Thread: I seem to be a lost cause.

Hi,

don't worry, we will do our best to help you.

I would suggest you clear your head and start from scratch.

I would start with DILD and I would gave it at least 3 weeks. Here is an article about how to add daytime awareness question to your RCs and mantra. Together with intent and excitement, they are very powerful tools. Please ask any questions about it in that thread, or you can make a new thread in DILD class and I'll be able to give you personalized guidance.

When you have time for WBTB, you can try a WILD, but really, don't overextend yourself. Later, when you had some success with DILDs, you can go for both at the same time. But until then, I would really concentrate on just one technique. Happy dreams

Let's see if we can make some headway for you.

You mention being tired in the morning. Are you getting enough sleep? Are you waking in the night or staying up late? That's my first question.

Are you trying WILD right when you first go to bed? WILD really only works well after 5 to 6 hours of sleep using WBTB or during a sleepy-time nap. You need to be close to a good REM period for WILD to be successful.

Why so desperate? Sometimes trying too hard can lead to failures. I suggest working on getting quality sleep and boosting your recall before even trying any methodology. All the methods and tutorials in the world won't help if you aren't getting quality sleep and can't recall your dreams in detail.

Report back and we'll build on your responses.

Listen to Melanie
Routinely getting inadequate sleep impairs cognitive functions and memory.

If you are doing the work and not getting results, while also feeling tired when you wake up, you need to change your patterns. (haha, look at me being one to talk, it's 2:30am and I need to get up at 8am)

Since you are not adverse to doing work you could try.
1) No computer screen 45-60 minutes before sleep time.
2) Read during that time
3) When reading time is over, silent image stream to yourself (you now have the wonderful world of theta state to explore)

Remember the above is not meant to make you lucid, it is meant to make you get into a good sleep cycle.
Once you are feeling rested when you wake up, try lucid dream techniques again.

I agree with everything said above. I'm currently not getting enough sleep (this will change tonight) but because of this I barely remember 2 dreams a night

It may be that you're trying too hard. I know I've done that in the past and it promptly killed my recall for about a month. There is a fine balance between enough effort and too much

Another thing is for some people it does take time and patience. I joined in August 2011 but didn't start having LD's regularly until late December early January

Keep trying, I know it's hard to be patient after your first set of lucids but you'll get there

I agree with everyone too, work on getting stable sleeping schedule, don't give up and keep trying.
To add more, during WILD you don't need to be in uncomfortable position or to concentrate on waiting that much, WILD is just about falling asleep while being aware, read the tutorial that gab linked to, lots of useful in-depth information about WILDing there.
And be sure to get this 'never get anywhere' thought out of your head, confidence is important for getting lucid dream, think positive and believe that you will have lucid dream tonight!

Loads of good advice here.

Don't give up. It took over 8 months for my first LD - then I started getting them quite often.

I feel that perhaps you are too awake when trying for WILD, have you tried reducing the wake time in WBTB?

I would also suggest doing mini meditation sessions during the day, let's say two sessions (not one after each other unless you feel like extending the time) for about ten mins. Just sit somewhere, relax, close your eyes, feel your breath, gently inhale and exhale. This helps boost awareness and will bring out some nice alpha brain waves to make you feel better. And it is short enough so you won't struggle to keep you mind quiet for a long time.

Keep it up, I find that the key to lucidity is persistence! Good luck!

Great advice has been given above for you

your obviously very worked up about it aswell and i personally see confidence as 1 of the most powerful tools in my LD

if you dont believe that you can achieve a lucid the chances are you wont unless accidental... tell yourself that you can LD everynight , follow the advice above, start again and be patient the first success is the hardest just like riding a bike. ride it once and you wont forget. Good luck

Sorry for being late in replying. I got alot more advice to take than I expected. Thank you!

Originally Posted by gab

Hi,

don't worry, we will do our best to help you.

I would suggest you clear your head and start from scratch.

I would start with DILD and I would gave it at least 3 weeks. Here is an article about how to add daytime awareness question to your RCs and mantra. Together with intent and excitement, they are very powerful tools. Please ask any questions about it in that thread, or you can make a new thread in DILD class and I'll be able to give you personalized guidance.

When you have time for WBTB, you can try a WILD, but really, don't overextend yourself. Later, when you had some success with DILDs, you can go for both at the same time. But until then, I would really concentrate on just one technique. Happy dreams

I do alot of DILD especially since I need to gain control in my dreams and my body wont cooperate with WILD. Ive yet to have one iota of control and it bugs me. Ive tried WBTB but waking up is miserable and Wilds are the same, only my eyes are heavier and i get uncomfortable faster.

QUOTE]

Originally Posted by melanieb

Let's see if we can make some headway for you.

You mention being tired in the morning. Are you getting enough sleep? Are you waking in the night or staying up late? That's my first question.

Are you trying WILD right when you first go to bed? WILD really only works well after 5 to 6 hours of sleep using WBTB or during a sleepy-time nap. You need to be close to a good REM period for WILD to be successful.

Why so desperate? Sometimes trying too hard can lead to failures. I suggest working on getting quality sleep and boosting your recall before even trying any methodology. All the methods and tutorials in the world won't help if you aren't getting quality sleep and can't recall your dreams in detail.

Report back and we'll build on your responses.

Ive stated the latter above, as for why, its hard to explain, but its immensely frustrating how nothing is cooperating with me, every method, even if working on it, but ive just lost patience over my incompetence, since my first lucid dream (i controlled thought but not action) I desired more

Originally Posted by OrionStyles

Listen to Melanie
Routinely getting inadequate sleep impairs cognitive functions and memory.

If you are doing the work and not getting results, while also feeling tired when you wake up, you need to change your patterns. (haha, look at me being one to talk, it's 2:30am and I need to get up at 8am)

Since you are not adverse to doing work you could try.
1) No computer screen 45-60 minutes before sleep time.
2) Read during that time
3) When reading time is over, silent image stream to yourself (you now have the wonderful world of theta state to explore)

Remember the above is not meant to make you lucid, it is meant to make you get into a good sleep cycle.
Once you are feeling rested when you wake up, try lucid dream techniques again.

I never felt my sleep cycle was inconsistent. I just hated waking up in the morning, regardless of sleep ive always fought myself mentally to stay awake, its like a mental problem but really im not a morning person though My sleeping is adequate. I sometimes meditate before bed but like this, i have severe issues in that regard, its exaughting not to get furious at myself sometimes

Originally Posted by djpatch999

I agree with everything said above. I'm currently not getting enough sleep (this will change tonight) but because of this I barely remember 2 dreams a night

It may be that you're trying too hard. I know I've done that in the past and it promptly killed my recall for about a month. There is a fine balance between enough effort and too much

Another thing is for some people it does take time and patience. I joined in August 2011 but didn't start having LD's regularly until late December early January

Keep trying, I know it's hard to be patient after your first set of lucids but you'll get there

Maybe it is, just thats all I can provide is determination as Ive gotten no where. dild is impossible as im severely idiotic and obliviously unaware in my dreams and my body just refuses to cooperate with me when I WILD.

Originally Posted by Checker666

I agree with everyone too, work on getting stable sleeping schedule, don't give up and keep trying.
To add more, during WILD you don't need to be in uncomfortable position or to concentrate on waiting that much, WILD is just about falling asleep while being aware, read the tutorial that gab linked to, lots of useful in-depth information about WILDing there.
And be sure to get this 'never get anywhere' thought out of your head, confidence is important for getting lucid dream, think positive and believe that you will have lucid dream tonight!

Its only on my back I dont sleep before i realize whats going on. I wouldnt have this though I actually did. 4-5 months into this i was very confident.

Originally Posted by NyxCC

I feel that perhaps you are too awake when trying for WILD, have you tried reducing the wake time in WBTB?

I would also suggest doing mini meditation sessions during the day, let's say two sessions (not one after each other unless you feel like extending the time) for about ten mins. Just sit somewhere, relax, close your eyes, feel your breath, gently inhale and exhale. This helps boost awareness and will bring out some nice alpha brain waves to make you feel better. And it is short enough so you won't struggle to keep you mind quiet for a long time.

Keep it up, I find that the key to lucidity is persistence! Good luck!

I actually do bursts of mediation throughout the day and it does feel like a dream only all of my energy is sucked to create a happy place. I want my subconscious to do that for me.

Originally Posted by lee1989

Great advice has been given above for you

your obviously very worked up about it aswell and i personally see confidence as 1 of the most powerful tools in my LD

if you dont believe that you can achieve a lucid the chances are you wont unless accidental... tell yourself that you can LD everynight , follow the advice above, start again and be patient the first success is the hardest just like riding a bike. ride it once and you wont forget. Good luck

Ive had confidence but not enough will. There is a point where you can be confident but if its hollow for so long it'll crack. I always did believe. I remember every night i would say this is the night. Like 130 nights in a row. :/ nothing, now im at an impasse

It really does sound like you are trying too hard.

Give it a break for a while perhaps? You might find it comes naturally, or at least that you can ease back into it when you've had a pause.

I would recommend a break from everything except recall. Try and get that to about 4 or 5 dreams a night. This will give you way more chances for LD and make you more aware in your normal dreams. You never said how many hours you sleep at night? 8 hours is the best thing in the world, do that for a month and see how well you feel in the mornings.

Have you checked out this WILD guide? beginners seem to have the best of luck with it:
Mzzkcs Comprehensive WILD Guide - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
Why You Fail at WILDs - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Sorry you're having trouble ... but I think everyone has given great advice. Don't give up! I've been trying to learn to lucid dream for probably more than a year now and I still haven't had many lucid experiences. And the few I've had have been very brief and I didn't have much control. I think part of the problem is that I give up for long periods of time, and also I often don't get enough sleep. But I still try to get myself on track and, at the very least, keep writing down my dreams. At least that helps me to improve my dream recall and I seem to be more aware in my dreams. And as others have said, being stressed out about it doesn't help. When I try to put too much pressure on myself then I don't remember my dreams at all. I hope you keep trying, and good luck!

Do you have any dream signs that in retrospect could trigger you? A nasty, dirty bathroom you find in a dream is a good one. It is common, and early on was my main trigger. Whatever it is, use as a trigger to RC during the day or something similar to it. Also WBTB needs to be tailored to you. If I am too tired I force myself to do a couple simple multiplications in my head (I do short WBTBs...bathroom break..so I can fall back to sleep but not drop off in 2 seconds when the head hits the bed, either. I think learning the best timing for you is important.

Originally Posted by Goldenspark

It really does sound like you are trying too hard.

Give it a break for a while perhaps? You might find it comes naturally, or at least that you can ease back into it when you've had a pause.

I dont feel like it's going to come naturally and if it does it'll wont be until I long since stopped trying and I dont wont that

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss

I would recommend a break from everything except recall. Try and get that to about 4 or 5 dreams a night. This will give you way more chances for LD and make you more aware in your normal dreams. You never said how many hours you sleep at night? 8 hours is the best thing in the world, do that for a month and see how well you feel in the mornings.

Have you checked out this WILD guide? beginners seem to have the best of luck with it:
Mzzkcs Comprehensive WILD Guide - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
Why You Fail at WILDs - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I've been memorizing about 2-3 dreams a night, i type what i can in the journal but im so delirious when I wake up that I put chunks in, My dreams are pretty vivid most days. 11-7 is my usual bed routine. Always have been. Ill check out the guide appreciate it immensely

Originally Posted by Brigid

Sorry you're having trouble ... but I think everyone has given great advice. Don't give up! I've been trying to learn to lucid dream for probably more than a year now and I still haven't had many lucid experiences. And the few I've had have been very brief and I didn't have much control. I think part of the problem is that I give up for long periods of time, and also I often don't get enough sleep. But I still try to get myself on track and, at the very least, keep writing down my dreams. At least that helps me to improve my dream recall and I seem to be more aware in my dreams. And as others have said, being stressed out about it doesn't help. When I try to put too much pressure on myself then I don't remember my dreams at all. I hope you keep trying, and good luck!

Thank you Brigid, that makes me feel a lot better knowing I'm not the only one having issues.

Originally Posted by Rothgar

Do you have any dream signs that in retrospect could trigger you? A nasty, dirty bathroom you find in a dream is a good one. It is common, and early on was my main trigger. Whatever it is, use as a trigger to RC during the day or something similar to it. Also WBTB needs to be tailored to you. If I am too tired I force myself to do a couple simple multiplications in my head (I do short WBTBs...bathroom break..so I can fall back to sleep but not drop off in 2 seconds when the head hits the bed, either. I think learning the best timing for you is important.

once or twice every hour I read the text on my wristband. I analyze the color and the words. In dreaming I don't think its likely they'll read the same letters or even have the same color. Im trying to convince myself to have the wristband blue in my dream.

I used to be tired all the time, especially in the mornings. I used to say that it was not because I did not get enough sleep and that I guess I am not a morning person.

Here is what changed for me:

I started exercising, especially Yoga. I reduced my caffeine drastically. I started analyzing my life and making all kinds of other self-improvement efforts. In my case that included memorizing spiritual songs, self analyzing any dreams I could remember, and other efforts some of which I discontinued and others I continued.

The results:

I am no longer tired in the morning. I am much less tired in general.

I am not sure any more whether there really is such a thing as "not a morning person" who is very tired in the morning but who gets adequate sleep. I would look for other explanations if I were you - you can always come back to the "just not a morning person" idea later if you cannot figure out a way to turn this around.

Morning time is an essential time for successful lucid dreaming, and if one is not at one's best in the morning that may be an issue. I think my mind and body are slowly healing from stress and stupor and whatnot, and once I am at my optimum in the morning, my chances of having successful lucid dreams will increase. I know I am so close already. I also think that back in the "too tired, not a morning person" days, I did not have a chance to lucid dream.

Originally Posted by JoannaB

I used to be tired all the time, especially in the mornings. I used to say that it was not because I did not get enough sleep and that I guess I am not a morning person.

Here is what changed for me:

I started exercising, especially Yoga. I reduced my caffeine drastically. I started analyzing my life and making all kinds of other self-improvement efforts. In my case that included memorizing spiritual songs, self analyzing any dreams I could remember, and other efforts some of which I discontinued and others I continued.

The results:

I am no longer tired in the morning. I am much less tired in general.

I am not sure any more whether there really is such a thing as "not a morning person" who is very tired in the morning but who gets adequate sleep. I would look for other explanations if I were you - you can always come back to the "just not a morning person" idea later if you cannot figure out a way to turn this around.

Morning time is an essential time for successful lucid dreaming, and if one is not at one's best in the morning that may be an issue. I think my mind and body are slowly healing from stress and stupor and whatnot, and once I am at my optimum in the morning, my chances of having successful lucid dreams will increase. I know I am so close already. I also think that back in the "too tired, not a morning person" days, I did not have a chance to lucid dream.

You underestimate how bad I am in the morning. I fight and fight just to walk and I end up hitting walls. I can't think straight, only get ready to head out. Im happy if I could get up when my alarm went off once. Just the deliriousness is overwhelming and its been that way for years. I try waking up an hour early to meditate but I dont have enough will and when I do I fall asleep absolutely dead, I never use caffeine (it never did a thing for me, regardless of portion). I don't know, Ill figure something out I hope.

I think you have pretty much nailed the problem, and others have pointed in the same direction, but I'll chip in just the same.

It seems to me, that your one big problem is poor sleep quality. Normally, most people will be well rested after 8 hours of sleep (though some need more, and some less), and you apparently get that much sleep, so the problem is more likely, that the "deep sleep" you get is somehow to shallow, too brief, or too disturbed.

My own experience is, that lack of deep sleep will render me fairly useless the following day, with symptoms similar to yours (though apparently less intense), and my prescription has always been going to bed early that following day (even as much as two hours early). This will normally rebalance me in one to two days.

On the other hand, there are also various herbal infusions, that will leave me feeling almost drugged the following day (Valerian and California Poppy), and which leaves me unable to recall dreams - or even make sense of them, while they are being played out. The lesson from this is, that not everything that one ingests will work in harmony with ones body and mind. You should probably review your evening food and drink-habits, and maybe experiment a little to see the effects.

Originally Posted by Aarix

You underestimate how bad I am in the morning. I fight and fight just to walk and I end up hitting walls. I can't think straight, only get ready to head out. Im happy if I could get up when my alarm went off once. Just the deliriousness is overwhelming and its been that way for years. I try waking up an hour early to meditate but I dont have enough will and when I do I fall asleep absolutely dead, I never use caffeine (it never did a thing for me, regardless of portion). I don't know, Ill figure something out I hope.

I did not underestimate by much. I remember the day I realized something needed to be done: my mother in a phone call nagged me to exercise, and I thought that she does not understand - the way I felt there was absolutely no way I could exercise. I had just gone back to bed after getting up on a Saturday. I had intended to change water in aquarium, but realized I could not do it despite the fact that the fish had been without fresh water for three times as long as usual. But it was too much effort. So I went back to bed instead. And while the past month at that point had been worse than usual, but I had been always tired for years, and I am not sure my husband remembers me when I was a morning person. I remembered though when I was a student in college I was.

For me my first step was the doctor's office, and I got three days worth of antibiotics for sinusitis. That took me back from being too tired to function to just plain to tired. My previous modus operandi would have been to just trudge on. But now I was on a self-improvement mission in part due to this forum and dreams making me realize that my existence was not good enough the way it was. I decided to live.

My previous attitude after tiring day of work was to retreat to the bedroom, lie down, retreat from my family, and consider that I was absolutely too tired to exercise.

Now when I am too tired, I think: I am too tired not to exercise. I need to do Yoga. I do Yoga on the Wii with my older son and occasionally my younger son, and sometimes he will switch from Yoga to martial arts like excercise like 25 minutes of punching.

And before I would have said that you do not understand the way I feel if you had suggested that I do this, but now I am doing it, and I am way more alive and aware in waking life than I used to be. For me the main thing was a change in attitude, a determination to overcome the mental fog and such. I didn't think I could do it. I thought that there was something seriously wrong with me health wise, but I avoided going to doctor afraid of diagnosis. Once I decided to try to fight it though, I now know I am healthy. I am still not 100% there, but the improvement is drastic. When people say that exercise is crucial, I used to ignore them, but they were right.

Now you may think you are different, I used to think I was. Have you tried exercise? Have you tried self-improvement and determination? I cannot guarantee it will work, but unless you try it, you cannot know. I thought I knew. I was wrong.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that you will think 25 minutes of punching is impossible. Of course it is. At first. I started with four minutes of Yoga. Stretching. A simple stretch would hurt me. And there was this stupid wii instructor telling me "can you feel your mind and body work together?" and I thought "yes, they are both protesting. I am never going to manage this." and yet I went on. I now try to exercise every day. Every other day at most. Even if it is just four minutes that's fine. I no longer feel my mind and body working against me. I am still not good, but I am so much better. I didn't think it was possible.

Originally Posted by JoannaB

I did not underestimate by much. I remember the day I realized something needed to be done: my mother in a phone call nagged me to exercise, and I thought that she does not understand - the way I felt there was absolutely no way I could exercise. I had just gone back to bed after getting up on a Saturday. I had intended to change water in aquarium, but realized I could not do it despite the fact that the fish had been without fresh water for three times as long as usual. But it was too much effort. So I went back to bed instead. And while the past month at that point had been worse than usual, but I had been always tired for years, and I am not sure my husband remembers me when I was a morning person. I remembered though when I was a student in college I was.

For me my first step was the doctor's office, and I got three days worth of antibiotics for sinusitis. That took me back from being too tired to function to just plain to tired. My previous modus operandi would have been to just trudge on. But now I was on a self-improvement mission in part due to this forum and dreams making me realize that my existence was not good enough the way it was. I decided to live.

My previous attitude after tiring day of work was to retreat to the bedroom, lie down, retreat from my family, and consider that I was absolutely too tired to exercise.

Now when I am too tired, I think: I am too tired not to exercise. I need to do Yoga. I do Yoga on the Wii with my older son and occasionally my younger son, and sometimes he will switch from Yoga to martial arts like excercise like 25 minutes of punching.

And before I would have said that you do not understand the way I feel if you had suggested that I do this, but now I am doing it, and I am way more alive and aware in waking life than I used to be. For me the main thing was a change in attitude, a determination to overcome the mental fog and such. I didn't think I could do it. I thought that there was something seriously wrong with me health wise, but I avoided going to doctor afraid of diagnosis. Once I decided to try to fight it though, I now know I am healthy. I am still not 100% there, but the improvement is drastic. When people say that exercise is crucial, I used to ignore them, but they were right.

Now you may think you are different, I used to think I was. Have you tried exercise? Have you tried self-improvement and determination? I cannot guarantee it will work, but unless you try it, you cannot know. I thought I knew. I was wrong.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that you will think 25 minutes of punching is impossible. Of course it is. At first. I started with four minutes of Yoga. Stretching. A simple stretch would hurt me. And there was this stupid wii instructor telling me "can you feel your mind and body work together?" and I thought "yes, they are both protesting. I am never going to manage this." and yet I went on. I now try to exercise every day. Every other day at most. Even if it is just four minutes that's fine. I no longer feel my mind and body working against me. I am still not good, but I am so much better. I didn't think it was possible.

Thank you very much for your insight

Hey Aarix, one thing you could try.....

buy the Zeo headband. I have one, and it's really useful for seeing how well you are sleeping and when your REM events are. If you always wake up feeling lousy, it could be that you have some sleep problems.

The Zeo is not cheap, but it is a personal EEG machine, so really is excellent value for money. It plots the stages of "Wake", "Light", "Deep" & "REM" sleep against time during the night.

I have also been experimenting with the android apps for LD'ing, but with very limited success so far.

It can at least wake you at the start of REM so you have the best chance to WBTB and WILD.

One of the big poisons when first learning to lucid dreams is.....expectations. When we set certain expectations that are then not met, it can really hurt our confidence.

That then triggers us to ask "what is wrong with me?" We might read around the forum and see how many people are LDing and get really down on ourselves. That then sends a message to our subconscious that we just aren't good enough to LD. Like a puppy, our subconscious obeys us and we fight ourself the whole way.

Be very conscious of your expectations and drop the comparisons or timeline for success. Let go of that frustration. I know it can be hard, but the frustration can really hinder progress greatly.

Originally Posted by LucidAcademy

One of the big poisons when first learning to lucid dreams is.....expectations. When we set certain expectations that are then not met, it can really hurt our confidence.

That then triggers us to ask "what is wrong with me?" We might read around the forum and see how many people are LDing and get really down on ourselves. That then sends a message to our subconscious that we just aren't good enough to LD. Like a puppy, our subconscious obeys us and we fight ourself the whole way.

Be very conscious of your expectations and drop the comparisons or timeline for success. Let go of that frustration. I know it can be hard, but the frustration can really hinder progress greatly.

I know it comes overtime, I havent realized as well how long it takes many others, Im working on keeping a strict consistent sleep schedule and making as much of an attempt to write in the journal as possible, still hard due to drowsiness. Ive been remembering dreams well, ive always been waking up in the middle of the night to streghenthen my awareness, now the only thing left to do is wait!

That's the right attitude . Keep a strong practice, focus on strengthening your awareness, and wait for the results that inevitably will come.

@ lucidacademy.

I agree that that works for a lot of people, but it is counter productive for me. I have to be monitoring my progress so I know how many LDs I have. My goal used to just be multiple dreams a night, then 1 LD a week. Then it just kept going up. I need competition to shine! If I don't have competition I have to compete against my former self!

This is just me though. I feel like everyone has a different way of learning, but no one takes the time to figure it out. If you have ever gotten good at something look at what made you good at it. Was it when you didn't pay attention and just went with what felt right? Was it when you set one goal? A couple goals? Was it when you had someone else there to compete with? These are questions to ask yourself and then apply it to whatever you learn.

Edit: expectations do play a big role no matter who you are. If I don't hit my expectations I do get down on myself and do better next time. Others can't get past getting down on themselves, others need to only look at the good.