Psychiatrist Dr. Armand Schachter says lucid dreams are abnormal, secondary to brain disease.

[Treboreous]

Psychiatrist Dr. Armand Schachter at Grayson and associates says lucid dreaming is “abnormal, secondary to medication, secondary to brain disease, where you don’t want to have lucid dreaming. You want to dream only when you are unconscious. “ See video at : Fact Finder: Lucid Dreams | Alabama's 13 Dr. Schachter’s page at Grayson and associates: Armand Schachter - Psychiatrists - Grayson & Associates Not sure if links work, you may have to copy and paste. What do you all think of this?

[patrick45]

Well, I call BS. we all know here that lucid dreaming is one of the most amazing experiences you can have. Who is he to say it's unnatural? it's our brain, and it's certainly NOT a disease.

[Original Poster]

Sounds like he has no clue what a lucid dream is. He's making assumptions about something he's probably never experienced. He's claiming a Lucid Dream indicates you aren't unconscious and your brain isn't resting enough, but anyone who's ever WILDed knows your body goes fully asleep and your cognitive mind is in the same state as a regular dream, whether or not you are aware that you're dreaming at the time. He's basing this on the pretense that cognition/consciousness/awareness is in the brain, like there's some particular part of the brain controlling our consciousness which requires rest. Sounds like he needs to take a class in Neuroscience.

[Linkzelda]

Yeah, this is like saying that people that can do shared dreaming can make others incapable of dreaming again, which is really just nonsense. Lucid dreaming, and going beyond that (Astral/OBEs) are phenomenons that science is still behind on finding because society doesn't view dreaming as something useful. It looks like this guy is just one of those nuts that wants you to be confined solely on waking life, don't believe them, they're challenging something that they can't even have a grasp on anyway.

[Hohenheim]

Due to my ignorance on this subject matter, I can not say for certain whether or not I would agree with Dr. Armand Schachter. What I would like to know is the in depth reasoning behind his statement. He says lucid dreams don't happen while one is fully sleeping, thus preventing you from resting properly. I fail to see how that statement relates to what he also said stateing that lucid dreaming is secondary to medication and brain desiese. I also fail to see how the fact that lucid dreaming is an abnormality has to do with it being a bad thing. Genius inventors could be seen as abnormal and thus a bad thing, according to his logic. I fail to see the logic in that. Can anyone post any more of what Dr. Armand has to about lucid dreaming. I wan't to understand his logic behind it and I refuse to be like the people who say "He is an expert, so he must be right." That thinking is poisoness. Even the experts can be wrong. From what I heard him say in the video, all I can get out of that video is lucid dreaming make people tired. I don't even agree with that becuase on mornings when I lucid dream I wake up refreshed. I "cant wait" to find out more about what lucid dreaming has to do with brain desiese and medication. I also "cant wait" to find out how the fact that it is abnormal has anything to do with it being a bad thing.

[Oneiro]

.. your cognitive mind is in the same state as a regular dream, whether or not you are aware that you're dreaming at the time. So you never had a lucid dream, then?

[Puffin]

I'm pretty sure everyone has had an LD in their life, but their recall was just too poor to remember it. So is everyone abnormal if LDing is such a bad occurence as they say?

[Hukif]

lol why does he not cite the experiments done in "brain resting" with LDers and normal dreamers?

[Fuzzman]

I think he's full of it. He states how because you're conscious while dreaming you aren't getting enough rest, but that's just ridiculous, you get the majority of your rest from the 4 other stages of sleep. REM only takes up about 1/4 of your sleep, and your brain waves during are so similar to being awake because the waves are fast and active, while the other 4 stages are slower and relaxed (hence deep sleep). During lucid dreaming your brain waves show a majority of the fastest brain waves (Beta waves), while non-lucid shows more Alpha waves, which are slightly less active. I think lucid dreaming is beneficial in that sense because you're in a similar state of mind as being fully awake and it is a way to stimulate awareness which carries over during the day. It's like exercise for your brain The only way I could see it being too detrimental to rest is if you're constantly lucid in every dream and you get very little sleep. Then maybe it would have some negative effects; I think as long as you balance it your mind and body can handle it.

[rbear71]

if he only knew how it can be... all that power... he would practice it as well...

[BeeClock]

Some people try to use pseudo-science or biased scientific research to back up fear. People have the tendency to be afraid of the unknown (lucid dreaming is unknown to many), and that can always have a significant negative impact on their perception of things. So I strongly disagree with this scientist.

[cytotoxicT]

"We typically have them when we're sleeping. One might have a couple a night or none at all. We're talking about dreams" Well right off the bat, the news people say that some people don't have dreams at night...I think those are the people we should be worrying about. haha. This obviously isn't true and maybe they should have run that by their "expert" before airing this. Most of us don't LD enough where, even if it did cause us to lose rest (probably doesn't), it wouldn't have much of an impact. I wake up feeling so excited it makes up for the 5-15 min of REM I would "lose". If LDing is secondary to brain disease....that does not mean LDing is necessarily bad or it says you have a disease. People with schizophrenia are more likely to smoke cigarettes but smoking does not mean you are schizophrenic. And abnormal does not mean bad. An IQ of 140 is abnormal...living to 100 is abnormal. Some abnormal is good. I'm pretty sure that is how evolution works. This is why I don't look to Alabama for my science info....

[patrick45]

"We typically have them when we're sleeping. One might have a couple a night or none at all. We're talking about dreams" Well right off the bat, the news people say that some people don't have dreams at night...I think those are the people we should be worrying about. haha. This obviously isn't true and maybe they should have run that by their "expert" before airing this. Most of us don't LD enough where, even if it did cause us to lose rest (probably doesn't), it wouldn't have much of an impact. I wake up feeling so excited it makes up for the 5-15 min of REM I would "lose". If LDing is secondary to brain disease....that does not mean LDing is necessarily bad or it says you have a disease. People with schizophrenia are more likely to smoke cigarettes but smoking does not mean you are schizophrenic. And abnormal does not mean bad. An IQ of 140 is abnormal...living to 100 is abnormal. Some abnormal is good. I'm pretty sure that is how evolution works. This is why I don't look to Alabama for my science info.... Sums up what I think of this as well. GJ!!!

[Original Poster]

So you never had a lucid dream, then? What gave you that idea?

[Burke]

"Lucid dreaming: the ability to control or direct your own dreams." This is where I knew they did not know completely what they were talking about. Lucid dreaming is simply being aware, not necessarily controlling them. "Because they happen when you aren't fully asleep, which means your aren't resting as you should be." So REM is no longer being fully asleep? Their "facts" are all wrong. These people are full of it. Lucid dreaming is completely harmless to you. Even if they were dangerous in any way, what's 5 minutes out of 8 hours? Edit: I was actually considering contacting this man through email but it seems they do not have any contact listed other than phone numbers. I would've been very interested in discussing this with him but it would be quite difficult explaining a long call to Alabama right out of the blue .