Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
I'm not saying they're idiots, I'm saying stop treating them as sages about things they didn't know about
Once again. THIS IS NOT A DEBATE A THREAD CONCERNING WHETHER OR NOT 2012 WILL HAPPEN. So listening to the sages of the Mayans has nothing to do with this thread. You asked what is the 2012 prophesy based on, and I answered. There is nothing to debate about unless you think my source of understanding the Mayan people and their beliefs concerning 2012 is incorrect.

The Mayan people are still alive. They knew the spanish conquistadors would rip their culture apart. They quickly gave some of their most sacred artifacts to the Hopi to protect - which the Hopi elders today claim they have done so successfully and still have Mayan artifacts that have yet to be revealed.

The Mayan priesthood continued to practice their culture even when catholicism was forced on them. While anthropologists think they know better on Mayan culture - the living Mayans today ask anthropologists to get the story from the actual indigenous people who continued their culture through oral traditions. Yes its true they lost a lot of their knowledge. But they also retained a lot of beliefs and practices that academia did not know about becuase they did so in secret (only revealing recently)

Our days correspond to the planet rotating once, during which the sun makes a full cycle of the sky. Our years correspond to the Earth going round the sun once. You may have noticed this also corresponds exactly to the cycles of the seasons. How on Earth is this 'not related to true reality';
How many people imagine that a month is a box with a lot of squares ? Our western concept of time tends to be linear rather than cyclical. And while months were originally named after the moon - most of us have no idea when a full moon is going to occur because months don't accurately follow the cycle of the moon. Really, when we decide to end a month is completely arbitrary and has nothing to do with any cycle observed in nature. You don't find this in the Mayan calenders. If a calender ends on a specific day, it ends because of a cycle observed in nature.

What part of nature does the Mayan cycle correspond to? Don't tell me 'natural cycles'; I asking what specific natural cycle, and some examples of it.
It's said they have something like 20 calenders. Each one will be based off a different cycle observed in nature. Whether its the human body - the moon - the stars - or growing season. I don't see why I need to give you specifics.

I looked up what modern scholars of the Mayan texts say.
Well there's your first problem. Find out from the Mayans. Look up Cirilo Perez Oxlaj.

Mark Van Stone, a Mayan scholar, says "there is nothing in the Maya or Aztec or ancient Mesoamerican prophecy to suggest that they prophesied a sudden or major change of any sort in 2012. The notion of a "Great Cycle" coming to an end is completely a modern invention". Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies in Crystal River, Florida, says "to render Dec. 21, 2012 as a doomsday or moment of cosmic shifting is a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in."
Well good. It is a fabrication. Cirilo Perez Oxlaj says so himself. That said - it is about a cycle ending and a new cycle beginning. And its extremely significant for the reasons I stated in that first post. As for cosmic shifting - Cirilo does belief something amazing will happen to humanity - but neither he nor the other elder priests state that it happens on December 21st 2012. That date simply marks the official new sun cycle. The actual transition into the new cycle, in terms of its significance, started at least five years ago and can last another five years. You can relate this to the holiday season even though the holidays are still on specific dates. But instead of a span of weeks - we are talking years.

Do you have any historical evidence of these 'wheels of time' and their use?
I don't understand you. You come here arguing, and what exactly are you arguing about? You're not making any sense to me. Mayan wheels of time is academically known. If you don't know this, then what are you here to argue about?



This is the Mayan long count that ends on December 21 2012. As artistic as it looks, its actually a mathematical artifact. And no I don't have to prove that to you, just google it yourself, there are plenty of educational books that teach how the calender works.

This image illustrates why Mayan calenders are called "wheels"



The smaller shorter calenders interlock with the longer lengths of time - making the long count the most complex and complete of the Mayan calenders - a calender that spans apx. 26,000 years. Mind you, ours only spans 365 days.