Thread: Galantamind Melatonin and WILDing...

Ohhhhh, okay! But yes, like you, I think going slow is the best approach and taking time to research and trouble shoot as well.

And cool, then I'll continue to see what works for me, but get this, (and you may have known this) but I bought 5-HTP today at Walmart! They also had Galantimine as well, which surprised me.

Now if I read Yuschak's pdf correctly, should you take 5-HTP as a dream suppressor and then the other supplements around 5 hours later?

You know, looking into it more, this really is an extensive troubleshooting proposition, as if you guys didn't know that!:}

What I mean is, I just watched a video of a youtuber saying he took Galantamind AND Choline. But there's choline already in GMD! How much more choline bitrate should be added to the GMD!?!? And should I still take AGPC, as I just read on wiki that AGPC "is a natural choline compound found in the brain."

Or, I just read this... "Alpha GPC is more of a post workout or ‘chillout’ type of choline replenishment agent, whereas CDP choline is more stimulatory, making it better for focus and drive." So if that's true, what is more appropriate for what we're trying to achieve here?

As I take it, melatonin and 5HTP are for similar purposes, and I already have a lot of experience with melatonin. So again, holding my hand here, either of those two are to help get to sleep AND suppress dreams at the beginning of the night so they're back-ended toward the end, when you take the other supplements, right?

Would really love to just organize this in my head, as you guys can imagine! (Thanks again for your time!)

Most people seem to need more choline than what galantamine contains, if you don't then don't take more! Start slow and figure out what you need, no one can tell you that.
I recommend you look up the Yuschak book, as he covers a lot of the background of the different supps and recommends particular mixes. Alpha-gpc in particular has a different peak plasma curve than choline bitartrate, extending the maximum effect window of the G mixture.

Hmm, but I wonder how much... So far I haven't been able to find an exact amount to add to the GMD. But you're right that its about figuring out, but I definitely don't want to take too much either.

As it is though I would have to lean toward AGPC from what you said alone, as it'll extend the effectiveness of the GMD.

All recommendations are just that, recommendations. Again (again!) in answer to how much: start low (zero), and if you don't get the desired results, add more, until you reach either your desired results, or you go beyond what you want to take and decide it may not work for you. The point of the extra choline (bitartrate) is that it kicks in earlier than the alpha-gpc. Get the yuschak book and read it, it's highly recommended.

I'll second what FryingMan said about RCs. That's the problem I have at the moment, both on supplements and without. I have vivid dreams with good recall, but just can't seem to get lucid. If I'm honest I don't do enough daytime RCs or ADA. I'm working on it, but find it difficult with a busy schedule. I have been noticing odd things in my dreams more recently, so I am encouraged.
On supplements at the very beginning I had trouble sleeping, but did get lucid more easily. Now, although they definitely give a boost in dream vividness and recall, there's no easy lucidity.
Ido have a good feeling about being close though.

FryingMan - Yes yes and yes! What is catching my wheels here, so to speak, is that there's too much info out there, and only anecdotal data that supports that individual person. Not to mention there's just soooo many combinations to choose from. Anyway I very much appreciate your help though.

Goldenspark - Always an interesting ride no?:}

What's really chaffing MY hide is that NOTHING is showing any results for me (other than the AA blend). What kind of weird broken brain do I have, anyway ? Maybe it's a super strong supplement resistant brain. Or may I already have a PERFECT lucid dreaming brain and no supplement can improve it . Well time will tell. Or maybe I have to bite the bullet and do the nicotine, which I REALLY do not want to do.

^^ OR...

You can come to terms with the notion that there is no magic potion, and, though these mixes might provide a modest assist to a prepared mind, lucidity is ultimately up to you! Perhaps you already have?

^^ Lucidity is not the issue so much (although it's the goal, no doubt), but I'm not seeing ANY changes in dreaming: not longer dreams, not more vivid dreams. Random people who don't lucid dream and don't in general remember their dreams notice huge changes in dream vividness in response to various substances taken for non-dreaming reasons, so why wouldn't a (I'd like to think, somewhat at least) experienced dreamer? I'm looking just for a nudge, not a "give it all to me with no effort" and I"m not apparently even getting the smallest nudge. And I do rather significant day work every single day... trying to figure out why I'm stalled, and looking for the supplements to help kick-start my natural dreaming again.

Oh. Sorry, FryingMan, I should have remembered who I was responding to; that was unfair of me... plus it's a bit tacky to preach anyway, especially given that I've dipped into the aid bucket many times myself! Speaking of that:

I know you're getting tired of hearing anecdotal recommendations, but can I at least note that the dosages listed on these threads are often amazingly low, and that you still have a lot more room for testing? For instance, on the occasions I need a "boost," I usually take 12-16mg of gallantamine, 10 mg of melatonin (the night before!) and at least 200mg of b6, all of which seem a bit higher than what's listed herabouts; maybe you just haven't crossed your body's thresholds yet? It's likely safe to keep trying -- I've never tried nicotine, though, as that seems a bridge to far to me for some reason.

^^ OK, that makes sense. Although, I had a rather unpleasant headache all day after my last galantamine experiment @ 8mg G, and about 600mg all together of various cholines, so I'm not sure if upping from there is within my comfort zone -- don't want to blow any gaskets! So do you/have you use(d) B6 in place of choline together with the G?

I may try a 100mg B6 tonight. I don't know if I'd do 200mg, there's lots of scare stories about high levels of B6 causing irreversible nerve damage so I'm a bit leery of high B6 amounts.

For me the choline comes in the Gallantamind capsule (200 mg), and, as that has worked fine, I've never upped my choline intake.

Regarding B6: I've found that it does little to nothing to aid lucidity, but it works gangbusters for dream recall. I've never taken more than 400mg at once, not due to worries about nerve damage (though I suppose that's a good reason, huh? ), but due to the fact that I am wide awake for the session if I go higher than that, especially if mixed with gallantamine. For what it's worth, though, as far as I know 200mg hasn't done me any harm yet... that is me, of course!

Fryingman - Yep, I can hear your frustration through your words and there's a good chance I'll be following suit!

Sageous - Hmm, so you've had good luck with GMD I take it? I guess I should take it more consistently to see if I need to augment it with AGPC or another type of choline, 5HTP, etc.

I wonder why you didn't try nicotine once at least? N combination with gala/choline is the best inducer I've found so far. I've got gums, pastels, and now I experimenting with electronic cigarette. The more overdose you are with nicotine, the higher lucid dreams you get.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

What's really chaffing MY hide is that NOTHING is showing any results for me (other than the AA blend). What kind of weird broken brain do I have, anyway ?

NOTHING works for you ..?

Have you tried these herbs?

mugwort
yarrow
guayusa
silene capensis
guarana
calea zaccatechichi

I've had good successes with those (especially yarrow), and I'm going to try wormwood soon.

There's a world beyond "supplements" ...

Edit: Actually, I very much sympathize. I also respond poorly, if at all, to many substances that are commonly felt strongly by others. Coffee, for example, is better at putting me to sleep, than keeping me awake ... Also, choline bitartrate has very little impact on me - if any at all.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Regarding B6: I've found that it does little to nothing to aid lucidity, but it works gangbusters for dream recall.

My experience with B6 concurs with yours. On its own B6 has not proven effective at instigating lucidity for me, but in combination with L-tyrosine it has. For memory recall, however, B6 on its own is fantastic. Makes you wonder why B6 is not at the forefront of Alzheimers research ... maybe it's because pharmaceutical corporations can't make any money off B6.

My regular dosis of B6 is 121 mg (never taken on consecutive nights).

Voldmer, didn't know about L-Tyrosine, I think I will try that. About your list, Guarana yea? It contains natural caffeine afaik and is highly energetic I find it impossible to sleep with that.

I'm not sure about all the others but from what I do know. Here's my list of dream herbs that I want to try based on anecdotes.

1. Synaptolepis kirkii = The most powerful dream tonic regarding a psychonautic community. It is also regarded a healing herb.
2. Silene Capensis = In my experience very warm and healing as well. I took powdered form but on the internet it is recommended to take shredded.
3. Mugwort = Good reviews for some.
4. Calea Z = Powerful but not worth the trouble imo. I do it from time to time in high doses it allows me to dream while walking. :/ It also tastes like salted urine.

And last but not least,

5. I don't often see it mentioned on Dreamviews but MAOIs are regarded as dream supplements as well as antidepressants; Passionflower, Banistoriopsis Caapi, Syrian Rue are great tested sources. The natural MAOIs are called Harmalas.

PS: Thanks for reminding me of B6 dosis. I found that I have been using 5-10mg supplements. No wonder it never did anything.

Originally Posted by DeltaDreamer

Fryingman - Yep, I can hear your frustration through your words and there's a good chance I'll be following suit!

Sageous - Hmm, so you've had good luck with GMD I take it? I guess I should take it more consistently to see if I need to augment it with AGPC or another type of choline, 5HTP, etc.

I think perhaps the takeaway lesson here is that supplements experiments should be done when one"s sleep and recall are normal. I like to try them when traveling because I have the most flexibility then, however also the most disrupted sleep/dreaming, perhaps nullifying effects.

Tried the Yuschak AAB last night at bedtime with 100mg B6, was definitely very wakeful through the night, and had the sense of recall as early as 2 hours, but unfortunately no concrete recall at all for the night. Work stress has dialed up recently so dreaming may suffer.

Originally Posted by Voldmer

NOTHING works for you ..?

Have you tried these herbs?

mugwort
yarrow
guayusa
silene capensis
guarana
calea zaccatechichi

I've had good successes with those (especially yarrow), and I'm going to try wormwood soon.

There's a world beyond "supplements" ...

Edit: Actually, I very much sympathize. I also respond poorly, if at all, to many substances that are commonly felt strongly by others. Coffee, for example, is better at putting me to sleep, than keeping me awake ... Also, choline bitartrate has very little impact on me - if any at all.

Well caffeine wires me wide awake since I don't drink coffee or tea much so I have little tolerance, it makes me quite jittery in fact. I've tried peppermint / st johns wort a few times with no effect. No I haven't started in on the herbal list you mention but I have started researching them. I thought the king of LD supps (galantamine) would surely do it for me, but nothing so far. Maybe for me the effect is subtle so must use it when sleep is normal. Or together with rem rebounding amounts of 5htp or melatonin at bedtime

Originally Posted by DeltaDreamer

Fryingman - Yep, I can hear your frustration through your words and there's a good chance I'll be following suit!

Sageous - Hmm, so you've had good luck with GMD I take it? I guess I should take it more consistently to see if I need to augment it with AGPC or another type of choline, 5HTP, etc.

Not trying to be a downer, expectation is important... I just want to find something that works to boost at least vivid dreams

Originally Posted by Voldmer

My experience with B6 concurs with yours. On its own B6 has not proven effective at instigating lucidity for me, but in combination with L-tyrosine it has. For memory recall, however, B6 on its own is fantastic. Makes you wonder why B6 is not at the forefront of Alzheimers research ... maybe it's because pharmaceutical corporations can't make any money off B6.

My regular dosis of B6 is 121 mg (never taken on consecutive nights).

Do you take the B6 at bedtime or wbtb time?

P.s. this is a great discussion! So many more options coming to light. We really do need a well organized supplement exoeriences thread where people can post their experiments and results including dosages, timing, and context (diet, dreaming experience, etc)

Originally Posted by DeltaDreamer

Sageous - Hmm, so you've had good luck with GMD I take it? I guess I should take it more consistently to see if I need to augment it with AGPC or another type of choline, 5HTP, etc.

Yes, I suppose I have, to the point that GMD became an easy crutch on days when I can't concentrate, or just don't feel like doing so... days which seem to come more often as I age. I've been using it for years now, though never more than once in a week, and its only side-effect to date are NLD's that are so interesting that I don't remember to become lucid in them.

I tried 5htp recently, but only a couple of times to no effect.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

I thought the king of LD supps (galantamine) would surely do it for me, but nothing so far.

Maybe galantamine is the "king of LD supps" not because it works the best, but because it's the most hyped ...

I have never tried it (here in Europe galantamine is reserved for Alzheimers patients), but Huperzine A (which supposedly has similar function) I have tried - with some notable, but not exactly earth-shattering, success.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Do you take the B6 at bedtime or wbtb time?

Tried both, and it works best for me at WBTB-time.

Generally speaking, I need something powerful to knock me out, so that I can sleep well for the first 5 hours, and then I can attempt an WBTB-effort with the works (and the "the works" mostly includes something to knock me out again, because B6, L-tyrosine & Co. have quite the stimulating effect ...)

Ï did the Galantamine reserved for Älzheimers patients combined with simple choline. Nihil effect. These are of the synthetic kind though. Supposedly the natural kind used in Galantamind is more effective. So who knows.

Anyway. I'll be trying 200mg of B6 + Casein proteins + 0.7g kirkii and some Carbs before sleep so... Haha. See you in dream land, I suppose?

Don't worry, my head feels heavy I think I can manage to fall asleep tonight.

Edit: Oh yeha, I googl'd Tonic .. So if anyone was confused. I thought Tonic meant : Substance you need to use for longer periods of time for the best and potentially longer lasting results !

Eat a shit load of blueberrys it's acts similarly to galantamine and fish oils (tuna etc) they should help with recall and vividness tho I can't support that it make s intuative sense just look up what they do for ur brain and in general look up nootropic foods and remidies and add them to ur diet valerian root extract another good one try drinking neuro sleep drink it has a lot of of goodies in it just keep adding things that help your brain function better hope this helped

You know, every summer I do eat a ton of fresh-from-the-forest blueberries (which are abundant where I live), and that may have been why my dreaming took off right away when I started LD practice towards the end of August. And I let up on them as winter hit, and my dreaming got a bit worse then.....hmmmm....

I'm on a real brain-and-memory-health kick now, so yeah lots of omega oils, nuts, berries, avacado, bananas, turkey, lecithin (lots of choline!), flax seeds, etc. I thought valerian was a natural sedative though, suppressing REM & dreams. Does it produce REM rebound I wonder?

They say people who eat a lot of blueberrys have a much lower rate of getting Alzheimer's than people that don't as much and galantamine was mad to treat Alzheimer's so that were I made the connection and a lot of new study are coming out saying to eat thome a lot they call em brainberrys.... But who knows maybe it's all lie s they just trying to up sell blueberrys