• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




    Results 1 to 12 of 12
    Like Tree25Likes
    • 1 Post By MoonageDaydream
    • 1 Post By nautilus
    • 2 Post By Occipitalred
    • 3 Post By Sageous
    • 2 Post By Occipitalred
    • 3 Post By Occipitalred
    • 3 Post By Sageous
    • 3 Post By MoonageDaydream
    • 3 Post By nautilus
    • 3 Post By sivason
    • 1 Post By MoonageDaydream

    Thread: Lucid Dreaming Book Club (August)

    1. #1
      Moonage Daydreamer
      Achievements:
      Referrer Bronze Created Dream Journal Veteran First Class Made lots of Friends on DV
      MoonageDaydream's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 2014
      Gender
      Location
      Tropical South Florida
      Posts
      970
      Likes
      1107
      DJ Entries
      70

      Lucid Dreaming Book Club (August)

      Our new selection for this month is Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach. (Suggested by Sageous)

      I found these sources online if you need help accessing the book:

      PDF: https://denver-psychic.com/wp-conten.../Illusions.pdf

      Audiobook: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX8v...L&index=2&t=0s

      When discussing this book, especially as it is a fiction, please use spoiler tags with the chapter you're discussing in the title of the spoiler.


      Happy reading!
      nautilus likes this.

    2. #2
      the oneironautilus Achievements:
      Referrer Bronze 5000 Hall Points Veteran First Class Created Dream Journal Tagger First Class Made Friends on DV
      nautilus's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2008
      Location
      California
      Posts
      330
      Likes
      111
      DJ Entries
      10
      Thanks for the links MoonageDaydream! Will start reading soon, and looking forward to it. I haven't read it before but did read Jonathan Livingston Seagull as a kid and loved it.
      MoonageDaydream likes this.
      "When you see the shadows falling,
      When you hear that cold wind calling,
      Hold on tight to your dream."
      -ELO

    3. #3
      Moonage Daydreamer
      Achievements:
      Referrer Bronze Created Dream Journal Veteran First Class Made lots of Friends on DV
      MoonageDaydream's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 2014
      Gender
      Location
      Tropical South Florida
      Posts
      970
      Likes
      1107
      DJ Entries
      70
      Quote Originally Posted by nautilus View Post
      Thanks for the links MoonageDaydream! Will start reading soon, and looking forward to it. I haven't read it before but did read Jonathan Livingston Seagull as a kid and loved it.
      You're more than welcome.

      It seems like a very short book (2 1/2 hour audiobook), so that's nice. I'll be starting within a week or so, I am almost done with Tibetan Yoga...

    4. #4
      Member Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Created Dream Journal 1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Occipitalred's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2013
      Posts
      646
      Likes
      924
      DJ Entries
      3
      Ok, I think I'll give it a try... but first I need to review the reason why I'm not excited about it (express my negative attitude and maybe focus on the positives).

      Spoiler for Jonathan Livingston Seagull:
      Last edited by Occipitalred; 08-12-2020 at 05:28 PM.

    5. #5
      high mileage oneironaut Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Stickie King Populated Wall Referrer Silver 10000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points
      Sageous's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2011
      LD Count
      35+ Yrs' Worth
      Gender
      Location
      any quiet place
      Posts
      5,003
      Likes
      7110
      ^^ Good points all, OccipitalRed, but be assured that Illusions is not Jonathan Livingston Seagull.

      JLS is basically just a feel-good book for folks who feel like powerless, unremarkable members of a large equally unremarkable flock. I don't think JLS was ever meant by Bach to be deep -- all that came later when intellectuals tried to figure out why it sold so well.

      I think you will find Illusions more interesting, especially if you read from the viewpoint of a lucid dreamer.
      Last edited by Sageous; 08-12-2020 at 05:44 PM.

    6. #6
      Member Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Created Dream Journal 1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Occipitalred's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2013
      Posts
      646
      Likes
      924
      DJ Entries
      3
      Thank you Sageous, I'm definitely in a better mood now to get into Illusions and I'll make sure to read it from the viewpoint of a lucid dreamer!
      MoonageDaydream and Sageous like this.

    7. #7
      Member Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Created Dream Journal 1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Occipitalred's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2013
      Posts
      646
      Likes
      924
      DJ Entries
      3
      I finished Illusions.

      Spoiler for the whole book!:
      Last edited by Occipitalred; 08-27-2020 at 04:19 AM.

    8. #8
      high mileage oneironaut Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Stickie King Populated Wall Referrer Silver 10000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points
      Sageous's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2011
      LD Count
      35+ Yrs' Worth
      Gender
      Location
      any quiet place
      Posts
      5,003
      Likes
      7110
      That's an interesting take Occipitalred, though... oh, wait, this must be a Spoiler moment...

      Spoiler for Brief response:
      Last edited by Sageous; 08-27-2020 at 06:03 PM.

    9. #9
      Moonage Daydreamer
      Achievements:
      Referrer Bronze Created Dream Journal Veteran First Class Made lots of Friends on DV
      MoonageDaydream's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 2014
      Gender
      Location
      Tropical South Florida
      Posts
      970
      Likes
      1107
      DJ Entries
      70
      I apologize for not setting up the next month's poll. I did not see these posts, and thought no one else had read the book! Now I see that I was wrong. I will set up the next month's poll thread today.

      I finished this today. I thought it was a great book. Here is my review from Goodreads:

      Spoiler for End:


      My favorite quote from the book:

      Spoiler for Quote:


      I will read the posts in this thread soon, when I have a bit more time, I can see they are quite long!
      Last edited by MoonageDaydream; 09-06-2020 at 11:02 PM.
      nautilus, Sageous and Occipitalred like this.

    10. #10
      the oneironautilus Achievements:
      Referrer Bronze 5000 Hall Points Veteran First Class Created Dream Journal Tagger First Class Made Friends on DV
      nautilus's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2008
      Location
      California
      Posts
      330
      Likes
      111
      DJ Entries
      10
      Sorry for the late response. I did finish reading this quite a while back but I got wrapped up in a new project I'm working on.


      Spoiler for General Thoughts on Illusions and JLS:


      Spoiler for Semi-Related Philosophical Tangent:


      Spoiler for Favorite Quotes from Illusions:
      "When you see the shadows falling,
      When you hear that cold wind calling,
      Hold on tight to your dream."
      -ELO

    11. #11
      Moderator Achievements:
      1 year registered Made lots of Friends on DV Veteran First Class 10000 Hall Points Stickie King Vivid Dream Journal Referrer Bronze
      sivason's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2007
      LD Count
      2500ish
      Gender
      Location
      Idaho
      Posts
      4,439
      Likes
      5237
      DJ Entries
      395
      Hi guys, I am late here but this book was a favorite of mine in the 80s. As far as the book I found it fun and light. I loved the first pages that looked like they where written in ink. That was really funny. I also feel the message has merit but is fanciful as far as levitating wrenches goes.
      Occipitalred, I always love reading your thoughts! You take so much time and express yourself in a way I can relate to. Often when I see a wall of text I can not finish it and just scan for the big picture, but your thoughts are well worth careful reading. Thanks.


      The next part will sound like it should go in the Beyond Dreaming section. I am going to, in this one case speak with authority that will seem arrogant to some. I always make statements that allow people to maintain their points and usually add stuff like "while I believe these things, feel free to assume I have some sort of delusion". That takes up too much mental energy. Forgive me. I will just bullet some things to perhaps help you guys sort out the magic stuff that seems like wishful thinking BS.

      -I experience magic comparable to works of fiction on a daily basis. Much of what happens around me is on the minor miracle level. The people close to me have had all doubt removed from seeing overwhelmingly obvious things repeated over decades.
      -This is not a random thing. It is the results of yogic discipline and a relationship with "the divine". (see guys, obnoxiously arrogant. No one is allowed to talk this way. However, in this little book club I doubt anyone but you guys will see it, so this time I think it is ok)
      -this BS sounding crap coming from a stranger should be held in deep suspicion, it sounds like a teen begging to get attention. Simply judge that in most of your dealings with me I seem sober, educated and logical, not like a teen.
      -to my knowledge things like levitating a wrench is not possible but it makes a good book. The real magic will always have a way to reason it out. It can always be written off by a doubter. A man can have extraordinary luck ten times in a row and you can say "random chance will occasionally have this happen". A woman can seemingly react to things people were thinking or act in a way that is bizarrely fortunate considering what ended up happening and you can always say "given random chance..." A person can have a fish jump into the boat with them after joking it could happen and of course "given random chance..." At that point a doubter is free to wait for something that breaks the laws of physics before calling it magical, but they will be waiting for ever. My son (met him at 14 years old) could not understand. What good is this magic you teach if I can never prove it to someone else? He wanted to be different and better than others, to stand apart as special and able to do something they would be in awe of. He has learned better in the last 15 years.
      -While this is an illusion that is basically a dream it is not actually a shared dream where we each form it with our beliefs. It is more like a video game in that while not real you simply can not jump Sonic over this gap. By most doubters logic, if this is an illusion then walking through walls and such is the proof they need. Same logic applied to a video game: If this game is not real life I can will Sonic to make it over this gap- never going to happen, but the game is not real life- same thing.
      -The truth is the dream is mostly coming from something far far above us. That is why I mentioned a deep connection with the divine. You will be limited in how much change you can make with out help from the forces above you. That should make some mad.
      -One understanding of Enlightment is simply seeing the true nature of reality and grasping the way to deal with life based on that. Not only are all of our perception effected by how we feel or believe, but also the fact that the world itself is illusion.

      Here I will stop rambling as far as setting up the basis for my next points. The book was about this guy having extraordinary 'powers' because of an awareness he has. People try to 'believe' fanciful things and nothing happens. Here is why.

      -These equations have a variable I will generically call energy.

      -The laws of physics are like the software itself. Perhaps Earth's gravity is expressed as 10 to 1,000,000,000,000 power as far as the energy needed to over write it. It is intended to be immutable. Some things are not, such as what the weather will be doing in ten minutes. A rain storm ten minutes from now when you know the satellite says no clouds anywhere is again asking to displace physics, but the rain stopping in this small section of the valley long enough for me to walk to the store is not displacing physics. It is just highly improbable. Perhaps achieving such a highly improbable outcome when I want it takes 10,000 energy. It would be amazing if it only stopped raining with in a mile of me just as I walk to the store, then cut loose while I was in the store and paused again when I walked home, but not in anyway over writing an immutable law. A doubter could definitely say "yes, but given random chance..." Who cares what they say if I get to go to the store with out getting wet.

      -You do not get 10,000 energy (making up numbers for helping visualization of concept). Sorry you don't get 10,000 energy. In this system (made up for the explanation) a base level human gets 1 energy. Try as much as you wish, then say it is all BS, because your 1 energy was never going to provide the effect.(You in this case not meant to be hurtful. If you are the exception, sorry to lump "you" in here)

      -You can get more energy. Think of dream control. If you do not believe something can happen (flying) it will not. This is your 1 energy. Maybe it takes 10 energy to fly. In LDing you can get up to that 10 energy by honestly believing the thing is possible. Back to waking life and this energy. So let's say those who can honestly believe such things can happen now get 10 energy. They are 10 times as influential in things energy can affect than others. Back to LDing. If instead you KNOW flying is possible because you have experienced it 20 times let's say you have 100 energy and now fancy flight is fairly easy. So in life TRUE knowledge of this stuff say brings you up to 100 energy.

      -Sorry 100 energy is not enough to cause rain to not fall with in a mile of you while the rest of the valley is getting soaked. "Darn it I saw him do a miracle, I honestly KNOW this is possible, yet I still can not do this!" That does not mean it is not real, you are just 100 fold short of the energy needed for it to happen.

      -Mystical training in any one of the energy systems can improve the amount of this energy you can generate. You start Kundalini or Chi training and by the time 30 years have passed you say can now generate 1,000 energy. Still falling short of the rain thing, but perhaps many other fantastic things happen to you, such as high level of intuition, random good fortune, and animals responding in a charmed way to you. Still a whole life and no where near the 10,000 mark!

      -Once started on this path it is easier to find the path next time and you start with a higher base level of energy. Eventually you will have done this path many times. The level of energy you can reach may be 10,000 by the time you are 30. This is terrible! It means you may not be able to make cool things happen even though you try your whole life! Yeah, where are you going? This multiple lives stuff goes on for thousands of lives, 10s of thousands, infinite? May as well get started, time (lives) will pass.

      -Perhaps a miracle such as the sky tearing a gash in the cloud directly above you during a massive storm and a rainbow shining through while you are dry and 1000 feet away a torrent of water hits the ground takes 1,000,000 power. Truth is you are likely never going to reach 1,000,000 power while young enough to still bother manifesting in this world as a human. That is where Higher Power comes in.

      -If a Higher Power knows you and likes you it can amplify your power say 1,000 fold. Now with a base of say 1,000 power (attainable in one life) it is enough for a miracle to happen assuming the Higher Power has some reason to care about you.

      -These Higher Powers (The Divine) are attracted to 3 things. Those who help themselves, so someone who say reaches 1,000 power. Those that call out to them (think Dream Guide). Those who are honorable and good (don't get involved with one's that don't like that, lol) This is why it has always been people of religion who have had stories told about miracles. They believe (10) they experience it (100) they meditate and learn internal discipline for decades (1,000). They have probably been at this a long time, lives (10,000) They try to be honorable and good and call out to The Divine and have that help that gives a thousand fold (10,000,000).

      This thread is not about the magical nature of mystics explained by some guy. It is about the book Illusions and also mentioned JLS. In that book the idea is put forth that this is an illusion and if you truly grasp that, fantastic things can happen. I enjoyed it because to me it was just a neat way of expressing things I honestly experience and believe. My whole long rambling essay is just to give you guys my perspective on how it is possible and why for most everyone it is not attainable on a level you will find conclusive, today. It is simplistic for these books to suggest "believe and anything is possible." It is also fantasy to talk about levitating wrenches in my understanding. I think the better message is "if you honestly believe, then things start to be possible, and with training through a mystic energy art many more things become possible." But that is not a very instant gratification, fun basis for a book if you want it to sell. Notice best selling mystical books always give a fantasy way teens can imagine they could be doing this stuff by next year. Harry is secretly a wizard of amazing strength. He did not study harder than anyone else for 20 years and then was an amazing hero. Books use phrases like "The Chosen One" to give teens the fantasy that they too could suddenly be amazing. Super heroes get bit by a spider or find a magic ring. That is why I like Batman. He goes out and learns to fight, he lifts weights and earns his skill through 20+ years of sweat. I do not expect you guys to believe a word of what I have said or to believe I am not an attention seeker but I do hope at least one person who reads this will see why you not experiencing miraculous things through the simple power of belief does not mean the stuff is not real, and that the mystical stuff never breaks the laws of physics though it may appear to. In conclusion: Books like this must exaggerate the nature of the powers (floating wrenches) and must make it sound like it is possible you can get their soon to appeal to the masses and therefore should be forgiven that embellishment. Everyone wants their book to sell. Still I found the core of what is taught in the book and JLS to be worthy of reflection.

      Thanks guys for allowing me to speak openly about something I keep on the down low in general. I doubt very many people will find this, so maybe the amount of "He's crazy" will be very limited.
      Last edited by sivason; 02-27-2021 at 07:59 AM.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

    12. #12
      Moonage Daydreamer
      Achievements:
      Referrer Bronze Created Dream Journal Veteran First Class Made lots of Friends on DV
      MoonageDaydream's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 2014
      Gender
      Location
      Tropical South Florida
      Posts
      970
      Likes
      1107
      DJ Entries
      70
      ^ Long read but I found it inspiring. I think you're onto something here. I also think emotion may be a factor at play, as a type of energy. I suspect it can help with manifesting, especially when you're feeling a loving kindness high vibe kind of feeling.
      sivason likes this.
      Check out the Lucid Dreaming Book Club: March-April
      Have a suggestion? Book Club Suggestion Thread

    Similar Threads

    1. Lucid Dreaming Book Club Suggestions
      By MoonageDaydream in forum General Lucid Discussion
      Replies: 28
      Last Post: 04-21-2021, 10:33 PM
    2. Lucid Dreaming Book Club (July)
      By MoonageDaydream in forum General Lucid Discussion
      Replies: 44
      Last Post: 08-22-2020, 08:38 PM
    3. Lucid Dreaming Book Club Voting Booth
      By MoonageDaydream in forum General Lucid Discussion
      Replies: 2
      Last Post: 08-07-2020, 10:04 PM
    4. Lucid Dreaming Club Constitution
      By lucidboy in forum General Lucid Discussion
      Replies: 7
      Last Post: 09-21-2013, 06:15 PM
    5. Philosophy Based Book Club?
      By AnthonyA in forum Philosophy
      Replies: 9
      Last Post: 01-02-2007, 11:14 PM

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •