Thread: Lucid Sex

Originally Posted by Sensei

http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...-own-risk.html
I believe that your post belongs here my friend. I often stop for minutes at a time and stare at one thing in a dream.

Tat being said, it is sometimes creepy to stare into dream characters eyes when you know that they are not real.

Oh, never mind lol.

Great, good job Percy, you're giving me bad schema (/.\)

Originally Posted by Sensei

http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...-own-risk.html
I believe that your post belongs here my friend. I often stop for minutes at a time and stare at one thing in a dream.

Tat being said, it is sometimes creepy to stare into dream characters eyes when you know that they are not real.

+1 (+1000) for not spreading mental viruses. This is not a laughing matter, many of us work really really hard for each single LD and it is not an easy gift for us, so Percy please respect that. Sivason is the exact opposite in fact, when he feels the dream collapsing, he concentrates/stares at one simple thing up close until his brain finishes "rebooting." So this notion is false.

And I looooove staring deeply into DCs' eyes (especially the cute girls). It is fabulous. One of my favorite things, in fact.

Originally Posted by Sensei

http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...-own-risk.html
I believe that your post belongs here my friend. I often stop for minutes at a time and stare at one thing in a dream.

Tat being said, it is sometimes creepy to stare into dream characters eyes when you know that they are not real.

Time is relative in dreams though! I have assisted many newbies with dream sex and staring has been their main reason of premature awakening, including myself that I naturally lucid dream!

Originally Posted by SinisterDezz

I never knew that stopping your eye movement ends REM cycles O___O

That explains a lot.

Yes, indeed it does. That is why spinning is good for most people, because it overwhelms your eyes, they need to move fast, etc And you prevent premature awakening. This is why when a dream becomes hazy, or you are in blackness, etc you wake up, because your eyes stop moving. Looking around fast into the distance (no stare) helps a lot with dream stabilization.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

+1 (+1000) for not spreading mental viruses. This is not a laughing matter, many of us work really really hard for each single LD and it is not an easy gift for us, so Percy please respect that. Sivason is the exact opposite in fact, when he feels the dream collapsing, he concentrates/stares at one simple thing up close until his brain finishes "rebooting." So this notion is false.

And I looooove staring deeply into DCs' eyes (especially the cute girls). It is fabulous. One of my favorite things, in fact.

Well, I am very lost with this post... What did I do for you to post that? I do really respect each and anyone's lucid dreams, so I am not sure why you are offended.

What makes Silvason statement to be better over mine? This is 100% true for me and for many others. I am here to embrace lucid dreams for many people, I would not give false information to anyone... So, whoever Silvason is, even if he is an author his own experiences are not better than a random user here who had his/her first lucid dream. And talking about authors, I believe that Stephen LaBerge talks about avoiding stare in one of his books, but I am not 100% sure, so do not bash me if I am wrong, please

I am not spreading any mental viruses, this is proven. And it has happened to me, especially when I was a virgin and a teenager, that I would stare into a female DC's intimates and bang... awakening! Even during lucid sex right now, if I get way too involved or I stare at the privates... I can kiss goodbye the lucid... So I really do not know where this comes from. But I do apologize if I offended you by all means. But I am also going to ask you to respect and not to trash my humble opinion, because this is part from my experience and each individual oneironaut's experience is golden, so please, do not step over my hard work neither. Thanks mate

Originally Posted by SinisterDezz

I never knew that stopping your eye movement ends REM cycles O___O

That explains a lot.

Originally Posted by SinisterDezz

Oh, never mind lol.

Great, good job Percy, you're giving me bad schema (/.\)

So, it does "explain a lot" for you but since my experience is being trashed here, you say never mind? If this "explained a lot" to you and you found that to be the reason of premature awakenings, then avoid the staring, because for many people, including myself, staring means awakening!

for me part of the fun of trying to lucid dream is for the sex, or at least as much eye candy as I can visualize. Occasionally I do come across someone who simply doesn't want it, and I find that often times that's the point where my lucid dream starts turning into a regular dream, were I have no control and everything is strange. Most of the times when I dont accidently wake myself up it feels amazing, just like the real thing, and sometimes much better than the real thing. One obstacle i have yet to overcome when having sex in a lucid dream is waking myself up worrying if I might ctually be going through the motions in real life while in my dream. Of course I only worry about that because I'm afraid of my grilfriend being woke up to me moving around like I'm having sex with someone.

I do find quite often that i can do the spinning thing and go back into the dream but sometimes the girl is no longer there, and I have to find her again, or it resets at the begining and I have to start over with her. I personally havent experienced anyone turning into guys though, or having extra body parts. Although one cool thing is sometimes thier breasts grow and thats fun to control, but then that seems to take over the dream and i no longer seek sex with them, instead I start wanting to make girls breasts blow up like balloons. So you gotta be careful on what your after in the dreams because you can find yourself after you wake up and wonder why you din't do anything with her when you had the chance. That happens to me all the time.

Hey percy, sorry if it seemed I was dissing you and people stopped believing you. You are quite a talented LDer, and I do agree that this could be a problem for some people and it might be the problem for some people, but if it isn't a problem yet, it could become a problem by them reading it here. Sometimes we have certain parts of our body that is more connected to the dream body than the waking body and vice versa. Think about when you are a child and you have a dream about peeing, your body follows. When I pee in dreams now (any time I feel the urge) my dream body has the sense of relief, but I still don't wet the bed. I think that it is the same. Think about dreams where you don't have eyes (transcend, take them out, expand consciousness, close eyes, transform), your eyes are not moving then, and you do not wake up. When looking at the problem of waking during lucid sex, it is a good idea to keep eyes moving, changing focus and things, but if you have no problem, then it would be bad to hear this I think.

Hope this makes sense.

Percy, it is not "offending", it is downright bordering on mean to go about stating "doing XYZ wakes you up / causes you to lose the dream", I have NEVER had any notion of (what you said, I do NOT want to repeat it!) being true, and even if it has become part of your mental schema, that is a *very* different thing than saying "it is true" publicly on this forum. And now, it's buried in my (and everybody's) SC who read this. I can only hope it won't surface.

Here's how Sivason's statement is absolutely fine and yours is schema infection and thus to be avoided at all costs : Sivason talks about saving a dream, and you talk about how something you do in-dream causes the dream to end. Expectation of dream continuing is wonderful and helpful, expectation of dream ending behavior is harmful to LDing. I'd think that would be clear. Some of us do not have "infinite" LDs and so do not have ample opportunity to solve all these schema infections.

Here's how you can phrase basically exactly the same thing in a helpful way without infection risk: "I find that moving my eyes constantly over my partner's body lengthens the encounter".

I have become very very cautious about what I write now regarding things like this. I used to before a bit, but now I never, ever tell anyone that something "is hard" and NEVER will tell them that something ends a dream.

In fact, I think this should be an official forum rule that is enforced by admins. This is a much more important point than preventing necro posting or URLs to outside sites.

Originally Posted by Sensei

Hey percy, sorry if it seemed I was dissing you and people stopped believing you. You are quite a talented LDer, and I do agree that this could be a problem for some people and it might be the problem for some people, but if it isn't a problem yet, it could become a problem by them reading it here. Sometimes we have certain parts of our body that is more connected to the dream body than the waking body and vice versa. Think about when you are a child and you have a dream about peeing, your body follows. When I pee in dreams now (any time I feel the urge) my dream body has the sense of relief, but I still don't wet the bed. I think that it is the same. Think about dreams where you don't have eyes (transcend, take them out, expand consciousness, close eyes, transform), your eyes are not moving then, and you do not wake up. When looking at the problem of waking during lucid sex, it is a good idea to keep eyes moving, changing focus and things, but if you have no problem, then it would be bad to hear this I think.

Hope this makes sense.

Yup, it does make sense... I would not think it would impact in a negative way, just giving my advice. Staring has been a killer for me and for others, reason I shared it, maybe I could choose different words I have had dreams where I had no eyes or I transformed into something weird (or an old ToTM, very old, that you needed to take your head off and stand over it) but I believe that even if you have no eyes, you still have some sort of vision and/or your eyes (physical ones) are still moving. I also read many times that in a dream, our body is paralyzed except for our eyes which move as we move them in the dream (or better said, as we look around in the dream, even if we are just a body-less piece of consciousness during a transcendent experience.)

Thanks for sharing you opinion this way, it is a good point of view.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Percy, it is not "offending", it is downright bordering on mean to go about stating "doing XYZ wakes you up / causes you to lose the dream", I have NEVER had any notion of (what you said, I do NOT want to repeat it!) being true, and even if it has become part of your mental schema, that is a *very* different thing than saying "it is true" publicly on this forum. And now, it's buried in my (and everybody's) SC who read this. I can only hope it won't surface.

Here's how Sivason's statement is absolutely fine and yours is schema infection and thus to be avoided at all costs : Sivason talks about saving a dream, and you talk about how something you do in-dream causes the dream to end. Expectation of dream continuing is wonderful and helpful, expectation of dream ending behavior is harmful to LDing. I'd think that would be clear. Some of us do not have "infinite" LDs and so do not have ample opportunity to solve all these schema infections.

Wow dude. you are being very disrespectful here and I do not appreciate this AT ALL.

First of all, my experience is NOT a schema infection. I am pretty sure Stephen LaBerge advices not to stare at things (especially in a dream I believe he had where he tried to read a book that was blurry and waking him up) I strongly do not appreciate your post and I want to please ask you to be respectful for every user here who posts their opinion and experiences... Silvason is not all-mighty. What works for him, might not work for other oneironauts. Is this so hard to understand? I believe you just might have something against me, look how Sensei shared his point of view in a respectful way... while you keep bashing me.

Again, I did share this with the purpose of helping people with success on this topic, and I have teaching many people here how to complete dream sex while they were waking up prematurely, so my so called schema for you, it is helping many other users.

And as you can see below, I am not adding fear of ending the dream, I am giving advice how to stabilize the dream, same thing has done your beloved Sivason So, do not point at me at giving bad advice, because I am always doing my best here to help as many people to lucid dream and I spend tons of hours replying to PMs and questions from people all the time, so I have passion in helping other users to LD... but maybe you will also question my passion to help others also!

Originally Posted by PercyLucid

Regarding to stabilization during dream sex... I have a flawless (so far) technique and very simple...

Do not EVER look into your partners eyes or body altogether, avoid kissing too and while you are at it, look left and right continuously. You will still have an awesome experience and as weird as it sounds... remember is just a dream... with whomever you are having sex, won't care for that. This is done for you to avoid ending prematurely your REM phase, so you want to keep your eyes moving.

I am not trying to be disrespectful, it is not my intention, and I think you are being too sensitive and not thinking clearly about this. I am being quite objective, and I think you are the one starting to take it to the personal level ("beloved Sivason").

If you tell someone "if you do X, your dream will end" is the very definition of schema infection. If you think it is not, well then just what do you think it is?

And I gave you constructive advice on how to better phrase things to avoid implanting schema infections into people.

You, dude, should take a chill pill and think about what you've written. And schema infection from LaBerge doesn't make it any less schema infection.

edit: your experience is NOT being trashed, that's hyperbole. Your phrasing is being criticised yes, and I believe rightfully so -- things regarding dreaming should be phrased positively, even if you believe you are communicating an "avoid the dream end" scenario, you should say "doing xyz helps you stay in the dream".

Okay, I see what you mean now... I just felt it personal the way you worded everything, this is why through a screen is easier to pick it up the wrong way

I am chilled, trust me

So we are cool then!

Yes I was just coming back to the thread the erase my message and to apologize, because bad feelings are not worth it. So, sorry that it came out as personal. The internet really sucks sometimes.

And I really want to get somewhere with lucid sex, so you can bet I *will* keep those eyes moving next time. And I'll report back how it goes. I may be your #1 fan if I can get further than in my previous (5 dozen? ) attempts.

Don't worry -- eye action in REM is uncorrelated to the visual field in the dream. This was scientifically studied:

Are the Eye Movements of Dreaming Sleep Related to the Visual Images of the Dreams? - Jacobs - 2007 - Psychophysiology - Wiley Online Library

So look at whatever you like for as long as you like! Personally, I love studying objects up close for long periods of time, including eye contact.

Enjoying the beauty and infinite detail of the dream world is one of the great pleasures of being an oneironaut!

Whatever strategy you choose, whether you decide to stare at one object or look at as many objects as possible, it's really all just down to you connecting to the dream. The rest is details. Your dreams can continue through novel, exciting, emotional, crazy experiences like LD sex. Discard any schemas which tell you otherwise.

IMO it's all down to practice and belief! Stay calm, stay focused, and you'll stay in the dream. Good luck all!

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Don't worry -- eye action in REM is uncorrelated to the visual field in the dream. This was scientifically studied:

Are the Eye Movements of Dreaming Sleep Related to the Visual Images of the Dreams? - Jacobs - 2007 - Psychophysiology - Wiley Online Library

So look at whatever you like for as long as you like! Personally, I love studying objects up close for long periods of time, including eye contact.

Enjoying the beauty and infinite detail of the dream world is one of the great pleasures of being an oneironaut!

Whatever strategy you choose, whether you decide to stare at one object or look at as many objects as possible, it's really all just down to you connecting to the dream. The rest is details. Your dreams can continue through novel, exciting, emotional, crazy experiences like LD sex. Discard any schemas which tell you otherwise.

IMO it's all down to practice and belief! Stay calm, stay focused, and you'll stay in the dream. Good luck all!

Thanks for this reply Canis. I had seen this before but couldn't find it! You are keeping on top of things.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Yes I was just coming back to the thread the erase my message and to apologize, because bad feelings are not worth it. So, sorry that it came out as personal. The internet really sucks sometimes.

And I really want to get somewhere with lucid sex, so you can bet I *will* keep those eyes moving next time. And I'll report back how it goes. I may be your #1 fan if I can get further than in my previous (5 dozen? ) attempts.

Good luck

Maybe I just did not use the write words. I do study a lot the law of attraction and mantras, to keep it always positive and in present tense. But entering that statement here I completely forgot. Glad things are cool again

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Don't worry -- eye action in REM is uncorrelated to the visual field in the dream. This was scientifically studied:

Are the Eye Movements of Dreaming Sleep Related to the Visual Images of the Dreams? - Jacobs - 2007 - Psychophysiology - Wiley Online Library

So look at whatever you like for as long as you like! Personally, I love studying objects up close for long periods of time, including eye contact.

Enjoying the beauty and infinite detail of the dream world is one of the great pleasures of being an oneironaut!

Whatever strategy you choose, whether you decide to stare at one object or look at as many objects as possible, it's really all just down to you connecting to the dream. The rest is details. Your dreams can continue through novel, exciting, emotional, crazy experiences like LD sex. Discard any schemas which tell you otherwise.

IMO it's all down to practice and belief! Stay calm, stay focused, and you'll stay in the dream. Good luck all!

Since I have moved to Europe and I had way too many luggage, I gifted away all my LaBerge books to someone getting started, but he talks about the opposite of this.. so I do not know... maybe LaBerge is wrong, maybe it applies to some people only... I do not know. I know I have learned that from someone, and upon sharing that advice, it helped many... so I really do not know!

Just forget all the thing all together and if you have difficulties to finish dream sex, try to move around and not stare into your partner in order to bring more vividness into the dream and prolong it and it might work for you

And canis, reply to my dare lol, I posted a reply for you

Speaking of dares, I think Percy you can guess what mine for you is going to be

Hahahaha... Yup... LOL.

And then, if I manage to complete it, you will tel me, "I told you so!"

Yup, you did it hahahaha!

Wish me luck

Originally Posted by SinisterDezz

It's good to know that everyone on the website will be waiting for me to have sex.

Alright guys, I got some updates for ya...

I have a girlfriend now. One step closer.

I did a lot of staring in this one and it fits the thread topics theme. i wrote the sexual scenes little bit graphic and pretty detailed, but hey the more detailed the dream journal the better right? they are under spoilers for a reason. just giving you early notice if you click the link. i think i overdid the descriptions a bit, i like the read a lot and enjoyed typing it, but it may sound a bit too overdone as far as use of adjectives to other readers.

but yea many times i did stare and for varying amounts of time. just my experience with it!

Link
Lucid 4 and 5!DILD 3 and 4 (March 19, 2015) How I expected my early Lucids would be like - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Originally Posted by Sensei

http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...-own-risk.html
I believe that your post belongs here my friend. I often stop for minutes at a time and stare at one thing in a dream.

Tat being said, it is sometimes creepy to stare into dream characters eyes when you know that they are not real.

Going to agree with this, throw this out of your mind before you start believing it and create self-fulfillment; I often stop to look intently at things.

On topic; I find my sex is too enjoyable, and I often find myself worrying about having an orgasm in real life so the dream collapses. Thus it has become my Rule Number One. It is awesome though in the sense that you can conjure up and make dirty with celebrities and what not. I agree with the "cave man mode" thing though; you will have lots more fun walking around a dreamspace for 10 minutes than spending 15 seconds in a celeb.

Originally Posted by RavenOfShadow

you will have lots more fun walking around a dreamspace for 10 minutes than spending 15 seconds in a celeb.

That may in fact be true, but I'd like to have a few hundred 15-30 minute start-to-finish fully lucid vivid sex dreams to decide for myself . That's not so much to ask, is it? Heck, even a few dozen would more than take care of my "list." Why not combine them? Flying over a dreamscape while doing the deed, best of both.

Those lucids in which you just waste your time by finding a good room .

I used to spend 4 out of 7 DEILDs on sex, or looking for it, or declining it. Lucid sex is damn good, but I was missing out on so much more. All because of the strongest urge I was not able to squash once lucid.

So now I have a mantra that I repeat while WILDing:
NoSexNoSexNoSex

And I give myself permission to spend one of the DEILDs on sex, so I can focus on doing other things in first few LDs. It's working out very nicely this way.

These are some observations that work for me, in case you would like to go for lucid sex:

- when WILDing, or while preparing for a DILD, imagine yourself already naked. Why waste time with getting undressed? Or that you have only one layer of clothes on. It's faster that way.
- don't bother looking for a "special" place. It doesn't matter where you are. Nobody is looking. Well there may be, but who cares?
- again, while preparing, imagine details how everything will go down. Skip the formalities.
- yes, it will be good, and yes, there will be happy ending
- it is your dream, and it will react to your expectations and thoughts. So keep happy thoughts and know that what you know will happen will actually happen. No doubts about it. Done deal.

I don't do any of this for lucid sex, because that comes naturally to me, haha. But I do preparations for everything else. Ok, so once I practiced gettin nekked for a Task of the Month.
I practice everything in WL. I stand up in the middle of my room and physically do the movements I want to do in a lucid. You wanna take your shirt off quickly and make sure there is nothing underneath, do it. You want to reach for that sword/bow on your back? Do it. Reach for it, bring it forward and swing, or put an arrow on the string and shoot.

Do you want to sing loud? Yell "focus now!", or "clarity now"? Do it. Close your windows and yell it out loud, or sing. I have never heard my voice in my dreams, till I practiced once or twice IWL. Because how do we prepare? We whisper to ourselves or just think it. For me that meant, that that's how I did it in a dream as well.

Remember, what you think is exactly what's gonna happen.

Happy ehem, lucids, everybody

~Succubus #3

I can't believe I missed this thread until now bouncing through this forum for several months. Reading some of the posts, I respond that LD sex can be a sort of exploring of the dreamscape! It is also very possible to explore a celebrity for long periods!

Originally Posted by gab

- when WILDing, or while preparing for a DILD, imagine yourself already naked. Why waste time with getting undressed? Or that you have only one layer of clothes on. It's faster that way.
- don't bother looking for a "special" place. It doesn't matter where you are. Nobody is looking. Well there may be, but who cares?
- again, while preparing, imagine details how everything will go down. Skip the formalities.
- yes, it will be good, and yes, there will be happy ending
- it is your dream, and it will react to your expectations and thoughts. So keep happy thoughts and know that what you know will happen will actually happen. No doubts about it. Done deal.

-Agreed. I don't waste time undressing myself (usually a waive of the hand or instantly naked from thought) but more recently I love taking the time to undress my partner.
-Agreed. It is actually fun to challenge your inhibitions and "show off" your firm lucidity by doing something you wouldn't dream of doing IWL.
-Depending. If foreplay is considered a formality, I think it actually adds to the experience.
-I agree despite those expectation nay sayers.
-So true in my experience!

The biggest expectation helper for me has been that a "fading" dream often can be extended whether it's in the same scene or into a new scene or into the void and then a new scene! I heard Sageous describe the mindset as "not following the normal path back to your sleeping body in bed" and that really rang true with me and made a difference! But I never believed any negative sex schema and that has helped me in that arena since the beginning pretty much. Just find one thing you can do that other people say is hard and then you know that any of the negative schema doesn't have to apply to you! I avoid reading negative schema though just in case it gets lodged in my subconscious.

That TOTM mention got me thinking that if I always combine the tasks to my personal wish list and goals I will find more focus towards them!

You want to reach for that sword/bow on your back? Do it. Reach for it, bring it forward and swing, or put an arrow on the string and shoot.

These lines took my mind somewhere very different. I blame the subject of the thread.

Here's my theory on why sex leads to waking up. But first we have to note that there is nothing to support the idea that there is anything physiological happening when you have sex in a dream that would lead you to wake up. This fact is supported by studies carried out on sex dreams.

Also consider that sex never wakes you up from your non lucids. I have had plenty of sex LDs without waking.

My theory is based on my maxim that dreams are fundamentally narrative, and that problems of stability and control come from the interruption/disruption of the dream narrative. I will write a whole thread on this theory along with my general observations when I reach my 4 lucidversary.

So in my theory there are two causes, the second being a result of the first:

1. The first cause is that LD sex often comes as a violent injunction of the 'dream plot'. You become lucid. This is already a radical break with the narrative course of the dream as most LDers will typically stop whatever they are doing and deliberately ignore or even forget the prior dream story. Having already interrupted the dream plot the LDer grabs the nearest DC and starts going tong and hammers with no narrative justification. The unconscious struggles to 'buffer' and crashes.

2. This first cause (which in truth is only a general principle of lucid dreaming as such) is used as evidence that lucid dream sex is 'impossible'. As this meme spreads through the community, more and more LDers find that initiating sex leads to immediately waking, due to the schema they have internalised.

Finally, consider this: even though there are no social consequences in dreams, this does not mean that acts are empty of their social signification. If in waking life you grabbed the nearest person and started intercourse, that would be rape.

So my advice is to first establish emotional intimacy. Your dreams don't actually want to cock-block you; if you first make eye-contact, or hold hands, or kiss, or cuddle, a DC they should be happy to 'go all the way'. This I think is why women tend to have more success with sex LDs.

So brush up on your dream foreplay, guys!

I like the "disruption of the narrative" theory. So rather than necessarily taking it slow, coming up with a pretend-memory narrative redirection may be the way to go, ala sivason's sex marathon from last year: "oh, right, we're here for a porn shoot!" may be even more important.

I have another theory, which is that caveman mode (at least in me) arises as a function of being close to waking up, anyway, and a loss of a lot of lucidity. So the cause/effect may be somewhat reverse of what we think it is. I'm not 100% behind this yet but it's something I've been thinking about on and off.

Actually, while I have had much longer, fully operational non-lucid sex dreams, I do remember non-lucid transitions away from the good stuff, too. So there may be something going on about too much excitement leading to transitions. The problem with non-lucid sex for me is that the sensations are quite vague, "things don't fit", etc.

fogelbise's point that transition does not imply waking is really important. I too often "give up" when a lucid transitions because I assume I'm waking up, but a large %age of the time, once I really wake up, I realize I just transitioned to a new scene, non-lucid.