Thread: Senses Initiated Lucid Dream (SSILD)

so does anyone else kind of question how much of the cycles they are actually getting in? like I know that I get up, go to the bathroom, and lay down and do the cycles, but my memory of the entire waking period is very hazy. Can you guys remember exactly how many cycles you did, like is your memory clear in the morning?

I'm thinking if my memory of doing it is so bad then maybe I'm actually half asleep the whole time, lol.

Interesting technique. Funny enough I had a lucid this morning. I tested this out this morning but didn't really do the right amount of cycles. Think I just did like 1 cycle and went back to sleep. Marked it down as a DILD but SSILD could have possibly made me more aware in my dreams, cause I was semi-aware in another way, and this rarely happens.

May have to experiment with this technique.

Just wondering if this technique is good for recall? I only remember one vivid dream a night and I'm not sure if that's enough for lding yet, and do I have to get into habit of doing rcs again? At the moment I'm tired of doing rcs lol

Originally Posted by tofur

Can you guys remember exactly how many cycles you did, like is your memory clear in the morning?

I'm thinking if my memory of doing it is so bad then maybe I'm actually half asleep the whole time, lol.

I think the OP has been very busy lately so I will try to help with these questions.

You never know...you could have been half asleep or all the way asleep. If I am too sleepy my memory of how the cycles went is a little hazy the next morning. So, the OP says that you don't want to count. Even though you don't remember how many, can you remember if you actually did at least some of both the short and the long sets of all 3 of the cycle types(sight/hearing/touch)?

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

Just wondering if this technique is good for recall? I only remember one vivid dream a night and I'm not sure if that's enough for lding yet, and do I have to get into habit of doing rcs again? At the moment I'm tired of doing rcs lol

Maybe the OP can better answer. My opinion is that it will only help you recall in as much as it can help you to have LDs and it is hard to forget most LDs. And this technique has helped me to have most of my LDs! I think it is beneficial to also use a separate recall technique(s). If you are tired of doing reality checks, maybe try doing them differently or take a break...how do you RC?

Quite a few people in this thread have said that SSILD seems to improve their dream recall.

After several months of not practicing any LD techniques, I'll now be using SSILD a lot more. Used it last night after only about 3 hours of sleep (I know that more sleep is better but I awoke naturally and thought 'why not?'). I did about 5 fast cycles, but then fell asleep before doing any slow ones. Later in the night, I became lucid but immediately started to lose the dream. I started rubbing my palms together straight away despite having completely lost the visual aspect of the dream. I was sure that I'd woken up and was laying in bed with my eyes closed, but I kept rubbing my palms anyway just in case. I then had a false awakening (in a bizarre location that was not my bedroom), but by this point I had forgotten I was dreaming and continued with a non-LD.

Will try again tonight unless something prevents me from doing so!

Congrats on the success Denholm! The OP did say that some people get a lot of FAs from this technique...if we can catch them, we can have more LDs! I have also had success with SSILD even if I don't finish the cycles.

Originally Posted by CosmicIron

It is not difficult to find report on this forum which show people having success with this technique over a long period. On my own forum, there are more than a dozen people, myself included, who use the technique every day and succeed every time. All of these are well documented. If that's placebo, then placebo so be it. LOL

This leads me to a bit of an "advanced SSILD" question.

I've had a good number of lucid dreams via SSILD (56, according to my Dream Journal tags), so I am definitely a person that had success with this technique over a long period. This tech works.

In spite of all that success, I can't help but be curious what you and the other SSILD practitioners with a 100% success rate do to get perfect results. One great thing about the technique is that it's so straightforward that it's fairly easy to instruct someone how to do it.

But beyond those basic steps... in your estimation, is there anything that you and the other 100%ers do differently from those of us who "only" get good but not perfect results?

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

This leads me to a bit of an "advanced SSILD" question.

I've had a good number of lucid dreams via SSILD (56, according to my Dream Journal tags), so I am definitely a person that had success with this technique over a long period. This tech works.

In spite of all that success, I can't help but be curious what you and the other SSILD practitioners with a 100% success rate do to get perfect results. One great thing about the technique is that it's so straightforward that it's fairly easy to instruct someone how to do it.

But beyond those basic steps... in your estimation, is there anything that you and the other 100%ers do differently from those of us who "only" get good but not perfect results?

My question is (which should be asked about any technique), is what is the users frequency of LDing *without* it, using MILD or WILD? What is their LD background? How many LDs have they had before SSILD? What are the statistics of wannabe LDers using SSILD to get their first LD? For these, how long did they "study" LD, dream journal, etc? Once LD practitioners get experienced enough (in any method), just about any method seems to work.

What I'd really like to see is data about which techniques take LDers from X% to Y% for various values of X and Y, especially including getting the first LD. From what I've seen, CI says that first timers can take months, which doesn't really indicate any difference from DILD: it's the time spent doing RCs, thinking about LDs, etc. that probably really does it. But what do I know, I haven't had any LDs yet. But I'm getting close I hope!

Originally Posted by FryingMan

My question is (which should be asked about any technique), is what is the users frequency of LDing *without* it

I have been using SSILD(with WBTB as intended) since I returned to LDing in February and felt like a beginner...starting all over again 30 or so years later. I still do fundamentals, DJ, RCs, RRCs and feel they are very important, but my "frequency of LDing *without* it"(SSILD) is low, for better or worse. I have been using DEILD on occasion...but again it is usually after first doing SSILD. I am just one person though. A survey would be nice.

I also would like to hear from the OP CosmicIron regarding CanisLucidus' question 2 posts back. I love the technique and find the success rate very high but would love to learn how to get LDs 100% of the time that I try.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

This leads me to a bit of an "advanced SSILD" question.

I've had a good number of lucid dreams via SSILD (56, according to my Dream Journal tags), so I am definitely a person that had success with this technique over a long period. This tech works.

In spite of all that success, I can't help but be curious what you and the other SSILD practitioners with a 100% success rate do to get perfect results. One great thing about the technique is that it's so straightforward that it's fairly easy to instruct someone how to do it.

But beyond those basic steps... in your estimation, is there anything that you and the other 100%ers do differently from those of us who "only" get good but not perfect results?

Sorry for the late reply... To get 100% success rate, we need to learn to actively shift into the dream during a special trance state often induced by SSILD. During this state, we walk a very fine line between waking and sleeping. It all depends on where you place your focus -- if you think you are awake, then you will be moving your physical body immediately and the transition from the trance to full waking state is totally seamless. On the other hand, if you move your focus away from the physical body then you will immediately be in the dream state, again in a completely seamless fashion. A easier way to do this is to relax your head, allow it to sink into you pillow, then try to move your hand with only the slightest mental effort. Use it to pinch your nose to perform a nose plug RC in one smooth movement. If the RC succeeds, then simply maintain the same level of focus and roll out of the bed. This special trance state can be had spontaneously, but most often occurs after performing the SSILD cycles. It is not the same as FA because if you are not careful you will indeed move your physical body and there is no "waking" process associated with it. Utilizing this technique you can achieve almost guaranteed success. After performing SSILD cycles you will have many subsequent awakenings. Some of those are FAs, and many are this type of trance states. Normally people would consider them failed attempts of SSILD, but by using the above technique you can turn them into perfect launching platforms. Sometimes you can succeed even after you have moved your physical body upon waking up. That's how powerful it is. It's definitely not DEILD. I hope this helps! Happy dreaming!

Originally Posted by CosmicIron

Sorry for the late reply... To get 100% success rate, we need to learn to actively shift into the dream during a special trance state often induced by SSILD. During this state, we walk a very fine line between waking and sleeping. It all depends on where you place your focus -- if you think you are awake, then you will be moving your physical body immediately and the transition from the trance to full waking state is totally seamless. On the other hand, if you move your focus away from the physical body then you will immediately be in the dream state, again in a completely seamless fashion. A easier way to do this is to relax your head, allow it to sink into you pillow, then try to move your hand with only the slightest mental effort. Use it to pinch your nose to perform a nose plug RC in one smooth movement. If the RC succeeds, then simply maintain the same level of focus and roll out of the bed. This special trance state can be had spontaneously, but most often occurs after performing the SSILD cycles. It is not the same as FA because if you are not careful you will indeed move your physical body and there is no "waking" process associated with it. Utilizing this technique you can achieve almost guaranteed success. After performing SSILD cycles you will have many subsequent awakenings. Some of those are FAs, and many are this type of trance states. Normally people would consider them failed attempts of SSILD, but by using the above technique you can turn them into perfect launching platforms. Sometimes you can succeed even after you have moved your physical body upon waking up. That's how powerful it is. It's definitely not DEILD. I hope this helps! Happy dreaming!

So true ! This trance must be recognized which seems to be easier after SSILD and WILD attempts, or after a body scan meditation. The problem of moving the body is usually not a problem if i do one of those techniques. It seems like i notice much better my awakenings. And then, it's time to get out of bed ! That´s how i get most of my lucids ( OBE´s ).

Not sure it is not a DEILD as i get this trance state if i interrupt my REM with a gentle alarm ( alarm-DEILD )

Originally Posted by CosmicIron

Sorry for the late reply... To get 100% success rate, we need to learn to actively shift into the dream during a special trance state often induced by SSILD. During this state, we walk a very fine line between waking and sleeping. It all depends on where you place your focus -- if you think you are awake, then you will be moving your physical body immediately and the transition from the trance to full waking state is totally seamless. On the other hand, if you move your focus away from the physical body then you will immediately be in the dream state, again in a completely seamless fashion. A easier way to do this is to relax your head, allow it to sink into you pillow, then try to move your hand with only the slightest mental effort. Use it to pinch your nose to perform a nose plug RC in one smooth movement. If the RC succeeds, then simply maintain the same level of focus and roll out of the bed. This special trance state can be had spontaneously, but most often occurs after performing the SSILD cycles. It is not the same as FA because if you are not careful you will indeed move your physical body and there is no "waking" process associated with it. Utilizing this technique you can achieve almost guaranteed success. After performing SSILD cycles you will have many subsequent awakenings. Some of those are FAs, and many are this type of trance states. Normally people would consider them failed attempts of SSILD, but by using the above technique you can turn them into perfect launching platforms. Sometimes you can succeed even after you have moved your physical body upon waking up. That's how powerful it is. It's definitely not DEILD. I hope this helps! Happy dreaming!

Great explanation, CosmicIron, thank you!

I have used a technique very much like this when intentionally WILDing, but I've never used it in the in-between phases of SSILD. When I've managed it, it's always resulted in an OBE-style lucid dream. I'm excited to learn that by combining it with SSILD I may get even more chances to use it.

From what I recall, the main trick was to never engage the muscles in any way but rather to treat the nose pinch and/or roll-out as something we will to happen, like an act of dream control rather than physically doing something.

Very exciting stuff, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it so well. It also once again has me pondering what the mechanism behind SSILD might be. This seems to argue that a big part of it might be reducing the latency between the waking state and dreaming (and likely REM.)

Or perhaps it's the other way around, and that the act of SSILD increases your awareness, allowing you to keep a great deal more of your conscious mind active after the transition into the dreaming state. This would explain why it raises the odds of both DILDs and WILDs. And if it keeps you aware of your surroundings for a longer period of time as you drift to sleep, that could also explain the increased incidence of false awakenings.

^^ When you guys mention moving your hand for an RC, do you mean to visualize yourself doing an rc, or actually physically doing an rc(which I guess is counter-productive)

And do these after the SSILD cycles, or in between?

Originally Posted by EmptyBucket

^^ When you guys mention moving your hand for an RC, do you mean to visualize yourself doing an rc, or actually physically doing an rc(which I guess is counter-productive)

I'll let Cosmic Iron speak for himself on the second part of the question, but as for the technique itself, yes, it's a lot like visualization. If you've ever used dream control to make something happen without actually "moving", then IMO you have the right idea.

It's like you cause the RC via visualization, yet it's still very much like experiencing it rather than simply imagining it.

It's a bit strange, so I hope that the explanation helps. Again, I've only used this for WILD so far, and I'm assuming that it's pretty much the same in the SSILD trance.

Are there ways to tell if we are in this phase that cosmic speaks of, or is it more of a you just have to guess? After preforming SSILD cycles for a while I do feel closer to sleep but I dont feel as if im in a certain transition phase.

Originally Posted by rynkrt3

Are there ways to tell if we are in this phase that cosmic speaks of, or is it more of a you just have to guess? After preforming SSILD cycles for a while I do feel closer to sleep but I dont feel as if im in a certain transition phase.

Basically you will be in this phase during any of the subsequent awakenings after performing SSILD. If you spend a long time *cooking* the cycles then chances are you will succeed during the very first awakening. Otherwise you can perform the cycles one more time and be in the phase upon waking up again.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

I'll let Cosmic Iron speak for himself on the second part of the question, but as for the technique itself, yes, it's a lot like visualization. If you've ever used dream control to make something happen without actually "moving", then IMO you have the right idea.

It's like you cause the RC via visualization, yet it's still very much like experiencing it rather than simply imagining it.

It's a bit strange, so I hope that the explanation helps. Again, I've only used this for WILD so far, and I'm assuming that it's pretty much the same in the SSILD trance.

That's exactly how it works. Though later with more experience, one should be able to just "know" how to shift the focus between the physical and dream bodies without the visualization part.

Originally Posted by EmptyBucket

^^ When you guys mention moving your hand for an RC, do you mean to visualize yourself doing an rc, or actually physically doing an rc(which I guess is counter-productive)

And do these after the SSILD cycles, or in between?

Either way is fine, although visualization is the safer approach as it allows you to take advantage of even the lightest trance state. You can do this right after the SSILD cycles and that may give you a authentic WILD experience. For easier and more reliable result you will want to do it upon subsequent awakenings resulted from the SSILD exercise.

Thank you CanisLucidus for starting this great discussion and CosmicIron for your answers!

Originally Posted by rynkrt3

Are there ways to tell if we are in this phase that cosmic speaks of, or is it more of a you just have to guess? After preforming SSILD cycles for a while I do feel closer to sleep but I dont feel as if im in a certain transition phase.

When I was first learning this technique I felt like I was having trouble going back to sleep, but now I am thinking that many of those times I was already in this trance/phase without realizing it. Being a newbie to the technique I think I was not knowing how to recognize the feeling. It is still tricky...An example recently was that I thought I was still trying to go back to sleep and decided to turn on my side to go to sleep quicker had an LD but when I had a little mini-awakening after the LD and I knew I was awake, I noticed I was still on my back. I had "turned over to my side" with my dream body only! As a beginner I got mostly spontaneous DILDs from SSILD and still do but I am starting to recognize the dream more intuitively and sometimes logically creating more opportunities to LD. Early on I was also wondering why I was not getting these FAs that CosmicIron said were common with the technique. As my recall and experience improved, I started to remember some FAs from time to time. I began to think I was missing most of them and started doing RCs anytime I get up from bed. I am now starting to recognize more FAs and they were probably happening all along.

cosmic,

do you clearly remember the period in which you get up and do the cycles in the morning once your awake for the day? I ask because my memory seems hazy even though I get up and go to the bathroom and then do cycles. I'm never sure exactly how many of them I did, or if I even made it past the first phase of them. I feel like I did, but I also am feeling like I'm not so sure about that.

Should I stay up longer or is this common?

Originally Posted by tofur

cosmic,

do you clearly remember the period in which you get up and do the cycles in the morning once your awake for the day? I ask because my memory seems hazy even though I get up and go to the bathroom and then do cycles. I'm never sure exactly how many of them I did, or if I even made it past the first phase of them. I feel like I did, but I also am feeling like I'm not so sure about that.

Should I stay up longer or is this common?

Personally, the act of getting up and returning to bed to do SSILD is always based on conscious decision. Thus I can remember clearly the process as well as majority of the dream initializations. Sometimes I get lazy and do not want to get up. SSILD done this way usually have lower success rate, and it is not uncommon for me to fall asleep right away and remember very little of it. So yes I definitely recommend you to stay awake a little longer, or get more sleep before attempting the exercise.

I attempted SSILD three more times since the time I described above when it produced a lucid dream. No more LDs, but on the latest attempt I started getting the kind of bizarre physical sensations that I used to get when I attempted WILD. Specifically, I was laying on my side and it felt like I was rotating onto my stomach while at the same time ALSO rotating onto my back. It felt like I had two extra bodies that were spitting away from my actual body. I relaxed into it and tried to let it develop into something else, but nothing happened. Will hopefully try again tonight!

Also, CosmicIron I noticed that the page where you have the official tutorial went down for a little while there. Glad to see it's back up!

I have had two DILDs now, the second one was just last night. Before bed last night, I was reading through my journal and noted that I had done some SSILD cycles combined with MILD before my first DILD. Last night, I really wanted a LD, and I did both MILD and SSILD, and got DILD #2. DILD #1 felt more like a prospective memory target getting hit and I just said to myself "I'm dreaming" reflexively with no critical faculty awakening (the key phrase in my MILD mantra), so I thought that was a pure MILD LD. However, this second DILD had a wakening of my critical faculty, I recognized a strange situation (I was unable to pick up a bunch of cards I'd dropped on the floor), and thought, "oh, this is one of those situations where I should check to see if I'm dreaming" and instantly at the word dreaming became lucid.

So, I don't know. Not very scientific, I know, since I'm combining a bunch of methods (including lucid aids: lecithin, apple juice). I had also done a lot of prospective memory targets throughout the day. So also, strong desire mixed in with a day thinking a lot about LDing.

But until I get my frequency up really high (multiple per week), I'll keep the MILD + SSILD combo, and then start playing with it to see what makes the most difference. But thanks for this technique, I do feel that it probably had an impact on both LDs.

Alright so far iv tried this 4 times and have had a lucid twice. ON both successful attempts, when i tried SSILD, i did it laying on my back, (i always sleep on my side). So when im trying to go through the cycle my body just wants to go to sleep, and thus on the last cycle i start getting a excitement feeling in my chest (Because i knows im going to roll over and sleep). So i would suggest doing this in a position which you don't normally sleep in. Ill post my results after 10 more attempts.