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    View Poll Results: Have Aliens made contact?

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    Thread: Have Aliens made contact?

    1. #1
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      Have Aliens made contact?

      I'm assuming most logically minded people think there probably are extra-terrestrials some where so my question is have they passed by, contacted or influenced Earth?

      By the way, aliens does not have to mean people from other planets (or at least from our current perception of other planets in astronomy) they can be any sort of beings you like, even human beings, as long as you believe they are not from what we commonly conceive to be Earth. Whatever you think they are, or for whatever reason you think they're here, please explain.

      (I will also be making a thread about Angels and Demons, but later)

      EDIT

      Also this is a video of an astronaut talking about alien contact.

      Last edited by Omnis Dei; 09-17-2011 at 06:42 AM.

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    2. #2
      Xei
      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
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      It's actually not so certain whether or not there is other life in the universe, let alone our galaxy.

      I don't see any evidence of contact. If they wanted us to know then it would be very easy to let us; we're looking hard enough.

    3. #3
      Drivel's Advocate Xaqaria's Avatar
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      It seems like you assume that if any humans were to have been contacted by aliens you (or any common individual) would necessarily know about it. I would guess that this is most likely not the case.

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    4. #4
      Xei
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      I don't see why that's so. If they want to tell us something, or just make us aware of their presence, I imagine they'd just say it. It seems rather anthropocentric to suggest they'd have an interest in any particular individual, or group.

      And in any case, my last sentence was separate from the penultimate one.

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      We can't be certain that there is life on other planets, there is no observable evidence, but I think the chances of there not being any are almost virtual. I'd lean toward extraterrestrial life probably not visiting earth based on modern human physical theories.

    6. #6
      Xei
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      The problem is that we don't know how many separate factors are required for complex life, and doubling the number of factors does not halve the probability, but actually squares it.

      So, if we thought there were a certain number of conditions required for life on a particular planet, and the probability they're all matched were 0.00000001, then there is definitely life in the universe, and possibly in our galaxy. But if we underestimated the number of conditions by half, which is hardly implausible, then the probability of life would be around the order of 0.00000000000000001, and that could mean we are alone in the whole observable universe.

    7. #7
      Member Scatterbrain's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      I don't see why that's so.If they want to tell us something, or just make us aware of their presence, I imagine they'd just say it. It seems rather anthropocentric to suggest they'd have an interest in any particular individual, or group.

      And in any case, my last sentence was separate from the penultimate one.
      I think to approach the matter in this way is fallacious. You're making the assumption that the only reason aliens would make contact is to "make themselves known", for all we know it's no more probable for alien contact to be ambassadorial in nature than it is for it to be of rogue interests or merely accidental.
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    8. #8
      Xei
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      Why would they want to act as ambassadors to politicians? Why would they care? Just announce your peaceful intentions to the world, no need to go through a bunch of bureaucrats.

    9. #9
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      They wouldn't want to be taken to our leaders - especially if they're here for better working conditions.

    10. #10
      Member Scatterbrain's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      Just announce your peaceful intentions to the world
      We can only hope.
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      - No sir, I'm a dreamer.

    11. #11
      Drivel's Advocate Xaqaria's Avatar
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      To me it seems anthropocentric to assume we know anything about the motives of extraterrestrials.

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    12. #12
      Xei
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      Right, so assuming they'd have some bias for a particular group of humans is not sensible.

    13. #13
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      We do know bout being aliens visiting a new world. We came, we saw, we kicked everybody's ass. Seems to be the universal way.

    14. #14
      Xei
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      Well, considering we were contemplating the contingency of their actually having visited us, that's one motive we can rule out.

    15. #15
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    16. #16
      Xei
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      If the life of the Earth were spread out over 100 meters, human civilisation would constitute the last fifth of a millimetre. The technical mathematical term for the probability that aliens happened to find our bounteous world during this period is 'lolnope'.
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    17. #17
      Sleeping Dragon juroara's Avatar
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      If a giant UFO flew over a city for thousands to see, would you know about it? You'd think that kind of news would make global headlines.

      But the news about the Phoenix Lights described lights way off in a distance by some mountain, static lights that weren't moving. However, the airport and policemen reported sighting a mile long aircraft of unknown design and origin, that was completely silent and didn't show up on radar. Based on the reports the this mile long airship silently flew over the entire state.

      While the news reported that only a few people called in to report a UFO, those working at the police station say that this is a total lie perpetuated by the media. The lines were busy all night long, and all the descriptions of this mile long ship were consistent.

      The biggest an easiest hole against the Phoenix Lights story is the lack of photographic evidence. However, I can say as an owner of one too many digi cameras, not a single one of my cameras can really photograph at night. Especially not something flying in the sky when theres city lights close to the ground. (everyone described the ship as black)

      That said, this UFO has been seen over several countries already! The description remains the same. Mile long. Black. Glowing orbs on its bottom. Silent. Seems to instantly vanish. V-shaped. Some think its human technology. But that itself opens up a whole can of worms as to how this ship runs, not to mention is magical vanishing trick.

      I'm not saying this is absolute evidence of ET visiting humans. But I am saying don't assume the media cares to enlighten you on the truth of the world. Back in the 90s, a major city in Mexico witnessed a UFO event, witnessed by thousands in broad daylight, making this UFO event impossible to be denied by the Mexican government. This city wide event was completely dumbed down in American news, to the point where it just wasn't even mentioned at all. So much for an Independence Day!

      Thanks to the availability of cheap technology, we are getting more and more videos every year of UFO activity. The theme this year is giant glowing orange-amber orbs. This harks all the way back to WWII, were pilots called these glowing orbs bogeys and thought they were of nazi origin. These lights are differentiated from natural phenomenon because of their behavior - reacting to pilots - or arranging geometric patterns in the sky. In the Phoenix Lights, people saw the glowing orbs first. The orbs were aligned in a V-shaped pattern - and then people saw the actual black ship they belonged to. The description of the glowing orb is similar to the orb seen in the movie Fire in the Sky.

      Anyways!

      What do you imagine alien contact would look like?

      And why would you know about it unless it happened to you?

    18. #18
      Drivel's Advocate Xaqaria's Avatar
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      Why? There are too many unknowns to be able to know what these aliens might be capable of. Perhaps they are extradimensional beings that could constantly monitor our planet 'at a distance'.
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    19. #19
      Xei
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      And perhaps there is an invisible race of faun-like creatures living among us. There is zero point in any such discussion, as far as I can tell.

    20. #20
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      Firstly, whether or not there are aliens in the observable universe, or even in space ten times to size of the observable universe... That's still such a small sample of what existence is it doesn't really matter how small you make the probability that life can't repeat itself, it's still not zero.

      Secondly, the factors for life are a temperature range, an atmosphere, an ionosphere and water. Even that's pushing it. Truthfully, life may even repeat itself in our own solar system.

      Thirdly, everything Xaqaria said about what defines their capabilities to remain hidden or not is also a good point.
      Last edited by Omnis Dei; 09-17-2011 at 06:42 AM.

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    21. #21
      Xei
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      How many self-replicating information-preserving molecules do you know of other than nucleic acids..?

      And how do you know what's beyond the observable universe?

    22. #22
      Drivel's Advocate Xaqaria's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      And perhaps there is an invisible race of faun-like creatures living among us. There is zero point in any such discussion, as far as I can tell.
      Tell that to the people living now who believe they have already been contacted by those sorts of beings.

      Also, my point wasn't that they could remain hidden, but that maybe even if they "made contact" at some point before their was intelligent life on this planet it could be as easy as 'glancing over' and noticing "oh they have airplanes now, lets have a chat". In other words, vast distances are a barrier for us, but maybe not for others.
      Last edited by Xaqaria; 09-17-2011 at 05:32 AM.

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    23. #23
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      How many self-replicating information-preserving molecules do you know of other than nucleic acids..?

      And how do you know what's beyond the observable universe?
      Occam's razor. Because we can't find the end, it's simpler to believe the universe has no end than imagine a wall. Occam's razor also points toward aliens existing. It's much simpler to imagine we aren't the only mistake in this vast thing than try to fathom how an occurrence like this happens only once.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    24. #24
      Xei
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      Occam's razor really isn't a stringent inference, especially in situations like these where 'simplicity' is an very ill-defined term. An infinite universe could equally be said to be a lot more complex than a finite one. Not that I'm saying I believe the universe is finite; but you can't really form any kind of conclusion at all about it. In the second case a similar argument would argue that there are many other Jim Careys throughout the universe; it's a simpler assumption than the idea that he could just happen once by mistake.

      Although to be honest, we should only be concerned in this thread with the observable universe anyway, because that's the only thing that can causally interfere with us. And once we know more about the chemistries of other planets and about the development of life, it will be perfectly possible to start putting numbers on these probabilities.

      And there are other valid inferences. It really does seem unlikely that there are any technologically advanced races within our galaxy who want to advertise their presence.

    25. #25
      Member Tranquil Toad's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by juroara View Post
      (Long post about phoenix lights and media blackout)
      Phoenix lights is also only one event, although it being witnessed by thousands, including the governor, makes it stand out. There are countless U.F.O reports from very credible people. The Belgium U.F.O waved had many black triangle craft both observed by hundreds of people on the ground, as well as tracked on radar with jets scrambled after them.

      Many people probably have seen this already, but for those who haven't: Disclosure Project. Many high level individuals come together and speak to the media about their experiences with U.F.Os.

      I understand that some people will not believe until an alien appears on CNN greeting the president, but with so many sightings and experiences - many by air force and military personal, others corroborated by multiple witnesses (thousands in the case of phoenix lights) - I tend to lean towards the belief that they are here. As Juroara pointed out, this stuff doesn't make it to the mainstream media. So unless you research it yourself, the general assumption is occasionally some hillbilly claims to have seen lights in the sky.

      There is no hard evidence at this point, but when so many people report seeing craft in the sky there comes a point where it seems very likely that there are, in fact, craft in our skies.

      As to why they haven't revealed themselves, we obviously don't know. One idea is that if they were to just land and give us proof of their existence it would alter our society in profound ways, both philosophically and technologically. Perhaps doing that to a growing civilization is not appropriate. A child needs to learn how to crawl and walk on his own, and if you do it for them, they don't benefit from their own learning. Just showing up in the middle of our species development may hinder us in the long run more than help us.

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