itself, but from the persecution that LDers face in today's society.

Originally Posted by Mayatara

Only danger I'm facing with lucid dreaming is being committed to a mad house if I keep mentioning it to people who don't share the ability.
People tend to completely dismiss LDs (and any dream at all) as unimportant. So when I talk about it, they react in all sorts of agressive ways. And it's really hard, because it counts for about a 3rd of my life time and I have to pretend that it doesn't happen!!!
It is especially hard wiith my loved ones, with whom I speak everyday but with whom I have to avoid this subject. If I talk about it to my dad he says I should see a shrink, as I'm losing contact with reality. If I talk about it to my BF he gets mad at me that I don't shut up with this dream BS. if I talk to my mom, who is a spiritual person, she seems worried and afraid of whatever forces I might be playing with. So, yeah, I feel alienated!
But the dangers of LDing don't come from LDing in itself, but from the persecution that LDers face in today's society.

If you explain the process of LDing scientifically to people, there's no reason why they should think you're crazy. It's not you, it's them for not taking two seconds to consider the possibility that they just haven't heard about it before. Sure, talking about "dreams" can come across as stupid and pointless and make one look like an escapist, but you're the only person you need to convince. Like I said - if people think you're weird, it's not your fault because you've done the research, know it's legitimate yourself, and the likes. I personally don't care if people consider me "weird" for LDing.

I don't think most of this is true. Even if any of it is, not a problem for me yet, since I don't have lucid dreams regularly. But I will try to keep this thread in mind, just in case.

Sorry if someone already said this, but it's kind of impossible to become addicted to lucid dreaming. You only have a certain amount of REM sleep time, so it's not like you could spend all of your time doing it...

Originally Posted by Mayatara

Only danger I'm facing with lucid dreaming is being committed to a mad house if I keep mentioning it to people who don't share the ability.
People tend to completely dismiss LDs (and any dream at all) as unimportant. So when I talk about it, they react in all sorts of agressive ways. And it's really hard, because it counts for about a 3rd of my life time and I have to pretend that it doesn't happen!!!
It is especially hard wiith my loved ones, with whom I speak everyday but with whom I have to avoid this subject. If I talk about it to my dad he says I should see a shrink, as I'm losing contact with reality. If I talk about it to my BF he gets mad at me that I don't shut up with this dream BS. if I talk to my mom, who is a spiritual person, she seems worried and afraid of whatever forces I might be playing with. So, yeah, I feel alienated!
But the dangers of LDing don't come from LDing in itself, but from the persecution that LDers face in today's society.

It's the same thing you get from people if you mention you're interested in psychology or philosophy: blank stares and a rapid change of subject. You have to come to terms with the fact that you share your planet with people who are mostly happy to sleepwalk through their life without trying to experience life to the full.

I agree 100 percent with Puffin. These negating topics greatly disappoint me when I see someone has posted disinformation and manage to draw so many people into it. For those who say they are terrified of false awakenings... Most of us are not, but it is easy to get out of a series of false awakenings just as it is easy to get out of Sleep Paralysis. If you want to leave the dream state altogether, Lucidity, SP, false awakenings, ect. All you have to do is take very long deep breaths in and out repeatedly for about 5-10 seconds. Your mind/body notices the difference in response, and will leave the state altogether. This is why getting excited in dreams usually ends them, changes in the body states, heart rate, breathing, ect. So there is nothing to be afraid of and you are likely to see that lucid dreaming will be a great stepping stone forward in your life and spirituality.

theres crazy stuff in the news about the guy who shot the congresswoman in arizona being all into lucid dreaming.

*shakes head*

ryan hurd has done a good counter article:
Jared Loughner and Lucid Dreaming | The Dream Studies Portal