Thread: Who or what should we blame for the lack of lucidity ?

Not having studied all the posts in depth - just jumping in to say:

Dreaming of lucidity is surely not happening in children, who never heard of it before - it is happening to those trying to learn LD and then dream of talking about it or some such - that is not the topic.

Yes Sageous - just the flash insight "This is a dream" is lucidity.
All else is down to practice and preference.

Lucidity is lucidity - and it is defined by that realization.
I find it very strange that you want to draw some imaginary line through lucid experiences and say - but only now it is real lucidity.
What for?
Sure - they have different lengths and quality - you might or might not remember all and everything, you have planned for the LD from waking life - you might get scared even while at the same time knowing it is a dream...

But even when I only shortly realize, that I am dreaming - that is the very same state of affairs, from which I had my higher level lucids in terms of length, control and memory.

It is like saying - no - you can not walk, until you are not able to do it on a high-wire!

Originally Posted by fogelbise

As far a child LDs. I feel that mine were not like Sageous describes but can imagine that many cases could be.

Why doubt other children`s lucidity - when you yourself know better?

Originally Posted by fogelbise

Back then I knew I was waking up from having occasional nightmares that were not real but were still scary maybe around 5-7 years old. My father told me about LDing as a way to take control.

My recollection was that my very next nightmare I stopped and remembered what my father said, realizing this was all just a dream during the dream and I defeated the monster.

Scary nightmares were rare after this. I still have nightmare-like scenes but they are very rarely scary. I went on to lots of flying and fun but like most people I eventually stopped paying attention to dreams unfortunately and fast forward decades later to me getting back into it recently. I agree my mindset is different now from then of course, but I am positive that my childhood LDs were true LDs.

So there we have it.
Fogelbise should be credible enough. One more classic case.

It must be hardwired and easily accessible - even if that hurts some people`s pride of having LDs as a well-earned and especially deserved achievement.
Nightmares - gets information - very next nightmare - not only lucidity in the sense of a short flash of realization - but with remembering information from waking life and putting it into practice.
And then going on with LD for fun - until it falls into forgetfulness/gets neglected.

Like our culture does that to us - less sleep, stress...
If you are not advised to keep up the practice for it's many, many benefits besides versus nightmares and for mere fun - that is what happens per default it seems.

I have repeated it loads - I do it once more - 6 people, whom I asked, my mother included - had LDs as a child and have very vivid and clearly valid memories of them.
That clearly means for me - there are others, who also had them among those I asked, who have simply forgotten them.
The core problem I see, why LD is not wide-spread is that children do not get acknowledged, supported and taught it.

I am convinced, they more or less all stumble over it at some time - or at least it is extremely easy for them in comparison to us adults, wanting to (newly or again) lucid dream.



Edit: Thank you VagalTone for supporting me with having talked to and being impressed by LDing children - tell us more maybe please?
My plan is actually to open a thread and give it a stab at arguing for LD being an evolutionary invention - after human consciousness - and after dreams in mammals.