Thread: is lucid dreaming considered as an ability ?

Im Not sure but, it's a rare skill or somewhat too difficult if not experience yet.Lucidity is a Mind Discipline and Meditation and always requires skills and Mastery to Control and Perceiving what is a Dream and What is a Real World.

It's considered a skill, yeah. It can also be a natural ability...some people are born with the ability to do it.

Yeah I have a friend who is naturally lucid

i'm having a research about lucid dreaming. I have to prove that it is an ability. can anyone help me with this ?

Originally Posted by katrinaduena

i'm having a research about lucid dreaming. I have to prove that it is an ability. can anyone help me with this ?

Like you have to prove that lucid dreaming is actually possible?

uhm. somewhat like that. our thesis statement is that, everyone is capable of experiencing lucid dreaming. Then we have four arguments. 1. lucid dreaming is an ability. 2. lucid dreaming can be learned. 3. lucid dreaming occurs naturally 4. lucid dreaming is safe. I have a hard time writing the draft for my argument which is lucid dreaming is an ability. I've surf the internet and i keep reading the definition of lucid dreaming as the ability of bla bla bla. how can i say that it is really an ability?

Originally Posted by katrinaduena

uhm. somewhat like that. our thesis statement is that, everyone is capable of experiencing lucid dreaming. Then we have four arguments. 1. lucid dreaming is an ability. 2. lucid dreaming can be learned. 3. lucid dreaming occurs naturally 4. lucid dreaming is safe. I have a hard time writing the draft for my argument which is lucid dreaming is an ability. I've surf the internet and i keep reading the definition of lucid dreaming as the ability of bla bla bla. how can i say that it is really an ability?

Hmmm...

Check out this page and this page. They give some good, scientific proof that lucid dreaming is a real ability. Hopefully that is kind of what you are looking for.

For your second argument, talk about the different techniques (DILD, WILD, MILD, WBTB, etc..) and how people go about learning how to lucid dream. Mention how people have gone from "dreamless" sleep (no dream recall) to getting a couple lucids in a short time. You can talk about how many people are interested in lucid dreaming and take the time to learn how to do it.

For the third one mention how there are many reports of people lucid dreaming without even trying. Just Google "Natural Lucid Dreamer" and you should be able to find a few examples. Also check out this article.

For your fourth one talk about how thousands of people lucid dream every night and there have been no dangerous effects related to lucid dreaming. click here.

Hope I was able to help you a bit!

thanks a lot

Everyone is not able of experiencing lucid dream so, I guess it is ability. If we want to control our dream or make it longer we have to do reality checks. This all can be done by who have the ability.

I hope it's an ability because my website's called LucidAbility, lol

It means a capacity to do something, or a talent. Sounds like lucid dreaming to me.

I did a bunch of research on this recently while writing a tutorial. Several noted scientists have published work on the subject, including Calvin S. Hall, Jie Zhang and Allan Hobson. Of course most people will also point out Stephen LaBerge though not all of his work seems credible.


This might help also:

^ Spoormaker,-Victor-I; van-den-Bout,-Jan (October 2006). "Lucid Dreaming Treatment for Nightmares: A Pilot Study". Psychotherapy-and-Psychosomatics 75 (6): 389–394. DOI:10.1159/000095446. PMID 17053341. "Conclusions: LDT seems effective in reducing nightmare frequency, although the primary therapeutic component (i.e. exposure, mastery, or lucidity) remains unclear."

Originally Posted by katrinaduena

1. lucid dreaming is an ability. 2. lucid dreaming can be learned. 3. lucid dreaming occurs naturally 4. lucid dreaming is safe.

1) Anecdotally;
2) Anecdotally;
3) Anecdotally;
4) Alleged by some, denied by others.

Originally Posted by melanieb

I did a bunch of research on this recently while writing a tutorial. Several noted scientists have published work on the subject, including Calvin S. Hall, Jie Zhang and Allan Hobson.. Stephen LaBerge..

They're all from psychology and/or psychiatry. That's not science.

That's the problem with their evidence: it's not scientific, reliant as it is on human statement (anecdote) and a very small sample size. Where are the replications? How many 1000s of them are there?

This pseudo-science is the very reason why mainstream science yawns and ignores.. and who could blame them?

Originally Posted by Oneiro

They're all from psychology and/or psychiatry. That's not science.

That's the problem with their evidence: it's not scientific, reliant as it is on human statement (anecdote) and a very small sample size. Where are the replications? How many 1000s of them are there?

This pseudo-science is the very reason why mainstream science yawns and ignores.. and who could blame them?

I directly admit that most of the work is based on people's experiences, which are notoriously unreliable. However, much of scientific knowledge started out as a theory, many of which are difficult to test. Scientists are still trying to search for a conclusive marker, some evidence that could irrefutably prove that something measurable is happening in the brain when people lucid dream that is different from a normal dream. They've come up with some promising ideas, but lacking a basic health-need to prove lucid dreaming exists prevents it from being accepted as worthy of serious investigation by neurologists worldwide.

We just don't yet know enough about the brain to find the evidence.

But that doesn't mean it isn't real.

And what really matters is this:

Grounded in scientific method, psychology has the immediate goal of understanding individuals and groups by both establishing general principles and researching specific cases, and for many it ultimately aims to benefit society. In this field, a professional practitioner or researcher is called a psychologist, and can be classified as a social scientist, behavioral scientist, or cognitive scientist. Psychologists attempt to understand the role of mental functions in individual and social behavior, while also exploring the physiological and neurobiological processes that underlie certain cognitive functions and behaviors.



Besides, why are we here if we aren't actually experiencing what we describe?

Just because it's anecdotal today doesn't make it not real. Many years ago some people had this strange idea that the Sun revolved around the Earth but it sure was hard to convince people...

Originally Posted by melanieb

I directly admit that most of the work is based on people's experiences, which are notoriously unreliable.

Most of the work? All of it.

Originally Posted by melanieb

Grounded in scientific method, psychology has the immediate goal of understanding individuals and groups by both establishing general principles and researching specific cases, and for many it ultimately aims to benefit society. In this field, a professional practitioner or researcher is called a psychologist, and can be classified as a social scientist, behavioral scientist, or cognitive scientist. Psychologists attempt to understand the role of mental functions in individual and social behavior, while also exploring the physiological and neurobiological processes that underlie certain cognitive functions and behaviors.

Is this a copy-and-paste? It reads like a PR article, trying to "big up" non-science. Nobody I know in the scientific and medical community "classifies" Psychology as science. The only people who do are the psychologists themselves, in an attempt to aggrandise their own standing... and renew their funding, of course.

Back to the OP:

"how can prove that lucid dreaming is an ability ? "

Here's the answer:

Originally Posted by melanieb

We just don't yet know enough about the brain to find the evidence.

It can't be 'proved'.

Though I worry for all those who take the stance of it's a special ability; a defeatist attitude. An easy way to give up trying.

Some people do experience lucid dreams unconditionally without recourse to techniques, supplements, and sleeping habits - yes, it could be argued that such people have an innate advantageous disposition. Purely on the grounds that they have never endeavored to have them.

However, a large portion of those on this site have lucid dreams from diligently practicing the techniques offered here. Taking the supplements. And sleeping right. Before this, they may have spontaneously experienced one or two during childhood. Furthermore, clarity, control and success rate increase as one does the aforementioned frequently, thus implying it can be trained and brought about.

If it is an 'ability', then I believe it is a potential all humans possess insofar as implying that every human has the ability to dream. It's really not that far-fetched.

Heh, my cognitive psychologist professor disbelieved in lucid dreaming. An idiot.

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

Some people do experience lucid dreams unconditionally without recourse to techniques, supplements, and sleeping habits -

The evidence for this is anecdote, prevalent on the internet.

Not reliable.

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

However, a large portion of those on this site have lucid dreams from diligently practicing the techniques offered here.

Anecdotal.

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

It can't be 'proved'.

Now you're getting there.

Are you an idiot? I'm showing that the trends suggest a particular answer. Hence why I began with it can't be proved.

I can only assume you've yet to experience lucid dreaming. Though I understand your skepticism if true - much like me then attempting to believe in dream sharing.

It's not me who's the idiot: it's those who believe others, just because they say so.

Assume away.

BTW How old are you?

I don't see what the issue is here. One cannot conclusively argue that lucid dreaming is an ability or that it is not an ability.

Therefore, all arguments are necessarily opinion-based. A mass of opinions can build trends suggesting the more likely answer, though this does not necessitate a certainty.

Edit: 26, you? Forgive me for my hostility, I'm usually chilled out. Since sexual abstinence, however..... :/

I wish to clarify: are you arguing against believing in the existence/non-existence of lucid dreaming (from anecdotes) or against whether one can determine if lucid dreaming is a skill/innate ability (from anecdotes)?

This thread took an odd turn from the OP.

Why are we idiots because we believe others? I know what I experience and so many others experience exactly what I describe without ever having met me or listening to my descriptions of experiences. My experiences were never based on reading anything, I had them all years before I ever came here or looked up any information on dreams.

So why are we idiots? Because we all experience something that we don't know how to scientifically explain? There are a lot of things humans experience that can't be scientifically explained (diseases, mutations, behaviors), yet we don't treat those as merely anecdotal.

Why are we idiots?

If we are idiots, why are you here?

What bearing does Wolfwood's age have on this conversation?

What is your age, Oneiro?

I want to know your thoughts and answers to these questions. I want to know what motivates you to post the replies you have.

I read over a bunch of your posts, and your profile, so I know you have experienced a lucid dream (according to your own words). Your posts suggest trouble trusting the opinions of others and a university experience that left you with a distaste for behavioral sciences.

I'm just curious. I don't want you to read this wrong and think I'm bothered. There isn't any emotion in my words. I'm just curious when I see posts like this, particularly when people start bringing up age. I never understood why age mattered. I'm hoping your reply will shed some light on that.

I look forward to your reply!

lol I always end up entering a thread, and then it turns a bit hostile. >.< Am I really that bad?

Nonetheless, from the basis of his argument, he wouldn't 'believe' in qualia because 'greenness' cannot be proved. Yet, we all 'believe' in greenness because of our apparent direct experience of it. I have to assume your experience of greenness is what I experience too. Is this not more likely, given that we all share similar biology, rather than assuming the inverse?

Im sorry but half the posts on this thread are way over complicated and dont actaully help the OP. Im sure we all agree that lucid dreaming is an ability as thousands of people all around the world share the experience whether they are naturals or they thaught themselves.
Its safe to assume this unlike with dream sharing becuase:
- its not exactly occult, its just awareness in a dream.
- thousands of people share the experience
- we only ever hear from people who cant LD when they have an illness or other problem.

Denying these points becuase they are based on anecdotal evidence is idiotic. If thousands of people can do it, it's an ability until its proven its not.

I would definitely suggest reviewing Stephen LaBerge's research. I did a paper last fall on this subject and found a lot of research that may not prove it, but definitely suggests that something is going on during the REM cycle. People have signaled to the waking world and what not. This may be some amatuer research on my part though, but it seemed legit to me. I wish I still had the websites that I used. I deleted the bookmarks after I was finished with my paper. Unfortunately my paper didn't have to be very detailed or prove anything, it was basically an informative. Hope this helps. Good luck.

In my opinion, I find it hard to believe people have doubts with all of the research on lucid dreaming. Why would people make some site dedicated to some fake ability? You know? There are so many users and experiences that are so similar. I don't think it's some special ability. I think it's something that happens naturally, even when people try, it's just natural. I hope this was relevant.