Thread: Menthol as a Dream Enhancer

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

What really interests me is the direct agonist effect.... That alone could make it have hallucinations, though I would expect it to from the kappa-opioid agonism by the time it was a high enough dose for that. Makes me wonder what the effects would be like from a strong trip, though.... But anyway, here's what comes to mind. GABA has been reported by people to induce vivid and lucid dreams, which is interesting considering the effects that drugs like benzos have on dreams, but it could just be that they effect memory and REM-related functions too specifically. It's easy to see with them at lower doses, and drugs like alcohol, that GABA can positively effect dreams, so maybe a direct agonist like GABA itself can more easily get these effects. The other big thing is muscimol, the main desired active chemical in Amanita muscaria and Amanita pantherina mushrooms. Just like how salvia is unique in that it's really the only commonly used hallucinogen that binds to the kappa-opioid receptors for a significant effect, the amanita mushrooms are basically in the same situation but for GABA(A) receptors. Muscimol binds directly to GABA(A) and has powerful hallucinogenic effects at high doses. One thing it's also pretty well-known for is inducing bizarre dreams. There are actually many users of it who claim that it's one of its most desirable effects, saying that the way it works is that first you can take them and then sleep into a deep sleep of powerful or meaningful but very psychedelic dreams that are usually extremely vivid and often lucid, and then if you took enough you'll trip later when you wake up. But the dream effects can be gotten even at a lower dose, and I know people have used teas to that end before. I can't help but wonder if higher doses of menthol may be drawing from these kinds of effects as well....

There are so many new things to consider now!!

Sensational!! Amazing find there, Aly! Straight up, I didn't even know that menthol has GABAergic properties of any kind, much less that it is an agonist at GABAAR. I wonder what the relative strength is of these GABAergic effects versus things that we already know (such as kappa-opioid activation.) Do you have a sense of how to assess that? I'm out of my depth there at this point. Got more learning to do.

Amazing to have a whole new moving part to this equation. I guess this is the direction you were heading yesterday when you asked about TRPM8 yesterday and I helpfully responded "Uh durrrrr..." LOL.

Really, really cool find for us menth-heads.

Menthol and related compounds were investigated for modulation of recombinant human gamma-aminobutyric acid type A (GABA(A), alpha(1)beta(2)gamma(2s)) receptor currents expressed in Xenopus oocytes.

Anyone else read that as "Xanous" at first? Okay, just me then.

Dose: 1mg Melatonin,3g Fish Oil, 200MG 5-HTP prebed. 2 tablespoons peppermint leaves + Galantamine stack wbtb.
Side Effects: mild stomach pain, sexual dreams
Sleep Duration: 4hrs/ 4hrs after
WBTB: Yes 30min
Lucid: YES (multiple shorts)
Vividness: Varied
Stability: Varied
Comments: My menthol intake was a bit lower than usual. I wanted to avoid wakefulness with G since I excluded Valerian Root this time. Had multiple LDs probably due to G. Sexual themes arose. First lucids where highly unstable. Later LDs got better but brief. A couple of WILDs came straight form HH and I attribute that to menthol. It seems that Menthol could aid WILD attempts especially if coupled with another mental stimulant like Caffeine, G, or possibly B6. Full report in DJ link below.

Blindness, Sensations and Shorts - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Sensational!! Amazing find there, Aly! Straight up, I didn't even know that menthol has GABAergic properties of any kind, much less that it is an agonist at GABAAR. I wonder what the relative strength is of these GABAergic effects versus things that we already know (such as kappa-opioid activation.) Do you have a sense of how to assess that? I'm out of my depth there at this point. Got more learning to do.

I had no idea either! I've seen its other known receptor properties in multiple places, but this is news to me. It seems to be relatively unknown. I really don't know how to compare it to the other effects either, but I'm guessing that the kappa-opioid effects are stronger than the GABA(A) effects since menthol is known to produce analgesia at doses that really don't provide any sedation. That's just based on experience though and reports though. It's hard to actually say at this point.

Oh, I've been meaning to ask, do you feel any analgesic effects from menthol? I can feel some of the opioid relaxation myself but I also know that female sex hormones cause kappa-opioid receptors to link up with mu-opioid receptors in the spinal cord and as a result women get much more analgesia from kappa agonists than men do on average, so I'm just curious how much of an effect it has for you.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Amazing to have a whole new moving part to this equation. I guess this is the direction you were heading yesterday when you asked about TRPM8 yesterday and I helpfully responded "Uh durrrrr..." LOL.

Really, really cool find for us menth-heads.

Hahaha, yeah, that eventually got me there. I actually found some interesting things about TPRM8 too, there was a thing about how it gets deactivated by arachidonic acid formed from phospholipase A2 activation my M3 muscarinic receptors. I'm not sure about from phospholipase C... but it's an interesting thought because it means that the more acetylcholine there is active at the same time as menthol the less TPRM8 activation there will be. I'm not totally sure what that receptor does there in the first place, but it definitely makes me wonder more about the effects of combining menthol and choline!

And I'm glad you like it, I was excited.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Anyone else read that as "Xanous" at first? Okay, just me then.

I've been reading about Xenopus oocytes for a long time now, so I'm afraid you might be alone in that one.

Originally Posted by Xanous

Dose: 1mg Melatonin,3g Fish Oil, 200MG 5-HTP prebed. 2 tablespoons peppermint leaves + Galantamine stack wbtb.
Side Effects: mild stomach pain, sexual dreams
Sleep Duration: 4hrs/ 4hrs after
WBTB: Yes 30min
Lucid: YES (multiple shorts)
Vividness: Varied
Stability: Varied
Comments: My menthol intake was a bit lower than usual. I wanted to avoid wakefulness with G since I excluded Valerian Root this time. Had multiple LDs probably due to G. Sexual themes arose. First lucids where highly unstable. Later LDs got better but brief. A couple of WILDs came straight form HH and I attribute that to menthol. It seems that Menthol could aid WILD attempts especially if coupled with another mental stimulant like Caffeine, G, or possibly B6. Full report in DJ link below.

Blindness, Sensations and Shorts - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Nice! Hey just out of curiosity, how much of an effect do you notice from the fish oil? I've been really interested lately in how it effects anandamide's activity on the endovanilloid system!

About the WILDing, I've actually had two WILDs ever and each were by accident, and the second one (I believe...) was after a night of taking menthol. Highlander reports lots of good hypnagogic stuff with it too. Given its receptor affinities, particularly these new ones, it probably does just make it easier to reach that state.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

I had no idea either! I've seen its other known receptor properties in multiple places, but this is news to me. It seems to be relatively unknown. I really don't know how to compare it to the other effects either, but I'm guessing that the kappa-opioid effects are stronger than the GABA(A) effects since menthol is known to produce analgesia at doses that really don't provide any sedation. That's just based on experience though and reports though. It's hard to actually say at this point.

Oh, I've been meaning to ask, do you feel any analgesic effects from menthol? I can feel some of the opioid relaxation myself but I also know that female sex hormones cause kappa-opioid receptors to link up with mu-opioid receptors in the spinal cord and as a result women get much more analgesia from kappa agonists than men do on average, so I'm just curious how much of an effect it has for you.



Hahaha, yeah, that eventually got me there. I actually found some interesting things about TPRM8 too, there was a thing about how it gets deactivated by arachidonic acid formed from phospholipase A2 activation my M3 muscarinic receptors. I'm not sure about from phospholipase C... but it's an interesting thought because it means that the more acetylcholine there is active at the same time as menthol the less TPRM8 activation there will be. I'm not totally sure what that receptor does there in the first place, but it definitely makes me wonder more about the effects of combining menthol and choline!

And I'm glad you like it, I was excited.



I've been reading about Xenopus oocytes for a long time now, so I'm afraid you might be alone in that one.



Nice! Hey just out of curiosity, how much of an effect do you notice from the fish oil? I've been really interested lately in how it effects anandamide's activity on the endovanilloid system!

About the WILDing, I've actually had two WILDs ever and each were by accident, and the second one (I believe...) was after a night of taking menthol. Highlander reports lots of good hypnagogic stuff with it too. Given its receptor affinities, particularly these new ones, it probably does just make it easier to reach that state.

I read it as xanous at first And I havent noticed much analgesic effects but I never thought about it either. I havent noticed my usual back pain after menthol so maybe. Usually it just feels like a mild stimulant.

The fish oil usually helps recall and improve chances of DILD. But the effect goes away after several consecutive nights but seems to return after a period of abstinence. I think most aids work that way IMO.

Interesting thoughts on the WILDs. There definitely seems to be something to it. Ill probably always shoot for WILD with menthol for now on.

I still wonder the time to peek plasma and half life elimination so I can time my attempts better.

Originally Posted by Xanous

I read it as xanous at first And I havent noticed much analgesic effects but I never thought about it either. I havent noticed my usual back pain after menthol so maybe. Usually it just feels like a mild stimulant.

The fish oil usually helps recall and improve chances of DILD. But the effect goes away after several consecutive nights but seems to return after a period of abstinence. I think most aids work that way IMO.

Interesting thoughts on the WILDs. There definitely seems to be something to it. Ill probably always shoot for WILD with menthol for now on.

Ah, cool. It does feel like a stimulant to me too as far as the mindset is concerned, but I do feel the physical opioid effects a bit. If it is helping you I'm guessing back pain relief would be a likely effect, last night I could feel it pretty nicely everywhere but especially in my spine and legs.

Yeah, I would expect it to build tolerance with this.... Thanks for the info! What really interests me is that two of the three big omega-3 fatty acids in fish oil block the TRPV1 receptor (the other activates it, but seems to be balanced out by this), which is the vanilloid 1 receptor. This is also the receptor that's activated by capsaicin, the chemical that makes spicy foods spicy. What's significant is that activation of TRPV1 causes long-term depression in the dentate gyrus of the hippocampus, which is thought to be involved in new memory formation, and that causes a disruption of that process. Given that, it makes perfect sense that something that blocks those receptors would make memory formation easier, among other functions. The thing is that anandamide itself, the endocannabinoid we're aiming to increase to enhance REM (and is increased by all cholinergic supplements), also binds to TRPV1. So I was thinking that it would probably be even more logical to add fish oil to any stack including menthol or something cholinergic to overcome that. I'm glad to hear that it does something for you!

And I look forward to hearing about any more WILD attempts you have with it!

Originally Posted by Xanous

I still wonder the time to peek plasma and half life elimination so I can time my attempts better.

http://www.bvsde.paho.org/bvsacd/cd53/ahijevych.pdf

Average peak plasma menthol glucuronide concentrations were 16.73¡5.53 mmol/l after 100mg menthol capsule and 2.36¡0.74 mmol/l after a lozenge or tea. Peak times ranged from 30 to 120 minutes after a menthol capsule and 20 to 60 minutes after a lozenge or tea.

Disposition kinetics and effects of ment... [Clin Pharmacol Ther. 1999] - PubMed - NCBI

Menthol was rapidly metabolized, and only menthol glucuronide could be measured in plasma or urine. The plasma half-life of menthol glucuronide averaged 56.2 minutes (95% confidence interval [CI], 51.0 to 61.5) and 42.6 minutes (95% CI, 32.5 to 52.7) in menthol capsule and mint candy/mint tea conditions, respectively (P < .05).

Does this help?

Does this help?

Yes very much! Thank you. You're full of great info as always.

I'll have to compare that to my dose/wake times in my records when I get home to see what the most consistent timing would be.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

I had no idea either! I've seen its other known receptor properties in multiple places, but this is news to me. It seems to be relatively unknown. I really don't know how to compare it to the other effects either, but I'm guessing that the kappa-opioid effects are stronger than the GABA(A) effects since menthol is known to produce analgesia at doses that really don't provide any sedation. That's just based on experience though and reports though. It's hard to actually say at this point.

You're right, that's a very sensible way to look at it. I've never found any amount of menthol I've taken to chill me out or space me out in any way.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Oh, I've been meaning to ask, do you feel any analgesic effects from menthol? I can feel some of the opioid relaxation myself but I also know that female sex hormones cause kappa-opioid receptors to link up with mu-opioid receptors in the spinal cord and as a result women get much more analgesia from kappa agonists than men do on average, so I'm just curious how much of an effect it has for you.

As for analgesic properties, it does seem to provide actual cough relief (however temporarily.) My understanding of how it pulled this off was by making an irritated throat a bit less sensitive and prone to activating the cough reflex. In that sense, I've experience an analgesic effect.

But that's mostly a topical effect (I assume.) Were you thinking more a general analgesic? I don't know on that one! I should perform some kind of experiment where I try stabbing myself in the thigh with a fork both before and after sucking down 6 cough drops.

I didn't know that women had linkage between kappa-opioid receptors and the mu-opioid receptors! Does this mean that dynorphins wind up acting kinda like endorphins for women? Lucky!

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Hahaha, yeah, that eventually got me there. I actually found some interesting things about TPRM8 too, there was a thing about how it gets deactivated by arachidonic acid formed from phospholipase A2 activation my M3 muscarinic receptors. I'm not sure about from phospholipase C... but it's an interesting thought because it means that the more acetylcholine there is active at the same time as menthol the less TPRM8 activation there will be. I'm not totally sure what that receptor does there in the first place, but it definitely makes me wonder more about the effects of combining menthol and choline!

That is interesting. I will definitely be doing more fiddling with menthol + choline combinations over the coming weeks/months. I was certainly pleased with how menthol went with the classic galantamine + choline stack, and Xanous turned in awesome results with such a combo just this morning. No narrative yet on "what it all means", but good data so far.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Nice! Hey just out of curiosity, how much of an effect do you notice from the fish oil? I've been really interested lately in how it effects anandamide's activity on the endovanilloid system!
...
The thing is that anandamide itself, the endocannabinoid we're aiming to increase to enhance REM (and is increased by all cholinergic supplements), also binds to TRPV1

Ah, fish oil! I take a pretty good amount of fish oil (6g per day, at times as much as 9g.) I've often wondered what the overall effect is. Lately I've been tilting my fish oil intake toward the morning or mid-day simply because I had no idea if it affected anything sleep- or dream-wise. But wow, this info about TRPV1 and the relation to the dentate gyrus is making me want to take it pre-bed! And at WBTB! And at pretty much every time of the day.

Is throwing in fish oil at WBTB completely insane? I guess I could just go ahead and do it and see what happens. I'm taking a lot anyway, so it's just a reshuffling of my daily 6g or whatever.

You really know a lot of stuff. I am most impressed.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

As for analgesic properties, it does seem to provide actual cough relief (however temporarily.) My understanding of how it pulled this off was by making an irritated throat a bit less sensitive and prone to activating the cough reflex. In that sense, I've experience an analgesic effect.

But that's mostly a topical effect (I assume.) Were you thinking more a general analgesic? I don't know on that one! I should perform some kind of experiment where I try stabbing myself in the thigh with a fork both before and after sucking down 6 cough drops.

I didn't know that women had linkage between kappa-opioid receptors and the mu-opioid receptors! Does this mean that dynorphins wind up acting kinda like endorphins for women? Lucky!

Ah, well at least it's intended effect is working. Yeah, I think that's a reaction to the cold receptors, I'm not totally sure how it works....

I don't know if you would get quite that much analgesia from menthol lol. But if you give it a shot then make sure to report back for us. I honestly don't know though, I haven't taken that large of a dose before. But yeah, I was talking more general. Like a prescription pain killer type of analgesia. For me it bears some resemblance to a low dose of hydrocodone.

Well dynorphins are interesting because in too large amounts they actually stimulate pain but are pain killing for both men and women in lower doses. However, they are much more endorphin-like for women, yeah. It seems to be due to a kind of positive allosteric modulation. Kappa-opioid activity enhances mu-opioid activity only in women so high dynorphin or other agonist activation enhances endorphin/exogenous agonist signalling. However, it also means that low kappa activity decreases mu activity. I'm not really sure when that's an issue though, except maybe when involving drug use. Kappa-opioid receptors have their own form of analgesia too which is why they have some of that activity in both sexes, but they only regulate mu activity as well in women. The best part? THC causes a lot of its analgesia through spinal dynorphin release.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Ah, fish oil! I take a pretty good amount of fish oil (6g per day, at times as much as 9g.) I've often wondered what the overall effect is. Lately I've been tilting my fish oil intake toward the morning or mid-day simply because I had no idea if it affected anything sleep- or dream-wise. But wow, this info about TRPV1 and the relation to the dentate gyrus is making me want to take it pre-bed! And at WBTB! And at pretty much every time of the day.

Is throwing in fish oil at WBTB completely insane? I guess I could just go ahead and do it and see what happens. I'm taking a lot anyway, so it's just a reshuffling of my daily 6g or whatever.

You really know a lot of stuff. I am most impressed.

Wow, that is a lot! I take 1.4 grams every morning, but that's it. I don't see any reason why you couldn't use it at WBTB, it probably works the best if you take it right when you need it. You might want to focus a lot of it for that dose though, since you probably have a good tolerance to it if you take that much every day!

And thanks. I just have too much free time to spend researching things!

So cool! I love all of that info about dynorphin responses in women. You must keep a really good set of notes somewhere, right? Or at least I hope you do. You've got so much great info at hand.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Wow, that is a lot! I take 1.4 grams every morning, but that's it. I don't see any reason why you couldn't use it at WBTB, it probably works the best if you take it right when you need it. You might want to focus a lot of it for that dose though, since you probably have a good tolerance to it if you take that much every day!

Good thinking, I will! Maybe 2g before bed and 4g during WBTB.

You're right, 6g fish oil dose is higher than what you would typically see. I just love this stuff for so many reasons, though. One concrete rationale for that 6g dose in particular is this study, which found a measurable anabolic response in subjects given 4g daily of Lovaza: Omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids augment ... [Clin Sci (Lond). 2011] - PubMed - NCBI. Pretty striking result!

Anyway, Lovaza is a super-pure, prescription-only form of fish oil, so to match the DHA and EPA in that one, I've gotta eat 6 of my over-the-counter fish oil caps. I find that strength, agility, and mobility correlate well with a higher quality of life, so to this is yet another reason that I can't stop loving fish oil.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

So cool! I love all of that info about dynorphin responses in women. You must keep a really good set of notes somewhere, right? Or at least I hope you do. You've got so much great info at hand.

Ehehe...heh.... Actually, despite not infrequent requests to do so, I've never really taken notes on any of my research or written any of this down anywhere aside from posts I make here and the occasional chart I'll draw while explaining something to someone, which gets discarded immediately afterward. Pretty much everything is done and kept up here. *taps skull*

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Good thinking, I will! Maybe 2g before bed and 4g during WBTB.

You're right, 6g fish oil dose is higher than what you would typically see. I just love this stuff for so many reasons, though. One concrete rationale for that 6g dose in particular is this study, which found a measurable anabolic response in subjects given 4g daily of Lovaza: Omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids augment ... [Clin Sci (Lond). 2011] - PubMed - NCBI. Pretty striking result!

Anyway, Lovaza is a super-pure, prescription-only form of fish oil, so to match the DHA and EPA in that one, I've gotta eat 6 of my over-the-counter fish oil caps. I find that strength, agility, and mobility correlate well with a higher quality of life, so to this is yet another reason that I can't stop loving fish oil.

Ah, I see! That's actually pretty cool. I may have to look into increasing my own dosage then! It is one of the only supplements I've been taking for a very long time without any signs of stopping, it's a nice one.

It was a menthol, DMAE, and fish oil lucid dream for me last night!

Dose: Pre-bed: 2g fish oil WBTB: 34.8mg menthol (6 cough drops), 250mg DMAE, 4g fish oil
Side Effects: Very mild insomnia
Sleep Duration: 7 hours
WBTB: Yes (40 minutes)
Lucid: Yes!
Vividness: High
Stability: Moderate
Dream Comments: Comical and fun mood for this lucid. Mostly relaxed and happy. A few fleeting sexy thoughts, but nothing major.

The lucid dream:
The DreamViews Drive - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Yay menthol! 6 cough drops are a little rough to face at WBTB, but so worth it. So far, cramming all my fish oil in toward sleep time seems to be working out okay without any major problems.

I now have no choice but to study DMAE some more. I've had a good number of lucids stacking it with menthol and I am not convinced by the mainstream explanation of how it helps with dreaming (conversion into choline and/or acetylcholine.)

Something else worth noting about this LD: this was a WILD, when WILDs are somewhat unusual for me unless I have taken galantamine. They do happen, but DILDs are just a lot more common. I hadn't meant to pursue a WILD here, but conditions sort of emerged for one on their own. I'll make note of this and see whether it repeats with this stack or any similar stack.

Mood was also really good. I was pretty confident and easygoing during the dream, which is not only handy but makes the experience fun. No idea if it's related to the stack, but again, a positive thing to note.

I don't have time for a proper post but last night was menthol night. I got pretty much nothing. This time when I boiled the leaves I left the lid off. There was no menthol cool taste whatsoever. Is it possible that I boiled the menthol out? Maybe I'm better off steeping with that metal contraption I got.

Originally Posted by Xanous

I don't have time for a proper post but last night was menthol night. I got pretty much nothing. This time when I boiled the leaves I left the lid off. There was no menthol cool taste whatsoever. Is it possible that I boiled the menthol out? Maybe I'm better off steeping with that metal contraption I got.

Hey man! I should probably post up what I said in PM, so that it can be picked apart publicly.

"Gee! I don't know how much could boil off. Let me see. Okay, Google says that menthol's boiling point is 413.6 degrees fahrenheit. So it seems pretty unlikely that you'd actually get to the point where you had menthol vapor unless your water was just going nuts. (Water boils at 212, and if you make tea the way that I do, the water boils just briefly then the tea is steeped at a lower temperature.)

You could always lose some to evaporation. It doesn't seem like this would be very much, though, yeah? Interesting that the taste was gone. That is kind of odd."

I really am intrigued that the taste was so distinctly gone when you did this. I'm not much of a tea maker so perhaps this is some kind of huge no-no.

Even though the cough drops are a bit much to suck down, one thing that I do love about them is the precision. (And the fact that they're so cheap and so easy.) The tea sure does taste better, though!

I can't really give any explanation in relation to the boiling point, but I can say that if the taste was gone that's probably a very bad sign. Those cold receptors are what menthol activates most strongly. If you don't get the cold sensation you're probably not going to get much of anything else, either.

Interesting. Well I do boil it for several minutes and I always notice that if I put my face over the steam that there is a strong menthol smell and it burns my eyes. I dont know. Maybe the temp is gettig too high since I boiled it longer. Ill have to adjust how I do things from now on.

Here we go! I found an explanation of how at high enough temperatures, you could boil away your menthol along with steam, without reaching menthol's boiling point:

How menthol can boil away

It's a link to an excerpt from a book all bout mint. Explains it very well, though!

The summary is that 99.6 C (about 211 F) is the temperature at which you could boil away some menthol. That is right around (slightly below) the temperature at which your water will be boiling. So just taking your water below the boiling point should be enough to avoid most of this.

Could you try preparing your tea at a lower temperature? If you boil water, then let its temperature descend and make the tea in that, the effect should be lessened. Less temperature would mean less menthol boiling away. And, like you said, covering is good too!

Nice find, Canis! I never would have thought of that! :O

OMG nice info! Thanks man. That sure explains a lot. So boiling is out and Ill probably check the temp before I steep.

Yep, I have try again tonight. Ill post how it goes.

I guess I just started boiling like that because that seems best for mugwort Though I may reconsider that as well.

Yup mint is meant to be steeped, generally it's better to use 70C-90C (Try experimenting) water when using fresh plants, not for all but for most. Secondly boiling it can destroy some compounds like vitamin c which is in high amounts in mint I believe.

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

Yup mint is meant to be steeped, generally it's better to use 70C-90C (Try experimenting) water when using fresh plants, not for all but for most. Secondly boiling it can destroy some compounds like vitamin c which is in high amounts in mint I believe.

Do you think the same rule applies to mugwort? Seeing how some people smoke it I thought it wouldn't matter but I suppose evaporation would be a vastly different thing.

Originally Posted by Xanous

Do you think the same rule applies to mugwort? Seeing how some people smoke it I thought it wouldn't matter but I suppose evaporation would be a vastly different thing.

I'd guess so, obviously smoking it would probably have a far stronger effect than ingesting it. I don't have much knowledge on the subject and it's hard to judge since each plant is different. I do think though that the possibilty is there to remove some chemicals which might have aided the effect if you poor pure boiling water onto it.
For instance when you boil a nettle the stingers whittle and lose their poison making them edible and less irratible, this generally happens around 100 c.

Another good tip is to poor the water slowly, I have no idea why but I've read it a few times.

If you are using fresh plants try to collect them right after morning as the water evaporates from their leaves, at this time they will release their oil the easiest, and sometimes drying them can aid the process of releasing the oil too.

i'm going to try 14mg of it tonight. Cheap Cough drops. -_- 7mg per drop. from the previous great results i've heard of, with as low as 15.6mg and such, i think i'll try higher doses later. But for now, im going to try 14mg.
Sweet Dreams
- Tradl3s

Originally Posted by Tradl3s

i'm going to try 14mg of it tonight. Cheap Cough drops. -_- 7mg per drop. from the previous great results i've heard of, with as low as 15.6mg and such, i think i'll try higher doses later. But for now, im going to try 14mg.
Sweet Dreams
- Tradl3s

Who knows? maybe HALLS will be better or something. i'll have to steal some From my grandma (Just kidding.)

Dose: Pre-bed: 3g fish oil, 5mg melatonin WBTB: 18.2mg menthol (2 cough drops), 5 tablespoons peppermint leaves STEEPED, 3g fish oil, 250Mg Choline.
Side Effects: Felt wide awake for 10min or so then very exhausted.
Sleep Duration: 7 hours 40min
WBTB: Yes (20 minutes)
Lucid: No!
Vividness:
Stability:
Dream Comments: I worked the MILD tech with mantras pretty thoroughly but didn't have any luck. I feel like I slept too deeply. I recalled only a dim fragment but lost it because I failed to record it. Ive been very tired this week and haven't had much luck getting lucid. Of course, menthol is a great supporting supplement and not a trigger on its own... which is the point of the thread. Im not sure why I didn't get any dream enhancement this time. Maybe I was just too tired to recall it.

BTW the tea was much better this time. Thanks for tips.