Thread: Why would anyone want to lucid dream, surely it's undesirable?

Originally Posted by Voldmer

That's rather dogmatic. And unprovable too.

Sorry, but I'm not dogmatic, I'm just sharing my own research here. The prove I got, is more than enough for me. Here, I posted this not long ago:

Spoiler for old dream:

I wake up in living room and immediately gained awarness.(I live in apartment) Everything around was darkish, the lamps doesn't glow enough and the walls were covered in some dark substance like tentacles(or veins), they were like alive, they had a heartbeat(pulsating). I went in the corridor, everything was covered in that stuff, the lamps were flickering. I thought to get out from front door, but behind the door there was a strange noise, so I looked through the spyhole. On the other side of the door there was a black fat monster with big mouth and many teeths, which from time to time was burping with sulphur smell. So I went to my room, the walls were covered also, I thought that I can fly out of windows,but they were covered also, from what I saw through them all the city were covered in that shit. The sun was there, but was a full sun eclipse. In that moment the entire floor started to cover with dark spiders and snakes stuff. I jump on top of my bed. I thought that I can't escape from that, so I just sit on the bed, the dark things were crawling towards me in that moment the lamps gone all dark.

Suddenly a person appeared on the bed beside me, he was carrying a little flashlight. He looked at me and say "What are you doing, why are you so afraid, everything in here is an illusion. Everything here is part of yourself, look carefully now". He close his eyes and the next moment his little flashlight lit like a big projector. I asked him how did you do it. He said "You must concentrate, use your inner light", "ok I will give it a try". I closed my eyes and focused on light, the next moment the room exploded in very bright light, all blackness started to burn and disapeared. Outside was a bright day, all the darkness was gone "See you can do it, if you just try and remember this is your inner world, your will is everything". I turned towards him and said "perhaps, you are Me". He smiled and vanish. In that moment the dream fall apart and I woke up in my bed.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

The OP has only 1 post and hasn't returned to respond to any of the points people have made. I don't think they were looking for actual discussion, more like poking a hornet's nest with a stick and standing back to watch the result.

I'm not gonna bite,.... too much.

Originally Posted by GordanFreeman

Sorry, but I'm not dogmatic, I'm just sharing my own research here. The prove I got, is more than enough for me. Here, I posted this not long ago:

Spoiler for old dream:

I wake up in living room and immediately gained awarness.(I live in apartment) Everything around was darkish, the lamps doesn't glow enough and the walls were covered in some dark substance like tentacles(or veins), they were like alive, they had a heartbeat(pulsating). I went in the corridor, everything was covered in that stuff, the lamps were flickering. I thought to get out from front door, but behind the door there was a strange noise, so I looked through the spyhole. On the other side of the door there was a black fat monster with big mouth and many teeths, which from time to time was burping with sulphur smell. So I went to my room, the walls were covered also, I thought that I can fly out of windows,but they were covered also, from what I saw through them all the city were covered in that shit. The sun was there, but was a full sun eclipse. In that moment the entire floor started to cover with dark spiders and snakes stuff. I jump on top of my bed. I thought that I can't escape from that, so I just sit on the bed, the dark things were crawling towards me in that moment the lamps gone all dark.

Suddenly a person appeared on the bed beside me, he was carrying a little flashlight. He looked at me and say "What are you doing, why are you so afraid, everything in here is an illusion. Everything here is part of yourself, look carefully now". He close his eyes and the next moment his little flashlight lit like a big projector. I asked him how did you do it. He said "You must concentrate, use your inner light", "ok I will give it a try". I closed my eyes and focused on light, the next moment the room exploded in very bright light, all blackness started to burn and disapeared. Outside was a bright day, all the darkness was gone "See you can do it, if you just try and remember this is your inner world, your will is everything". I turned towards him and said "perhaps, you are Me". He smiled and vanish. In that moment the dream fall apart and I woke up in my bed.

That was quite a dream, and with a nice lesson at the end as well! But what that dream did prove was that you can change the dream using your will. You can also change the physical world using your will. Just as this second fact does not prove that the physical world is an illusion, the first fact does not prove that the dream world is an illusion.

By the way, in vedantic traditions (e.g. in yoga) the physical world is considered an illusion.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

I don't think they were looking for actual discussion, more like poking a hornet's nest with a stick and standing back to watch the result.

No hornet's nests, no sticks. Reading every post, many of which seem intelligent and well-considered. And as much as lucid dreaming mightn't be something I'm looking at getting into right now, it's certainly interesting to hear people's thoughts and experiences, which I guess was the reason for posting in the first place.

Originally Posted by Voldmer

But what that dream did prove was that you can change the dream using your will. You can also change the physical world using your will. Just as this second fact does not prove that the physical world is an illusion, the first fact does not prove that the dream world is an illusion.

I really want to see how you change Day into Night with your "Will", I will be there with popcorns.

Originally Posted by GordanFreeman

I really want to see how you change Day into Night with your "Will", I will be there with popcorns.

I haven't progressed to that level*. So far I use my will to steer my body. That works quite well.

*It is of course possible to will yourself to hit yourself on the head with a brick, during day time, so that you wake up several hours later, at night (with a terrible headache), thus having turned day into night in an instant. However, I wouldn't advocate it.

Originally Posted by Voldmer

I haven't progressed to that level*. So far I use my will to steer my body. That works quite well.

*It is, of course, possible to will yourself to hit yourself on the head with a brick, during day time, so that you wake up several hours later, at night (with a terrible headache), thus having turned day into night in an instant. However, I wouldn't advocate it.

Oh.. I wouldn't go that far. Taking sleeping aid usually helps me achieve the effect without it being too painful. ^^'

On a more serious note, the waking reality is pretty malleable, just not as much as a lucid dream where you are highly aware. It's like a space inhabited by billions of lucid-dreamers, semi-lucid dreamers, and some even going about their day autonomously without much conscious awareness much like in regular dreams. Since it's a space made up of several conscious people, the reality is that much more stable. Since I had lucid dreams that were very stable I don't find this an impossibility.

I guess it depends on your emotional need to have the reality influenced since the waking reality is not easily influenced.

I have one experience of waking life dream control that's still fresh in my mind. After my Kana passed away, I was in and out of the hospital a lot for my own treatments. One day, in waking, I was in the waiting area of my hospital wth my mom for over an hour waiting to see my psychiatrist following a suicide attempt that my famaly managed to stop. I was tearing up because Kana wasn't beside me for support and I didn't handle hospitals well because of PTSD as Kana left me while in hospital ICU and I was in a waiting area similar to the one I was in right then that time too. I looked at a ceiling light and wished with all my heart... "If you are still watching over me, if you are not really gone, please flicker that light. It will mean so much to me." It didn't flicker. I felt disheartned and started crying. I was on the brink of passing out and possibly having another seizure. Just in case anyone is wondering... It was before I was on strong anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds. Anyway, a nurse with few attendants rushed to us and suggested that she'll move up my appointment with my doctor and in the meantime, they were going to take me to Casualty/ER. Suddenly the whole waiting room lights, not 1, but all 25+ ceiling lights, flickered off and then came back on in random. Coincidence? Maybe, but it helped me calm down and made me realize we are more than just helpless passengers in this reality.